Did Superman just... (Spoilers for Justice League 25)

[Firestorm808]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DC_Multiverse_worlds Wiki exerp:

The end of the Convergence series resulted in the retroactive saving of the Pre-Crisis DC multiverse. In an interview Jeff King stated, "The battle to save not one, but two multiverses in Convergence provides it" and later states "In Convergence #8 we reference Multiversity and show you some of the Post-Convergence worlds that make up the reconstituted DC Multiverse. In many ways, the number of Worlds is now infinite. There may even be more than one Multiverse." as well as "Post-Convergence, every character that ever existed, in either Continuity or Canon, is now available to us as storytellers.".[188] This leaves open the question of how (or even if) the Pre-Crisis, Hypertime, 52 and post-Flashpoint multiverses interact.

https://comicbook.com/2015/05/27/decoding-convergence-with-jeff-king-the-finale/

So, there may be more than 1 multiverse now, but the Prime Multiverse has about 52..

 

[Owennoctis]

current dc is a omniverse with infinite multiverses confirmed in JL, (the references of hypertime and infinite realities have been mentioned too many times throughout the years this one is the most recent time),

https://imgur.com/hlWTHvB

later issue when they talked about perpetua's origin, the dcu that we known is only one multiverse out of countless others that were created in the 6th dimension.

back on topic superman destroyed the future multiverse confirmed by the artist of this arc, so there's really no argument there

https://imgur.com/7qyPqy7

 

[Firestorm808]

Does the site allow the statements of colorists in this context? It's a similar situation to Derrick J. Wyatt and Ben 10.

https://twitter.com/loquesunalex

https://www.instagram.com/alejandro_sanchez_colorist/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BybFrv3FY8M/ Outside Commentery: "The man himself. The colorist for the JL COMIC 23 confirms that Superman DID crack the 6th dimension and destroy the world forgers masterpiece which is a multiverse ƒñ»he colors all the panels he receives the storyline and things like that, There's absolutely no way he was doing all that coloring and he would be completely oblivious as to what's happening. Stop being stupid and give Superman his credit.ƒñí"

 

[Overloader99]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BybFrv3FY8M/?igshid=1uopwut11vkxk


At this point both the comic and the colorist are confirming that Supes one shotted the Masterpiece which was World Forger's Multiverse

 

[Firestorm808]

Ant, do we have sufficient justification for 2-C Many sun-dipped Superman?

• World Forger says the multiverse was destroyed
• Colorist confirms it was the multiverse
• The replacement for the Prime Multiverse would have about the same universes which is about 52.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Isn't cracking the 6th dimension low 1-C?

 

[Firestorm808]

That's a statement from the colorist, but not told in the comic.

 

[SuperAPM]

I doubt his comments about him cracking the 6th dimension holds much validity, I mean a low 1-C regular Superman regardless of sun dipping would be completely outlandish (and hilarious.)

The forgers new multiverse is just a 4D spacetime continuum contained within the 6th dimension anyway

 

[Overloader99]

The main Multiverse has infinite universes but we've only found out 53 till date.

It's been confirmed in Lois and Clark #1 about the number of universes.

 

[Firestorm808]

Superman: Lois and Clark Vol 1 #1 December 2015 is New 52. In this Comic, Post-Crisis Superman talks about Braniac, the old multiverse, and the Crisis.

 

[Owennoctis]

we use the Morrison's map (Perpetua's creation), we work outwards


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80518/6897136-3014614182-1AxV2.jpg The third dimension is the DC prime multiverse, where most of DC stories take place in. DC is a omniverse consist of infinite multiverses https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80518/6897137-0147744403-Hv5aV.jpg

Outside the third dimension sits the wonderworld, it sits above the third dimension. The perception and scale are already altered in this dimension. This dimension is below the Gods Sphere

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897110-1756701276-Yxd2S.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897111-1181750575-hGcsp.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897112-3483477531-YS39d.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897113-5695697378-lsPzB.jpg

Then we move to Sphere of Gods, the New God Realm for example is a dimensional plane above the third dimension.(looking at the map) it doesn't have a numerical designation or maybe it's a dimension with fractions like Mxy once stated. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/6897117-inf d2.jpg

From the New God's Realm perspective, the prime DC multiverse exists as infinitesimal bubbles.

We know for a fact that New Gods need to shrink in size when they come to the third dimension main multiverse. Darkseid is normal size being in Apokolips, but when his true size came to earth-2 he was the size of a solar system. That's how big and vast New Gods Realm compare to the main multiverse. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897119-7388648201-3FQRG.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897120-6703064712-3HiPn.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897121-0007872617-HLPSv.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897122-6378934925-43891.jpg

hen Darkseid was falling from the New God Realm directly into the 3rd dimension in his completely unaltered/full-scale state(ala Final Crisis), he was described to be as large as the entire multiverse: https://i.imgur.com/X7nlqjQ.jpg "I'm the only one who can see the shadow. This gigantic shadow cast across the multiverse. Falling over everything." Above the Sphere of Gods we have Limbo Realm. This is where they recycle the unused stories and characters, where the infinite book of limbo is kept. (the book of infinite knowledge)

From this realm forward we are entering metatextual concepts https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-6897123

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897124-6269586349-fr9R0.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897125-4705331310-AHleu.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897126-5140915015-AQnZi.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897127-1094174115-r5BrH.jpg


After that, We have the Monitor Realm, this is the fourth dimension, the fourth dimension is literally time itself. To comprehend how big the Monitor Realm is. The entire limbo is the size of Thought Robot's hand. The prime DC multiverse is entirely infinitesimal in comparison.

The Monitors refer to the entire Creation as "germ world". This realm is metatexual in nature where we have manifestation of narrative and highly advanced thought forms. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897129-7065583873-pgmy7.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897130-6800632869-DjYvv.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/6897131-6284471567-iYKMp.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897132-4459893436-ItuUN.jpg

 

[Owennoctis]

Under the Multiverse resides the Dark Multiverse, it's the literal dark reflection of the creation, that's why it's on the other side of the map. This realm is "much older and much vaster than ours. An oceanic, subconscious Realm out tiny multiverse floats on" this metaphor reminds me of the description of Beyond Realm compare to the marvel multiverse, "droplet of water into the ocean"


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897140-5352724264-ZQXKe.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897141-4768331383-KQv5Y.jpg


Beyond this point we will be outside of the Morrison Map. Which means outside Perpetua's creation

The fifth dimension, this dimension is beyond the map. The fifth dimension IS the imagination. Imagination is the source/birth of comic books and stories. This dimension exist outside of time. "it's everything at once, existing backward and forward, simultaneously"

This dimension is metatexual in nature.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/6897147-6719077381-COyjI.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/6897148-4406389583-SEDTg.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/6897149-5370180526-z0b6m.jpg


Then we have the sixth dimension, This realm is even beyond the imagination, the concept of this realm is "multiversal control room" where it spawns the birth and death of infinite multiverses. It's the place where Perpetua created the DC creation we've known today. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80518/6897145-4420890037-apQCg.jpg

https://imgur.com/peLPCkH


Finally we arrive at Primal Monitor/Overvoid. It's debatable whether The Source is the same as the Overvoid. Also we currently do not know the Judges of the Source are residing in the omniverse or the overvoid. (I'm inclined to believe former)

Primal Monitor represents the blank pages of the comic books, it's the medium where the stories are told. So it's metatexual as well. It's so vast that everything in DC omniverse is a microbe in comparison https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/6897150-7945142878-pade1.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897151-5969788146-DkPYy.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897152-8482684690-4wfTl.jpg


Characters who understand what the PM represents become fully aware of their conceptual purpose, that they are just fictional people in a story that someone else is creating, and can actually perceive the "faces staring down at them" which are the readers

If a someone fails to comprehend the Primal Monitor when they are exposed directly to it, they will be unmade at a conceptual level, the idea of said character will be erased https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897153-5708419629-ToyiJ.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897154-8841317928-b6Bi8.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897155-5339234512-Q9Waa.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897157-1612626832-VXnii.jpg


In between these main dimensions that holds the primary structure of DC omniverse, there are infinite numbered of dimensions in DC. Kid Devil has visted the 52nd dimension. Also infinite multiverses beyond the Morrison map within the great DC Omniverse. Hypertime and Metaverses are also introduced in DC. I will explain those terms later https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/6897160-inf d4.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897161-inf d5.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897162-inf di.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80518/6897163-ind d3.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80518/6897164-dimen.jpg


In Conclusion

Primal Monitor>∞ 6th Dimension>∞ 5th DIMENSION>∞ 4th Dimension >∞ Limbo >∞ Gods Sphere >∞ 3rd Dimension infinite dc multiverse

This is the current DC cosmology

 

[Firestorm808]

So what does that mean for a multiverse created in the 6th dimension that will replace a multiverse in the 3rd dimension? Is the Prime Multiverse infinite or not?

 

[Owennoctis]

As far as superman destroying future multiverse. the artist off panel confirmation isn't the only reason I say this

On panel evidence suggested Superman destroyed multiverse per World Forger

https://postimg.cc/3d4VQhrm

"This multiverse is my masterpiece".

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/sp/38783a09059696ce11765686ffe11078/Justice_League_2018-_025-023.jpg

"My masterpiece, you destroyed it".

 

[Firestorm808]

We already accepted that the multiverse was destroyed. What we are debating right now is the size. Is the Prime Multiverse infinite or about 52 universes?

 

[Antvasima]

The main multiverse has 52 or 53 universes.

 

[Firestorm808]

2-C then.

 

[Owennoctis]

We already accepted that the multiverse was destroyed. What we are debating right now is the size. Is the Prime Multiverse infinite or about 52 universes?

Read my above posts, the prime 3rd dimensional multiverse is composed of inifnite universes

scans has been posted

 

[Firestorm808]

Your scans say thet there are 52 Universes in the Prime Multiverse.

Grant's Map: https://i.redd.it/lju2ft2ngck21.jpg

DC Metal: https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/80518/6897140-5352724264-ZQXKe.jpg

 

[Owennoctis]

I'm talking about the most recent confirmation

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80518/6897137-0147744403-Hv5aV.jpg

there's more, rip hunter, the absolute authority as far as dc cosmology goes

https://i.imgur.com/BqX42m4.jpg

 

[Antvasima]

@Owen

The Rip Hunter scan is old unofficial metafictional commentary from the writer, and the Perpetua scan says nothing about the current state of the local multiversal cluster. The official number of local universes is 52.

 

[Firestorm808]

Braniac is talking about the infinite multiverses of the Omniverse/Overvoid.

 

[Tipper17]

So the guy who confirmed it was the colorist not the writer or artist...

 

[Owennoctis]

Braniac is talking about the infinite multiverses of the Omniverse/Overvoid.

right, but they are all part of dcu, the larger omniverse is the entirety of DCU

https://i.imgur.com/INRpFLR.jpg

perpetua's creation is infinite as well, other than the higher scaled dimensions I mentioned earlier, perpetua's creation consist of all the infinite universes from pre-coie

Which was destroyed later, but then BROUGHT BACK after convergence

the morrison map is kinda limited on what's shown of prime universes , that's why he used many question marks for the undetected territories

the infinite universes never went away, hypertime always existed, post crisis or new52. hypertime basically make every published dc stories canon, everything that's writtened not in the main canon, still happened in the multiverse somewhere

https://imgur.com/iPPbjjJ

https://imgur.com/1lteztc

anyway I'm getting off topic

since we need to prove superman destroyed future multiverse is indeed infinite, I remember world forger commented on his new creation being infinite

I'm away from computer right now, I'll fetch scans when I get home

 

[Antvasima]

The World Forger was obviously just going to replace the local multiverse, not the entire omniverse...

 

[Owennoctis]

We already accepted that the multiverse was destroyed. What we are debating right now is the size. Is the Prime Multiverse infinite or about 52 universes?

example from Klario #1: http://i.imgur.com/6GKQP4I.jpg "The multiverse is awesome. An infinity of choice."

Phantom Stranger #4

http://i.imgur.com/QbMM9ME.jpg

PS suspects Elena and his children are lost somewhere in the endless multiverse.

DC New 52 Omniverse Krypton Returns (Action Comics Annual 2)

http://i.imgur.com/FPzp9dp.jpg

More from Krypton Returns

http://i.imgur.com/mitPEgQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/f5pbDB8.jpg

RedHood and the Outlaws

http://i.imgur.com/vT2lUbx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SNCkJBl.jpg

DC New 52 Earth 2 Worlds End #5 MultiverseS

http://i.imgur.com/lRdkfsY.jpg

DC New 52 Larfleeze #5 Infinite Multiverse

http://i.imgur.com/jp1kkN8.jpg

DC New 52 JLD #33 Infinite Multiverse

http://i.imgur.com/amMUZEo.jpg

DC New 52 Terry Sloane Infinite Multiverse

http://i.imgur.com/rcOZGfs.jpg

DC New 52 Earth 2 Worlds End #1 Infinite Multiverse

http://i.imgur.com/gpcPalY.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XHsSx26JL.../s1600/p8_2.jpg

Essentially Infinite realities.

http://shelf-life.ew.com/2015/01/14...sues-exclusive/

"Rip Hunter and the missing Time Masters, who could be their only hope of escape from this apocalypse for Infinite Earths!"


Post crisis, DC never really stopped being a multiverse. Metron himself(another chief authority on DC cosmology) directly referenced the multiverse in JSA #13:

http://i.imgur.com/494G9hX.jpg

And Spectre alluded to a multiverse(and beyond) during the Emperor Joker arc:
http://i.imgur.com/l66l0LZ.jpg

Back to hypertime

Hypertime was essentially the canonization of every universe/dimension/timeline that has, or will, ever exist throughout DC's history(which is what the basis of Convergence seems to be, yes.) Hence why we saw pre and post-Crisis universes, as well as alternate dimensions, in the Hypertime splash-page:

http://i.imgur.com/SQI5WaA.jpg

Rip then went on to explain the general concept of Hypertime:


http://i.imgur.com/YDYeYu5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WcCndoa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oaGwFrq.jpg

Hypertime was so vast/overwhelming, in fact, that Matthew Ryder(a Linear Man who spends his time roaming the timestream) couldn't even handle briefly gazing upon it:
http://i.imgur.com/noVXxgx.jpg

 

[Revan_Laha]

Alejandro Sanchez,the colorist, just said this

 

[Antvasima]

Well, then sun-dipped Superman should be upgraded to 2-C. It is easily his most impressive feat ever post-Crisis.

 

[Spinoirr]

Damn

 

[Antvasima]

Are the rest of you fine with if I upgrade him accordingly?

 

[Spinoirr]

Also why 2-C?

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

OH you want me to do it for you?! Sorry lol. I was just busy.

No problem. Have you edited the Maxwell page now?

No I thought you'll have a problem but I will now

 

[Elizio33]

@Antvasima Shouldn't suns-dipped Superman be higher since he cracks the Sixth Dimension?


In this scan, Future Lois Lane stated that the World Forger created countless universes.

Maybe Suns-Dipped Superman should be 2-B likely higher?

 

[SuperAPM]

2-C is only up to 1000 spacetime continuum's or whatever, there's only supposed to be 52 universes in the prime multiverse, tho I might be able to find something that suggests an even bigger number

 

[SuperAPM]

I don't think we should take the 6D statements seriously and just leave it in the 4D range

 

[SuperAPM]

Antvasima

I think we're all good for you to upgrade him

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, the World Forger's multiverse was supposed to replace the regular 52 ones.

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

Puts on wank hat

Well ackchyually, Forger wanted to replace Perpetua's entire creation to fool the Judges, so Superman is clearly 1-B.

 

[Antvasima]

I have updated the page to 2-C.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

So if Superman actually kills Manhattan what will happen to his ratings? Because people are saying he's being amplified by Mr Mxy and 5D energy etc.