DMCV Vergil vs Beerus (12-4-0)(Concluded)

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

the DW energy passives shouldnt even be on the physiology page it applies only to 2 people idk why its there tbh

Technically speaking every Demon King has it but only few have shown to use it in character....

Mundus pretty faught Dante in another realm so he did not have to use DW energy...but he could if he was in Demon World...

Void Mundus uses DW energy since he is the DW himself...

Urizen was strapped to the chair of Qlipoth in Human World so he didn't use it.....and it would have been counter productive if humans got soul haxxed and died/corrupted since humans are needed for fruit.

Abigail was never the Demon King to begin with ....he was just thier rival....he was strong but he never had control of DW energy.

 

[Sevil Natas]

also if vergil could sense beerus' power, he'd most likely go SDT which would **** beerus over due to passive fear hax

 

[VinnyXD]

He just needs to pull out the sword a few centimetres and bam the opponent is filled in spatial cuts.....he doesn't even need to sheathe it cuz that comes after the attack has already hit.....

Have you never seen a sword being drawn? He has to reach across/down again I'm voting Vergil but you are forgetting a step.

 

[Naito-desu]

It's not that simple of a movement versus just raising your hand though. Since speeds are equalized, by default by requiring more movement and complexity, it IS slower, what's so hard to understand about that? Have you ever tried to pull out a sword versus just raising your hand, I know I have, and I know which one I can do faster.

Vergil being able to do it fast is meaningless since speeds are equalized.

 

[Sevil Natas]

6. Hakai can't dodge, the momment it is in effect Vergil will be erased

he can avoid it if he TPs to the other side

 

[Sevil Natas]

It's not that simple of a movement versus just raising your hand though. Since speeds are equalized, by default by requiring more movement and complexity, it IS slower, what's so hard to understand about that? Have you ever tried to pull out a sword versus just raising your hand, I know I have, and I know which one I can do faster.

Vergil being able to do it fast is meaningless since speeds are equalized.

you're forgetting the fact that beerus usually says "hakai" in character which would take time

 

[Naito-desu]

you're forgetting the fact that beerus usually says "hakai" in character which would take time

He doesn't need to say hakai to do it lol, that's kind of trying hard to stretch it when hakai is clearly faster than Vergil's sword draw. And he HAS done it without saying a word so that's moot.

 

[Sevil Natas]

He doesn't need to say hakai to do it lol, that's kind of trying hard to stretch it when hakai is clearly faster than Vergil's sword draw. And he HAS done it without saying a word so that's moot.

can do it without saying hakai =/= will do it without saying hakai
in character he says hakai, its that simple, if this is them being serious then Vergil DTs and calls it a day

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

1. Physical attack mean still need to attack, mean movement

Sure the drawing of sword is physical but all Vergil needs to do is take his arm from one side to another and let it loose....though the attack itself is a sphere that is teleported onto the target.

2. Nope, He still need to move his hand to reach to the handle of his sword to perform and he need to take a stance, assuming he could JC instantly mean you know not thing about Vergil.

Moving his hand to operate the sword is common sense.....I need not repeat it....but he does not need to take a "stance".....he can fluidly do the move while in movement and however he wants....just like Dante can shoot E&I wildly however he wants.....thats why I provided the Beowulf and Hell Vanguard videos as proof to demonstrate that it is not rigidly limited to a stance.

3. the first video and second is gameplay mechanic, it is a technique allow player to both JC and animation cancel him to make flashy combo

All of those being intentional and true displays of Virgil's capabilities.....you cannot just roll everything under a rug.....if you are reffering to Perfect Judgment Cut then no its not just a game mechanic....

the 3rd video is he still physically using his sword to attack. the 4th is the same, he attacking physically with his sword

Those were just to show that Vergil is not limited to a stance to use Judgement Cut.

All of the video you post have no worth, it is either CQC or gameplay mechanic, which character reflex depending on player reflex

All gameplay mechanic is intentional....always has been.....and in actuality things in gameplay are actually slowed down in comparison to lore so that player does not get his reflexes overwhelmed.....since player is not a lightspeed superhuman cambion , a player is still a normal human with normal reflexes.

4. He still need to casting, casting need movement

Never denied that.....but those are more minimalist than Beerus's technique

6. Hakai can't dodge, the momment it is in effect Vergil will be erased

After the attack has been issued....as if Vergil cannot aim dodge before it's caste.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Have you never seen a sword being drawn? He has to reach across/down again I'm voting Vergil but you are forgetting a step.

Obviously.....that need not be described( even though I did)....its common sense...

But the action of drawing the sword itself is more faster than Beerus raising his hand to erase....

All Vergil needs to do is pivot his hand to his sword and pull it out a few centimetres.

 

[Naito-desu]

can do it without saying hakai =/= will do it without saying hakai
in character he says hakai, its that simple, if this is them being serious then Vergil DTs and calls it a day

No he doesn't, he literally has done it without saying a word in the show. And saying hakai doesn't delay it anyway. What the **** is this logic you're trying to put out to delay it? His is clearly faster, and you're making mental acrobatics to try and disprove what should be a clear fact.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

No he doesn't, he literally has done it without saying a word in the show. And saying hakai doesn't delay it anyway. What the **** is this logic

Even leaving aside that fact....the effort needed to draw sword for Vergil is lesser and faster than Beerus's technique.....not to mention he can aimdodge it via teleportation.

 

[Naito-desu]

All Vergil needs to do is pivot his hand to his sword and pull it out a few centimetres.

Versus beerus just needing to raise and point his hand at Vergil? Hmm, putting your hand to your sword and then trying to pull the sword versus just raising your hand

 

[Naito-desu]

Even leaving aside that fact....the effort needed to draw sword for Vergil is lesser and faster than Beerus's technique.....not to mention he can aimdodge it via teleportation.

He can't dodge it, if Beerus gets it off, he's literally done, this was also concluded in the Yveltal fight, teleportation doesn't save you, once he gets it off you're done.

 

[Naito-desu]

Again, speeds are equalized, so the effort of raising your hand towards someone is faster putting your hand to your sword and trying to pull it out, no matter how many times you maximize the effort done on Beerus' end and minimize the effort on Vergil's end

 

[Rikimarox2]

Am I missing something here? How is Vergil pulling his sword a few centimeters faster than beerus just raising his hand?

 

[Sevil Natas]

No he doesn't, he literally has done it without saying a word in the show. And saying hakai doesn't delay it anyway. What the **** is this logic

no and no

most GoDs (including beerus) say hakai when they use it, even on his profile it says he utters the words "hakai"
and him saying words AFTER rasing his hand would make it slower

 

[Arcker123]

Hakai gg FRA.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Versus beerus just needing to raise and point his hand at Vergil? Hmm, putting your hand to your sword and then trying to pull the sword versus just raising your hand

Beerus needs to rotate his hand whole 90° to point it and erase....
Vergil needs to just take his hand to his sword but a single feet and draw the sword a few centimeters....

I wonder which is faster.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

He can't dodge it, if Beerus gets it off, he's literally done, this was also concluded in the Yveltal fight, teleportation doesn't save you, once he gets it off you're done.

You might want to look up meaning of "aimdodging".

 

[Naito-desu]

I don't understand how it could be faster, and the kind of logic they're trying to impose here:

Beerus points his hand to someone
Vergil motions his hand to his sword > pulls it out

most GoDs (including beerus) say hakai when they use it, even on his profile it says he utters the words "hakai"

 

[Naito-desu]

Vergil needs to just take his hand to his sword but a single feet and draw the sword a few centimeters....

Hmm yes, which is faster, doing two motions or one? No matter how you slice it, Beerus gets his hakai off faster, because pointing your hand to someone IS faster than moving to your sword and then pulling it out.

 

[sanicspood]

beerus sama fra

 

[Naito-desu]

You might want to look up meaning of "aimdodging".

Yes, but would Vergil even know what Beerus is trying to do? I know he can but I highly doubt he will, especially if Vergil is going for that "ultra fast" sword draw you keep telling me about

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Hmm yes, which is faster, doing two motions or one? No matter how you slice it, Beerus gets his hakai off faster, because pointing your hand to someone IS faster than moving to your sword and then pulling it out.

Sum of two events can be smaller than single entity....when thier total length is lesser.

 

[Vietthai96]

Sure the drawing of sword is physical but all Vergil needs to do is take his arm from one side to another and let it loose....though the attack itself is a sphere that is teleported onto the target.

Moving his hand to operate the sword is common sense.....I need not repeat it....but he does not need to take a "stance".....he can fluidly do the move while in movement and however he wants....just like Dante can shoot E&I wildly however he wants.....thats why I provided the Beowulf and Hell Vanguard videos as proof to demonstrate that it is not rigidly limited to a stance.

All of those being intentional and true displays of Virgil's capabilities.....you cannot just roll everything under a rug.....if you are reffering to Perfect Judgment Cut then no its not just a game mechanic....

Those were just to show that Vergil is not limited to a stance to use Judgement Cut.

All gameplay mechanic is intentional....always has been.....and in actuality things in gameplay are actually slowed down in comparison to lore so that player does not get his reflexes overwhelmed.....since player is not a lightspeed superhuman cambion , a player is still a normal human with normal reflexes.

Never denied that.....but those are more minimalist than Beerus's technique

After the attack has been issued....as if Vergil cannot aim dodge before it's caste.

1. And Beerus just raise his hand or point his finger,

2. He still need to make a laijutsu stance, quick draw and quick sheathing, even in game he need to do it, and there is no cutscene he actually perform JC let alone perform JC in any pose. Beowulf and Hell vanguard is not JC, he just strike them physically and then sheathing his sword in a cool movement, nothing indicated he perform JC in those cutscene

3. Like point 2, and then Perfect JC IS GAMEPLAY MECHANIC, it is the burden of proof is on you that you need to prove he perform JC in those cutscenes

4. Gameplay is gameplay, nothing more, you pull a headcanon there

5. Both need movement, using his right hand to reach the sheath of a sword and then pull and sheathing, need movement, it actually need move input than just raising hand

6....................????

 

[Naito-desu]

Sum of two events can be smaller than single entity....when thier total length is lesser.

Except that it's not? You're clearly exaggerating the speed that Vergil can get his off and massively downplaying the speed that Beerus gets his off. I'm done arguing this with you, I'll let the voters decide on their own ends which is faster, and I'm sure they'll make the right choice.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yes, but would Vergil even know what Beerus is trying to do? I know he can but I highly doubt he will, especially if Vergil is going for that "ultra fast" sword draw you keep telling me about

Experience with similar attacks.....Instinctive reactions, dnager sensing.....and being a naturally evasive character who likes to spam his TP and can use it IN CONJUNCTION WITH JUDGEMENT CUT.

 

[Sevil Natas]

guys dont forget about DT
vergil could probably sense beerus' power since he could sense dantes which has resistance to ESP
if vergil does that he'd probably activate his thought based DT which would give passive fear hax

 

[Naito-desu]

Experience with similar attacks.....Instinctive reactions, dnager sensing.....and being a naturally evasive character who likes to spam his TP and can use it IN CONJUNCTION WITH JUDGEMENT CUT

Whatever, I'm done addressing your points. I've already cast my vote, and made my statements, we're just going in circles at this point. I'll let the rest of the votes do the talking.

 

[Arcker123]

Experience with similar attacks.....Instinctive reactions, dnager sensing.....and being a naturally evasive character who likes to spam his TP and can use it IN CONJUNCTION WITH JUDGEMENT CUT.

Hakai is not some projectile or dodge able attack, it is just beerus raising his hand.

 

[Sevil Natas]

Hakai is not some projectile or dodge able attack, it is just beerus raising his hand.

think you're missing the point there, beerus needs to focus on the thing he's trying erase, Vergil TPing out of sight would probably mess that up

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Beerus needs to rotate his hand whole 90° to point it and erase....
Vergil needs to just take his hand to his sword but a single feet and draw the sword a few centimeters....

I wonder which is faster.

Where did you get the rotating from?

 

[Arcker123]

think you're missing the point there, beerus needs to focus on the thing he's trying erase, Vergil TPing out of sight would probably mess that up

I don't understand how it could be faster, and the kind of logic they're trying to impose here:

?

 

[Vietthai96]

think you're missing the point there, beerus needs to focus on the thing he's trying erase, Vergil TPing out of sight would probably mess that up

He don't need to focus, again, Sindra who is the same GoD like Beerus could instantly vanish an entire city, and Beerus nearly erase a ghost if he not got stomachache

 

[Naito-desu]

It's clear that we disagree anyway and are just splitting hairs, so whatever, you're allowed to think that Beerus' Hakai is slower than Vergil's Soul Manip, it's pointless to argue past that point if we're not going to see eye-to-eye at all.

He don't need to focus, again, Sindra who is the same GoD like Beerus could instantly vanish an entire city, and Beerus nearly erase a ghost if he not got stomachache

Also he killed the ghost, he almost erased Arale if he didn't get a stomachache

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

1. And Beerus just raise his hand or point his finger,

Still slower than Vergil...
Let me give you an example...its like a Gunsliger does Quickdraw but in this case Vergil does not draw his sword out completely but just a few centimeters and BAM.

2. He still need to make a laijutsu stance, quick draw and quick sheathing, even in game he need to do it, and there is no cutscene he actually perform JC letalone perform JC in any pose. Beowulf and Hell vanguard is not JC, he just strike them physically and then sheathing his sword in a cool movement, nothing indicated he perform JC in those cutscene

Doesn't need to....limitations of animation.

3. Like point 2, and then Perfect JC IS GAMEPLAY MECHANIC, it is the burden of proof is on you that you need to prove he perform JC in those cutscenes

OH BOY.....not this "gameplay" arguement....
Vergil has never shown Teleportation in cutscenes....has never used Summoned Swords in cutscenes....all of it gameplay....so by your logic we should discard it??
Dante has never shown teleportation or RoyalGuard abilities in cutscenes so should wrescarp them too??
And no all moves in the OFFICIAL movelist are cannon....its not a glitch.

4. Gameplay is gameplay, nothing more, you pull a headcanon there

Yeah lets discard a official move in the game.

5. Both need movement, using his right hand to reach the sheath of a sword and then pull and sheathing, need movement, it actually need move input than just raising hand

No pulling and sheathing required....only drawing the sword a few centimetres.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Hakai is not some projectile or dodge able attack, it is just beerus raising his hand.

AIMDODGE

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Where did you get the rotating from?

The action of pointing the arm at someone from a standing neutral position requires you to pivot your arm up at your shoulders.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Or you know... Just lift your damn hand?