Dante's Immeasurable justifications

[HammerStrikes219]

Also yeah, kinda doesn’t help when there is a cinematic cut after he got his arm back and wings as well.

Regardless though, I think this is his Devil Trigger form more specifically anyway

 

[SuperSonicTL]

The fact we even having this debate is peak.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I can't think of many examples right now, but for the one I mentioned, yeah, it straight up uses 超越 for flying thunder God, his infamous space time teleportation jutsu.

To note though its based on 時空 which space-time. But Argosax is different as its not 時空 but 時間や距離 which is time and distance so it's not 1 for 1. So I'm not super sure if that's a good example because the thing that is being "transcended" are different.

 

[Ningenron]

Moot point; my example is just showcasing how 超越 can be used figuratively to reference teleportation.

Nit-picking 'distance' and 'space' means nothing since both statements particularly mean the same thing.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I agree with the OP. How the hell did this pass?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I agree with the OP. How the hell did this pass?

That's the neat part: It didn't, it simply got snuck in

 

[Deagonx]

So what still needs to be done here?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So what still needs to be done here?

Find what lower speed feat to put on the profiles, since infinite got disagreed too (I myself can only support a possibly rating at best based on current evidence)

 

[Deagonx]

Fine what lower speed feat to put on the profiles, since infinite got disagreed too (I myself can only support a possibly rating at best based on current evidence)

Someone linked an accepted blog of an MFTL feat which I'm fine with in absence of a better option

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Someone linked an accepted blog of an MFTL feat which I'm fine with in absence of a better option

That one is pretty old and doesn't seems to have been updated with ridiculous scaling chain of now. But I suppose it could work fine as an alternative at the end.

 

[Deagonx]

That one is pretty old and doesn't seems to have been updated with ridiculous scaling chain of now. But I suppose it could work fine at the end.

I'm sure there are better options, but we'll get bogged down debating the best replacement.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Someone linked an accepted blog of an MFTL feat which I'm fine with in absence of a better option

Good enough

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Based the evidence provided I agree with Infinite speed being bunk. MFTL seems like a fine replacement for now.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I believe Agnaa and DMUA had issues with the calc on page 3.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I believe Agnaa and DMUA had issues with the calc on page 3.

Huh? They do?

 

[BitestDust]

When I posted this thread to the chat where we usually discuss powerlevels, two DMS fans got really mad at ME, even though one of them is on this forum and could have made a few posts about why it's impossible to remove immeasurable speeds. Now one of them promised to show me all the necessary evidence... here's what I got:

In this context, 瞬間移動 is used as an instant [瞬間 ]
transfer [移動 ] of kaiji to teleport if it were really used as a teleport -

テレポート

Because the context ****** up the transcendence of atemporality, in the first text it is a move, the second is a teleport

I've removed some of the insults, specifically almost half of the text, but I think the point is clear. What do you think about this argument?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Huh? They do?

Check page 3, unless I’m mistaken.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

When I posted this thread to the chat where we usually discuss powerlevels, two DMS fans got really mad at ME, even though one of them is on this forum and could have made a few posts about why it's impossible to remove immeasurable speeds. Now one of them promised to show me all the necessary evidence... here's what I got:



I've removed some of the insults, specifically almost half of the text, but I think the point is clear. What do you think about this argument?

Lol. Yeah the Argo's feat description is a whole mess, could mean either at the end of the day depending on the context. I do wanna lean towards immeasurable but if others don't want to then I couldn't say anything into the matter... Should've been there when this speed discussion was happening in the CRT but it is what it is. Can't really help here now since the cat is out of the bag.

 

[Hellformer]

If Agnaa and DMUA disagree with the calc then we can go via multipliers which result in MFTL (126c) as max speed and it has even been used in Dante's profile

DMC Speed Mults

vsbattles.fandom.com

So unless and until someone recalcs the Dante vs Mundus feat, we use this instead.
Thoughts? @Deagonx @LephyrTheRevanchist @Agnaa

 

[Agnaa]

Here is it, there did a timer at the start of mission 19 where Dante at the top of the Demon Tree and yapping with Vergil for a while before they start fighting, the day is irrelevant cause both mission is 15th of June, what matter is the hour, mission 19 start at 04:04 PM. Later after finishing the battle or the first rough they start yapping about the past and do staring contest before again jumping in for rough two. Scene changed into mission 20 (time stamp is 07:12) focused on Nero, there is another timer, 04:27 PM, Nero phone called his girlfriend, get some emotional advise from her, then yapping about couldn't save this and that, etc... and then starting to powering up to fly to the top of the tree, where Dante and Vergil fighting to stop them.

Now we can see that the timer moved about 20 mins so we can say that Vergil and Dante battle took 20 mins, but there are two things

1. Dante and Vergil both yapping at the start and at the end of their battle

2. In the cinematic cutscene, when Nero start powering up, the scene where Vergil and Dante start charged at each other is also show in parallel. Indicated that when Nero did his phone call, Vergil and Dante also charging at each for the second round, and Nero catched them

So kinda, to be fair, the feat itself is kinda ambiguous and up in the air, but if i'm being honest, it do have some ground against Immeasurable speed, depend on how you view it. This is assumed that we do not reject Agrosax statement and currently treating major characters involved have immeasurable speed, for the sake of discussion. If Agrosax statement is rejected then all this cinematic cutscene is irrelevant

On a side note, Nero is completely irrelevant (dead weight) in this discussion, cause he only get Immeasurable speed after awakening his demonic power, timer is irrelevant cause he has finite speed before this

There is also Special Edition which have slightly different cutscene for the last battle between Vergil and Dante, but iirc, there is only the same timer for mission 19 which is Dante start yapping at Vergil face before they fight, no more timer after cause Dante and Vergil jumped straight for second rough, Nero is nowhere to be found and only appear after the second rough end

There comment is long so i apologize

The yapping and other messing around makes it hard to attribute all of that time to fighting, so I'm not confident with calling it an anti-feat.

Someone linked an accepted blog of an MFTL feat which I'm fine with in absence of a better option

I mentioned earlier that I think this calc has an issue with cinematic timing (the cut obscures part of their flight, so we can't use the IRL time we see to apply to the whole flight distance), and I don't understand the assumption behind the MFTL end, only the FTL end.

DMUA wasn't so sure about the cinematic timing point, but did agree about MFTL vs FTL.

When I posted this thread to the chat where we usually discuss powerlevels, two DMS fans got really mad at ME, even though one of them is on this forum and could have made a few posts about why it's impossible to remove immeasurable speeds. Now one of them promised to show me all the necessary evidence... here's what I got:


I've removed some of the insults, specifically almost half of the text, but I think the point is clear. What do you think about this argument?

I don't understand it.

If Agnaa and DMUA disagree with the calc then we can go via multipliers which result in MFTL (126c) as max speed and it has even been used in Dante's profile

DMC Speed Mults

vsbattles.fandom.com

So unless and until someone recalcs the Dante vs Mundus feat, we use this instead.
Thoughts? @Deagonx @LephyrTheRevanchist @Agnaa

While I find a few steps there weird, the overall thing is supported by the screenshots provided.

However, I'm a bit suspicious of using Bradygames guides like that. Strategy guides for games are often written without real vetting from the story-writers. Do we know that DMC's ones are reliable?

 

[Livinmeme]

Infinite (grants access to the powers of the Ripper, who can travel across the infinite Demon World in a day

 

[Robo432343]

Infinite (grants access to the powers of the Ripper, who can travel across the infinite Demon World in a day

these poc scans are not allowed

but ppl forgot about the profile so they it hasn't been removed yet i think

if there is proof the scan is from 1.0 then it can be used

 

[Livinmeme]

poc 1.0 scans are not allowed

but ppl forgot about the profile so they it hasn't been removed yet

Dangit, I mean, there is still the possibility of the infinite statement being in POC 1.0+

 

[Robo432343]

i was going to send the pluto immeasurable speed feat but it was confirmed the scan is not allowed

 

[Ningenron]

Ain't these scans fake or something.

 

[Robo432343]

Ain't these scans fake or something.

its either they are fake or highly likely they are fake

 

[Vietthai96]

Infinite (grants access to the powers of the Ripper, who can travel across the infinite Demon World in a day

The loading screen scans is fake, idk about weapon description scan, though i think those are fine cause the manga already stated Demon Realm to be infinite so those PoC weapon description scan is just nice supplement

still PoC China server going to be shut down at the end of this year so it is irrelevant to the discussion, unless we have Global scans as back up

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Dangit, I mean, there is still the possibility of the infinite statement being in POC 1.0+

There is but unless someone look into the game files for it, there is no use of reminiscing it

 

[Hellformer]

The grace period is over so it can be applied if I'm not mistaken

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I feel like its a bit difficult on how to interpret the transcending part. On one hand I can see why as Minato's part does throw a wrench in it. On the other hand, the despair embodiment is characterized by its swift movements which would imply its specialty is simply moving that fast until it "transcended" those elements don't seem out of the question. Maybe a possible rating is what I think and whatever we have for DMC but idk. I'm not really gonna do much just suggesting it.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I feel like its a bit difficult on how to interpret the transcending part. On one hand I can see why as Minato's part does throw a wrench in it. On the other hand, the despair embodiment is characterized by its swift movements which would imply its specialty is simply moving that fast until it "transcended" those elements don't seem out of the question. Maybe a possible rating is what I think and whatever we have for DMC but idk. I'm not really gonna do much just suggesting it.

I perhaps possibly would take a deep look later into the future on the matter but now it's on mods to decide what to do and I don't have time for this stuff.

However a possible rating wouldn't really hurt tho because FTL rating sounds soo cringe on the profiles personally speaking

 

[Ningenron]

Giving a possible rating for something that is as vague as imaginable and has no actual reliable feats is kind of funky, don't you think so?

 

[Drite77]

I perhaps possibly would take a deep look later into the future on the matter but now it's on mods to decide what to do and I don't have time for this stuff.

However a possible rating wouldn't really hurt tho because FTL rating sounds soo cringe on the profiles personally speaking

I personally think Immesurable speed is cringe but that's just me '-'

 

[Huesito88]

I perhaps possibly would take a deep look later into the future on the matter but now it's on mods to decide what to do and I don't have time for this stuff.

However a possible rating wouldn't really hurt tho because FTL rating sounds soo cringe on the profiles personally speaking

Are you saying immeasurable speed doesn't sound cringe?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Are you saying immeasurable speed doesn't sound cringe?

So do tier 2 in general yet we cope with it everyday I'm just taking a less cringier option here.

 

[RedReaper616]

I'm confused. This seems pretty straightforward. The translation used is incorrect, (at least, if it actually is incorrect), and thus it should be axed.

 

[Golden_Void]

As far as the OP, I'm neutral.

I mean like, before the start of every mission, DMC 5 has a date (Like, October 11) and a time (Like, 7:35). Mission 19 starts with Dante and Vergil fight, Mission 20 starts with Nero and Vergil fighting, and both are given a time

Dante in DMC3 passively had quicksilver since he absorbed it into his soul - the game's timeline wasn't 5 seconds. In DMC2, he had Alastor (on top of chronologically already having quicksilver), which is stated and shown to give its possessor passive lighting speed - the game's timeline wasn't 5 seconds. I can go on. Speeds far slower than MFTL would raise this argument, which would downgrade speed in 90% of fiction if anyone took it seriously. This argument requires characters to operate at their maximum capacity 100% of the time, even during free/transition periods.

As far as the Fury thing, I disagree with teleportation. Idk how we are still having that discussion. The streaks when it moves, the ripples and splashes in the water when it runs over it, being named "breakneck [speed] predator," and the ability literally being rooted in speed is all the evidence I need. I don't see why Capcom would obfuscate such a simple ability in sentences that require deep interpretation when we've literally beaten several demons with direct teleporting as their power, such as Jester (Arkham), Geryon, Vergil, Malphas, Cavaliere Angelo, etc. Teleportation defeats Fury's evolutionary reasoning.

As far as their movement being a separate magical ability, Dante's trickster style revolves around amping his regular movement ability with magic. I don't see why Fury would be a special case.

For example:

Air Hike During a jump, press X. Concentrate demonic power into the area under your feet to perform a double jump that can reach higher locations.

Sky Star In mid-air, press L joystick + ◯. Focus your demonic power into a temporary mid-air platform then move horizontally in any direction (tilt L joystick)

 

[Shadow-Ragna]

I agree with the nuke of immeasurable speed if the translation means teleportation and not the actual speed as OP stated "Argosax where it straight up says テレポート (Teleport)".

Since the rules of such speed like infinite or immeasurable needed to be actual movement and speed not teleportation in short I agree.

 

[Robo432343]

As far as the OP, I'm neutral.




As far as the Fury thing, I disagree with teleportation. Idk how we are still having that discussion. The streaks when it moves, the ripples and splashes in the water when it runs over it, being named "breakneck [speed] predator," and the ability literally being rooted in speed is all the evidence I need. I don't see why Capcom would obfuscate such a simple ability in sentences that require deep interpretation when we've literally beaten several demons with direct teleporting as their power, such as Jester (Arkham), Geryon, Vergil, Malphas, Cavaliere Angelo, etc. Teleportation defeats Fury's evolutionary reasoning.

If the fury thing is actually speed and not teleportation what speed rating would he be

 

[SuperSonicTL]

If the fury thing is actually speed and not teleportation what speed rating would he be

His speed allows him to jump through time and space soo like... Atleast infinite? Because logically no matter how fast you are, you can't just jump through space and time to reach other location, you have to travel.

Then again, the scan says he isn't even "moving" under his own power (implying he is moving later too), he uses raw demonic energy into his speed to do "space-time jumps" which sounds like teleportation but that's also a synonym for infinite speed too and the description do seems to imply just that.