Garou VS Kaidou

[Livinmeme]

From what I hear recently from Fluffy, his reactive evolution to heat isn't that high.

And if he evolves too much then he can just focus drastically more heat on him.
Whenever someone takes his Bolo Breath, he moves closer and lets the person take more of his attack, then he can do it to a further extent, and then he can activate his flame avatar which would viciously burn him.

Garou won't let him be hit with breath fire after he gets hits for the first time? specially when he has several ways of reflecting atacks

 

[SnookB]

There is also not a single feat of Heat that comes even close to it from Akainus Heat aura other then the vaporized sword blade (which did not vaporize anything else nearby)

Akainu's heat has to be over Sanji's based on nothing but the author saying his DF has the highest offense due to its heat.
Sanji's Ifrit Jambe ionizes air with enough temperatures to create lightning, aka 27,760°C

He was asleep, and once he got by a headon attack, he evolved.

"He evolved" and yet he didn't evolve fast enough to one-shot or be enough of a blitz for darkshine to stop perceiving him.

He's still mortal

Tell that to the bajillion Ryuou attacks he took from Luffy, the literal radiation based explosion TO HIS HEART from Law, another radiation based attack to the throat, dura neg slashing through his internals by Killer.

Garou will quickly overwhelm him with speed ramp

Something that Kaido himself has, that ACTUALLY blitz comparables to the point of being unseen instead of "he got faster so it has to be a blitz" in Garou's case.

Ya'll acting like Kaido's gonna stand still and let everything happen. The guy's Danmaku is ridiculous, his AOE is enough to cover a huge portion of the skull dome, and his sheer versatility between shifting forms middle battle and not shying away from biting down on his opponents to blast breath them point blank. He's shown RE and Empowerment both mid-battle that can overwhelm relative characters WITH RE in SECONDS, and the sheer amount of punishment his internals can take is redundant to even mention considering his entire fight across Onigashima was 90% Kaido trucking through several forms of dura neg.

Garou will do all you're saying he can do if Kaido just sits still, basically.
Garou evolves faster than Kaido, yes. But Kaido will evolve, even if at a slower rate, and STILL be more versatile/have greater range/give Garou issues with dura negging vitals via his Zoan form, layered precog via kenbunshoku, regen negging via busoshoku.

Hell, you could say "Kaido isn't the type of guy to spam" yet the guy noticed G5 Luffy was still weak to cutting and ABUSED THAT SHIT to hell and back.

 

[theultimate5105]

Akainu's heat has to be over Sanji's based on nothing but the author saying his DF has the highest offense due to its heat.
Sanji's Ifrit Jambe ionizes air with enough temperatures to create lightning, aka 27,760°C

So you are saying Akainus passive Heat aura=his full power bloodlusted Heat now.
Also how long ago did he say that, and the statement only applies to devil fruits in this context.

 

[Kachon123]

The guy's Danmaku is ridiculous

I've asked this multiple times. Show scans of his Danmaku.

 

[Livinmeme]

Something that Kaido himself has, that ACTUALLY blitz comparables to the point of being unseen instead of "he got faster so it has to be a blitz" in Garou's case.

Ya'll acting like Kaido's gonna stand still and let everything happen. The guy's Danmaku is ridiculous, his AOE is enough to cover a huge portion of the skull dome, and his sheer versatility between shifting forms middle battle and not shying away from biting down on his opponents to blast breath them point blank. He's shown RE and Empowerment both mid-battle that can overwhelm relative characters WITH RE in SECONDS, and the sheer amount of punishment his internals can take is redundant to even mention considering his entire fight across Onigashima was 90% Kaido trucking through several forms of dura neg.

Garou will do all you're saying he can do if Kaido just sits still, basically.
Garou evolves faster than Kaido, yes. But Kaido will evolve, even if at a slower rate, and STILL be more versatile/have greater range/give Garou issues with dura negging vitals via his Zoan form, layered precog via kenbunshoku, regen negging via busoshoku.

Hell, you could say "Kaido isn't the type of guy to spam" yet the guy noticed G5 Luffy was still weak to cutting and ABUSED THAT SHIT to hell and back.

The problem is that garou has actual solid numbers to kinda decipher how strong his amps are instead of ¨they make him far stronger by a uknown amount¨

 

[Kachon123]

Akainu's heat has to be over Sanji's based on nothing but the author saying his DF has the highest offense due to its heat.

Thats not what was stated. Akainu said that the Magu Magu no Mi has an elemental advantage over Mera Mera no Mi due to Magma burning fire. Sanji was stated prior to obtaining Ifrit Jambe that his flames surpass the heat of normal flames as well, so there is absolutely 0 reason why Akainu would scale to Ifrit's heat.

 

[Livinmeme]

Eh.... so apperently my vote wasn't counter so i guess i vote for garou i guess (if it wasn't obvious alredy)

 

[Kachon123]

I think thats Garou's win so far right? The vote gap is 3 at this point.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Akainu's heat has to be over Sanji's based on nothing but the author saying his DF has the highest offense due to its heat.
Sanji's Ifrit Jambe ionizes air with enough temperatures to create lightning, aka 27,760°C

Eh, I tend to be opposed to out of source statements, but I don't see any immediate reason to debate this one

"He evolved" and yet he didn't evolve fast enough to one-shot or be enough of a blitz for darkshine to stop perceiving him.

This is a single instance, compared to several others, where it's practically EXACTLY what Garou did

the speed of his evolution also seems to speed up it's rate, though this isn't stated I don't think and it's mostly my own interpretation, so I won't use that

Tell that to the bajillion Ryuou attacks he took from Luffy, the literal radiation based explosion TO HIS HEART from Law, another radiation based attack to the throat, dura neg slashing through his internals by Killer.

Radiation tanking isn't durability negation resistance, that's radiation resistance, not to mention ONE METHOD OF DURABILITY NEGATION AND ANOTHER AREN'T NESSESCARILY THE SAME

Something that Kaido himself has, that ACTUALLY blitz comparables to the point of being unseen instead of "he got faster so it has to be a blitz" in Garou's case.

once again, you are standing on a single outlier from garou to make an argument (2x now)

Garou evolves faster than Kaido, yes. But Kaido will evolve, even if at a slower rate, and STILL be more versatile/have greater range/give Garou issues with dura negging vitals via his Zoan form, layered precog via kenbunshoku, regen negging via busoshoku.

See here, you 1. contradicted your prior point that I quoted, and 2. if it's a slower rate of evolution, he's not going to catch up with Garou, it's basically having two sprinters, one is walking, the other is jogging, not taking stamina into account, the walking one will NEVER catch up, and will fall further and further behind

Ya'll acting like Kaido's gonna stand still and let everything happen.

Actually, please reread our prior points, that's exactly what's going to happen because he won't be fast enough to react or dodge

The guy's Danmaku is ridiculous, his AOE is enough to cover a huge portion of the skull dome

Garou speed and agility counters this, plus his IR

and his sheer versatility between shifting forms middle battle and not shying away from biting down on his opponents to blast breath them point blank.

Not going to help against someone leagues faster with speed constantly building as the fight progresses

He's shown RE and Empowerment both mid-battle that can overwhelm relative characters WITH RE in SECONDS

Okay? One character with RE is not necessarily on par with another character with RE, you already admitted yourself that Garou had better RE, so this point does pretty much nothing but further along your road to finger cramps and carpal tunnel

nd the sheer amount of punishment his internals can take is redundant to even mention considering his entire fight across Onigashima was 90% Kaido trucking through several forms of dura neg.

this doesn't mean he has total immunity to durability negation, Garou can likely dura neg to the point where Kaidou has dust for bones then just behead him with a head chop or something similar

 

[Kachon123]

Kaido only has mid-low regen. He can not regenerate from having all of his bones and organs turned into dust.

 

[SnookB]

So you are saying Akainus passive Heat aura=his full power bloodlusted Heat now.

Are you saying Akainu actually trying to kill you somehow burns hotter than Akainu just passing by you????

I've asked this multiple times. Show scans of his Danmaku.

I made it up obviously

 

[WrongIdea21]

thats... not... how it works

?

alrighty, where tf is that on Kaidou's profile? I see no resistance to Durability negation anywhere on it, nor any abilities on his profile that would stop

Read the Haki Page, please.

Somebody need to refresh.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

may just be the artstyle, but this doesn't look very danmaku to me

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah also garou dura neg combined with (AP advantage + Eventual AP and speed stomp with IR), make it that a good hit in the head may cause internal bleeding

 

[Magmag]

"The Hero Hunter" Garou VS "The Strongest Creature" Kaidou​

• Starting Distance: 30m
• Both in-character
• Post-Darkshine Garou in 6-A key

LOCATION:

Garou: 12 (@Kin201, @Phoenks, @Quangotjokes, @Kachon123, @Megaraptor149, @FluffyCreatureZ, @The_Legendary_Vin, @Pain_to12, @Kenshin_, @JustANormalPerson01, @Zencha9, @Livinmeme)
Kaidou: 12 (@XDragnoir, @KingTempest, @Greatsage13th, @LordGinSama, @SnookB, @ZoroNotZolo, @StrawHatArslan, @Ryuga21, @WrongIdea21, @Shadyboi0, @Jibz, @Eminiteable)
Inconclusive: 1 (@SuperStar)

Voting Garou(idk if u missed my vote or something)

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Kaido only has mid-low regen. He can not regenerate from having all of his bones and organs turned into dust.

Fa Jin does not literally turn bones and organs into dust, otherwise Bang would have died instantly

 

[WrongIdea21]

may just be the artstyle, but this doesn't look very danmaku to me

Why?

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Read the Haki Page, please.

I have, and still think my current arguments stand as of rn

 

[Livinmeme]

Fa Jin does not literally turn bones and organs into dust, otherwise Bang would have died instantly

Yes it does, he pratically states that against saitama and that is 7-B garou not 6-A garou

 

[Kachon123]

I made it up obviously

Great. Now explain to me how that is more impressive than the Danmaku Garou has faced:

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Fa Jin does not literally turn bones and organs into dust, otherwise Bang would have died instantly

Fa Jin is in his post centipede key, check his darkshine ki

 

[SnookB]

Thats not what was stated. Akainu said that the Magu Magu no Mi has an elemental advantage over Mera Mera no Mi due to Magma burning fire.

It literally has nothing to do with anything mera Mera related?????????????
Oda is PRAISING AKAINU'S TEMPERATURE for being the reason behind his absurd offense.

"With the ability to manipulate magma, Akainu possesses the greatest attack power among the Devil Fruits."

Yeah also garou dura neg combined with (AP advantage + Eventual AP and speed stomp with IR), make it that a good hit in the head may cause internal bleeding

Again, Kaido got hit by dura neg that does this:

Ryuou dura neg literally obliterates things from the inside. The inside of that tree is GONE. Kaido's organs tank that.

may just be the artstyle, but this doesn't look very danmaku to me

It is. They don't come in quick succession, they all shoot out simultaneously. That's Danmaku.

Kaido only has mid-low regen. He can not regenerate from having all of his bones and organs turned into dust.

Give one instance where it did that. Garou got shocked that someone like Saitama had strong enough insides to tank that.
Kaido's the same. His internal durability tanks 6-A dura neg tanking, if not greater due to the fact that he can take dozens upon DOZENS of hits internally and shrug them all off.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Great. Now explain to me how that is more impressive than the Danmaku Garou has faced:

wasn't he dramatically weakened for the arrow one too?

 

[TauanVictor]

Voting Garou(idk if u missed my vote or something)

I really missed your vote, sorry. I already added it.

 

[SnookB]

Great. Now explain to me how that is more impressive than the Danmaku Garou has faced:

Danmaku is Danmaku. The ones Garou took on pre-monster form might as well be slower than Kaido's attack speed so there's no point.
Kaido's is nigh-undetectable while at it due to being hard to perceive by kenbun users.

 

[Kachon123]

Fa Jin does not literally turn bones and organs into dust, otherwise Bang would have died instantly

Garou did not use Fa Jin against Bang. He used RASRF. Bang only got grazed. Bomb said that if Bang took a direct hit (which he didn't), his bones would be effected. Despite RASRF just grazing Bang, he was incapacitated.

 

[Livinmeme]

Oh

It literally has nothing to do with anything mera Mera related?????????????
Oda is PRAISING AKAINU'S TEMPERATURE for being the reason behind his absurd offense.

"With the ability to manipulate magma, Akainu possesses the greatest attack power among the Devil Fruits."

Again, Kaido got hit by dura neg that does this:

Ryuou dura neg literally obliterates things from the inside. The inside of that tree is GONE. Kaido's organs tank that.

It is. They don't come in quick succession, they all shoot out simultaneously. That's Danmaku.

Give one instance where it did that. Garou got shocked that someone like Saitama had strong enough insides to tank that.
Kaido's the same. His internal durability tanks 6-A dura neg tanking, if not greater due to the fact that he can take dozens upon DOZENS of hits internally and shrug them all off.

Luffy doesn't have 2X ap that is constantly increasing

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Danmaku is Danmaku. The ones Garou took on pre-monster form might as well be slower than Kaido's attack speed so there's no point.
Kaido's is nigh-undetectable while at it due to being hard to perceive by kenbun users.

Danmaku is not all even or the same.

 

[Livinmeme]

Danmaku is Danmaku. The ones Garou took on pre-monster form might as well be slower than Kaido's attack speed so there's no point.
Kaido's is nigh-undetectable while at it due to being hard to perceive by kenbun users.

Nah there are different types of danmaku, because by that logic the danmaku of a guy with a minigun would be the same than the danmaku of 2hu with speed equalized

 

[Kachon123]

Danmaku is Danmaku. The ones Garou took on pre-monster form might as well be slower than Kaido's attack speed so there's no point.
Kaido's is nigh-undetectable while at it due to being hard to perceive by kenbun users.

Danmaku is not the same in all cases. The amount of projectiles Kaidou sent are nothing near what Garou has dealt with before. And about your speed point, the moment Kaidou uses Kaifu, Garou would already be faster than him, so you can't use speed as a debunk.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Garou did not use Fa Jin against Bang. He used RASRF. Bang only got grazed. Bomb said that if Bang took a direct hit (which he didn't), his bones would be effected. Despite RASRF just grazing Bang, he was incapacitated.

Fa Jin is an improved version of RASRF

And even so, there is no proof that Fa Jin is able to pulverize people's organs

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Danmaku is Danmaku. The ones Garou took on pre-monster form might as well be slower than Kaido's attack speed so there's no point.
Kaido's is nigh-undetectable while at it due to being hard to perceive by kenbun users.

What bullshit.
Not all danmaku is the same. From all the scans you sent, the max number of projectiles kaido had on screen at once was 8, EIGHT. That is literally not enough to qualify for baseline danmaku.
On the otherhand, garou was able to dodge and predict danmaku from golden bullet that was ricocheting and it was comparable to him in speed.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

tbh, if he's saying "Danmaku is Danmaku" I want him to play the first fight in undertale, then the fight against omega flowey and try to say it again

 

[Kachon123]

It literally has nothing to do with anything mera Mera related?????????????
Oda is PRAISING AKAINU'S TEMPERATURE for being the reason behind his absurd offense.

"With the ability to manipulate magma, Akainu possesses the greatest attack power among the Devil Fruits."

You literally just contradicted your point. You said that it was stated to be the most powerful because of it's heat. That was never implied or directly stated.

In Marineford, Akainu said this:

 

[WrongIdea21]

Great. Now explain to me how that is more impressive than the Danmaku Garou has faced:

Invisible and Bigger.

I have, and still think my current arguments stand as of rn

Resistance Negation (Users with superior Buso can resist the affects of Haki negating their resistances, shown with Gear 4th Luffy negating Doflamingo's negation of Luffy's resistance to physical attacks[34])

 

[SnookB]

Yes it does, he pratically states that against saitama and that is 7-B garou not 6-A garou

And yet it didn't work that way. Insides aren't mean to be as durable as the body, and Garou could've VERY EASILY meant what he said while talking about regular organs, not SAITAMA TIERS.

Luffy doesn't have 2X ap that is constantly increasing

Luffy greatly upscales from the 6A value and is constantly getting stronger via haki bloom. So yes he does.

Danmaku is not all even or the same.

Kaidou uses Kaifu, Garou would already be faster than him

Source: trust me bro
Again, they're undetectable by characters who can see with their eyes closed. What part of that is hard to understand?

Not all danmaku is the same. From all the scans you sent, the max number of projectiles kaido had on screen at once was 8, EIGHT. That is literally not enough to qualify for baseline danmaku.

8 that we can see. We see cuts all around the dome meaning he fired omnidirectionally.
And I know not all Danmaku is the same, OBVIOUSLY. But Kaido's have an edge in the fact that they're harder to detect that your regular Danmaku due to being harder to detect.

You said that it was stated to be the most powerful because of it's heat. That was never implied or directly stated.

"With the ability to manipulate Magma, Akainu has the highest offense". It's literally right there. He has the greatest AP because his DF's heat is without rival.

 

[Kachon123]

tbh, if he's saying "Danmaku is Danmaku" I want him to play the first fight in undertale, then the fight against omega flowey and try to say it again

LOL me too

 

[WrongIdea21]

You literally just contradicted your point. You said that it was stated to be the most powerful because of it's heat. That was never implied or directly stated.

In Marineford, Akainu said this:

He said his power is superior than Ace later on.

 

[Kachon123]

Invisible

Already countered at least 10 times.

Bigger

That's not going to matter lmao If anything, it would just make avoiding them easier, as they all can't hit him at the same time, so he really only needs to dodge a couple.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

• Shockwave Generation and Durability Negation (With Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist. This technique generates powerful shockwaves inside the opponent's body even if they block or deflect the attacks. Bomb stated that if Bang received just a single hit from Garou, these shockwaves would envelop his entire body and break all of his bones into pieces. A mere graze from Garou's fist was enough to defeat Bang, despite both having similar stats at the moment)

• Invisible and Bigger.