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Number 1 and 2, about Trish and Nevan, they have cloud to ground lightning feats in cutscenes and/or in gameplay
See right here at 32:16 for Trish's feat
See right here at 32:16 for Trish's feat
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Devil May Cry Downgrade #1: Speed Edition
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
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Yes, the lightning reached him, that's why the game registered it as a block and you see Dante's Just Block guard tighten as the bolts hits. Those three bangs you hear are Dante blocking 3 lightning strikes in quick succession by perfectly pressing the RG button 3 times.
I would say the white particle beams remaining are the graphical glitch as the cutscene shows the beam was already discharged and so the beam appearing out of thin air is to show that the beam was discharged.
No, because the cutscenes prior literally show the beam was already fired and the beam not shooting from Mundus' head instead, appearing in mid-air head proves the intent of the cutscene is to show Dante reacting to the beam.
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That's just your opinion directly contradicted with actual proof. Dante "reacting" could might as well be dramatic effect considering if we took it literally the beam would've already been in his face not leaving Mundus's face as the proof directly shows.
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>actual proof
Such as what? You're personal opinion that goes against what the scene is obviously attempting to show?
>Beam fired
>Pov shot of the camera rushing towards the Dante who turns his head
>Shot behind Dante showing the beam appearing mid air rushing towards Dante who is looking at it.
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The screenshots I've shown multiple times. You haven't provided anything besides your opinion that's directly contradicted by the game itself.
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@EFÍTÉ
2. Yeah but as I'm discussing with dienomite those aren't any good either.
3. I say the scan used are flawed and don't give a rating. If you can give me good scans go ahead. I just gotta love the "your whole argument is that the scans for the feat don't give a speed rating" statement like I'm making the bad arguments here.
5. The entire point flew right over your head here.....
@Dante_Demon_Killah I already talked about nevan. As for trish that was used as a means of travel so I doubt trish was located in the clouds before that, but ill wait for more people's opinion on that one.
@Dienomite22
>blocks 3 consecutive lightning strikes
LMAO. No that is just the lightning having 3 separate hit boxes. Similar to saviour's energy beam in dmc4.
>the particles were the glitch
Yeah not really, the beam gets clearly longer, that doesn't happen unless it hadn't been fired.
@EFÍTÉ Throw the feats here so we can see and evaluate them.
2. Yeah but as I'm discussing with dienomite those aren't any good either.
3. I say the scan used are flawed and don't give a rating. If you can give me good scans go ahead. I just gotta love the "your whole argument is that the scans for the feat don't give a speed rating" statement like I'm making the bad arguments here.
5. The entire point flew right over your head here.....
@Dante_Demon_Killah I already talked about nevan. As for trish that was used as a means of travel so I doubt trish was located in the clouds before that, but ill wait for more people's opinion on that one.
@Dienomite22
>blocks 3 consecutive lightning strikes
LMAO. No that is just the lightning having 3 separate hit boxes. Similar to saviour's energy beam in dmc4.
>the particles were the glitch
Yeah not really, the beam gets clearly longer, that doesn't happen unless it hadn't been fired.
@EFÍTÉ Throw the feats here so we can see and evaluate them.
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Okay, sure.
No, the lightning flashes three times each time. If it were one strike there would be no three separate flashes that cover the entire screen. And if Dante is fast enough to Just Block one lightning bolt three times that has already engulfed his body I'm pretty sure that's more impressive than reacting to 3 different lightning bolts in quick succession.
Not necessarily as it depends on the effect used. You're saying they went through the trouble of showing the beam getting longer as a way of showing that the beam was fired from Mundus in that cutscene but for some reason, they also decided to ignore actually making the beam shoot out from Mundus' head.
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ok so i made an analysis over the video. watching it in 3% speed. and it still doesnt show us proper evidence to dismiss it IMO.
here are the screenshots along with my arguements
here are the screenshots along with my arguements
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The beam being invisible doesn't prove that it was fired before hand. That doesn't even make any sense. Not to mention you can clearly see even in your own screen shots that the beam is expanding, which wouldn't happen if it was already fired.
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yeah it doesnt make any sense since it was apparently a graphical issue according to earl. but that doesnt change the fact that it was fired from mundus' forhead. and yes it would prove it, since it would prove that the actual beam traveled a bit before dante was shown to react. not to mention the inconsistency between the lighting, if you look at mundus' forhead when he fired the thing it was bright but in the cut where dante deflects it wasnt.
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The beam is expanding because it's a different effect that is slower compared to the other effect shown when Mundus fires the beam prior times.
If you believe that the beam is expanding because the developers wanted to show that the beam was fired from Mundus' head during that cutscene then why would the developers make the beam appear in mid-air? Why would the developers show the beam firing in the before? Why would the devs show a pan shot rushing towards Dante after the beam is fired? That is what doesn't make sense.
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They didn't make it on purpose, it's obviously graphical limitation on frames.
Dramatic effect? The most obvious reason? Because by this logic the beam would've already been in Dante's face not going out of Mundus's face if we follow the "zoom in" logic.
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Here you can see Nevan summoning Lighting Cloud to Ground at 1:20 and 2:50
And also here at 2:07 (note, the moment the floor gets electrified is the same moment the lighting strikes the ground, and the lighting is Cloud to Ground).
''Here, Dante manages to Royal Guard the Rook's laser, but when you slow the video down, you can clearly see that Dante is already in a blocking position before the laser has even started. Which means that it simply does not scale, Dante does not outpace the laser, he outpaces the Rook's movement speed (as he's the one setting up the laser attack). I think this is a pretty straightforward explanation for why it doesn't scale.'' Uhh you really going to ignore your own argument ? You using the excuse of being gameplay mechanic wrong, there is zero problems when it makes sense, and when comes to gameplay, what the player does is acceptable to Dante (and is even more acceptable when Dante pretty much fodders everyone), Royal Guard perfectly the laser at any distance wont matter, since perfectly Royal Guard only happen when the attack is about to hit / point blank, again you ignored all those points, and your the entire argument is literally because of scans and gameplay, so how i am the one trying to make your argument bad lol.
''5. The entire point flew right over your head here.....''
So why one of your points is also saying is a outlier because ''at best is Hight hypersonic and sub-relativistic''
Still, you right about the assumption anyway.
About Trish, Dante-Kun is right because both Trish and Blitz does throw Lighting at the protagonists and they are capable of reacting the lighting..
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About dante reflecting the beam from mundus.
The only ''Dramatic effect'' is Dante reflecting the beam, and to reflect it, would require dante reacting pretty quickly, something that he does. So doenst really matter feat wise where the beam did come from (calc wise yes, but still, the point still stands).
The only ''Dramatic effect'' is Dante reflecting the beam, and to reflect it, would require dante reacting pretty quickly, something that he does. So doenst really matter feat wise where the beam did come from (calc wise yes, but still, the point still stands).
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It's nice to know standards have lowered so much that saying a feat is "dramatic effect" is considered an argument now.
By the way, Hi all. I'm back.
:^)
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1. High Hypersonic needed an update, that's fine.
2. You forget Griffon summoning CtG lightning from a thunderstorm in his boss fight, Trish moving as bolts of lightning, and over half of Nevan's arsenal of attacks. MHS+ stays via pure volume of feats.
3. Your argument using game mechanics as a basis in the first line spells out that you don't have any idea what you're talking about here. But don't worry, I'll ignore that bit.
Tony did not manage to achieve a perfect block on the Rook. This is to be expected, the timing for a royal block is a mere handful of frames. However, Royal Blocks parry an attack "right as it hits you". This is literal: right as an attack hits you, Dante has to have completed his initial start up animations and have just entered the blocking stance in order to successfully parry the attack. In other words, a Royal Block means Dante 1. Cannot have time to prep, 2. Cannot set up hsi defenses beforehand, and 3. Must react to the attack as it lands. It is possible to Royal Block every move in the game, including this one. The issue is, Royal Blocks are actually insanely difficult to pull off in DMC3. This is not Tony's fault; but the error lies in it not being a perfect block.
As for the jump: Dante can avoid beams from the demonic chess pieces when the room is filled with them, and he is being swarmed by other enemies. They do not make noticeable sounds on attack, yet Dante can effortlessly dodge every attack from them, even when it is shot from behind him, when he is running in the opposite direction, or when being attacked.
The fact that you, again, try to nitpick things (Specifically the frame data here) to ignore basic logic astounds me. Within the game, Dante can dodge them. That is all there is to it. Nitpicking frames will reveal that, yes, they didn't expect humans to actually react to light speed, because it is impossible to do so. But using this as the crux of your argument is foolish.
4. This has already been covered, but Dante reacted to and flared his power after the beam would have hit him. In other words, he put up a barrier as it was about to hit his face. He even looks towards the ground before he is shot, and turns to face Mundus when it is fired.
5. This is understandable.
I would also like to take a small deal of time to call something out: You had 3 admins instantly respond with approval before anyone had spoken a single argument and before any knowledgeable had time to respond, and one more approving without argument or reasoning. Within minutes of posting. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but this reeks of corruption and nepotism. Especially as DDM is not only not knowledgeable on the verse, and Matthew and Weekly are active detractors of the verse.
2. You forget Griffon summoning CtG lightning from a thunderstorm in his boss fight, Trish moving as bolts of lightning, and over half of Nevan's arsenal of attacks. MHS+ stays via pure volume of feats.
3. Your argument using game mechanics as a basis in the first line spells out that you don't have any idea what you're talking about here. But don't worry, I'll ignore that bit.
Tony did not manage to achieve a perfect block on the Rook. This is to be expected, the timing for a royal block is a mere handful of frames. However, Royal Blocks parry an attack "right as it hits you". This is literal: right as an attack hits you, Dante has to have completed his initial start up animations and have just entered the blocking stance in order to successfully parry the attack. In other words, a Royal Block means Dante 1. Cannot have time to prep, 2. Cannot set up hsi defenses beforehand, and 3. Must react to the attack as it lands. It is possible to Royal Block every move in the game, including this one. The issue is, Royal Blocks are actually insanely difficult to pull off in DMC3. This is not Tony's fault; but the error lies in it not being a perfect block.
As for the jump: Dante can avoid beams from the demonic chess pieces when the room is filled with them, and he is being swarmed by other enemies. They do not make noticeable sounds on attack, yet Dante can effortlessly dodge every attack from them, even when it is shot from behind him, when he is running in the opposite direction, or when being attacked.
The fact that you, again, try to nitpick things (Specifically the frame data here) to ignore basic logic astounds me. Within the game, Dante can dodge them. That is all there is to it. Nitpicking frames will reveal that, yes, they didn't expect humans to actually react to light speed, because it is impossible to do so. But using this as the crux of your argument is foolish.
4. This has already been covered, but Dante reacted to and flared his power after the beam would have hit him. In other words, he put up a barrier as it was about to hit his face. He even looks towards the ground before he is shot, and turns to face Mundus when it is fired.
5. This is understandable.
I would also like to take a small deal of time to call something out: You had 3 admins instantly respond with approval before anyone had spoken a single argument and before any knowledgeable had time to respond, and one more approving without argument or reasoning. Within minutes of posting. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but this reeks of corruption and nepotism. Especially as DDM is not only not knowledgeable on the verse, and Matthew and Weekly are active detractors of the verse.
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royalguard's thing is if you react to the attack on time you negate all damage so dante can react to the rook laser plus he can doge them as well
with mundus we see him shoot his particle beam first then dante turns around to deflect it so he did react to it
with mundus we see him shoot his particle beam first then dante turns around to deflect it so he did react to it
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it seems like no 1 ppl agree.
But imma side with knight on 2-5. Lightning users is smth dante has fought, royal guard needs to be frame perfect to negate all the damage and he was looking at trish then looked up to react to the laser along with the fact that only the god tiers scale to the mundus flying feat and as ppl noted doesn't break the scaling
But imma side with knight on 2-5. Lightning users is smth dante has fought, royal guard needs to be frame perfect to negate all the damage and he was looking at trish then looked up to react to the laser along with the fact that only the god tiers scale to the mundus flying feat and as ppl noted doesn't break the scaling
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I was going to type up a more extensive post, but Knight of Sunlight pretty cleanly stated what needed to be stated. Probably in far less words than I would have put it, too.
Also, let me bring up one major thing:
"however Nevan never uses lightning attacks against Dante, or at least not as one would assume from the wording."
What does this even mean..? Nevan's entire gimmick as a boss fight is that literally almost everything in their moveset is lightning based. Around 90% of all of their moves are based around lightning, and while some of them would be questionable on their own, there's more than enough that's already been stated to suggest it as regular lightning. Anyone who has actually played the game knows this. Yet you based your entire argument around one single attack Nevan can use, assumed that was what was being referred to, and then based your entire argument around why that particular attack wasn't valid.
Also, let me bring up one major thing:
"however Nevan never uses lightning attacks against Dante, or at least not as one would assume from the wording."
What does this even mean..? Nevan's entire gimmick as a boss fight is that literally almost everything in their moveset is lightning based. Around 90% of all of their moves are based around lightning, and while some of them would be questionable on their own, there's more than enough that's already been stated to suggest it as regular lightning. Anyone who has actually played the game knows this. Yet you based your entire argument around one single attack Nevan can use, assumed that was what was being referred to, and then based your entire argument around why that particular attack wasn't valid.
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Ugh, these arguments.... I'll reply tomorrow. But I just am amazed at how y'all argue "that is just Tony messing up the block" when he actually didn't, he royal blocks that one. Just keep that in mind.
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Also my man legit called "corruption" on the admins agreeing with me. Kek
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He actively told us, in the video description, that he messed up the blocks.
However, you still are attempting to use absurd arguments like frame data to disprove actual feats. Dante can dodge and block these lasers, even from point blank range, and while turned around or fighting something else. At the worst, he would be Relativistic on that fact alone.
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KOS's and Grath's points make sense to me.
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I called bullshit on two active detractors of the verse, one of which does not even pretend to be knowledgeable and both being extremely controversial figures, immediately responding to your thread before any knowledgeable had been alerted or even knew about the thread.
They have also responded with no reasoning at all, and only one discussion mod has even bothered to actually debate.
Corruption may be too strong a word, I can admit, but this reeks of horseshit, pardon my language.
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I heavily agree with KOS's and Grath's points.
I going to give my opnion about Dante reflecting Mundus Beam of light (while i do agree with KOS point).
The game makes clear that Mundus fire's his beam and in the next cutscene is showed Dante turning is head to deflect the beam of light, the problem comes when the next cutscene doesnt make clear so lets go with context.
Both cutscenes makes clear, that Mundus fired is beam before dante even turned is head, so dante isnt looking at mundus before the beam is fired, the third cutscene requires alot of attention from the viewer, you can notice the beam is frozen mid air when dante turning is head and them the beam comes at dante, the third cutscene makes the feat not clear visualy, and still the context says: Mundus fires is beam of light, Dante turns is head and deflect it.
I going to give my opnion about Dante reflecting Mundus Beam of light (while i do agree with KOS point).
The game makes clear that Mundus fire's his beam and in the next cutscene is showed Dante turning is head to deflect the beam of light, the problem comes when the next cutscene doesnt make clear so lets go with context.
Both cutscenes makes clear, that Mundus fired is beam before dante even turned is head, so dante isnt looking at mundus before the beam is fired, the third cutscene requires alot of attention from the viewer, you can notice the beam is frozen mid air when dante turning is head and them the beam comes at dante, the third cutscene makes the feat not clear visualy, and still the context says: Mundus fires is beam of light, Dante turns is head and deflect it.
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Neutral for now
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ok just to elobrate on KOS' 4th arguement, i've anaylised the video again, and he's right, he did put up some sort of barrier
as we can see here the beam starts getting distorted by something right before "hitting" dante
then about some milisecs later
a small explosion appears in front of dantes head this indicates that the beam hit something that's not dante himself, if it hit dante that explosion would've overlapped with dante's head making it hard to see, and also if you look at the beginning of the explosion it doesnt start in the center of dante's head it starts abit on the side of it also the fact that the beam randomly got distorted by something mid-air then a few frames later, an explosion appears with no clear indication that it hit dante. so with all of this we can conclude that yes dante did put up a barrier
as we can see here the beam starts getting distorted by something right before "hitting" dante
then about some milisecs later
a small explosion appears in front of dantes head this indicates that the beam hit something that's not dante himself, if it hit dante that explosion would've overlapped with dante's head making it hard to see, and also if you look at the beginning of the explosion it doesnt start in the center of dante's head it starts abit on the side of it also the fact that the beam randomly got distorted by something mid-air then a few frames later, an explosion appears with no clear indication that it hit dante. so with all of this we can conclude that yes dante did put up a barrier
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I strongly agree with Ogbu and Earl, they are by far making the most sense here.
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Just would like to drop in and say that a fair few messages here reek of bad intentions, from staff and non-staff alike. Don't be foolish y'all, bias has no place in a proper CRT. Shall be spectating this one for now.
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I have to say, without naming any names (Though lets face it anybody familiar with these threads know exactly who I am speaking too), the fact that we have people with biased fueled opinions even as staff members is genuinely disappointing, we are trusted with having a neutral thought on revisions and thread. You may not like everyone and everything, that's fine and normal, but if you're letting that dictate your decision over legitimacy, come on.
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I going to clarify how Royal Guard works, for those who dont know how it works.
Royal Guard is a defensive style that have 5 abilities, but when comes to feat speed only one abilitie is relevant.
Royal Block: This block is reaction based and can only be used when a attack is about to hit, and makes a diferent and exclusive sound when Royal Block happens, so it cant be confused with normal block, according to DMC 4 Guide which includes the game description from the game, it says to block at the last second before hitting you, yes i using DMC 4 because i dont have DMC 3 description in the moment, and there is 0 problems using DMC 4 statement since DMC 3 Royal Block works on the same way.
I recommend this video where it explains everything about royal guard
Like the video said, everything can be Royal Blocked, and this grants a huge relevancy to the thread since:
1: Dante can block all Nevan's attack which includes two cloud to ground attacks (one being a AoE)
2: Dante can block the lasers.
Royal Guard is a defensive style that have 5 abilities, but when comes to feat speed only one abilitie is relevant.
Royal Block: This block is reaction based and can only be used when a attack is about to hit, and makes a diferent and exclusive sound when Royal Block happens, so it cant be confused with normal block, according to DMC 4 Guide which includes the game description from the game, it says to block at the last second before hitting you, yes i using DMC 4 because i dont have DMC 3 description in the moment, and there is 0 problems using DMC 4 statement since DMC 3 Royal Block works on the same way.
I recommend this video where it explains everything about royal guard
Like the video said, everything can be Royal Blocked, and this grants a huge relevancy to the thread since:
1: Dante can block all Nevan's attack which includes two cloud to ground attacks (one being a AoE)
2: Dante can block the lasers.
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Make some comment latter on.
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I will reply to whatever was said here in these past 2 days later.
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I think everyone has an opinion on something it's not like the staff members were the only ones who agreed. I think you're making a much bigger deal than necessary out of this.
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Reading through the thread, I agree with KOS' points. Royal blocking as a whole is a reaction based technique where you need to time the move properly to counter an attack, and anyone who's seen a lot of high level DMC play on the internet would know that perfect blocking any attacks from normal enemies to the bosses in DMC 3-5 with royal guard is possible. Hard, but possible.
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