Zeref dragneel against Son goku

[Mertullah]

@Quintessence_PE thanks to
goku is not dead
goku is not gone

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm not sure about this as it's not stated if he fights to kill or not, but in any case since this ability is a controllable ability by him won't he need a time to control it?

Standard Battle Assumptions are that both characters are in-character, but willing to kill if they normally aren't. And in this case, no he won't need time to control it. If he doesn't value his opponent's life, he just has control immediately (as shown throughout the Alvarez Arc, as by that time he's forgotten the value of human life)

but this ability is said to spread.

Well, yeah. It would spread over a range of hundreds of kilometers. That's how that move works

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Standard Battle Assumptions are that both characters are in-character, but willing to kill if they normally aren't. And in this case, no he won't need time to control it. If he doesn't value his opponent's life, he just has control immediately (as shown throughout the Alvarez Arc, as by that time he's forgotten the value of human life)

that's what I'm talking about, if zeref is controlling this ability, he also needs to think to realize this control, but goku can make a move on him much earlier and much faster.

Well, yeah. It would spread over a range of hundreds of kilometers. That's how that move works

then Goku can act before the spread.

 

[Epiccheev]

Natsu's brother for Clover's reasons FRA

 

[Robo432343]

grace
i counted the votes and there are more votes for zeref
this match can be added

 

[Quintessence_PE]

grace
i counted the votes and there are more votes for zeref
this match can be added

I have no idea how you count the votes but there are more votes for goku

 

[Robo432343]

I have no idea how you count the votes but there are more votes for goku

no?
zeref wins 19-17

 

[Quintessence_PE]

no?
zeref wins 19-17

vote table not updated because chardee is not active
current status goku 23 votes zeref 18

 

[LordGinSama]

Both are Yhwach victims.

 

[Fezzih_007]

grace
i counted the votes and there are more votes for zeref
this match can be added

Not really, since

When the thread reaches a valid vote count, a grace period of 24 hours will be acknowledged, starting when the final vote that resulted in valid vote count was posted. After this time period the match can be added,

It would need to wait a 24h períod for the last vote.
And:

For a verdict, there must be at least seven votes in favor of one character/team, with a minimum difference of three votes.

And i don't think this can be added, since this is a mismatch.

 

[Robo432343]

And i don't think this can be added, since this is a mismatch.

i asked this to be closed but no one wants to close it

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Standard Battle Assumptions are that both characters are in-character, but willing to kill if they normally aren't.

That willing to kill bit has been changed a while back. SBA has this for state of mind now:

State of mind: In character, but will attempt to win the battle. Characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.
Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.

 

[Robo432343]

vote table not updated because chardee is not active
current status goku 23 votes zeref 18

No
the updated votes are 19 zeref 18 goku

 

[Quintessence_PE]

No
the updated votes are 19 zeref 18 goku

I don't think you counted correctly, I checked again and after the last edit goku got 5 more votes and zeref lost 1 vote

 

[CloverDragon03]

If Goku tries to make a move on Zeref in CQC when the fight starts, bro just gets killed by Death Predation, that's all I'm saying. Ultra Instinct won't save him from a massive AoE and he can't exactly Instant Transmission away either

 

[Fezzih_007]

If Goku tries to make a move on Zeref in CQC when the fight starts, bro just gets killed by Death Predation, that's all I'm saying. Ultra Instinct won't save him from a massive AoE and he can't exactly Instant Transmission away either

Yeah, the only way Goku is winning is If he immediality Góes for a Kamehameha to send Zeref away.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah, the only way Goku is winning is If he immediality Góes for a Kamehameha to send Zeref away.

And typically speaking, that's not his first move. In fact, he's never used ki blasts as his first move in any of his appearances with Ultra Instinct

 

[Quintessence_PE]

If Goku tries to make a move on Zeref in CQC when the fight starts, bro just gets killed by Death Predation, that's all I'm saying. Ultra Instinct won't save him from a massive AoE and he can't exactly Instant Transmission away either

I'm talking about Goku being able to summon Zeno or throw the zeref into an empty part of space because he moves before him.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

And typically speaking, that's not his first move. In fact, he's never used ki blasts as his first move in any of his appearances with Ultra Instinct

dude stop using this bullshit argument, if zeref is fighting to kill then goku is fighting to kill and if goku wants to kill then he will use his most powerful attacks.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm talking about Goku being able to summon Zeno or throw the zerefi into an empty part of space because he moves before him.

Goku doesn't summon Zeno in character. Please stop with this.

Throwing Zeref would require him to get close, at which point he'd be killed by Death Predation

 

[Robo432343]

And typically speaking, that's not his first move. In fact, he's never used ki blasts as his first move in any of his appearances with Ultra Instinct

the goku supporters are trying to say that he will predict the death hax and summon the zeno button

ridiculous.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

the goku supporters are trying to say that he will predict the death hax and summon the zeno button

ridiculous.

you obviously didn't read my comments

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Goku doesn't summon Zeno in character. Please stop with this.

Throwing Zeref would require him to get close, at which point he'd be killed by Death Predation

brother are you out of your mind if zeref is fighting to kill then gokuda is fighting to kill in this case he can use summoning zeno if he wants to kill he will use ki blast or kamehameha as the first attack.

 

[CloverDragon03]

dude stop using this bullshit argument, if zeref is fighting to kill then goku is fighting to kill and if goku wants to kill then he will use his most powerful attacks.

Please note that I'm referring to each characters' first moves, so you don't misunderstand me. Zeref's first move is typically AoE Death Hax, while Goku's is usually some form of melee offense in Ultra Instinct. I'm not restricting Goku's most powerful attacks, I'm saying that's not what his first move usually is

 

[Fezzih_007]

And typically speaking, that's not his first move. In fact, he's never used ki blasts as his first move in any of his appearances with Ultra Instinct

Well to be fair, he also never fought someone who is 4km away for him, so he could potentialy use a Kamehameha on Zeref because of the distance instead of Flying that distance to punch the Guy.

But i not sure about that.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Well to be fair, he also never fought someone who is 4km away for him, so he could potentialy use a Kamehameha on Zeref because of the distance instead of Flying that distance to punch the Guy.

But i not sure about that.

Take his final battle with Jiren. When Goku's faced with someone far away from him in Ultra Instinct, his first course of action is to fly right to them

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Please note that I'm referring to each characters' first moves, so you don't misunderstand me. Zeref's first move is typically AoE Death Hax, while Goku's is usually some form of melee offense in Ultra Instinct. I'm not restricting Goku's most powerful attacks, I'm saying that's not what his first move usually is

You said that Zeref fights with the intention to kill, so gokuda will fight with this intention and will give him his strongest attack at the beginning.

 

[Robo432343]

you obviously didn't read my comments

i saw your comments and cried reading them

this whole time you're trying to say that goku will predict zerefs death hax and have enough time to press the zeno button ffs

 

[CloverDragon03]

brother are you out of your mind if zeref is fighting to kill then gokuda is fighting to kill in this case he can use summoning zeno if he wants to kill he will use ki blast or kamehameha as the first attack.

The stonewalling here is getting real annoying, like you're attempting to create wincons that don't get used in character.

Goku does not summon Zeno in character. He likes to fight someone at their best by himself, and the only time he ever summoned Zeno was after he accidentally pulled out the button. You are misunderstanding Goku's character.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

The stonewalling here is getting real annoying, like you're attempting to create wincons that don't get used in character.

Goku does not summon Zeno in character. He likes to fight someone at their best by himself, and the only time he ever summoned Zeno was after he accidentally pulled out the button. You are misunderstanding Goku's character.

You're the one who told me they fight to kill
A goku who fights to kill can do that.

 

[CloverDragon03]

You said that Zeref fights with the intention to kill, so gokuda will fight with this intention and will give him his strongest attack at the beginning.

You fail to understand the difference between "fighting with killing intent" vs. "pulling out his strongest move from the start." Goku is a martial artist. He gauges his opponents. He doesn't start by throwing out a Kamehameha first thing, especially not in Ultra Instinct where this is never shown to happen

 

[CloverDragon03]

You're the one who told me they fight to kill
A goku who fights to kill can do that.

In-character but willing to kill. Emphasis on in-character

 

[Quintessence_PE]

You fail to understand the difference between "fighting with killing intent" vs. "pulling out his strongest move from the start." Goku is a martial artist. He gauges his opponents. He doesn't start by throwing out a Kamehameha first thing, especially not in Ultra Instinct where this is never shown to happen

it is illogical to say that he would try to measure his opponent's strength in a fight he started to kill. lol

 

[Fezzih_007]

Take his final battle with Jiren. When Goku's faced with someone far away from him in Ultra Instinct, his first course of action is to fly right to them

Is probally because punching is way more faster than charging a attack trought, and the distance he is traveling is not exactly 4km too.

But yeah, he still would probally Go for meele.

 

[Mertullah]

it is illogical to say that he would try to measure his opponent's strength in a fight he started to kill. lol

let him cook

 

[CloverDragon03]

it is illogical to say that he would try to measure his opponent's strength in a fight he started to kill. lol

He is a martial artist... He literally does this even against opponents like Cell who are threatening to wipe out the planet. That's who he is...

This approach requires you to literally get Goku's character wrong

 

[Quintessence_PE]

He is a martial artist... He literally does this even against opponents like Cell who are threatening to wipe out the planet. That's who he is...

The point here is that there is a distance between them, and since Goku wants to kill from this distance, he will send a ki attack or a kamehameha at him.

 

[Fezzih_007]

The discussio above is kinda useless, since SBA don't say they are willing to kill.

 

[Quintessence_PE]

i saw your comments and cried reading them

this whole time you're trying to say that goku will predict zerefs death hax and have enough time to press the zeno button ffs

goku zeref will attack before you can think, and even though I told you that, it's weird that you got it so backwards

 

[Quintessence_PE]

The discussio above is kinda useless, since SBA don't say they are willing to kill.

Yes, that's what I said, but it affects whether Zeref can use the death manipulation.