God tier pokemon upgrade

[FinePoint]

The Pokémon creation story in itself is based on Taoism. Creation in Taoism starts with a single energy(Arceus) , dividing into a duality(Space/time, ) , then into three parts(Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf) , and finally into the rest of creation.

With Arceus Transcending all these. In PLA he exists beyond space/time and likely everything else

Just being based on Taoism doesn't mean anything.
You need to prove that these are real dualities in context.

 

[theultimate5105]

Bump

Question here, if Arceus predates the physical(matter) and the metaphysical(soul, mind) aspect of existence, doesn't that grant him nep.

Dialga and Palkia created the concept of matter and the lake trio created the concept of spirit, with each embodying the concept of willpower, knowledge and emotions

I mean it should. Arceus was also formed out of said nothingness

 

[Le'garde273]

and neutral on Arceus having transduality, though skeptical and leaning towards no. Most of the "dualities" are purely symbolic.

Yeah, except trio creation and trio lake

 

[Le'garde273]

And what i thinking is, instead BDE 0 doesn't BDE 1 make more sense? I mean he doesn't only predates time space or everything, but also transcend space and time itself.
Sheena's description of the realm of the trio of creation also shows that the arceus dimension is also larger than the spatial and temporal dimension.

doesn't this match with the BDE 1 description?

Type 1: Characters whose nature exceeds spatio-temporal dimensions in relation to a limited scope of existence, without automatically standing above further extensions of the concepts and their applications, normally due to some lack of evidence or context.

 

[Sniper670]

Hmm, isn't BDE a Tier 1/0 thing ?

 

[Le'garde273]

Hmm, isn't BDE a Tier 1/0 thing ?

From what i know, yes but type 0 and 1 can be owned by entities under 1-A

 

[Sniper670]

From what i know, yes but type 0 and 1 can be owned by entities under 1-A

I'm not too knowledgeable on BDE but considering Arceus transcends space/time I'm guessing BDE 1? or at least type 0 since he precedes both concepts

What does BDE 1 grant you tho?

 

[theultimate5105]

From what i know, yes but type 0 and 1 can be owned by entities under 1-A

I mean obviously if people below 1-A can get it.
But what is needed to interact with type 1 or 0

 

[Zeifyl]

I mean obviously if people below 1-A can get it.
But what is needed to interact with type 1 or 0

Personally, I have no idea... But I assume some powerful NPI or concept hax or something like that. Either that, or interacting with them doesn't require anything special, is my guess.

 

[Sniper670]

Starting to feel like this thread isn't going to go anywhere. Lol

 

[Sniper670]

Personally, I have no idea... But I assume some powerful NPI or concept hax or something like that. Either that, or interacting with them doesn't require anything special, is my guess.

Hmmm..... BDE is too vague on exactly what it does(or gives) anyway. I saw in some thread that it will be removed or revised. Oh well

 

[Zeifyl]

Starting to feel like this thread isn't going to go anywhere. Lol

I, for one, want this thread to go somewhere.

 

[Sniper670]

I, for one, want this thread to go somewhere.

Yup....

So Uhh, what now? Who are we waiting for. It's not as if the things Aether brought up were rejected, besides HG

NEP seems fine. The others I'm not too knowledgeable so I'll leave them

 

[Zeifyl]

And what i thinking is, instead BDE 0 doesn't BDE 1 make more sense? I mean he doesn't only predates time space or everything, but also transcend space and time itself.
Sheena's description of the realm of the trio of creation also shows that the arceus dimension is also larger than the spatial and temporal dimension.

doesn't this match with the BDE 1 description?

You know what, yeah... Arceus isn't just without spacetime. It transcends spacetime at its level. That does seem more like BDE1

 

[theultimate5105]

Yeah I am in agreement with BDE type 1

 

[ThatDarnFish]

Giratina and the distortion world being nothingness sounds good on paper, but in the games itself rather than the strategy book, the distortion world is said to just have a distorted flow of space and time. Many times. Dunno where they say the Distortion World is a world of nothingness other than the fact that it's literally empty in the sense that there's no people or Pokemon except Tina.

Lake Trio got saved, so that's already out.

Arceus existed before everything, so it makes sense to me that it would be beyond the things that it made. PLA makes it pretty clear that Llama came first. The way they say reality came into existence when Arceus acknowledged it makes in PLA makes it sound like "reality is based on perception" Once Llama proved reality existed by observing it, it became real... Or something like that. That's how I see it, anyway.

There's nothing passive about Dialga and Palkia making portals and messing with time. They were fighting each other and the mess they made was a byproduct. Like fire making smoke. It's like saying Goku has passive Earth manipulation because the ground starts shaking when he powers up. It's just a byproduct rather than a passive ability.

The events of the Darkrai move are already represented in Palkia's profile with Subjective Reality. Making the dreams of sleeping Pokemon become reality, not their souls.

 

[theultimate5105]

Giratina and the distortion world being nothingness sounds good on paper, but in the games itself rather than the strategy book, the distortion world is said to just have a distorted flow of space and time. Many times. Dunno where they say the Distortion World is a world of nothingness other than the fact that it's literally empty in the sense that there's no people or Pokemon except Tina.

There's nothing passive about Dialga and Palkia making portals and messing with time. They were fighting each other and the mess they made was a byproduct. Like fire making smoke. It's like saying Goku has passive Earth manipulation because the ground starts shaking when he powers up. It's just a byproduct rather than a passive ability.

Its not just the strategy book. Its WOG, the anime, the manga, etc
There fighting was passively doing so without their intent to do it at all

 

[Sniper670]

Giratina and the distortion world being nothingness sounds good on paper, but in the games itself rather than the strategy book, the distortion world is said to just have a distorted flow of space and time. Many times. Dunno where they say the Distortion World is a world of nothingness other than the fact that it's literally empty in the sense that there's no people or Pokemon except Tina.

Yep, the Distortion world in the movie is very different from the manga, which is also very different from the games. Contradictory? Or each universe has their own distortion would with a bigger one intertwining with the entire multiverse. Like the Avatar-true form thing

Anyway, Arceus being born from chaos=nothingness should grant it nep. Predating reality should grant him nep. Predating the physical and metaphysical aspect of existence should grant it, and the creation trio NEP.

Arceus predating everything hence transcending everything should grant him a whole lot of things, like Acausality type 5 for transcending even Giratina's world. Which doesn't obey the laws of cause and effect, with no concept of time and a broken space

Basically he doesn't need anything from reality to even live. He stands above everything in the multiverse........... except that meteoritte, which is Tier 1

 

[QuasiYuri]

Predating stuff doesn't really give anything tho.

 

[ThatDarnFish]

Its not just the strategy book. Its WOG, the anime, the manga, etc
There fighting was passively doing so without their intent to do it at all

That's not passive, then. Their fighting causes it. If the two of them just being there made it happen, then you can call it passive. They were fighting and their fighting created these effects.

 

[Sniper670]

Predating stuff doesn't really give anything tho..

In the right context it does, no?

Anyway what are your thoughts on everything that's been said here so far. Need to get this over with.

 

[Zeifyl]

What are we still waiting for input on, and what mods haven't been summoned yet?

 

[Arthex]

Sorry if this feels like a derail, but which nature of nep would they get? and yes, what's the requirement to interact with bde type 1?

 

[Zeifyl]

Sorry if this feels like a derail, but which nature of nep would they get? and yes, what's the requirement to interact with bde type 1?

I think 3 for the CT (or at the very least Giratina), and 3, with a slight possibility of 2 for llama (since existence itself didn't exist when it come into being, and there is a chance that nonexistence also didn't exist yet, but this will need further evidence)

No idea for the other question.

 

[Arthex]

I think 3 for the CT (or at the very least Giratina), and 3, with a slight possibility of 2 for llama (since existence itself didn't exist when it come into being, and there is a chance that nonexistence also didn't exist yet, but this will need further evidence)

No idea for the other question.

Welp, that will make a lot of matches a stomp.

 

[theultimate5105]

I think 3 for the CT (or at the very least Giratina), and 3, with a slight possibility of 2 for llama (since existence itself didn't exist when it come into being, and there is a chance that nonexistence also didn't exist yet, but this will need further evidence)

No idea for the other question.

I mean the void Arceus existed as existed before the distortion world and exists outside of the system of the distortion world and the regular world

 

[Zeifyl]

Welp, that will make a lot of matches a stomp.

Not necessarily. I might be completely wrong about both natures. Those are just the ones that seems accurate to me. Also, it may not budge any matches at all.

 

[Thelastmlg]

i tried to translate the japanese version using deepl and uhhh
"It's everywhere, it's everywhere, it's everywhere, it's everywhere, it's everywhere, it's everywhere."
I am feeling scared

Omnipotence: unlimited power and transcendence over everything

Omniscience: knownledge of absolutely everything

Omnipresence:

 

[Arthex]

Not necessarily. I might be completely wrong about both natures. Those are just the ones that seems accurate to me. Also, it may not budge any matches at all.

Only The Top Tiers Of Non Smurf Tier 2 can affect nep 2 iirc. Nep is a factor pokemon always lacked in vsbattles against op tier 2s, which wouldn't be the case now...

 

[Sniper670]

Only The Top Tiers Of Non Smurf Tier 2 can affect nep 2 iirc. Nep is a factor pokemon always lacked in vsbattles against op tier 2s, which wouldn't be the case now...

Well, yeah. that wouldn't be the case if this thread was going anywhere at all

 

[Zeifyl]

Only The Top Tiers Of Non Smurf Tier 2 can affect nep 2 iirc. Nep is a factor pokemon always lacked in vsbattles against op tier 2s, which wouldn't be the case now...

I'm under the impression that most things with nep 2 outhaxes in other ways as well.

 

[Arthex]

I'm under the impression that most things with nep 2 outhaxes in other ways as well.

They do, however pokemon can win way more matches if ppl can't affect them or they can affect nep 2.

 

[Sniper670]

They do, however pokemon can win way more matches if ppl can't affect them or they can affect nep 2.

Arceus and his ever expanding defensive haxes.
Anyway, Anos should be able to take him down. Months ago, that was Inconclusive. Well that's if nep 2 gets accepted and that match becomes possible again

 

[Zeifyl]

And probably NEP2 doesn't get accepted. NEP3 might not even get accepted.

 

[theultimate5105]

And probably NEP2 doesn't get accepted. NEP3 might not even get accepted.

honestly NEP type 3 needs to be accepted its complete BS for it to not be accepted

 

[theultimate5105]

Bump

 

[speedster352]

I agree fra

 

[Sniper670]

honestly NEP type 3 needs to be accepted its complete BS for it to not be accepted

There's no evidence to suggest type 3 tho. Is there?

Cos the only evidence we got for nep seems to be type 2, which is Distortion world's nature. If that isn't enough then I'm afraid theres no nep for llama god

 

[theultimate5105]

There's no evidence to suggest type 3 tho. Is there?

Cos the only evidence we got for nep seems to be type 2, which is Distortion world's nature. If that isn't enough then I'm afraid theres no nep for llama god

The arguments against NEP type 2 would make perfect sense for NEP type 3 if we take them as valid

 

[Arthex]

which is harder to interact with btw, nep 2 or 3?