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Well, for the first two it still needs to be written in somewhat well.
Also wait, Persona characters have appeared in BlazBlue?
Also wait, Persona characters have appeared in BlazBlue?
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Death Battle Season Six Discussion Thread (4) (Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
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The Smashor said:
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I hope to be wrong, but any hope to see a fair match had disapeared. Nobody has noticed that half of the preview is Weiss using, showing, equiping, charging Red Dust.
I can almost see the chapter in two weeks:
Wizard: Even thought Mitsuru has access to several pieces of equipment that can reduce or prevent fire damage, we haven't found any single canonical scene where she equip them so we consider them to be a non-canonical game mechanic to help the player beat the game.
Boomstick: Yeah, and we watched all the cutscenes, the movies and the manga. So she is very vulnerable to fire.
Wizard: And even though in the Luigi vs Tails, Luigi had a similar elemental advantage that WE consider that didn't matter, Weiss is much smarter than a plumber so she wins.
I can almost see the chapter in two weeks:
Wizard: Even thought Mitsuru has access to several pieces of equipment that can reduce or prevent fire damage, we haven't found any single canonical scene where she equip them so we consider them to be a non-canonical game mechanic to help the player beat the game.
Boomstick: Yeah, and we watched all the cutscenes, the movies and the manga. So she is very vulnerable to fire.
Wizard: And even though in the Luigi vs Tails, Luigi had a similar elemental advantage that WE consider that didn't matter, Weiss is much smarter than a plumber so she wins.
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And Weiss has shown no special resistance to being frozen at absolute zero.
Welp, good to know that they're just gonna keep being stupid.
Welp, good to know that they're just gonna keep being stupid.
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QnA hit YouTube. I know we got a summary earlier, but I'll show each question for reference like usual:
Why didn't you use more of Ben's aliens? Fight would have been too long, wanted to show the classics that everyone loves, and the animation budget would have been destroyed.
Why couldn't Upgrade take control of Hal's ring? Hal's passive forcefield would keep Upgrade out, plus Doctor Manhattan couldn't quite figure out how it works, so Upgrade stood no chance. (they showed comic panels where Guy's ring was destroyed by Manhattan and he made that comment)
What about Feedback or Chromastone? They could absorb the energy, sure, but Hal could yank it right back (they showed a Pre-Crisis comic I think for this {Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan})
Clockwork? He has time hax, but so does Hal, and Clockwork would get his ass kicked pretty quickly.
You compared Hal's speed to XLR8, shouldn't it have been Jetray since he's faster? XLR8 is more well-known and Jetray enters hyperspace to fly as fast as he can (Accoring to the Ultimate Alien episode "Eye of the Beholder"), which is basically using a wormhole, so it's not super combat applicable.
Couldn't Ben clone himself with Echo-Echo to have more aliens? He did something like that in the Alien Force episode "Duped," but it split his personality apart and their teamwork was awful, so it would have gotten him killed.
The creators of Ben 10 said Alien X is a multiversal being, why wasn't that mentioned? Because it was a blog post that said the Celestialsapiens would have to work together as a group to stop the destruction of the Omniverse and would perish if they didn't agree or were unaware. It's also not supported by canon.
The energy feedback should have been activated when Hal cut off Ben's arm, right? What triggers the Omnitrix fighting back is kind of unclear, but it usually happens only when the watch itself is attacked, not when bodily harm happens to Ben, such as when Vilgax attempted to cut off Ben's arm in the Season 1 finale. Also, the pulse isn't strong unless it charges. A side point, while the Omnitrix reacted to the Big Bang, Hal's faster than that (Liam, the head writer for the episode, did a calculation for the Omnitrix's reaction speed from the Big Bang event and stuff Hal's done, 13 trillion SOL for Omnitrix and 400 novemdecillion for Hal)
If Batman could take the ring off of Hal, why couldn't Ben? Hal wasn't paying attention at the time, it wouldn't happen if he was in an active fight.
Hal's ring has a time limit and the Omnitrix does not, so wouldn't Hal eventually lose, right? That plot point only happens if Hal's against someone at his level and they are at a stalemate. He had most of the advantages here outside of Alien X. (Liam also stated here that X never actually erased someone from existence and stated rings have defended against Crisis)
The Omnitrix won't let Ben die, so how did that happen? The failsafe is wildly inconsistent, not perfect, and Hal can move way faster than the Omnitrix can react. Also, Ben has died in the show before and in other timelines. The failsafe appeared once in the final episode and never activated in any of the other dozens of times it would have been needed beforehand.
Hal can't time travel, so why could he here? He did in Green Lantern #137 (looks Pre-Crisis to me), and other Green Lanterns have attempted it before (Some Lantern in Green Lantern Quarterly #2 {again, looks Pre-Crisis to me} wanted to try this to gain charge time).
Wouldn't the Sodobro Effect kick in for Alien X? It's never shown in the show that Ben knows about the effect (Paradox explained it to No-Watch Ben), Paradox brings it up because he was worried Eon would notice No-Watch Clockwork, and Paradox and No-Watch travel through time multiple times without Eon interfering, so it doesn't seem to really matter.
Liam then addresses the power gap and does say X is universal, but he points out Hal has universe feats like stopping the U-Bomb while boosted (but at his best he can overpower the Central Battery because he once defeated Ion, yadda yadda), matched Dr. Polaris' control of the universes' magnetic pull (Pre-Crisis), and hurt Captain Atom who could make a universe in a nanosecond (definitely Pre-Crisis), plus he's equal to Kyle who stopped a Big Bang that was bigger than ours (apparently 10 billions times more energy than ours), so there we go.
Why didn't you use more of Ben's aliens? Fight would have been too long, wanted to show the classics that everyone loves, and the animation budget would have been destroyed.
Why couldn't Upgrade take control of Hal's ring? Hal's passive forcefield would keep Upgrade out, plus Doctor Manhattan couldn't quite figure out how it works, so Upgrade stood no chance. (they showed comic panels where Guy's ring was destroyed by Manhattan and he made that comment)
What about Feedback or Chromastone? They could absorb the energy, sure, but Hal could yank it right back (they showed a Pre-Crisis comic I think for this {Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan})
Clockwork? He has time hax, but so does Hal, and Clockwork would get his ass kicked pretty quickly.
You compared Hal's speed to XLR8, shouldn't it have been Jetray since he's faster? XLR8 is more well-known and Jetray enters hyperspace to fly as fast as he can (Accoring to the Ultimate Alien episode "Eye of the Beholder"), which is basically using a wormhole, so it's not super combat applicable.
Couldn't Ben clone himself with Echo-Echo to have more aliens? He did something like that in the Alien Force episode "Duped," but it split his personality apart and their teamwork was awful, so it would have gotten him killed.
The creators of Ben 10 said Alien X is a multiversal being, why wasn't that mentioned? Because it was a blog post that said the Celestialsapiens would have to work together as a group to stop the destruction of the Omniverse and would perish if they didn't agree or were unaware. It's also not supported by canon.
The energy feedback should have been activated when Hal cut off Ben's arm, right? What triggers the Omnitrix fighting back is kind of unclear, but it usually happens only when the watch itself is attacked, not when bodily harm happens to Ben, such as when Vilgax attempted to cut off Ben's arm in the Season 1 finale. Also, the pulse isn't strong unless it charges. A side point, while the Omnitrix reacted to the Big Bang, Hal's faster than that (Liam, the head writer for the episode, did a calculation for the Omnitrix's reaction speed from the Big Bang event and stuff Hal's done, 13 trillion SOL for Omnitrix and 400 novemdecillion for Hal)
If Batman could take the ring off of Hal, why couldn't Ben? Hal wasn't paying attention at the time, it wouldn't happen if he was in an active fight.
Hal's ring has a time limit and the Omnitrix does not, so wouldn't Hal eventually lose, right? That plot point only happens if Hal's against someone at his level and they are at a stalemate. He had most of the advantages here outside of Alien X. (Liam also stated here that X never actually erased someone from existence and stated rings have defended against Crisis)
The Omnitrix won't let Ben die, so how did that happen? The failsafe is wildly inconsistent, not perfect, and Hal can move way faster than the Omnitrix can react. Also, Ben has died in the show before and in other timelines. The failsafe appeared once in the final episode and never activated in any of the other dozens of times it would have been needed beforehand.
Hal can't time travel, so why could he here? He did in Green Lantern #137 (looks Pre-Crisis to me), and other Green Lanterns have attempted it before (Some Lantern in Green Lantern Quarterly #2 {again, looks Pre-Crisis to me} wanted to try this to gain charge time).
Wouldn't the Sodobro Effect kick in for Alien X? It's never shown in the show that Ben knows about the effect (Paradox explained it to No-Watch Ben), Paradox brings it up because he was worried Eon would notice No-Watch Clockwork, and Paradox and No-Watch travel through time multiple times without Eon interfering, so it doesn't seem to really matter.
Liam then addresses the power gap and does say X is universal, but he points out Hal has universe feats like stopping the U-Bomb while boosted (but at his best he can overpower the Central Battery because he once defeated Ion, yadda yadda), matched Dr. Polaris' control of the universes' magnetic pull (Pre-Crisis), and hurt Captain Atom who could make a universe in a nanosecond (definitely Pre-Crisis), plus he's equal to Kyle who stopped a Big Bang that was bigger than ours (apparently 10 billions times more energy than ours), so there we go.
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https://youtu.be/nCN6fZZQ-cc kuro responded to the Q and A.
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To be fair to Liam, besides combining Pre and Post Crisis, his research seemed very thorough and he had plenty of counterarguments ready to respond to questions. I agree with the outcome and thought it was well thought out. Green Lantern is way faster, has more hax, and has all the power he needs whenever he needs it, unlike Ben, so I think it's correct
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It's not well thought out at all. And he definitely doesn't have more Hax. And having all the power he needs when he needs it is basically the superman argument all over again. And I suggest you watch Kuros video,im not saying he's correct, that's up for everyone in general to decide, but he does make some valid points.
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Can someone show me the feat the DB did for Hal?
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And if iirc most of Hal's abilities that where showcased in DB, are exclusives to Parallax Hal. Not saying he doesn't have an impressive arsenal own his own, but he doesn't have all of those in base as DB claims he has.
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When are people going to understand that Death Battle takes all the iterations of a character in mind when making fights. No, I don't care what the profiles on here state and you can keep being mad, the feats showcased are 100% real, he's not amped and it's all within his capability. If you want to say that his BASE form is 4-B, that's fine by me. Pulling the outlier card as well irks me to no end cause Hal has done this type of things multiple times.
He beat Krona while he had seven times the power necessary to destroy and recreate an universe. He fought Sinestro while he was amped by Parallax, who was hooked to a planet of people trapped in nightmares. He fought back while Parallax was in control of his body and ended up stalemating him. He beat General Zod, who was amped by two suns and came fresh off of kicking Superman's ass.
Not only that, but every so called "point" anyone ever had was shot down by a singular person who worked on the script. That's one man who was rebuking the points of many. You gotta give him props for that.
He beat Krona while he had seven times the power necessary to destroy and recreate an universe. He fought Sinestro while he was amped by Parallax, who was hooked to a planet of people trapped in nightmares. He fought back while Parallax was in control of his body and ended up stalemating him. He beat General Zod, who was amped by two suns and came fresh off of kicking Superman's ass.
Not only that, but every so called "point" anyone ever had was shot down by a singular person who worked on the script. That's one man who was rebuking the points of many. You gotta give him props for that.
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Apparently not for Ben 10 thoughXtas said:
Wokistan
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Lets not try and cause conflict. "you can keep being mad" isn't the best.
1-B stuff's still a definite outlier, but I think the tier 2 stuff even off Ring Entities, White Lantern, and Spectre's fine to use. Scaling to immeasurable speed via Time Trapper sorta makes him win by default as well. I agree with the outcome imo, but that there's actual debate over this one to me indicates that it shouldn't just immediately be shelved like matches such as Tifa vs Yang even if you disagree, because they can come to a different conclusion for less absurd reasons than that one.
1-B stuff's still a definite outlier, but I think the tier 2 stuff even off Ring Entities, White Lantern, and Spectre's fine to use. Scaling to immeasurable speed via Time Trapper sorta makes him win by default as well. I agree with the outcome imo, but that there's actual debate over this one to me indicates that it shouldn't just immediately be shelved like matches such as Tifa vs Yang even if you disagree, because they can come to a different conclusion for less absurd reasons than that one.
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@Light,If that's the case, give Ben Ben 10,000 and Ultimate Ben.
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For Thanos too.LightinAnt said:
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I agree if it's anyone from Pre-Crisis, definitely not Post-Crisis though.
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Death battle in general dosn't use Pre-Crisis
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Doing these weird composites is the main problem about most of these battles, because the different iterations of a character contradict eachother in weaknesses/powers and just creates a mess of powerscaling. It would have been easier for them too to just stick to 1 version of a character
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Ben 10,000 is Ben, just he's future and confirmed self.
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False.Xtas said:
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Are Post-Crisis characters strictly 4-B with Universal outliers here and there or do they have a myriad of feats surpassing 4-B that are called outliers for "consistency" sake?
Wokistan
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Do any of the Bens get to immeasurable speed, though? Parallax scales to Time Trapper, and speed is ridiculously overpowered. Legit just that and AP alone would make him win just via ben never even acting.
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But that's the problem. Why would their level of overall power change, even though there the same person?Js250476 said:
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Hal clearly didn't get Parallax, as they didn't mention it.
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I'm telling ya, Pre-Crisis was broken asf.Wokistan said:
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In Darkseid's case iirc it's ether because he's being impersonated by somebody else or he's using a weaker avatar
https://youtu.be/9iEWTHzzCVg This vid explains it well.
https://youtu.be/9iEWTHzzCVg This vid explains it well.
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I've already dug Mitsuru's grave. I know she will get the Tifa treatment. And if they use manga feats for Weiss, then use Persona Q and Q2 feats. Hey, those are actually canon. Not to mention Endgame stuff. There should be no reason why Mitsuru unless feats are ignored and she's downplayed. This is one thing I am very vehement about. Not to mention there are Persona manga as well.
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Kuro REALLY hates composite characters, doesn't he?
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I hate them to tbh.
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Post-Crisis Darkseid is literally not the same Darkseid from Pre-Crisis powerwise, otherwise he shouldn't have lost to anyone member of the JL like at all.Xtas said:
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