Preventing a dude from using it isn't technially power null, especially if even himself cannot do it.
Show me a feat of that emphatic hax actually affecting someone enough to hinder their combat and I'll consider it.
the ability to interact with sans is being nullified, but thats not really 'POWER nullification', since no powers are being nullified beyond ones frisk would get from being able to interact with sans, so i'd say combat applicable 4th wall break sounds more in line with how his special attack functions in universe.
I feel like putting minor infront of it due to frisk not being affected by it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. he is by all definition doing full Empathic Manipulation, the issue isn't the power itself, but the person he was using it against.
I feel like under his danmaku is fine since they are apart of his patterns, while it isn't actually danmaku, i think it makes the post sense to put the platforms in with his other magic related abilities since thats where he uses the platforms.
It has 0 feats of affecting someone enough to hinder their fighting capabilities, so we just assume it cannot.
It doesn't need to hinder people's fighting capabilities to be full Empathic Manipulation. that isn't said at all on the empathic manipulation page. he's still influencing frisk's emotions, it's just that frisk lowkey doesn't gaf.
My issue is that I wanna prevent cases of people saying "Sans passively makes people feel bad so he handicaps them" when that's just untrue (as I know that Shion's goal is exactly that).
fair nough. i'd probably just reword the reasoning to mention depending on the opponent's personality, it can do absolutely nothing, and note frisk and flowey as an example of that.
"Though it should be worth noting that this does not affect those who are purely evil, such as Flowey and the player on the genocide route."
which is funny to think about because he only fights pure-evil people, so this ability literally can never be in use unless you bloodlust him against someone who'd feel guilty about sins they've committed.
- Minor Empathic Manipulation (When against Sans, the opponents will likely feel guilt as if their sins were crawling and weighting on their backs,[1] although the effects on the likes of Frisk or Flowey were minimal due to their personality)
I'd like to point out that if the opponent is a good guy who just crossed paths with Sans (ex. this gentleman), what would the Emphatic stuff do?
It prevents Frisk from checking his stats. Enough to grant power null via that alone. It’s of course via 4th Wall Breaking.
We have a statement and I explained anti-feat. No need for that.
I suppose minor is okay, with a note to stupid proof (I love stupid proofing profiles!!!!) the profile saying something like this;
I support this. We've gotten to talking about updating every other profile, numerous standards and interpretations for UT's fourth wall breaking, and various other topics that really don't belong here. I think we should just focus this thread's discussions on the main post proposed as well as Strym's alternative rework.
More something like "Note: Due to the fact that in-universe the only characters that Sans fought are evil (those being Flowey and Frisk in the Genocide Route), it's unknown how it would affect other characters in vs threads, and as such it shouldn't be assumed that it has any relevant effect that would result in them being crippled or similar."
Why you keep trying to run? Didn't you say that this Friday you'll give a response? There's no rush here.
yes, sounds a lot better.
Shion, we are literally debating stuff that yourself have added, it's bound to cause arguments and discussions, please.
Bro thinks he's a villain
I want every concern I have with Sans to be addressed right here in this thread, as I think he's being absurdly wanked rn, that's all.Bro thinks he's a villain
I know. I just thought the phrasing of "why you keep trying to run" was funny.
What am I supposed to do if you’re not giving the proper refutation? Like showing that Empathic Hax does not working on someone who has different motivation? Or explaining how disabling Information Analysis, ability to eat, spare or attack is not ******* powernull?
Ok so in all fairness, the Power null page does specify the ability needs to be nullifying powers, which by definition sans didn't do that, since all he's doing is using turn based combat to not allow frisk to have the chance to use those things, rather than actually nullifying those abilities. Frisk still has those abilities, they just can't use them due to it not being their turn.
being unable to use your powers and your powers being nullified are VERY different things.
I guess it'd be like the difference between taking away your enemy's fire-shooting gem and nullifying the gem's ability to shoot fire at all?
The fire-shooting gem in this case is the literal manifestation of the capacity to attack?
I mean, Frisk would still be capable of using the Yellow SOUL bullets if their SOUL was yellow, so it's more like nullifying/taking away the ability to attack with their weapons
Yellow Mode in UT is sorta just Frisk's Phone becoming a gun. The special attack stops them from attacking with the empty gun, so don't think it'd really work either.
Yeah because if frisk tries to move, sans teleports them back.
yeah i guess so.
I'd still call it Combat Applicable 4th wall break tbh, merely being teleported isn't preventing you from using items and such.
And who decided that?
"We can't attack sans because he's teleporting us away from the battle UI"? That's sorta just a roundabout way of picking the second option, cause the battle UI doesn't exist in-universe? So like, how would that even work in Versus Threads?
This is a strawman of what I'm arguing.
