DBZ Multipliers

[DragonEmperor23]

I've made this so that we can discuss which multipliers in DBZ can be accepted and which are not. I made it a CRT since it will likely be needed to revise statistics after the multipliers have been decided. We're going to be discussing things like the Super Saiyan multipliers among others.

Remember, keep a cool head and don't get into too heated arguments.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The various Kaio-Ken multipliers are accepted iirc. As is SS1. Personally I think SS2 and SS3 can also be used. Dunno how the one fusion statement goes around bere.

 

[Akreious]

Kaioken multipliers are accepted. Pretty simple, it's in the name.

Super Saiyan is at minimum 40x base. This is because Super Saiyan Goku was able to equal/surpass 100% Freeza, who at 50% is equal to kaiokenx20 Goku.

Super Saiyan Goku = 100% Freeza who is 2x 50% Freeza who is equal to Kaiokenx20 Goku.

So Super Saiyan = 40x Minimum.

Super Saiyan 2 is... weird.

As is 3. Their multipliers from the Daizzenshuu doesn't realy make sense since a 2x and 4x multiplier respectively of the previous multipliers don't make them that much more powerful?

Fusions should AT LEAST be the two fusionee's APs combined together, likely higher since it's stated that their combined powers gets amplified/multiplied (Depending on the translation).

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Doesn't it depend on the combination or multiplying if the fusion is from the dance or the earrings?

 

[AKM sama]

Ssj2 and ssj3 multipliers are not accepted due to them not being stated anywhere in the series and because of how contradictory they are. Kaioken and Oozaru multipliers are accepted.

 

[The_Calaca]

SSJ2 multiplier is inconsistent so it can't be used. Gohan vaporized Cell with half his power so he can't fight a Perfect Cell with SSJ1 but can kill Super Perfect Cell with half SSJ2.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Tbf in the Cell fight Gohan got a rage boost on top of SS2. So it wasn't only the form increasing his strength.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

rage boosts are a thing

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah. Gohan explicitly mentions to Cell that him gaining a rage boost was Goku's plan. SS2 was just a nice unexpected side bonus

 

[DragonEmperor23]

yes, this is supported by gohan vs raditz and gohan vs 2nd(it might have been 3rd) form frieza

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/seg-story-volume-truth-about-dragon-ball/

"Why does Goku's hair turn gold when he becomes a Super Saiyan?

I decided on the design for the Super Saiyan for, to be honest… a simple reason that will leave you saying "What?". I always have only a single person, Assistant-ku3, helping me with my work. That Assistant-kun's time was always taken up doing the black fill of Goku's hair, so the biggest reason was in order to save time. Because when he became a Super Saiyan, we wouldn't have to do the black fill. It also had the effect of making it easy to tell from his appearance that Goku had gotten stronger, so it killed two birds with one stone. Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeratio. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point."

 

[DragonEmperor23]

The transformation being 10X means it is twice as weak as kaioken x20 which we all know isn't true.

 

[AstralKing7]

So it's actually 10x good to know lol

 

[DragonEmperor23]

The transformation being 10X means it is twice as weak as kaioken x20 which we all know isn't true.

^

Hyperboles also work the other way around you know. + Death of the Author.

 

[AstralKing7]

you know that we really can specify ourself based on the Akira's words. We got him saying that he truly wanted it to be a 10x multiplier not 50x

 

[DragonEmperor23]

" Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeratio. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point." "

So basically what he is saying, is that he wrote Super Saiyan into the story as a 50X multiplier. His feelings after that don't really matter because they don't effect what happened.

 

[AstralKing7]

It's a lot of ways to interpret it tbh. One way is by just realizing that the multipliers for all the SS forms shouldn't be used if you believe the 50x increase is just a hyperbole in verse and that Akira himself is saying that it's a hyperbole just like other multipliers that aren't excepted

I'm just throwing stuff in the air tho

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I see it more like, when he made the transformation it was 50X and then looking back on it he felt like it should have been 10X. Then again, 10X makes no sense considering that would mean Kaiokenx20 is a better option than Super Saiyan.

 

[Neo_hakkaishin]

I thus understand, the super sayajin transformations, multiply the base power, not the previous transformation

in other words the super sayajin multiplies the base power by 50, the two super sayajin multiplies this same power base by a larger amount, and the three does the same thing

now the divine phases are not multiplications they are more like a conversion of power (basically as if the mortal power fose converted into divine power)

the fact that using divine power causes more damage, only means that divine power is more powerful than the same amount of mortal power

alias, you do not need to have twice the power to humiliate your opponent in dragon ball, to be only 5% more powerful already leaves you strong enough to humiliate your opponents so much and truth that the one super sayajin is not absurdly more powerful just use the pdl of the characters in the same saga and you will see that I am certain (saga frezza goku ssj vs frezza full max power)

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I don't think powerlevels are accepted on this wiki, could be wrong though.

 

[Neo_hakkaishin]

may not be accepted, but to give you an idea of the power difference between goku and frezza at the time, and that difference was minimal (considering the level of power they both had) in other words you do not need to have twice the power of your opponent to humiliate you, just a percentage more power than your opponent

 

[DragonEmperor23]

ic

 

[Akreious]

Death of the Author. As sad as that is.

We know Super Saiyan is at least a 40x Multiplier right now.

Y'know, since Super Saiyan Goku >= 100% Freeza who is double 50% Freeza who is equal to Kaiokenx20 Goku and if we lowball Goku to only first form freeza level?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Akira is known to make weirdly contradictory statements or getting his own stuff wrong at times.

 

[AKM sama]

Akira Toriyama is very forgetful. Maybe, he could be referring to Goku after using kaiokenx20, in that ssj1 is 10x stronger than kaiokenx20 Goku.

Anyway, ssj1 being more than base x40 is pretty straightforward in the manga.

 

[The_Calaca]

10x stronger than KKx20 it's a 200x then. It's too much imo.

 

[Dark649]

The Kaioken Multipliers and Frieza x2 boost to 100% can be used, the problem is not how it affects ap but rather the speed.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

We know that kaioken affects speed the same way it does strength.

 

[Jobbo]

That'd make the Frieza arc MFTL.

 

[Dark649]

Yes, even by being most safe as possible, Ginyu Saga KKx10 Goku would be FTL+ and Frieza Saga KKx20 Goku would be MFTL, both which i have no problems but is problematic to others.

[BoZ Goku = 0.14c, Vegeta Saga KKx4 Goku = 0.56c, Ginyu Saga Base Goku = Vegeta Saga KKx4 Goku = 0.56c, Base Ginyu Saga Goku KKx10 = 5.6c, 2nd Form Freeza and Piccolo = 5.6c, Base Goku Post-Zenkai = 5.6c, Goku Post Zenkai Kaiokenx10 and KKx20 = 56c and 112c, 100% Freeza = 224c]

- While for AP by being most safe as possible would be:

[Goku = 69,69 Zettatons, Vegeta Saga KKx4 Goku = 278 Zettatons, Base Ginyu Saga Goku = 278 Zettatons, Ginyu Saga Goku KKx10 = 2787,6 Zettatons, First Form Frieza = 1.7 Tenatons, Post Zenkai Goku = At least 1,7 Tenatons, KKx20 Post Zenkai Goku = 34 Tenatons, 100% Frieza = 68 Tenatons. Android 18 = Star level, Semi-Perfect Cell = Large Star level].

 

[Jobbo]

For AP Krillin should scale to 280 Zettatons because he oneshotted several Saibamen. The same logic is used for Mo-Ri and Code Geass profiles.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wait, why 280? His AP could only be like, 2-4x their durability and still one shot.

 

[Jobbo]

Because he killed them with one attack. Come to think of it, he should actually scale to 420 Zettatons since he actually split the attack into six parts, the ones that hit Vegeta and Nappa just didn't do anything.

 

[Dark649]

- If that above is considered and that Goku then, Vegeta Saga Base Goku = 280 Zettatons, Vegeta Saga KKx4 Goku = 1120 Zettatons, Base Ginyu Saga Goku = 1120 Zettatons, Ginyu Saga Goku KKx10 = 11200 Zettatons.

- If Goku is easily stronger than Krillin that he is, let's say for ex. [by being safe] that he is 1,30x stronger than Krillin. [For reference Goku fought a Full Powered Nappa, who killed Piccolo, who is stronger than Krillin]. Vegeta Saga Base Goku = 364 Zettatons, Vegeta Saga KKx4 Goku = 1456 Zettatons, Base Ginyu Saga Goku = 1456 Zettatons, Ginyu Saga Goku KKx10 = 14560 Zettatons.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah but that's what I meant. If his one attack was like, 120 Zetatons then he could still one shot them all.

 

[Jobbo]

Except it'd only be 20 Zettatons each when split up.

 

[Huesito88]

Each Saibamen was equal to Raditz and it one shot them.

 

[Dark649]

Ant and other users said that this revision should be done, so i'm willing make another thread using the most safe possibilites, if MFTL is contested i will go with at least FTL+, likely far higher.

 

[Dark649]

So, i made this.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Nice.