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Goku Vs. Dialga

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"Or maybe Demigra's KI has the actual capability / feat of traversing the entire Multiverse to destroy it? Why him doing it through sheer force should automatically have the range slapped on to stronger people because of that makes no sense."

Stop treating Demigra's Ki as if it's different than any other Ki. That's the problem with your argument; you're treating as if Demigra's ki is special. It isn't. Demigra performed the feat with Ki; characters with more ki should be able to do the same. They use the same energy and same methods of attack; they should be able to do the same feats.

If I give a friend a 50 Cal. Sniper, its AP, DC and Range isn't magically going to disappear.

"As for the U.I. example, okay tell me this. What if that said opponent literally just beats down goku in a direct combat fight or just overpowers him with blasts? That doesnt mean that character suddenly gets the feat of destroying stuff on a range superior to Goku, it just means his power is greater than Gokus."

It does. High 3-A Goku's feat comes from letting his power just shake everything. A stronger character, if they release more amounts of ki, should be able to perform the same thing in spades. I don't know why you're so insistent that more power never means more range. If Goku created shockwaves that travelled millions of lightyears by just punching hard enough, are you going to say someone that roflstomped Goku wouldn't be capable of the same thing now?

"Because thats what Attack Potency in general is? AP is the method of unleashing energy and attacks that don't cause destructive damage on the level of it's output like DC does. AP is DC but without the range of it's output, like a planet level attack not leving a planet. Thats AP. "

Not... really relevant to my point? Demigra's feat is done via Ki. It has Multiverse Range feats as well as a 2-B DC Feat.

Demigra's Ki = 2-B DC and Range

Anyone with > Demigra's Ki = Higher than Demigra's 2-B DC and Range

"The point of AP in the first place is if a character becomes > another character, they scale despite not having the range to destroy equal to what their level is. Like if I have the range to destroy an entire universe in a single attack, and some random dude comes and beats me in combat or overpowers me with stronger energy, that only means the latter is stronger than me and scales above my power. They have no feats of being able to actually release that amount of energy over the same or greater distance that I can."

Basically irrelevant? If that character has a higher degree of energy control than you along with more energy in general, then yes. They should be able to completely replicate your feat to an even higher degree.

Your arguments hinges on the fact that the person who performed the original feat had a special method or way or performing that feat which is just wrong. If the feat is done via sheer force, anyone stronger logically should be able to repeat it easily.

If someone has enough power to create a small gust of wind when they punch, a stronger person with more force and speed should be able to create a stronger gust of wind.
 
@Shake. So long as Kep's okay with it.

@People. If Goku loses the one shot worthy AP advantage and he gets stomped into the ground. Even if Goku has AP on his side, if he can't one shot, he's dead.
 
It depends on how far Dialga is.

If Dialga is all of Time in a similar vein to Demigra (Threatening/Is Multiversal on a Multiverse Theory Capacity), he still gets 1-shot and turned into fodder.

Super Saiyan 1 Xeno Goku defeated the Demigra that threatened the Multiverse.

Super Saiyan 2 stomps Super Saiyan 1, Super Saiyan 3 stomps Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 4 stomps Super Saiyan 3.

I'd say Goku can still absolutely 1-shot.

Especially since the gap between Super Saiyan 2 and 1 alone is "I can literally 1-shot you" (Ex. Cell Jr.'s and SSJ2 Gohan)
 
The above is Dialga's heartbeat. No exaggeration. And the above is still in tandem with the Cable interpretation.
 
Parallel poke 2
Parallel poke 3
Parallel poke 4
If you're gonna ask why am I just finding this out, this episode's like two weeks old and I don't follow the anime. I only found out about this because people are saying that Dia (the guy who's explaining) is a AU version of Red.

So much for Goku's AP advantage.

Dialga smacks FRA.
 
@Cal I actually watched that episode, too...I'm more up to date with Pokémon, though I've only completely watched the B/W series and the XYZ series.

That scene right there doesn't necessarily say it's an infinite amount, though, but it does bring into question whether or not Dialga really has the AP disadvantage here.
 
Akreious said:
"As for the U.I. example, okay tell me this. What if that said opponent literally just beats down goku in a direct combat fight or just overpowers him with blasts? That doesnt mean that character suddenly gets the feat of destroying stuff on a range superior to Goku, it just means his power is greater than Gokus."

It does. High 3-A Goku's feat comes from letting his power just shake everything. A stronger character, if they release more amounts of ki, should be able to perform the same thing in spades. I don't know why you're so insistent that more power never means more range. If Goku created shockwaves that travelled millions of lightyears by just punching hard enough, are you going to say someone that roflstomped Goku wouldn't be capable of the same thing now?

"Because thats what Attack Potency in general is? AP is the method of unleashing energy and attacks that don't cause destructive damage on the level of it's output like DC does. AP is DC but without the range of it's output, like a planet level attack not leving a planet. Thats AP. "

Not... really relevant to my point? Demigra's feat is done via Ki. It has Multiverse Range feats as well as a 2-B DC Feat.

Demigra's Ki = 2-B DC and Range

Anyone with > Demigra's Ki = Higher than Demigra's 2-B DC and Range

"The point of AP in the first place is if a character becomes > another character, they scale despite not having the range to destroy equal to what their level is. Like if I have the range to destroy an entire universe in a single attack, and some random dude comes and beats me in combat or overpowers me with stronger energy, that only means the latter is stronger than me and scales above my power. They have no feats of being able to actually release that amount of energy over the same or greater distance that I can."

Basically irrelevant? If that character has a higher degree of energy control than you along with more energy in general, then yes. They should be able to completely replicate your feat to an even higher degree.

Your arguments hinges on the fact that the person who performed the original feat had a special method or way or performing that feat which is just wrong. If the feat is done via sheer force, anyone stronger logically should be able to repeat it easily.

If someone has enough power to create a small gust of wind when they punch, a stronger person with more force and speed should be able to create a stronger gust of wind.
Does it even matter if the KI or energy in question is special or not? Demigra's power has the proven feat of being able to spread his energy over the given distance, Goku does not because he is simply upscaled. Having the same energy, amount of it, and using it in the same methods =/= using it to the same extent of range. Or else Attack Potency in general would be completely non-existent as everyone would have the range of what their energy level is. Obviously they don't.

"If I give a friend"

Not the same thing. At all actually. Because your letting your friend borrow the weapon you use, which performs at x levels of capability. The weapon's capabilities has nothing to do with the user's own capabilities because its built and made to act as such.

But i'll just drop this because its agree to disagree for me and we're only going in circles. That and it'll derail too much. I should probably just take this to another thread if ever wanting to pursue this later on.
 
Dragopentling said:
@Cal I actually watched that episode, too...I'm more up to date with Pokémon, though I've only completely watched the B/W series and the XYZ series.
That scene right there doesn't necessarily say it's an infinite amount, though, but it does bring into question whether or not Dialga really has the AP disadvantage here.
Nah, Dialga still has the AP disadvantage.

Goku as a Super Saiyan 1 is superior to a Demigra who performed a similar feat in terms of AP to Dialga's passive.

I'll come back later to probably reiterate the massive difference between Super Saiyan 1, 2, 3 and 4.
 
Dragopentling said:
That scene right there doesn't necessarily say it's an infinite amount, though, but it does bring into question whether or not Dialga really has the AP disadvantage here.
I dont think this was meant for infinite anything but just a higher end of 2-B.
 
I agree with Rin on this Cal . I had to do it for both Noein and Marvel , for their respective level of 2-A , despite already having the aforementioned scans for said upgrade to a higher end of a tier they already had, to even consider the characters to be higher end.

If this is accepted Dialga yawns and Goku dies.
 
A CRT for what really? Is one even needed in this case?

Its not upgrading tiers but simply the end of the tier they are already in, which it obviously does. Expert opinions should be the only thing required.

It granting an AP advantage is a separate matter to discuss.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
The real cal howard said:
Rin's right.
Yay ouo. Just to clarify, I don't mean to come off as being skeptical or anything.
You don't. At least, not to me. Tis the way things are. Until the CRT has been made, been examined, accepted and implemented, any information, revelations or changes it would bring are simply not releveant to the current discussion.
 
Yea, I was trying to say...it's not infinite by any means, but definitely more higher on the scale of 2B if confirmed and approved. As of right now, I personally think we need more evidence from anime, game, and/or manga sources along the way, and unfortunately I don't think this thread is gonna wait that long for them :/
 
Dragopentling said:
Yea, I was trying to say...it's not infinite by any means, but definitely more higher on the scale of 2B if confirmed and approved. As of right now, I personally think we need more evidence from anime, game, and/or manga sources along the way, and unfortunately I don't think this thread is gonna wait that long for them :/
If this thread concludes based off the current information and the CRT does go through and is accepted, the results will simply be outdated. Happens all the time.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
If it'll lead to a statistical change then a CRT must be created, weather it be a minor upgrade / downgrade or a massive upgrade or downgrade. Especially in this case where it could change the AP of Pokémon characters greatly, furthermore it hasn't even been looked into so I'm not sure why people are acting like it's accepted already.
Fair. And keep in mind I wasnt disagreeing with you, I was just curious if such a small upgrade (tier wise at least) actually even needed a separate thread.

Apologies.
 
12-18 universes per timeline


Infinite possibilities or possible timelines, according to Timepatrollers.


Along with Infinite History/non-finite History, according to Fuu.

And Space Times that don't effect one another, because the have separate histories. And history themselves being infinite.


Also there is an infinite loop of time patroller being born and summoned every second, corresponding to the creation of a seperate Xenoverses that are all connected Online.
 
For now Guko

If the Pokémon Upgrade is accepted, both are relatively equal in term of Timelines but Goku still have a massive advantage for having 12-18 Universe for each Timeline + his successive Transformation (Base Xeno = Multiversal), I'm not surprised if he Still One Shot with a breath.
 
Well don't forget, each individual universe in pokemon also has multiple timelines because of Celebi's existence and what not from the blog.
 
Xerkser500 said:
Well don't forget, each individual universe in pokemon also has multiple timelines because of Celebi's existence and what not from the blog.

Also now that I think about it, where is the 18 universe high end coming from?
There were originally 18 universes. Zeno wiped out 6 of them when he got upset
 
Forgot about that part. Nvm that last part then.

But wait, if they're canonically destroyed, why is it a factor? Unless are these 18 universes present in Xenoverse?
 
Xerkser500 said:
Forgot about that part. Nvm that last part then.

But wait, if they're canonically destroyed, why is it a factor? Unless are these 18 universes present in Xenoverse?
Due to how it works there are possible timelines where Zeno didn't destroy those universes.
 
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