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Let's get right into it with the 1st edition of my hopefully 3 part CRT. We'll be talking about speed here since i do have many issues with these. Let's take them one by one:

Feat number 1: This High Hypersonic+ feat done by Mr.Bambu.
This is the one i feel is the most correct out of all the feats im gonna talk about. It is fairly straight to the point as a calc, my only issue is "why do we consider it real lightning?". From what was said in the blog this was used as a justification:
"It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 5 billion Joules or a voltage of around 100 million Volts in order to qualify."
And well, i am not sure whether this is really ok. Cus that would mean any electricity attack that can hurt an 8-C and above can be considered real lightning. Because we're scaling the energy of a electricity to it's speed, which to me sounds about the same as scaling a fire attack's temperature from it's energy. Or scaling a person's AP from his speed. It just feels weird at best. So this is more a point for discussion from members if we decide that that reasoning is sound then i am personally fine with this calc.

Feat number 2: Dante dodges Nevan's lightning.
This feat(?)...if you can even call it that, does not exist. The wording is misleading enough to seem acceptable, however Nevan never uses lightning attacks against Dante, or at least not as one would assume from the wording. What Nevan does with lightning is create this form of obstacle course by having the bats create electricity or she just has a group of bats create a bolt of electricity and then the bats "fly" to you. So the key part of all of this is, the bats create the electricity then they fly to you. Saying that is the same as dodging lightning is like saying that if a couple of guards run at you with tasers then if you can escape you dodged lightning. You can see the issues here. The last form of electricity attack Nevan does is launching electricity high then attacking the ground with it, but this has a lot of gameplay hints that tell you when the lightning is about to strike, one of them being the ground having electric visuals when the attack is about to happen. So that obviously doesn't scale.

Feat number 3: Dante Royal Guards and Dodges the Damned Rook.
Oh boy the issues i have with this one. First of all, this is using gameplay laser and don't really expect a game developer to make the hitbox for laser extendable at the same speed as that of light, let's be rea. The Rook's laser doesn't have an expanding hitbox at all, but let's look past that one for a moment. Let's look at the feat itself, because who knows, it might be legit. So Dante (Toni in this case), uses Royal Guard, a version of Guard that has to be timed with the opponent's attack, basically a parry. Seems fair enough till here. But let me explain with the pic from the linked video in the blog. Here, Dante manages to Royal Guard the Rook's laser, but when you slow the video down, you can clearly see that Dante is already in a blocking position before the laser has even started. Which means that it simply does not scale, Dante does not outpace the laser, he outpaces the Rook's movement speed (as he's the one setting up the laser attack). I think this is a pretty straightforward explanation for why it doesn't scale.

As for the 2nd part of the blog, the dodge. I have a similar issue. But one thing to note here is that jumping and dodging in DMC3 have i-frames (invincibility frames) which means that you cannot be hit during a certain period of the dodge/jump. With that in mind let us look at the feat shall we? The time stamp that is said on the blog has a VERY weird camera angle so i will just screen shot it, but also explain it with examples with good camera angles. So this here is Dante jumping away from the beam, but as you can see Dante has already initiated his jump before the laser started...again. I know the first argument that will pop up is "well how can you prove he was already out of the Laser's way at that point", well the thing is, i do not need to prove it. As long as the jump has started everything else is null because this happens if you get hit during the start of the jump. In those screenshots you can clearly see dante is being hit in the face by the laser, but since he has started the jump (in the 1st screenshot) and is in the first moments of the jump (in the 2nd screenshot) he does not get hit, because of those I-frames. So that kind of settles why that feat just does not work even if we disregard the whole hitbox is part of the game mechanics issue.

Feat number 4: Dante eye flicks Mundus' particle beam made by DMUA.
My main issue with this calc is this line right here:
Now, using the anglesize calculator gets a distance of 4.3378 and 1.6005 meters from the screen, meaning that Dante would be about 2.7373 meters away from Mundus.
Excuse me in what world of calculation is this distance 2.7m (from Mundus' head to Dante's head). There is just no way, I have no idea where the fault is here, but this is very bad.
And while i know that the first thought that comes to mind for this is "well let's redo the calc", there is another issue, but this time with the feat itself. Despite the fact that the cutscene shows Mundus sending the beam before Dante turning his head, the thing is, those happen at the same time, because as you can see here, the beam had not even been sent when Dante was looking at Mundus. So this means that Dante never even reacted to that. So to conclude this point we have 2 very big issues with this calc/feat as it currently stands, so this feat ain't the most valid one.

And that brings us to the last feat i want to talk about.
Feat Number 5: Dante and Mundus do the big leap.

So what are my issues with this feat you may rightfully ask. And my answer would be, why do we have a feat that has an assumed starting point, an assumed finishing point, AND an assumed time frame that leads to a result that is 813 to 2440 times FTL when their best feat otherwise clocks at about High Hypersonic or Sub-Rel at most. This calc is made up of only assumptions. But these ain't just any good ol' assumptions these are massive assumptions that lead to a very outlier-ish result that nothing else in the entire series ever tops or even comes remotely close to it. This feat gets a massive NO from me in all directions, this calc has nothing going for it.
 
What about the 1st point? Do you think the "if it has the AP it can be considered real lightning" is a good argument?
 
Seems fine.

I too find it weird we consider Nevan to be real lightning, because nothing really supports it. Besides it being sometimes called "lightning blasts" or something on the devil arm attack descriptions but it also calls it electricity other times as well so that shouldn't be used as proof that it qualifies as cloud to ground lightning speed.

Unless there's some other reasons I'm missing?
 
Actually that is not even about Nevan (the 1st point). It's about Trish' electricity attacks. And i am just going off of the blog there and there was nothing in the blog besides what i quoted to prove lightning.
 
Until I can clearly shift through everything presented, I am neutral on this. Will give a definite answer once I am finished looking it all over.
 
I mean normal electricity conducts through metal so that's not a reason at all.

And the AP is also a really bad justification considering lightning's AP doesn't actually "hit" you with 8-C AP the energy you actually "tank" is nowhere close to that. The reason "5 billion Joules or a voltage of around 100 million Volts" is required is if it's specifically specified, not scaling it to dura, considering that would actually disprove it being real lightning instead.
 
1. I'm not sure about this calc, seems outdated. So I agree unless the person who did it explains the reasoning.

2. The second calc is from a cloud-to-ground lightning attack that Nevan performs in the fight which has all the properties of real lightning as her lightning manifests from purple clouds. Also, Nevan's combat adjudicator states that her lightning comes from the sky.

3. I agree

4. The angsizing issue should be fixed, if there is an issue (I'm don't do calcs so I don't know). Correction: Dante did react to the beam after it was fired (slow it down to see it properly). The view from your screenshots even shows the beam after it is a couple of feet away from Mundus' third eye which is what produced the beam.

5. I agree, the calc never felt right to me but I do understand the logic.
 
2. Yeah but dante never reacts to it. There is a very clear game mechanics showing when the lightning is gonna strike. And even if we somehow count that that would still mean dante is at minimum thousands of times slower than lightning. So around supersonic I think not too sure.

4. Actually you can see that it has been launched in the 2nd and 3rd scan. In the 1st scan there is nothing there. Just mundus' glowing forehead.
 
2. Royal Guard is entirely reaction-based, if Dante (the player) didn't use Royal Guard at the perfect time, he would've been damaged and those loud bangs as the lightning hit's Dante while he using Royal Guard would not have played out. If the game devs wanted it to be unblockable or too fast for Dante they would've made it so. He does have a feat of reacting to CTG lightning from Griffon in DMC5 in a cutscene and he and Nero fought fodder demons that are essentially living CTG lightning.

4. Yes and if you look at that cutscene of the scene you screenshotted, you see the beam suddenly appear a couple of feet from Mundus' third eye without coming from it as if it's already discharged and couple that with up-close shot of the beam releasing from Mundus' head in a straight beam a second before and the panning pov shot of the beam moving towards Dante who turns to look at it, it is clear what the cutscene is trying to display.
 
He got a bad screen shot you can see here that the beam wasn't fired.

[emb]

Yea, I saw that, but if you look at the cutscene that I have linked above and slow it down you see the beam appear out from thin air feets from Mundus' head and already discharged.
 
4. dante did react after it got fired slow the video down to 0.25x and you can clearly see dante reacting after it got fired.you can also see mundus' forhead still glowing after it got fired. when dante reacts, mundus' forhead stops glowing which indicates his reaction was after it was fired. that screenshot is misleading because the light from his forhead can also overlap with the beam itself.
5. these high assumptions are made because they're most likely in interstellar space since there's not any point in the cut scene where you see any dominate sun/star and the time can be also assumed as dante & mundus didnt take eternity to get to their planet and no its not an outlier since it doesnt break any scaling chains nor does it appear to be inconsistent. dante doesnt seem to get blitzed by anything when he's fighting,and most of the time he's just joking and mocking his enemies as he fights not taking them seriously at all.
 
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What do you mean? It clearly comes out of his forehead, it's in the screenshots provided you can even slow down the video yourself.
 
I saw again The scene of the Light Beam of mundus is poorly written, we see mundus launch his beam before dante move his head

minute 1:47 (charges the attack), 1:53 (launches the attack) and 1:54 (dante move his head to deflect the attack)
 
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2. Royal Guard is entirely reaction-based, if Dante (the player) didn't use Royal Guard at the perfect time, he would've been damaged and those loud bangs as the lightning hit's Dante while he using Royal Guard would not have played out. If the game devs wanted it to be unblockable or too fast for Dante they would've made it so. He does have a feat of reacting to CTG lightning from Griffon in DMC5 in a cutscene and he and Nero fought fodder demons that are essentially living CTG lightning.

4. Yes and if you look at that cutscene of the scene you screenshotted, you see the beam suddenly appear a couple of feet from Mundus' third eye without coming from it as if it's already discharged and couple that with up-close shot of the beam releasing from Mundus' head in a straight beam a second before and the panning pov shot of the beam moving towards Dante who turns to look at it, it is clear what the cutscene is trying to display.
2. You'd have to be fast enough in frames not fast enough in speed. And you run into a similar problem as the rook's laser. He puts up his guard before we see the lightning moving towards him down.
 
Can see it where? Can you provide a screenshot, it's really vague what you're saying.
he's trying to say that when mundus fires his forhead was still glowing. when dante reacts, mundus' forhead glow was fading that indicates the beam was fired before dante reacted. you can clearly see it in the cutscene
 
About that mundus thing. The whole "you see it appear a few feet away from his face". That seems mostly like a graphics thing considering the beam only gets larger from there, it would keep the same length if it were already fired.
 
Can see it where? Can you provide a screenshot, it's really vague what you're saying.
Slow this down as much as possible and you will see that the beam appears out of thin air feet away from the white particles above Mundus' head. Earl's screen shots are good but the video shows how the beam appears.

2. You'd have to be fast enough in frames not fast enough in speed. And you run into a similar problem as the rook's laser. He puts up his guard before we see the lightning moving towards him down.
Yes, I am speaking for Frames, Dante would have had to use the Royal Guard technique perfectly in order to not receive any damage as it is a block move that is an actual ability that Dante has, not an I-frame that is exploited.
 
Slow this down as much as possible and you will see that the beam appears out of thin air feet away from the white particles above Mundus' head. Earl's screen shots are good but the video shows how the beam appears.
Again, post a screen shot.

I literally posted this scene 2 times now frame by frame, and what you're saying isn't really happening from what I'm seeing.
 
As you can see from the pic above dienomite. Dante already has his guard up, there is no lightning movement going on. So he clearly doesn't scale.

And in frames you forgot sth I mentioned in the op "laser or lightning usually don't have expanding hitboxes" so from start to finish "for lightning" it would be a single frame.

And that's not even tackling the issue that they were inside. How did she summon could to ground lightning in there?
 
Except that supports my point though?

He fires the beam 2 times, both times the same thing happens.

>Mundus forehead glow

>Beam shoots

The exact same thing is happening in the screen shots.

>Mundus forehead glows



>Beam appears


No because the cutscene shows that the white particals remain after the beam is fired from Mundus' head. Slow the video down as Mundus during the shot where Mundus shoot the beam before Dante turns his head.
 
No because the cutscene shows that the white particals remain after the beam is fired from Mundus' head. Slow the video down as Mundus during the shot where Mundus shoot the beam before Dante turns his head.
And if you look at the screen shots provided, you'll see that the beam leaves his forehead after Dante had already turned his head.
 
Earl asked me to post this.

Dante putting his guard up before the beam appeared.

That isn't Dante putting his guard up before the beam appears, that is Dante putting his guard up right as the attack reaches him. That's why Dante changes directions immediately because Royal Guard changes Dante's direction to where the attack is technically is according to code. This should show what I'm talking about.
 
And if you look at the screen shots provided, you'll see that the beam leaves his forehead after Dante had already turned his head.
I have looked at your screenshots already and remain unconvinced.
I hope this clears things up:

EDIT: The first image is supposed to be the last in the order but I screwed up.
 
Except the beam is not there on the second set of screen shots. It appears after Mundus charges up, mirroring the first set of screenshots. The white glow on his forehead is there before and after.

First set of screen shots:

>Mundus charges forehead (white glow)

>Beam is fired

>White glow still there

Second set of screen shots:

>Mundus charges forehead (white glow)

>Beam is fired

>White glow still there

I fail to see how this proves anything of what you're saying.
 
Except the beam is not there on the second set of screen shots. It appears after Mundus charges up, mirroring the first set of screenshots. The white glow on his forehead is there before and after.

First set of screen shots:

>Mundus charges forehead (white glow)

>Beam is fired

>White glow still there

Second set of screen shots:

>Mundus charges forehead (white glow)

>Beam is fired

>White glow still there

I fail to see how this proves anything of what you're saying.
I literally gave you a screenshot showing that the particles remain after Mundus shoots the beam and you saw the screens shots showing that the beam isn't coming from Mundus' head as it completely appears out of thin air feets away from Mundus. Put the two together.

>Mundus charges with white glow that intensifies when the beam is about to be shot
>Beam fired
>White glow remains but is dim while beam is fired off and gone
>jump cut to Dante turning his head with red eyes
>jump cut to a shot behind Dante showing his head already turned before the beam hits him
>White glow is still on Mundus' head and isn't glowing or intensified, showing that the beam didn't fire in that cutscene shot
>beam is nowhere to be found
>beam appears feets out from Mundus already discharged from his head rushing towards Dante.
 
That isn't Dante putting his guard up before the beam appears, that is Dante putting his guard up right as the attack reaches him. That's why Dante changes directions immediately because Royal Guard changes Dante's direction to where the attack is technically is according to code. This should show what I'm talking about.

Ok but the attack hasn't reached him and we see no lightning on the screen, even though dante is already in position and doesn't move from that point forward.
 
I literally gave you a screenshot showing that the particles remain after Mundus shoots the beam and you saw the screens shots showing that the beam isn't coming from Mundus' head as it completely appears out of thin air feets away from Mundus. Put the two together.

>Mundus charges with white glow that intensifies when the beam is about to be shot
>Beam fired
>White glow remains but is dim while beam is fired off and gone
>jump cut to Dante turning his head with red eyes
>jump cut to a shot behind Dante showing his head already turned before the beam hits him
>White glow is still on Mundus' head and isn't glowing or intensified, showing that the beam didn't fire in that cutscene shot
>beam is nowhere to be found
>beam appears feets out from Mundus already discharged from his head rushing towards Dante.
You debunk yourself with the last three points. The beam was leaving the forehead when the frame happened, why would the beam be missing if it was already in the air.
 
Let's get right into it with the 1st edition of my hopefully 3 part CRT. We'll be talking about speed here since i do have many issues with these. Let's take them one by one:

Feat number 1: This High Hypersonic+ feat done by Mr.Bambu.
This is the one i feel is the most correct out of all the feats im gonna talk about. It is fairly straight to the point as a calc, my only issue is "why do we consider it real lightning?". From what was said in the blog this was used as a justification:
"It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 5 billion Joules or a voltage of around 100 million Volts in order to qualify."
And well, i am not sure whether this is really ok. Cus that would mean any electricity attack that can hurt an 8-C and above can be considered real lightning. Because we're scaling the energy of a electricity to it's speed, which to me sounds about the same as scaling a fire attack's temperature from it's energy. Or scaling a person's AP from his speed. It just feels weird at best. So this is more a point for discussion from members if we decide that that reasoning is sound then i am personally fine with this calc.

Feat number 2: Dante dodges Nevan's lightning.
This feat(?)...if you can even call it that, does not exist. The wording is misleading enough to seem acceptable, however Nevan never uses lightning attacks against Dante, or at least not as one would assume from the wording. What Nevan does with lightning is create this form of obstacle course by having the bats create electricity or she just has a group of bats create a bolt of electricity and then the bats "fly" to you. So the key part of all of this is, the bats create the electricity then they fly to you. Saying that is the same as dodging lightning is like saying that if a couple of guards run at you with tasers then if you can escape you dodged lightning. You can see the issues here. The last form of electricity attack Nevan does is launching electricity high then attacking the ground with it, but this has a lot of gameplay hints that tell you when the lightning is about to strike, one of them being the ground having electric visuals when the attack is about to happen. So that obviously doesn't scale.

Feat number 3: Dante Royal Guards and Dodges the Damned Rook.
Oh boy the issues i have with this one. First of all, this is using gameplay laser and don't really expect a game developer to make the hitbox for laser extendable at the same speed as that of light, let's be rea. The Rook's laser doesn't have an expanding hitbox at all, but let's look past that one for a moment. Let's look at the feat itself, because who knows, it might be legit. So Dante (Toni in this case), uses Royal Guard, a version of Guard that has to be timed with the opponent's attack, basically a parry. Seems fair enough till here. But let me explain with the pic from the linked video in the blog. Here, Dante manages to Royal Guard the Rook's laser, but when you slow the video down, you can clearly see that Dante is already in a blocking position before the laser has even started. Which means that it simply does not scale, Dante does not outpace the laser, he outpaces the Rook's movement speed (as he's the one setting up the laser attack). I think this is a pretty straightforward explanation for why it doesn't scale.

As for the 2nd part of the blog, the dodge. I have a similar issue. But one thing to note here is that jumping and dodging in DMC3 have i-frames (invincibility frames) which means that you cannot be hit during a certain period of the dodge/jump. With that in mind let us look at the feat shall we? The time stamp that is said on the blog has a VERY weird camera angle so i will just screen shot it, but also explain it with examples with good camera angles. So this here is Dante jumping away from the beam, but as you can see Dante has already initiated his jump before the laser started...again. I know the first argument that will pop up is "well how can you prove he was already out of the Laser's way at that point", well the thing is, i do not need to prove it. As long as the jump has started everything else is null because this happens if you get hit during the start of the jump. In those screenshots you can clearly see dante is being hit in the face by the laser, but since he has started the jump (in the 1st screenshot) and is in the first moments of the jump (in the 2nd screenshot) he does not get hit, because of those I-frames. So that kind of settles why that feat just does not work even if we disregard the whole hitbox is part of the game mechanics issue.

Feat number 4: Dante eye flicks Mundus' particle beam made by DMUA.
My main issue with this calc is this line right here:
Now, using the anglesize calculator gets a distance of 4.3378 and 1.6005 meters from the screen, meaning that Dante would be about 2.7373 meters away from Mundus.
Excuse me in what world of calculation is this distance 2.7m (from Mundus' head to Dante's head). There is just no way, I have no idea where the fault is here, but this is very bad.
And while i know that the first thought that comes to mind for this is "well let's redo the calc", there is another issue, but this time with the feat itself. Despite the fact that the cutscene shows Mundus sending the beam before Dante turning his head, the thing is, those happen at the same time, because as you can see here, the beam had not even been sent when Dante was looking at Mundus. So this means that Dante never even reacted to that. So to conclude this point we have 2 very big issues with this calc/feat as it currently stands, so this feat ain't the most valid one.

And that brings us to the last feat i want to talk about.
Feat Number 5: Dante and Mundus do the big leap.

So what are my issues with this feat you may rightfully ask. And my answer would be, why do we have a feat that has an assumed starting point, an assumed finishing point, AND an assumed time frame that leads to a result that is 813 to 2440 times FTL when their best feat otherwise clocks at about High Hypersonic or Sub-Rel at most. This calc is made up of only assumptions. But these ain't just any good ol' assumptions these are massive assumptions that lead to a very outlier-ish result that nothing else in the entire series ever tops or even comes remotely close to it. This feat gets a massive NO from me in all directions, this calc has nothing going for it.
Since now i got time, i going to tackle point 2 and 3.
Point 2: For some reason you didnt told the viewers of this thread that Nevan does summon lighting from the ceiling to the ground, similar to cloud to ground, and she also does summon a huge and powerfull lighting when striking the ground the entire room gets eletrified with a huge white flash like lighing does when hitting the ground, why this is relevant ? Because the moment the room gets eletrified is happens on the same moment as the lighting when hitting the ground making the entire floor electrified and you can pretty much time the attack with Royal Guard so is still a feat noneless and you also forgetting a demon named Blitz and Trish. So i dont want to attack and point fingers at anyone, but appears you aint being honest here about nevan.

Point 3: This hole ''he is already in blocking position'' is irrelevant, timed Royal Guard is point blank the only thing you got is the scans not doing justice to the feat and also the people who did the calc can even redo and the results aint going to be diferent since the damn thing is point blank and everybody scales to it.

As bonus i going to say feel things about point 5: Thats very common in fiction, and only scales to God tier and DMC makes very clear why they outscale and outclass everyone in the series and also why Dante outclass and scales everysingle god tier asides from vergil.
 
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