CinnabarManx421
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Ohh, now I get it,
You saucy b*tch. ovo
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Finally...
- Thread starter Peppypony
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CinnabarManx421
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Actually, she has been shown to use her Future Vision in combat before. Crossover Nexus At around 1:34 she uses her FV to counter Strike's attacks.
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But yeah, im voting Garnet for a few reasons above, plus her Regenerationn, and the fact she can easily reform back from Ruby and Sapphire and continue to fight. Lucario wouldnt know to aim for the gems in order to do serious damage, which are protected by reformable gauntlets.
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I'll be voting now.
Garnet'd be Rock/Psychic, not Rock/Fighting
Garnet's only advantages is her experience and speed. Future Vision is countered by aura reading, and Future Vision not being infallible, as shown numerous times (Sapphire getting saved by Ruby, Garnet getting poofed by Jasper, Garnet being surprised by Smoky, Garnet not knowing Pearl's lie, etc). Experience itself isn't enough of a boon to grant Lucario having a good amount of it himself, plus having more martial arts training than she. Speed would be good if Lucario couldn't boost his own, while Garnet can't do the same. Agility instantly destroys that gap, which wasn't too big to begin with. Power is still handily Lucario's. Garnet scales well above Rubies, sure, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still quite a bit less than the feat Lucario scales well above. Lucario has massive versatility, has range on his side, regen is countered by healing, and has Laser Focus to hit the gems.
Also, if Ruby and Sapphire do reform, given they both scale directly to Rubies instead of well above them, Lucario just taps them individually.
Garnet's only advantages is her experience and speed. Future Vision is countered by aura reading, and Future Vision not being infallible, as shown numerous times (Sapphire getting saved by Ruby, Garnet getting poofed by Jasper, Garnet being surprised by Smoky, Garnet not knowing Pearl's lie, etc). Experience itself isn't enough of a boon to grant Lucario having a good amount of it himself, plus having more martial arts training than she. Speed would be good if Lucario couldn't boost his own, while Garnet can't do the same. Agility instantly destroys that gap, which wasn't too big to begin with. Power is still handily Lucario's. Garnet scales well above Rubies, sure, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still quite a bit less than the feat Lucario scales well above. Lucario has massive versatility, has range on his side, regen is countered by healing, and has Laser Focus to hit the gems.
Also, if Ruby and Sapphire do reform, given they both scale directly to Rubies instead of well above them, Lucario just taps them individually.
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Garnet wouldn't really be rock at all tbh. Sure shes a gem but like, two parts of her is a rock, while her body is hardened light. I'd honestly go with Fighting and Psychic, even though the only aspect of her being psychic is the future vision. even so types wouldn't really make a difference in this fight.
Lucario is naturally a good fighter yeah, but pokemon usually follow their trainers to exceed their potential capability and power. Though Lucario wouldn't be a slouch, that just makes the experience gap even bigger. Martial arts training definitely wont matter with an experience gap that big, as a fusion garnet is exceptional at coordination and controlling her body in unison, so she would easily match, if not overpower Lucario's skill.
Future Vision perhaps with the precognition element of surprise gets countered, but it still doesn't mean Garnet cant anticipate and counter attacks. I would doubt this Lucario has fought anyone quite like Garnet either, so she may be the less predictable one.
Agility is probably one of Lucario's strongest cards here tbh, but for something like Lucario, there is something garnet can use to counter that which ill get to later
Garnet has a wide share of range and versatility too, as well as being fairly dominant in an air game if she needed it with her strong jumps, shapeshifting, electricity manipulation etc. She has also faced a variety of different gem types back in the war which would at least not make her surprised by anything lucario has.
Garnets regen doesn't really have a limit unlike Lucario, whose main weakness here is the fact that Garnet essentially has limitless stamina. Pokemon can still get tired and have a limit to how much moves can be used, represented by PP in games but still have been shown to tire. Garnet even when being poofed can reform from ruby and sapphire, who should both at least be able to avoid lucario for them to do so, as well as it barely taking any time for them. Her gauntlets will protect her gems, and can easily reform back, so i doubt lucario would be able to think up anything to effectively get rid of them. Lucario may get some good speed boosts but it will utterly be useless if he cant finish off an opponent who can keep reforming and has limitless stamina.
Lucario is naturally a good fighter yeah, but pokemon usually follow their trainers to exceed their potential capability and power. Though Lucario wouldn't be a slouch, that just makes the experience gap even bigger. Martial arts training definitely wont matter with an experience gap that big, as a fusion garnet is exceptional at coordination and controlling her body in unison, so she would easily match, if not overpower Lucario's skill.
Future Vision perhaps with the precognition element of surprise gets countered, but it still doesn't mean Garnet cant anticipate and counter attacks. I would doubt this Lucario has fought anyone quite like Garnet either, so she may be the less predictable one.
Agility is probably one of Lucario's strongest cards here tbh, but for something like Lucario, there is something garnet can use to counter that which ill get to later
Garnet has a wide share of range and versatility too, as well as being fairly dominant in an air game if she needed it with her strong jumps, shapeshifting, electricity manipulation etc. She has also faced a variety of different gem types back in the war which would at least not make her surprised by anything lucario has.
Garnets regen doesn't really have a limit unlike Lucario, whose main weakness here is the fact that Garnet essentially has limitless stamina. Pokemon can still get tired and have a limit to how much moves can be used, represented by PP in games but still have been shown to tire. Garnet even when being poofed can reform from ruby and sapphire, who should both at least be able to avoid lucario for them to do so, as well as it barely taking any time for them. Her gauntlets will protect her gems, and can easily reform back, so i doubt lucario would be able to think up anything to effectively get rid of them. Lucario may get some good speed boosts but it will utterly be useless if he cant finish off an opponent who can keep reforming and has limitless stamina.
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The type thing was a joke, bro lol.
The whole "Pokemon are animalistic" thing has been debunked before, man. Alakazam alone disproves it, alongside Oranguru, Metagross, and Lucario himself. Along with Mystery Dungeon as a whole. You're also forgetting that via SBA, Lucario's 1000 years old and has been honing its skills since coming out of the egg. Far from a slouch when it comes to experience.
Pokemon are far more versatile than Gems. Lucario alone has shown more things in versatility than the entirety of what's been shown in the SU verse. Garnet will not have seen Lucario's moveset in battle before. Garnet on the other hand is essentially Hitmonchan with a bit of Gardevoir thrown in. Everything she has, another Pokemon has.
Strong Jumps, Lucario has, as Sky Uppercut has Lucario hitting flying opponents, and most bird Pokemon fly up to the cloud layer. Electricity Manipulation, not that useful, especially when Lucario has more ranged attacks than she does. I honestly can't see a use for Shapeshifting.
PP is game mechanics, first and foremost. Ruby and Sapphire are both fodder to Lucario, and Lucario won't make the same mistake twice by letting the gems come out of it, which is debatable if Lucario would do in the first place as Lucario'd still sense their aura from it and be wary. Lucario doesn't need to affect the gauntlets. He just needs to severely damage Garnet, which he can and will do.
The whole "Pokemon are animalistic" thing has been debunked before, man. Alakazam alone disproves it, alongside Oranguru, Metagross, and Lucario himself. Along with Mystery Dungeon as a whole. You're also forgetting that via SBA, Lucario's 1000 years old and has been honing its skills since coming out of the egg. Far from a slouch when it comes to experience.
Pokemon are far more versatile than Gems. Lucario alone has shown more things in versatility than the entirety of what's been shown in the SU verse. Garnet will not have seen Lucario's moveset in battle before. Garnet on the other hand is essentially Hitmonchan with a bit of Gardevoir thrown in. Everything she has, another Pokemon has.
Strong Jumps, Lucario has, as Sky Uppercut has Lucario hitting flying opponents, and most bird Pokemon fly up to the cloud layer. Electricity Manipulation, not that useful, especially when Lucario has more ranged attacks than she does. I honestly can't see a use for Shapeshifting.
PP is game mechanics, first and foremost. Ruby and Sapphire are both fodder to Lucario, and Lucario won't make the same mistake twice by letting the gems come out of it, which is debatable if Lucario would do in the first place as Lucario'd still sense their aura from it and be wary. Lucario doesn't need to affect the gauntlets. He just needs to severely damage Garnet, which he can and will do.
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Ik
Im not saying theyre animalistic, Lucario is clearly smart, even though those were like the smartest pokemon examples you could think of, and Lucario isnt really prove that hes on par with their intelligences, which are like, abnormally large. Its just that trainers are what direct pokemon most of the time, and lucario is no exception, so it wont exactly be able to think of any extreme strategy we see on trained lucario.
Not forgetting, more or less havent heard of, where has it been stateda Lucario is over 1000 years old? And by SBA, that doesn't exactly mean composite does it? cause Mystery Dungeon and regular Pokemon games are a lot different in terms of power (Grovyle being past Universal etc.), so feats from them that a lucario can do wouldnt really be suited to this version of Lucario which i am assuming is a canon game counterpart.
Cant really assume Lucario has faced those pokemon here, the closest he would have fought based on environment is probably Hitmonchan, but Garnet is definitely a lot more of a technical fighter than full on fledged attack. And while it has access to all these moves, can we really assume a lucario would use most of it over his main fighting moves and aura attacks, its a little too on the whim to assume Lucario would just turn to all these different moves in this fight
Flying to a cloud layer is less impressive than jumping towards it. Where has a sky uppercut in general shown to hit a pokemon beyond the cloud layer anyway, i thought it was essentially a shoryuken, not pseudo-flight. Lucario is neutral to electric attacks, meaning he still cant exactly brush away the electric, heck it might even paralyze him seeing as Pokemon can get that based on electric moves they take. Garnets shapeshifting is essentially elasticity and size control, it would be fairly useful from ranges and avoiding, though to be fair she hasnt really shown it in that aspect.
Yeah, but it still doesnt mean a Pokemon has limitless stamina like Garnet, who doesn't need anything to survive and runs on the energy of her gemstone, which has no real limit to it. You can't severely damage a gem without poofing it tbh, Garnet has shown she can instantly just reform her hands. Whats the AP differences here though too? But Lucario would essentially be pretty exhausted after poofing that of Garnet, only for her to then be able to reform, its merely a matter of Garnet stalling it out.
Im not saying theyre animalistic, Lucario is clearly smart, even though those were like the smartest pokemon examples you could think of, and Lucario isnt really prove that hes on par with their intelligences, which are like, abnormally large. Its just that trainers are what direct pokemon most of the time, and lucario is no exception, so it wont exactly be able to think of any extreme strategy we see on trained lucario.
Not forgetting, more or less havent heard of, where has it been stateda Lucario is over 1000 years old? And by SBA, that doesn't exactly mean composite does it? cause Mystery Dungeon and regular Pokemon games are a lot different in terms of power (Grovyle being past Universal etc.), so feats from them that a lucario can do wouldnt really be suited to this version of Lucario which i am assuming is a canon game counterpart.
Cant really assume Lucario has faced those pokemon here, the closest he would have fought based on environment is probably Hitmonchan, but Garnet is definitely a lot more of a technical fighter than full on fledged attack. And while it has access to all these moves, can we really assume a lucario would use most of it over his main fighting moves and aura attacks, its a little too on the whim to assume Lucario would just turn to all these different moves in this fight
Flying to a cloud layer is less impressive than jumping towards it. Where has a sky uppercut in general shown to hit a pokemon beyond the cloud layer anyway, i thought it was essentially a shoryuken, not pseudo-flight. Lucario is neutral to electric attacks, meaning he still cant exactly brush away the electric, heck it might even paralyze him seeing as Pokemon can get that based on electric moves they take. Garnets shapeshifting is essentially elasticity and size control, it would be fairly useful from ranges and avoiding, though to be fair she hasnt really shown it in that aspect.
Yeah, but it still doesnt mean a Pokemon has limitless stamina like Garnet, who doesn't need anything to survive and runs on the energy of her gemstone, which has no real limit to it. You can't severely damage a gem without poofing it tbh, Garnet has shown she can instantly just reform her hands. Whats the AP differences here though too? But Lucario would essentially be pretty exhausted after poofing that of Garnet, only for her to then be able to reform, its merely a matter of Garnet stalling it out.
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Isn't the 1000 year old lucario the High 6-A one from Mystery of Mew? Pretty sure that doesn't count here, unless I'm wrong on that somehow.
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@Cal
Some Pokémon, like Rhyhorn and Magikarp, are animalistic.
That said Lucario has the mental ability of a human.
Some Pokémon, like Rhyhorn and Magikarp, are animalistic.
That said Lucario has the mental ability of a human.
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Yes the 1000 year old one is from Lucario and the Mystery of Mew and it didnt even have 1000 years of experience as those 1000 years were spent trapped insde a staff
Peppypony
She/Her- 1,861
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IDK cuz I haven't watched that film in years (Cuz I hate the anime sorry). But yeah it does actually say over 1,000 on his profile too. :/The Wright Way said:
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Wow.
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IDK cuz I haven't watched that film in years (Cuz I hate the anime sorry). But yeah it does actually say over 1,000 on his profile too. :/
It really shouldn't though. Probably warrants a CRT.
It really shouldn't though. Probably warrants a CRT.
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Anywho, Garnet FRA.
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As Assalt said, Lucario has the intellect of a human, and an experienced human at that. Lucario can indeed come up with strategies, because that's fully in a mindset of an experienced warrior such as itself.Jinx666 said:
An isolated Grovyle being universal doesn't stop MD from being considered. But yes, more or less composited. Due to SBA, we assume that the Pokemon in question has been extremely lucky in the gene pool and have everything they can naturally get. As people stated, a Lucario has lived to 1000 in M08.
Most Pokemon do fight each other. Often at that. In the wild or otherwise. Most Pokemon would be quite knowledgeable on what a good portion of others can do. Not completely, but they're aware.
Lucario can't fly. Like Garnet, he can just jump good. Paralysis isn't a good argument as that's a property of the Pokemon move. You can't just say every electric attack has a chance of paralyzing a Pokemon. Elasticity would be useful if Lucario didn't have a multitude of long range attacks.
Only way Lucario would outlast Lucario is if she would fight for the entire day, which she won't, because Lucario's stronger than her. Pokemon have insane stamina, scaling from Raticate and Poliwrath. Riolus have feats of going nonstop and entire night to crest three mountains and two valleys, and Lucario is >>>> Riolu. I did mean poofing by severely damaging her, and Lucario just needs to impale her or something, as that was enough for Pearl to be poofed. Again, Garnet's only advantage here is her experience. She can't outlast Lucario long enough for him not to get the killing blow at least once or twice. She's outranged, outpowered, outgunned, outsped (after an Agility), and more. Btw, Garnet scales from being at least 2x a Ruby, which would put her at > 572 MT. Lucario scales from fodderizing Pupitar, which is 531 MT. Lucario fodderizes characters that are barely below what Garnet is, which says a lot.
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So... Lucario FRA.
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@Cal
Well Garnet is at least 2x a Ruby, or at least 572 Megatons. Lucario is an unknown amount over Pupitar, or at least 531 Megatons. While Lucario may be stronger, we don't know by how much. These two are nearly even for the purposes of this fight.
Since both use blunt force attacks, this basically comes down to who is the better fighter or who is more versatile. For Experience, Garnet has this. For Versatility, Lucario dominates. However, in my opinion excess experience will only do so much against someone able to do so much crazy nonsense with his moves.
Lucario should take this the majority of the time, imo.
Well Garnet is at least 2x a Ruby, or at least 572 Megatons. Lucario is an unknown amount over Pupitar, or at least 531 Megatons. While Lucario may be stronger, we don't know by how much. These two are nearly even for the purposes of this fight.
Since both use blunt force attacks, this basically comes down to who is the better fighter or who is more versatile. For Experience, Garnet has this. For Versatility, Lucario dominates. However, in my opinion excess experience will only do so much against someone able to do so much crazy nonsense with his moves.
Lucario should take this the majority of the time, imo.
Peppypony
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Hmmmm.. If Pupitar is 531 MT and a mid evolution. Then why are other mid evolutions listed at Low 7-B? I was also gonna ask about Stats Boosts as well
If we're gonna go by SBA then yeah Lucario's gonna attack Garnet completely out of her range and I doubt she'll get anywhere near him quick enough in order to land a hit.
If we're gonna go by SBA then yeah Lucario's gonna attack Garnet completely out of her range and I doubt she'll get anywhere near him quick enough in order to land a hit.
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The M08 Lucario only lived that long because he was sealed in a staff.
"The only way for Lucario to outlast Lucario" I'm assuming you mean Garnet can't outlast Lucario.
Also, I'd argue they're comparable. Garnet should be more than capable of curb stomping the likes of Pearl and Amethyst, and Pearl one-shots people above the rubies with ease. Although I concede that Lucario is stronger, the gap is still nowhere as big as you're making it seem. At least 2x a Ruby is vastly underselling it.
"The only way for Lucario to outlast Lucario" I'm assuming you mean Garnet can't outlast Lucario.
Also, I'd argue they're comparable. Garnet should be more than capable of curb stomping the likes of Pearl and Amethyst, and Pearl one-shots people above the rubies with ease. Although I concede that Lucario is stronger, the gap is still nowhere as big as you're making it seem. At least 2x a Ruby is vastly underselling it.
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Garnet is faster and has precog that is more than potent enoug to let her avoid the majority of if not all of Licario's attacks
That and she has more than enough range with her shapeshifting to be able to hit him
That and she has more than enough range with her shapeshifting to be able to hit him
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@Peppy
531 Megatons is well into 7-A, so idk. Pokemon scaling is weird.
531 Megatons is well into 7-A, so idk. Pokemon scaling is weird.
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I don't think that answers his question.Assaltwaffle said:
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@Peppy and @Assalt. Pupitar is above average for a 2nd Stage Pokemon which is why the majority don't scale. However, by Pupitar's own words, it's merely a pupal stage. Pupitar is the Kakuna to Tyranitar's Beedril, and Lucario scales to Tyranitar.
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Garnet's speed advantage gets nullified with Agility, and puts her at the speed disadvantage if Lucario uses it again. Garnet's precog didn't even let her avoid all of Jasper's attacks. Lucario can see her movements before she makes them at that, and also reads her mind, so Future Vision is a small boon at best. Her shapeshifting arms are...actually I forgot about them. They're impressive. But they still get outranged by Lucario.WeeklyBattles said:
Peppypony
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How far is Garnet into relativistic? Cuz Lucario can use Agility and if he uses it three times then that'll make him 4x faster I believe.
I'm pretty sure the only thing Garnet does with shapeshifting in combat is when she stretches her arms out. How far away is that? Cuz IK that was what gave her 6-B or something like that. I wonder why the range of that isn't listed on her profile?
I'm pretty sure the only thing Garnet does with shapeshifting in combat is when she stretches her arms out. How far away is that? Cuz IK that was what gave her 6-B or something like that. I wonder why the range of that isn't listed on her profile?
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@Cal
So Pupi doesn't scale because he's a second stage pseudo-Legend? Doesn't that seem like cherry-picking?
So Pupi doesn't scale because he's a second stage pseudo-Legend? Doesn't that seem like cherry-picking?
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@Assalt.
Frankly, I'm all for buffing the Low 7-Bs to 7-A. My Defog calc supports it.
Frankly, I'm all for buffing the Low 7-Bs to 7-A. My Defog calc supports it.
GlaceonGamez471
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Jackal FRA
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@Peppy she can make her arms several hundred meters long
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Garnet is 33%c vs Lucario's 24%
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They start a max of 4 km away, Garnet will be in his range in a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a secondPeppypony said:
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@Weekly
But Lucario will also be able to bound away and start launching aura spheres and quickly passing Garnet's speed with an Agility if he feels threatened.
But Lucario will also be able to bound away and start launching aura spheres and quickly passing Garnet's speed with an Agility if he feels threatened.
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