Current Gojo VS Heian Era Ryomen Sukuna

[Sir_Marvulous]

Despite the manga stating that using lesser chants is a faster way to use techniques, Gojo still uses Red and HOLLOW PURPLE, which involve chants and signs. Despite not showcasing this previously, Gojo uses chants and signs to amp them up. However, the pinnacle of one's Jujutsu, Domain Expansion, despite having techniques like Barriers that involve long chants, can't be amped by chants. I'm not going to send scans to prove that Domain Expansion can't be amped, despite the fight between Gojo and Sukuna already showing increased internal and external barrier power. Despite Gojo talking about cursed energy matters when it comes to Domain Expansion. Despite Sukuna amping HWB with his hand signs & chants. Only domain can't be amped

Why?
Because Gojo fans said so.

So far scans sent by Gojo fans that Domain can't be amped by chants: 0 (Zero)

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So anyone who read thread this should be able to tell who has burden of proof.

You just listed two instances of Gojo and Sukuna flipping internal and external conditions through Binding Vows (increase external strength at the cost of internal strength, remove sure-hit inside to increase sure-hit output outside). No actual example of the enhancement of a Domain overall

Despite it's funny, it doesn't matter if Domain gets amped or not. Most of the arguments stem from Gojo's own assertions regarding Sukuna's ability to destroy barriers by swapping the conditions.

First of all, Sukuna did in fact modify his Domain's conditions to try and break UV's barrier faster


Gojo was wondering why Sukuna didn't try to manually destroy the weaker inside of the barrier

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Me: Sends logical explanation & scans.

Gojo fans: Nah I'd Nitpick. I'm gonna ignore all other arguments except Gojo vs Sukuna because I don't want to address them because I can't refute them. Chants are exclusive to red & HP only.

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Gojo: Sukuna stopped changing Domain conditions. He is taking Risker Path.

Keyword: Riskier

Gojo fans: Nah I would ignore this too.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Thank you for not giving an actual example of anyone enhancing their domain

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Appealing to ignorance is the only thing you can do. Thanks for Conceding with burden of proof. Still zero scans from your end to prove your point that Red and HP are the only technique which can be amped and Barriers can't be amped by chants and signs.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Domains by default have empowered words and hand signs. A lot of things do

Gojo and Sukuna's innate techniques are like the only two things shown so far to have extra words that aren't there by default that can be added to amplify them

I don't see why you're asserting that the burden of proof is on me to disprove the use of something that hasn't even been suggested. It's a slippery slope that requires speculation

Anyways, I'm signing off on this. I do not need to see another one of your messages trying to poison the well

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The narrative in the series establishes a general rule regarding cursed techniques being empowered with chants and signs. This supports my argument that it's reasonable to assume this applies to Domains as well unless specifically stated otherwise. in the series where cursed techniques are indeed empowered through chants and signs, emphasizing that this is a consistent pattern established in the narrative. It's logical to extend the principle of empowerment through chants and signs to Domains, as they are a form of cursed technique. Without evidence to the contrary, it's reasonable to assume they follow the same rules. For the sake of narrative consistency, it makes sense for Domains to be empowered in a similar manner to other cursed techniques. Deviating from this without explicit clarification would be inconsistent.

Burden of Proof: Reminding that the burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. If you're asserting that Domains cannot be further empowered, it's up to you to provide evidence to support that claim.

Occam's razor: By extending the principle of empowerment through chants and signs to Domains, I'm essentially simplifying the explanation by applying a consistent rule established within the narrative. It's a logical approach unless there's evidence to the contrary.

In conclusion: I got nothing else to prove.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I just wanna get it out of the way first that I currently have any strong opinion in regards to who I believe win. I'd say I'm neutral. So I hope this doesn't get toxic or anything. I just wanna give my opinion in regards to this Domain Expansion convo. Not the actual result of the match.

The narrative in the series establishes a general rule regarding cursed techniques being empowered with chants and signs. This supports my argument that it's reasonable to assume this applies to Domains as well unless specifically stated otherwise. in the series where cursed techniques are indeed empowered through chants and signs, emphasizing that this is a consistent pattern established in the narrative. It's logical to extend the principle of empowerment through chants and signs to Domains, as they are a form of cursed technique. Without evidence to the contrary, it's reasonable to assume they follow the same rules. For the sake of narrative consistency, it makes sense for Domains to be empowered in a similar manner to other cursed techniques. Deviating from this without explicit clarification would be inconsistent.

While I can certainly see where you come from, CT indeed do get stronger with hand gestures and chants. But do you think it would be fair to not consider barrier techniques Cursed Techniques to begin with? Cursed Techniques are in reference to innate techniques. The ones engraved into the brain of the user at birth. Whereas barriers are constructs of Cursed Energy which as stated in your scan, anyone can learn. Domain Expansion is a culmination of the two. The barrier being the "base", with the Cursed Technique being imbued into it to create a sure-hit effect. I think it'd be fair to say they could chant, and perhaps strengthen the sure-hit effect of the Domain, since that is explicitly a Cursed Technique. But I feel it may be a stretch to assume chants play a role in Domain clashes? If this was narratively important as you believe it to be, I feel it would've been highlighted in-universe. Especially in Gojo and Sukuna's battle with how much depth it goes into the Jujutsu system. Now, granted I'm not caught up since I'm a physical manga reader (I've only spoiled myself with the Gojo vs Sukuna fight), so I may change my mind as I read, but this is something I feel you should consider.

Occam's razor: By extending the principle of empowerment through chants and signs to Domains, I'm essentially simplifying the explanation by applying a consistent rule established within the narrative. It's a logical approach unless there's evidence to the contrary.

Extending the principle to something that in-universe is explicitly different is a assertion of its own to be fair. One would need evidence to suggest why that rule would apply to a technique that is inherently different. I would argue that complicates things rather than simplifying it when you start muddying the rules of Jujutsu into a more unified system when it's shown to be more nuanced imo.

What I will say though, is there might be evidence that Domain Expansions can be strengthened in clashes early on. But I'm not 100% certain. IIRC, there's a segment where Akutami explains how a Curtain (Another barrier techniques not imbued with a CT) can be strengthened or have rules set on it that might have evidence that barriers in and of themselves can be strengthened? Another way I think you could prove barriers get stronger with incantations is if you prove raw Cursed Energy can be strengthened with chants, given barriers are constructs created from Cursed Energy. So if Cursed Energy can be strengthened with chants, then it should follow suit that barriers would then as a result also be strengthened.

I have no strong position in regards to if I believe Domains can be strengthened with chants or not since I am not nearly informed enough to confidently make a deduction (Since again, I am not caught up). This was more just a conjecture on my behalf since I felt this convo was getting toxic and wanted to try and provide evidence and suggest evidence in favor of both sides.

That said, have a nice night or day ya'll.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I just wanna get it out of the way first that I currently have any strong opinion in regards to who I believe win. I'd say I'm neutral. So I hope this doesn't get toxic or anything. I just wanna give my opinion in regards to this Domain Expansion convo. Not the actual result of the match.

While I can certainly see where you come from, CT indeed do get stronger with hand gestures and chants. But do you think it would be fair to not consider barrier techniques Cursed Techniques to begin with? Cursed Techniques are in reference to innate techniques. The ones engraved into the brain of the user at birth. Whereas barriers are constructs of Cursed Energy which as stated in your scan, anyone can learn. Domain Expansion is a culmination of the two. The barrier being the "base", with the Cursed Technique being imbued into it to create a sure-hit effect. I think it'd be fair to say they could chant, and perhaps strengthen the sure-hit effect of the Domain, since that is explicitly a Cursed Technique. But I feel it may be a stretch to assume chants play a role in Domain clashes? If this was narratively important as you believe it to be, I feel it would've been highlighted in-universe. Especially in Gojo and Sukuna's battle with how much depth it goes into the Jujutsu system. Now, granted I'm not caught up since I'm a physical manga reader (I've only spoiled myself with the Gojo vs Sukuna fight), so I may change my mind as I read, but this is something I feel you should consider.

Extending the principle to something that in-universe is explicitly different is a assertion of its own to be fair. One would need evidence to suggest why that rule would apply to a technique that is inherently different. I would argue that complicates things rather than simplifying it when you start muddying the rules of Jujutsu into a more unified system when it's shown to be more nuanced imo.

What I will say though, is there might be evidence that Domain Expansions can be strengthened in clashes early on. But I'm not 100% certain. IIRC, there's a segment where Akutami explains how a Curtain (Another barrier techniques not imbued with a CT) can be strengthened or have rules set on it that might have evidence that barriers in and of themselves can be strengthened? Another way I think you could prove barriers get stronger with incantations is if you prove raw Cursed Energy can be strengthened with chants, given barriers are constructs created from Cursed Energy. So if Cursed Energy can be strengthened with chants, then it should follow suit that barriers would then as a result also be strengthened.

I have no strong position in regards to if I believe Domains can be strengthened with chants or not since I am not nearly informed enough to confidently make a deduction (Since again, I am not caught up). This was more just a conjecture on my behalf since I felt this convo was getting toxic and wanted to try and provide evidence and suggest evidence in favor of both sides.

That said, have a nice night or day ya'll.

Well, I understand your concerns, which is why I posted these scans earlier. Barriers are important to Domains; Barriers have chants and signs. Sorcerers reducing that and employing them in their domain is what makes their skillset. You know they need to chant DE in order to cast the domain, though there might be highly possible even further chants for Barriers. If a normal curtain/barrier has long chants even without sure-hit effects, it's illogical to assume the pinnacle of jujutsu DE is just two words, and they get the highest output with that only. Also Gojo states more polished Domain. Only way you can create good domain is based on Barriers conditions and range. Which suggest highly Chants and signs are at play.

Also, if we pay attention to Gojo vs. Sukuna, both have their signs active, trying to overpower one another. They are not shown chanting anything here. In Sukuna's case, his stomach mouth chants the incantations. It's mentioned in the same panel that chanting with a single mouth would strain the user, hence Sukuna has an advantage over others. It explains why other sorcerers don't consistently chant incantations for everything they use.

Yuta and Yuji were reducing Sukuna's CT (HWB) output, and Sukuna was using chants and signs to keep it up. Note that this is an Anti-Domain technique. There is also the fact that Sukuna is increasing Domain Amplification output. DA is technically DE without Sure Hit. DA > SD.

HWB is the original SD. We do know Simple Domain is also a small form of domain depending on barrier conditions. What I'm saying is, if Anti-Domain Technique, which has barriers but still can be increased or decreased based on chants, it should be logical to say Domains also should be capable of. From what we understand, full chants & signs output = 80% in Gojo's case. In Sukuna's case, it's 120%. But normally during fights, they would shorten that because, you know, full chanting takes too much time.

Also look at Kenny's Hand sign when he used DE. Later when changes it and crushes Yuki's SD.

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Bonus:

His basic dismantles already amped by True form with signs you can clearly see the difference of him sending dismantle without signs and with signs. Narratively this would mean these dismantle with signs are above his normal dismantle without signs

I would also like to address this HWB. He uses 4 hands signs. So DE with 4 hands wouldn't be same as 2 hands. Signs would indeed play a very big role.