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Death Battle Season Nine Discussion Thread (2) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
@Kirbonic_Pikmin I'm guessing things like Shadow vs Ryuko didn't fully satisfy you?
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Yeah, I'll be honest every Sonic episode from S5 and before I think is ass for one reason or another. Discounting S1 episodes for obvious reasons, there's at minimum ONE massive issue in terms of research or animation in every episode to that point that hurts the episode severely for me. I probably don't need to explain those and wouldn't want to make a huge paragraph though. For more recent episodes though...

Archie v Wally I am REALLY not a fan of, its one of my personal least favorite episodes on the show for a myriad of reasons. Archie v Wally is my favorite versus MU of all time, so I naturally went into the MU with probably slightly too high standards, but ultimately the fight felt like it completely underutilized both of these characters, barely did anything interesting with them, and didn't really use any of Wally's and ESPECIALLY non of Archie's interesting abilities that kind of bring life to the matchup in the first place. Not to mention an absolutely rushed, shitty finale with poor Sonic characterization & VA, Flash having a pretty corny line before winning and the finishing kill blow being nearly imperceptible on a first viewing, and a frankly very poor explanation for the victory (lesser matchups with less going into them have had significantly longer explanations than a complex MU like this) and it's just an episode I don't like at all. I think a lot of the issues with the fight feeling rushed can be attributed towards the fight's victor apparently being changed midway through development, with meaning the fight probably had to be changed to have a Flash win late, which lead to a rushed feeling ending and a pretty rushed explanation. Ultimately it was just super disappointing for me.

Shadow vs Ryuko is... alright. Definitely not bad and probably the first decent Sonic DB imo, but it's pretty flawed. Ryuko's characterization is pretty ****** up, with her acting like how she does at the very beginning of the series compared to how she should, and there's a lot of noticeable jank throughout the fight. This episode was another one noted to be a little rushed by animators who worked on it, meaning they didn't get to iron out all the kinks they wanted to or finish hand drawn segments they would've liked. I think if this episode had been allotted more time or budget, it would've probably been the first episode I could feel happy with (even if it's a pity win).

So yeah, as of now Archie Silver v Xeno Trunks has a lot riding on for me, but so far with the analysis previews being very promising and the fight preview being promising, I've got high hopes.
TartaChocholate said:
Haven't played Sonic 06 myself either, but the stuff I've heard around at the very least people take issue with regarding Silver are a mix of things: his boss battles are incredibly frustating, apparently his gameplay in his own story can also get pretty broken, due to 06's writting issues, Silver can come across as too guillble and foolish, especially since he's actually believing the main villain's lies to attack Sonic (which if not done properly simply makes Silver come across as a fool). This of course added to the bad rep of 06 and all.

Stuff I've seen mentioned, could be wrong
Click to expand...
In all fairness, most of the issues/hatred of Silver kind of stemmed with hating 06, his introduction, as a game. Boss fights against him are notorious, his gameplay style was probably the most broken of them all, and him being a gullible character lead to him kind of getting shit on.

Frankly though, as a character, there's literally nothing wrong with him and everything about his character and how he acts or reacts makes sense in his condition. Of course he's going to jump at the bit when he gets given a chance to save his ruined world after years of nothing letting him save it. Of course he's going to be stunned by natural, living wildlife and flora and fauna when he lives in a post apocalyptic magma hellscape, of course he's going to be gullible when he has minimal social interaction with others. Everything about how he acted is reasonable and makes sense and isn't really bad writing. It's just him and his arc are attached to a notoriously disliked story with 06.

Frankly I remember a lot of people were pretty ****** up back in the day, I vividly remember ppl calling him a pothead or a crackhead for being shocked upon seeing a FOREST for the first time in his life and calling it "incredible" like, duh, no shit, you go live in a magma city for 17 years and see how you feel upon seeing a forest, jackass.
 
i didn't notice any jank until the 4th re-watch-so i think the sneak peek is good. and yeah you're right Kirbonic, i think Silver getting arrested for time shenanigans is a fine enough reason for the fight to happen so yeah, I'm cool with it.

It just reminded me too much of MagTetsu, the fight just starts and they start throwing shit at each other while flying through a city
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
@TartaChocholate in Silver's defense, by the time his story began he was both desperate and frustrated at the fact that he hasn't been able to defeat Iblis (the one responsible for the bad future) and is trying his damnedest to create a better world so when someone comes around and says "hey I know how this all started, if you kill the individual responsible for creating armageddon then your future can be saved!".
Of course, in execution what happens in 06 is pretty much objectively garbage but in concept I can understand why Silver acts the way he did in that game
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Yeah, I agree. It's not so much Silver believed the lie, but rather how it was done, as you say. Dunno, had Mephilles used a disguise to give himself a more normal appearance instead of his borderline satanic appearance and shown a fake recording in a monitor of Sonic attacking innocent people or such would have made Silver buying his lies a lot more reasonable. The botched execution is what made it come as "Silver was dumb" instead of the proper "Silver was a desperate guy who was taken advantage of by the cunning bad guy".
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Yeah, I'll be honest every Sonic episode from S5 and before I think is ass for one reason or another. Discounting S1 episodes for obvious reasons, there's at minimum ONE massive issue in terms of research or animation in every episode to that point that hurts the episode severely for me. I probably don't need to explain those and wouldn't want to make a huge paragraph though. For more recent episodes though...

Archie v Wally I am REALLY not a fan of, its one of my personal least favorite episodes on the show for a myriad of reasons. Archie v Wally is my favorite versus MU of all time, so I naturally went into the MU with probably slightly too high standards, but ultimately the fight felt like it completely underutilized both of these characters, barely did anything interesting with them, and didn't really use any of Wally's and ESPECIALLY non of Archie's interesting abilities that kind of bring life to the matchup in the first place. Not to mention an absolutely rushed, shitty finale with poor Sonic characterization & VA, Flash having a pretty corny line before winning and the finishing kill blow being nearly imperceptible on a first viewing, and a frankly very poor explanation for the victory (lesser matchups with less going into them have had significantly longer explanations than a complex MU like this) and it's just an episode I don't like at all. I think a lot of the issues with the fight feeling rushed can be attributed towards the fight's victor apparently being changed midway through development, with meaning the fight probably had to be changed to have a Flash win late, which lead to a rushed feeling ending and a pretty rushed explanation. Ultimately it was just super disappointing for me.

Shadow vs Ryuko is... alright. Definitely not bad and probably the first decent Sonic DB imo, but it's pretty flawed. Ryuko's characterization is pretty ****** up, with her acting like how she does at the very beginning of the series compared to how she should, and there's a lot of noticeable jank throughout the fight. This episode was another one noted to be a little rushed by animators who worked on it, meaning they didn't get to iron out all the kinks they wanted to or finish hand drawn segments they would've liked. I think if this episode had been allotted more time or budget, it would've probably been the first episode I could feel happy with (even if it's a pity win).

So yeah, as of now Archie Silver v Xeno Trunks has a lot riding on for me, but so far with the analysis previews being very promising and the fight preview being promising, I've got high hopes.

In all fairness, most of the issues/hatred of Silver kind of stemmed with hating 06, his introduction, as a game. Boss fights against him are notorious, his gameplay style was probably the most broken of them all, and him being a gullible character lead to him kind of getting shit on.

Frankly though, as a character, there's literally nothing wrong with him and everything about his character and how he acts or reacts makes sense in his condition. Of course he's going to jump at the bit when he gets given a chance to save his ruined world after years of nothing letting him save it. Of course he's going to be stunned by natural, living wildlife and flora and fauna when he lives in a post apocalyptic magma hellscape, of course he's going to be gullible when he has minimal social interaction with others. Everything about how he acted is reasonable and makes sense and isn't really bad writing. It's just him and his arc are attached to a notoriously disliked story with 06.

Frankly I remember a lot of people were pretty ****** up back in the day, I vividly remember ppl calling him a pothead or a crackhead for being shocked upon seeing a FOREST for the first time in his life and calling it "incredible" like, duh, no shit, you go live in a magma city for 17 years and see how you feel upon seeing a forest, jackass.
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Holy wall of text Batman.
 
TMaakkonen said:


How long will this last I wonder.
Click to expand...

Probably as long as DB super forms.
TartaChocholate said:
Haven't played Sonic 06 myself either, but the stuff I've heard around at the very least people take issue with regarding Silver are a mix of things: his boss battles are incredibly frustating, apparently his gameplay in his own story can also get pretty broken, due to 06's writting issues, Silver can come across as too guillble and foolish, especially since he's actually believing the main villain's lies to attack Sonic (which if not done properly simply makes Silver come across as a fool). This of course added to the bad rep of 06 and all.

Stuff I've seen mentioned, could be wrong
Click to expand...
Unfortunately your comment also reflects another major reason of the 06 hate; word of mouth and/or watching gameplay (of someone who may or may not be deliberately triggering the glitches on purpose) instead of playing the game yourself, causes Sonic 06's infamous reputation to spread like wildfire and ofc Silver gets hit by some of the inevitable backlash.

As someone who has actually played Sonic 06, it's a fun but bad game imo but the hate is definitely overly exaggerated when objectively worse games have been released both before and after Sonic 06 but the Sonic franchise often attracts a certain degree of double standards (despite how popular and iconic it is also it's been over 15 years, some people really need to stop using Sonic 06 as a lame excuse to shit on as well as hold back Sonic and find more productive uses of their time).
 
@Axiom: Yeah, I see your point. It's pretty ass actually, it's kinda like spreading rumors about someone. I mean, don't get me wrong, despite my comments on the issues I've seen people have brought up I don't have an opinion on 06 myself not having played it (reason why I was pretty open on saying it was stuff I've heard). And I get what you mean, it happens way too much sadly.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Unless someone asks me why I dislike all S5 and earlier Sonic episodes on the show or unless Sakuya vs Hit or Simon vs Kyle is this season, I probably wont ( :<
Click to expand...
I'll only ask one, what was wrong with Knuckles vs DK? I get that the analysis made Knuckles out to be a dumbass, but I don't think that reflected in the fight itself. Only real issue I can see is Knuckles' Oh no gag, which I totally get.
 
I think 06 within itself could've been a pretty decent game if it was given more time to cook in the development oven and some of the flaws were either ironed out or removed, it's why I'm glad that Project 06 exists to show such potential does exist.
But outside of that, assuming that Swan's favorite will be Sauron then who's currently his best match up?
 
well imo its like this

Archie vs Wally was a solid fight but issue is is just standard good nothing to really brag about as it didn't go all the way with both characters abilities and scale so overall it just like how Tmak felt with Po vs Iron Fist
good but it could've been far better given the fighters involved.


Shadow vs Ryuko- Solid fight but the issue was Ryuko Characterization being Early Half Ryuko then EOS self and there's some bit of jank in it overall not bad pretty decent with issue kinda stem on the writing on the other side of the combatant


so in short the last two sonic fights were pretty solid in comparison to most sonic fights but overall had some issues and need that peak episode to flex about
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I think 06 within itself could've been a pretty decent game if it was given more time to cook in the development oven and some of the flaws were either ironed out or removed, it's why I'm glad that Project 06 exists to show such potential does exist.
But outside of that, assuming that Swan's favorite will be Sauron then who's currently his best match up?
Click to expand...
Swan has been saying that his new most wanted is Dragonborn vs Chosen Undead, you think he has enough pull to have gotten the MU done this soon after Diocard?
 
greymerlion2 said:
Swan has been saying that his new most wanted is Dragonborn vs Chosen Undead, you think he has enough pull to have gotten the MU done this soon after Diocard?
Click to expand...
If by pull you mean enough influence to make it happen officially on DB then I'm not sure, though Skyrim is still pretty popular and FromSoftware's been on top of the world due to Elden Ring's release so I don't see why we couldn't get a ES vs Souls like DB soon
 
Before Simon vs Kyle happens I hope we can get Kamina vs Ace or Gyro just because I feel like if we get Simon vs Lyle first we might not get Kamina
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I think 06 within itself could've been a pretty decent game if it was given more time to cook in the development oven and some of the flaws were either ironed out or removed, it's why I'm glad that Project 06 exists to show such potential does exist.
But outside of that, assuming that Swan's favorite will be Sauron then who's currently his best match up?
Click to expand...
Well, if this is to go by:



06 suffered from a very troubled production, not only it was rushed, the team was also split, among other things. So a legitimately good concept and project had it hard from the get go.

EDIT: Even Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric, the other low point of the franchise also had many issues during development.
 
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in all seriousness, not sure why Ben had to flat out say "its one of the obvious ones from the teaser"-when there's only Sauron left. So he probably forgot who was teased in the teaser,

he quickly added "or maybe not"-but too late my dude
 
JoshDoshMosh said:
Before Simon vs Kyle happens I hope we can get Kamina vs Ace or Gyro just because I feel like if we get Simon vs Lyle first we might not get Kamina
Click to expand...
Kamina is probably the one relevant Gurren Lagann character who doesn't actually benefit from all the dimensional scaling, so he's the only guy they could bring in that wouldn't just have them retread Simon's feats. And considering how people feel about the universe shockwaves, Naruto moon feat, etc, that's likely for the best.
 
Thoughts on the preview:
  • Track sounds awesome, can't wait to hear it isolated from the fight
  • Kaiser as Trunks was expected, but fantastic nonetheless.
  • Good reason for fighting, even it was a bit predictable (no need to overcomplicate something when it isn't needed).
  • Silver sounds pretty good.
  • Writings pretty in character.
  • A little disappointed we don't get Silver in his Secret Freedom Fighters uniform. I get why, but it'd go well against Trunks drip (as an aside, both sprites look great), and help distinguish him from canon Silver should he ever come on the show.
  • They've already packed a decent amount of abilities in just this preview. Sword combat, Masenko, ki blasts, telekinesis used for defence, projectiles AND attack reflection, Power Ring Dimension travel, all in about 45 seconds.
  • Trunks looks a little janky at points, but nothing that distracts or pulls me out of the fight.
  • It's blink and you'll miss it, but I love Silvers expression work right before Trunks goes in to slash him. Hope there's more of this, great stuff.
 
greymerlion2 said:
Holy wall of text Batman.
Click to expand...
It's my special ability.
Quantu said:
Do you think DB will buy 10.5D Anti spiral world
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They kind of have to, it's incredibly integrated into the very plot of TTGL itself, it's where the entirety of the last like, 8 episodes of the series take place and they put a good amount of explanation into it. 10/11D TTGL is incredibly solid. If they don't mention it there we're never getting dimensional scaling on this show lol.

greymerlion2 said:
I'll only ask one, what was wrong with Knuckles vs DK? I get that the analysis made Knuckles out to be a dumbass, but I don't think that reflected in the fight itself. Only real issue I can see is Knuckles' Oh no gag, which I totally get.
Click to expand...
As a big DK and Sonic fan, I'm not really huge on the episode:

DK's sprite is absolutely horrific and just does not look good, at all. Like what the ****. This has to be one of the worst ways a character was represented on the show lol. They boiled it down to essentially a battle of the idiots, it definitely felt reflected in the fight with how Knuckles acted and generally went about combat outside of his one smart move in the burrowing.

I will give the episode credit in that, it's pretty decently animated, especially for the time on the show. But the combination of DK's ugly ass sprite, my characterization issues, the annoying ass overbearing ass oh no jokes, the pretty horrible research, mentioning weapons Knuckles has then never giving him to the fight, mentioning specific weaknesses of DK and never allowing them to be exploited despite Knuckles having ways to do so, whatever the **** was going on in the finale of the fight (seriously, has anyone figured out what the **** Knuckles and DK were trying to do when Knux latched onto the wall?) and other things just kind of lower it in my favor a lot. Out of all the Sonic episodes from S5 and before though, its the technical best at least, it's at least decently animated and doesn't look ugly or have the most miserably slow pace imaginable.
 
TartaChocholate said:
Well, if this is to go by:



06 suffered from a very troubled production, not only it was rushed, the team was also split, among other things. So a legitimately good concept and project had it hard from the get go.
Click to expand...

I like that channel, giving a lot of info behind what went down with games, movies and so on, especially when they failed
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
(seriously, has anyone figured out what the **** Knuckles and DK were trying to do when Knux latched onto the wall?) and other things just kind of lower it in my favor a lot. Out of all the Sonic episodes from S5 and before though, its the technical best at least, it's at least decently animated and doesn't look ugly or have the most miserably slow pace imaginable.
Click to expand...
Considering they mentioned Knuckles punching walls to climb, I assume Knuckles was inspired by DK hitting the wall and tried to climb out. Of course, we know how that went.
 
JoshDoshMosh said:
To each their own, although I would be interested to hearing an MU you might have in mind if you have any.

also somewhat side tangent, you think Anti Spiral himself would make it onto DB?
Click to expand...
He has a somewhat popular MU against Yaldabaoth from Persona 5, though I'm not really sold on the animation side of things.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
As a big DK and Sonic fan, I'm not really huge on the episode:

DK's sprite is absolutely horrific and just does not look good, at all. Like what the ****. This has to be one of the worst ways a character was represented on the show lol. They boiled it down to essentially a battle of the idiots, it definitely felt reflected in the fight with how Knuckles acted and generally went about combat outside of his one smart move in the burrowing.

I will give the episode credit in that, it's pretty decently animated, especially for the time on the show. But the combination of DK's ugly ass sprite, my characterization issues, the annoying ass overbearing ass oh no jokes, the pretty horrible research, mentioning weapons Knuckles has then never giving him to the fight, mentioning specific weaknesses of DK and never allowing them to be exploited despite Knuckles having ways to do so, whatever the **** was going on in the finale of the fight (seriously, has anyone figured out what the **** Knuckles and DK were trying to do when Knux latched onto the wall?) and other things just kind of lower it in my favor a lot. Out of all the Sonic episodes from S5 and before though, its the technical best at least, it's at least decently animated and doesn't look ugly or have the most miserably slow pace imaginable.
Click to expand...
Oh my god, YES

Why was that DK sprite ever considered a good idea?
 
TartaChocholate said:
Honestly, it's a bit surprising just how frequently bad or cotroversial games turn out to have been the result of the developers being screwed over by higher ups or business conflicts.
Click to expand...
That honestly shouldn't be surprising at all. That's honestly the reasoning for basically any game that comes out controversial/rushed/bad.

No developer actually wants to release a shitty game, and no developer would if they could. It's always rushed development cycles, release dates or higher ups muscling things or business conflicts that lead to a major AAA release being a shitshow. A tale as old as time honestly.
 
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