God tier pokemon upgrade

[Lynieryz]

Where does High-Godly come from?

 

[Le'garde273]

I see you were motivated to change your pfp.

Haha, now you should motivated too

I believe they are one and the same. The distortion world goes under several different names, but its game and anime depictions more or less follow the same purpose - a world that "balances" the regular Pokemon world.

Yeah, both anime and game have same purpose and thing but different version.

With my limited knowledge, Arceus does get something from the “Everywhere and nowhere” line. It’s the Blank Plate in PLA that gives it.

Does this one?

• Pixie Plate: "The Original One is in all things. The Original One is nowhere at all."

 

[Le'garde273]

Where does High-Godly come from?

From my purpose making it because, in Ultra Sun or Ultra moon series, cyrus it's said get summoned from world that his plans was succeed erasing "the spirit" Which is the lake trio itself, since they're fundamental, when he erased they that caused world get destroy. And when he already get recruited by giovanni, he realized that spirit still capable to exist, which even though he erased it before until the world became zero. And now the lake trio still can be encountered in USUM.

 

[theultimate5105]

Where does High-Godly come from?

Cyrus’s goal was to erase the concept of Spirit
however even after alt Cyrus erased it the Lake Trio still currently exists

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Haha, now you should motivated too


Yeah, both anime and game have same purpose and thing but different version.




Does this one?

Thanks for the clarification. It was Pixie, not Blank. My b.

 

[Arceus0x]

I disagree with high godly. He managed to erase them from one universe, not the 2-A multiverse they are across

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I disagree with high godly. He managed to erase them from one universe, not the 2-A multiverse they are across

That sounds more like immortality.

 

[Arceus0x]

That sounds more like immortality.

nah it's how they work. Imagine you have a planet and you errased a chunk of it, yet it still exists. Doesn't give the planet high godly does it?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

nah it's how they work. Imagine you have a planet and you errased a chunk of it, yet it still exists. Doesn't give the planet high godly does it?

I ain't arguing about High Godly, I would be arguing for Type 8 Immortality.

Because the spirit was wiped out from that universe in particular multiple times, so if they still exist in their respective universes, that means the simple concept they are either, not erased, therefore they're still able to come back.
Or not bound to their respective universe, but the entire multiverse, meaning as long as their particular concept exists SOMEWHERE in the 2-A multiverse, they are able to come back.


Cyrus succeedes in wiping out the Lake Trio twice.
They come back anyway. Even if that's in their respective universes, that's still a feat of either Type 8, or Resurrection Immortality.


Although the use of Palkia and Dialga, both of which affect everything on a Multiversal scale, to destroy the world (sekai) and the Lake Trio wouldn't necessarily restrict itself to their particular universe either.

 

[Arceus0x]

I ain't arguing about High Godly, I would be arguing for Type 8 Immortality.

Because the spirit was wiped out from that universe in particular multiple times, so if they still exist in their respective universes, that means the simple concept they are either, not erased, therefore they're still able to come back.
Or not bound to their respective universe, but the entire multiverse, meaning as long as their particular concept exists SOMEWHERE in the 2-A multiverse, they are able to come back.


Cyrus succeedes in wiping out the Lake Trio twice.
They come back anyway. Even if that's in their respective universes, that's still a feat of either Type 8, or Resurrection Immortality.


Although the use of Palkia and Dialga, both of which affect everything on a Multiversal scale, to destroy the world (sekai) and the Lake Trio wouldn't necessarily restrict itself to their particular universe either.

Either I don't understand or you don't understand. What im saying is, the lake trio are the concepts of spirit mind and whatever else across the multiverse when Cyrus only affected a single universe.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Either I don't understand or you don't understand. What im saying is, the lake trio are the concepts of spirit mind and whatever else across the multiverse when Cyrus only affected a single universe.

So Type 8 Immortality then. "As long as X concept exists, the user will too".

Although no, Cyrus stated he would erase the Lake Trio itself, he stated them by name, so it would have been on such a scale, and he does so with two Multiversal creatures.

 

[Arceus0x]

So Type 8 Immortality then. "As long as X concept exists, the user will too".

Although no, Cyrus stated he would erase the Lake Trio itself, he stated them by name, so it would have been on such a scale, and he does so with two Multiversal creatures.

Only for avatars at best. True forms are the concepts.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Only for avatars at best. True forms are the concepts.

The true forms would obviously scale to this, lmao.
Again, Cyrus states he would erase every human spirit, thus, ending "spirit", and he succeed, creating a world without it. Having other spirits on a infinitesimal scale on other universes seems rather counterintuitive even though the tools he used to accomplish that (Palkia and Dialga), are more than capable of affecting all the multiverse.
Both True Form Dialga and Palkia have Type 8 Immortality by being their concept itself, so the Lake Trio shouldn't be any different.

 

[Arceus0x]

The true forms would obviously scale to this, lmao.
Again, Cyrus states he would erase every human spirit, thus, ending "spirit", and he succeed, creating a world without it. Having other spirits on a infinitesimal scale on other universes seems rather counterintuitive even though the tools he used to accomplish that (Palkia and Dialga), are more than capable of affecting all the multiverse.
Both True Form Dialga and Palkia have Type 8 Immortality by being their concept itself, so the Lake Trio shouldn't be any different.

ngl that is kinda sus.
It kinda does sense but i feel like it may be wrong via rules.
I think we need to call @ProfessorKukui4Life here or @Executor_N0

 

[Executor_N0]

First of all, about the "Spirit (That's, just "Kokoro" in the original work)", it's just being misunderstood. Cyrus thinks that what makes the world imperfect is the imperfect spirit made of Willpower, Knowledge, and Emotions, but this is because he does not understand fully this cosmology.

First of all, it's all" Kokoro". The Lake Trio are the ones who enriched the "Kokoro", binding time and space and giving it to every living being, however, the "Kokoro" is in fact, Arceus. The "Kokoro" is all-encompassing and Space, Time, Willpower, Knowledge, Emotions, and so on, are all just parts, "Bunshins", of it. Space, Time, "Anti-Matter", are the ones that give the world "form", while the other three are the ones that enrich the world allowing it to be shaped by everyone living on it.

The fact that Cyrus understands "Kokoro" as not including time and space is an overall mistake of his, the "Kokoro" includes all of them. All that Cyrus could have done would be eliminate the aspects that allow the world to be enriched, nothing more.

Cyrus did not erase the "Kokoro" because the "Kokoro" also includes Time and Space, all that Cyrus would have done is make itself, a world with an incomplete "Kokoro". It's really just Cyrus not knowing the full picture just like his justification over Time and Space being all there's to "Sekai/Uchu" based on the kanjis, but he didn't notice that the other meaning for the world was also "Heavens and Earth" that would include the metaphysical aspect as well.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

First of all, about the "Spirit (That's, just "Kokoro" in the original work)", it's just being misunderstood. Cyrus thinks that what makes the world imperfect is the imperfect spirit made of Willpower, Knowledge, and Emotions, but this is because he does not understand fully this cosmology.

First of all, it's all" Kokoro". The Lake Trio are the ones who enriched the "Kokoro", binding time and space and giving it to every living being, however, the "Kokoro" is in fact, Arceus. The "Kokoro" is all-encompassing and Space, Time, Willpower, Knowledge, Emotions, and so on, are all just parts, "Bunshins", of it. Space, Time, "Anti-Matter", are the ones that give the world "form", while the other three are the ones that enrich the world allowing it to be shaped by everyone living on it.

The fact that Cyrus understands "Kokoro" as not including time and space is an overall mistake of his, the "Kokoro" includes all of them. All that Cyrus could have done would be eliminate the aspects that allow the world to be enriched, nothing more.

Cyrus did not erase the "Kokoro" because the "Kokoro" also includes Time and Space, all that Cyrus would have done is make itself, a world with an incomplete "Kokoro". It's really just Cyrus not knowing the full picture just like his justification over Time and Space being all there's to "Sekai/Uchu" based on the kanjis, but he didn't notice that the other meaning for the world was also "Heavens and Earth" that would include the metaphysical aspect as well.

Scans?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Scans?

There is no way.

 

[Executor_N0]

Scans?

The entire blog listed in this thread is where all of that is from (Plus a couple of things from Legends Arceus, but nothing really new)

 

[DontTalkDT]

Disagree with NEP. Everything about "lacking" stuff is just it being distorded, as stated in the same screens, and it just "doesn't need" spirit.
Besides, it's a world with very existing water, buildings and platforms.

Disagree with High Godly, since Cyrus basically says he got stopped.

For Transduality, most of the ones you mentonned are rather symbolic. Yveltal isn't the litteral concept of death for instance.
Also the only thing being a random "transcend everything" isn't really qualifying for the ability iirc.

^I pretty much disagree for these reasons.
We have seen plenty of the distortion world through lots of media. Enough to know that it isn't any literal nothingness. It doesn't even pass the true physical nonexistence requirement, as we have seen humans run around in it.

I disagree with the notion that spirit is a fundamental concept and, for that matter, the idea of regeneration from its erasure.

Transduality is a logic-based power. Just being beyond some representation shouldn't grant it.

 

[Executor_N0]

I disagree with the notion that spirit is a fundamental concept and, for that matter, the idea of regeneration from its erasure.

So, if I got this right, if the Spirit/Heart isn't a fundamental concept, then nothing in Pokémon is, because the Heart is literally the source of everything in that cosmology.

 

[DontTalkDT]

So, if I got this right, if the Spirit/Heart isn't a fundamental concept, then nothing in Pokémon is, because the Heart is literally the source of everything in that cosmology.

I mean I was always against conceptual stuff in Pokémon, but that's beside the point.
Maybe my info is outdated, but from what I remember, and see in the OP, the spirit Cyrus is talking about is contextually about the mental aspects. And mental aspects indeed are not fundamental concepts in terms of our High-Godly definition. I mean, heck, in the world Cyrus invisioned people and pokémon exist without spirit. Can't be all too fundamental if people aren't erased without it.

 

[Executor_N0]

I mean I was always against conceptual stuff in Pokémon, but that's beside the point.
Maybe my info is outdated, but from what I remember, and see in the OP, the spirit Cyrus is talking about is contextually about the mental aspects. And mental aspects indeed are not fundamental concepts in terms of our High-Godly definition. I mean, heck, in the world Cyrus invisioned people and pokémon exist without spirit. Can't be all too fundamental if people aren't erased without it.

Of course in the context that Cyrus was talking about it isn't, necessarily, but the information that you have might be outdated. Basically, the whole thing about the 4th gen gods is a wordplay with the words "Sekai", "Uchu" and "Kokoro". "Sekai" and "Uchu" are in the context talking about the universe, that is because the two words are made up from the kanjis that means "All of Time" and "All of Space", as such it puts "World/Universe" as "All of time and space" and puts Cyrus wanting to remove the "Spirit" (Or Kokoro in Japanese).

However, there's a different meaning to those words that is "Heavens and Earth", putting existence as not only the physical side (time and space), but also the metaphysical side (Spirit). And then the big point of this is with Arceus. The Localized text likes to call Arceus the "Original Spirit", "Newborn Spirit" or "Original One", but that isn't a thing in the original language and only "Kokoro" is ever used.

This is also another important thing because one of the meanings of Kokoro is "the totality of knowledge, emotions, and intention", which is exactly what the Lake Gods are about. But another general meaning for "Kokoro" could also be "mind", and that is the whole point of Arceus. According to the myths, the world is in fact a product of a single mind that encompassed everything, with every aspect of existence being a bunshin (That is, an avatar or branched off god) of that mind.

Dialga, Palkia and Giratina are the bunshins of the mind that gave the world "form", that is, the world is created from the mind. Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit are the bunshins that "expand" that mind. They enrich the mind and that ends up "expanding" the world, or, giving everyone their own "vision of the world".

So, the "Kokoro" is in fact the combined form of everything that existed, with the difference in all the aspects of existence just a product of the cognition of the mind/s. Cyrus was definitely wrong if he thought that he could really erase the Kokoro/mind because that would also include Time and Space, Cyrus is just unaware of that, or just chooses to ignore the truth. So, of course, Dialga and Palkia can't really "erase the entire spirit", at best they could try to remove the workings of three aspects of the "spirit" that are in charge with enriching the mind itself, but not everything.,

My question was with the "Kokoro" (Or Heart, Mind, Spirit or whatever you want to call that) not being a fundamental concept, because everything in the world is just a branched off part of that Mind, if even that isn't a "fundamental concept", then nothing in Pokémon is.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Of course in the context that Cyrus was talking about it isn't, necessarily, but the information that you have might be outdated. Basically, the whole thing about the 4th gen gods is a wordplay with the words "Sekai", "Uchu" and "Kokoro". "Sekai" and "Uchu" are in the context talking about the universe, that is because the two words are made up from the kanjis that means "All of Time" and "All of Space", as such it puts "World/Universe" as "All of time and space" and puts Cyrus wanting to remove the "Spirit" (Or Kokoro in Japanese).

However, there's a different meaning to those words that is "Heavens and Earth", putting existence as not only the physical side (time and space), but also the metaphysical side (Spirit). And then the big point of this is with Arceus. The Localized text likes to call Arceus the "Original Spirit", "Newborn Spirit" or "Original One", but that isn't a thing in the original language and only "Kokoro" is ever used.

This is also another important thing because one of the meanings of Kokoro is "the totality of knowledge, emotions, and intention", which is exactly what the Lake Gods are about. But another general meaning for "Kokoro" could also be "mind", and that is the whole point of Arceus. According to the myths, the world is in fact a product of a single mind that encompassed everything, with every aspect of existence being a bunshin (That is, an avatar or branched off god) of that mind.

Dialga, Palkia and Giratina are the bunshins of the mind that gave the world "form", that is, the world is created from the mind. Azelf, Uxie, and Mesprit are the bunshins that "expand" that mind. They enrich the mind and that ends up "expanding" the world, or, giving everyone their own "vision of the world".

So, the "Kokoro" is in fact the combined form of everything that existed, with the difference in all the aspects of existence just a product of the cognition of the mind/s. Cyrus was definitely wrong if he thought that he could really erase the Kokoro/mind because that would also include Time and Space, Cyrus is just unaware of that, or just chooses to ignore the truth. So, of course, Dialga and Palkia can't really "erase the entire spirit", at best they could try to remove the workings of three aspects of the "spirit" that are in charge with enriching the mind itself, but not everything.,

My question was with the "Kokoro" (Or Heart, Mind, Spirit or whatever you want to call that) not being a fundamental concept, because everything in the world is just a branched off part of that Mind, if even that isn't a "fundamental concept", then nothing in Pokémon is.

I can't really confirm or deny anything concerning japanese translations. 'Kokoro' is also a word that definitely could be used at different times to contextually mean different things. It might not be an issue of Cyrus even being wrong, but him just using the word to mean something else in context.
Well, as far as we agree on it not indicating high-godly it doesn't matter.

What your question of Kokoro is concerned... well, let's say I don't think it's more than the sum of its parts. As long as something else is accepted as a fundamental concept in the verse it would be too, given that it encompasses everything, but should nothing else be considered such I don't think it would have a leg to stand on either.

 

[hajime]

bump

 

[Le'garde273]

Idk what i've to say, it's become more complicated than i though. It's seem high godly rejected, and how about NEP and rest other does it fine?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Idk what i've to say, it's become more complicated than i though. It's seem high godly rejected, and how about NEP and rest other does it fine?

And cogita statements it's seem connect to all explanation that executor said

That one was a theory, but its actually stated that the thoughts of humanity can stretch beyond time and space, and the belief of mankind is what stopped the universe from being destroyed in Platinum

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Idk what i've to say, it's become more complicated than i though. It's seem high godly rejected, and how about NEP and rest other does it fine?

And cogita statements it's seem connect to all explanation that executor said

Trying to re-open my P:LA CRT for a few days now, but apparently I can't discuss 99% of the things because @Arceus0x will make a bigger, better CRT on 1st Stage Pokémon. Please refrain from using P:LA stuff for now.

 

[Le'garde273]

Trying to re-open my P:LA CRT for a few days now, but apparently I can't discuss 99% of the things because @Arceus0x will make a bigger, better CRT on 1st Stage Pokémon. Please refrain from using P:LA stuff for now.

Ok sorry i will edit it, i am just trying to connect the discussion

 

[Arceus0x]

Trying to re-open my P:LA CRT for a few days now, but apparently I can't discuss 99% of the things because @Arceus0x will make a bigger, better CRT on 1st Stage Pokémon. Please refrain from using P:LA stuff for now.

you can make it. All i want is the low 7-B part cause that would be better to revise along with the rest of the tiers instead of what you have rn. It will take time for the CRT since my school is dumb and i need to prepare for 3 days of hell (14th to 16th) so i don't get 100% of my grade ruined. Basically, do the CRT but without the tiers cause its better to make it more organized.

 

[hajime]

Idk what i've to say, it's become more complicated than i though. It's seem high godly rejected, and how about NEP and rest other does it fine?

let's continue for nep and transduality but most people forgot this crt

 

[Le'garde273]

let's continue for nep and transduality but most people forgot this crt

Not sure anymore about TD 2

 

[hajime]

Not sure anymore about TD 2

let's say for nep thenlet's say for nep then

 

[theultimate5105]

bump

 

[Sniper670]

Bump

 

[Sniper670]

Not sure anymore about TD 2

What happens to NEP then? I'm not sure about the other abilities but NEP is the most straightforward. And most of us agree on that

 

[Le'garde273]

What happens to NEP then? I'm not sure about the other abilities but NEP is the most straightforward. And most of us agree on that

I hope so for nep
hgr is rejected and for the rest include nep it's seems need more input

 

[theultimate5105]

Bump
anyways High Godly seems to be rejected
NEP is mostly accepted overall
Transduality is mixed right now with type 2 mostly denied
BDE and Palkia and Dialgas stuff seem to have Nobody rejecting them so far
for NEP. Even the rocks, trees, etc in the distortion world disappear at random as if they didn’t exist at all

 

[Sniper670]

Bump
anyways High Godly seems to be rejected
NEP is mostly accepted overall
Transduality is mixed right now
BDE and Palkia and Dialgas stuff seem to have Nobody rejecting them so far
for NEP. Even the rocks, trees, etc in the distortion world disappear at random as if they didn’t exist at all

Bump

Question here, if Arceus predates the physical(matter) and the metaphysical(soul, mind) aspect of existence, doesn't that grant him nep.

Dialga and Palkia created the concept of matter and the lake trio created the concept of spirit, with each embodying the concept of willpower, knowledge and emotions

 

[FinePoint]

As I said in the last thread about NEP, I'm in support of Giratina having NEP, and neutral on Arceus having transduality, though skeptical and leaning towards no. Most of the "dualities" are purely symbolic.

Might look at the other points of the CRT later if this thread doesn't get closed or something.

 

[Sniper670]

As I said in the last thread about NEP, I'm in support of Giratina having NEP, and neutral on Arceus having transduality, though skeptical and leaning towards no. Most of the "dualities" are purely symbolic.

Might look at the other points of the CRT later if this thread doesn't get closed or something.

The Pokémon creation story in itself is based on Taoism. Creation in Taoism starts with a single energy(Arceus) , dividing into a duality(Space/time, ) , then into three parts(Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf) , and finally into the rest of creation.

With Arceus Transcending all these. In PLA he exists beyond space/time and likely everything else