Heian Era Sukuna vs Satoru Gojo

[Nierre]

Gojo FRA

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The problem is you keep bringing up Itadori as if Sukuna's True Form WAS Itadori's body. But it wasn't... like they aren't even the same person at all. Why would Itadori with 20f be = to Heian era Sukuna, but not 20f Megumi?

I read your other comments and arguments.of yours is repeating so we would be going in circles and All I am gonna say is I highly Disagree. For the sake of not want to drag our debate I will agree to disagree with you.

When taking a hosts body, it's Sukuna's power + the host. So naturally 20f Itadori and 20f Megumi should be > Heian era Sukuna.

This was never stated or implied. Body is Reconstructed not added to Host body. I don't know where you got this idea. Also for a fact Narrator clearly mentioned "with this physique he destroyed heian Era top fighters" he didn't say anything about Megumi body amping Sukuna anyway.

Having CE not on heian Era level ≠ having same vessel.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If Sukuna trained for it yeah but in the heat of battle? Nah he had to rely on Mahoraga to help him speed up the process. It would’ve been damn near impossible.

Extension Technique can be obtained but it's just hard. What i was saying is if Sukuna tries to Play and Hit and run for the time being and craft that he should be.

You and I know Gojo has at least two wincons, this thread has just been about how likely those wincons would happen.

He only had one Wincon which is making Sukuna tank UV. That is we need to assume Sukuna let's Gojo him for no reason.

With Gojo’s 3v1 performance I honestly think this is an Incon given Gojo’s creativity and skill.

From chapter 223 to chapter 231 there was no Mahogara Gojo never know about adaptation this isn't true about 3 vs 1 shit was real throughout the fight.

Since there’s no pressure coming from Mahoraga’s adaptation Gojo should be able to fight more smoothly with less things to worry about on his mind.

Only from chapter 231 to chapter 235. Previous 7-8 chapters were carried by Sukuna alone who was taking riskier Path.

His objective will be how to deal with the domain expansion, domain amplification, multiple limbs and chants. This fight can go either way.

Not to mention the fact how Domain battle itself would go in Sukuna favour everytime if he used his Heien Era form.

• Gojo and Meguna were equal inside the domain sure hit. Both were trying to Overpower one another
• Gojo in the beginning of the series mentioned how a domain can be Overpowered by Cursed Energy and better refinement
• So Obviously Heina Era Sukuna higher output with second mouth chants would change domain clash from what happened in manga.

I already pointed out how DE just got wrecked because of higher output from Chants. So Gojo has no way of amping his domain like Sukuna with second mouth.

Also I have already mentioned multiple times that Sukuna should be capable of Cloaking his cursed tools which are sharp objects and bypassing infinity like how he used Architectures. Even Gojo himself states that in chapter 228. No one cared to address how Gojo gonna survive the hit if gets caught in 2 arms of Sukuna and remaining 2 arms puts those objects into his head and kills him.

Currently fire arrow also scaled to low 7-B which is higher than Gojos durability by Wiki standards. Don't see how Gojo when having CT burnout gonna tank it.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Gojo, even when Mahoraga was not there, failed to do this. He was actively playing the ranged game against Sukuna to circumvent his Amplification and it was ineffective. Him doing this again wouldn't help.

If you mean him utilizing teleportation, he uses this never in the fight, even when he can.

They were like 5+ feet apart in the scan you sent inside of a building... A better instance to demonstrate your point would be when Gojo used his TK to fling a bridge at Sukuna to keep him far away, to which Sukuna just jumped back over.

He uses teleportation over and over again in his first fight with Sukuna.

He can with Domain Expansion, which Sukuna would pull of much faster since he doesn't want to job to neutralize the Limitless. Not mentioning how he has an extra set of limbs so he can fight and execute the hands signs necessary for Expansion, and even without this his Cursed Energy efficiency and speed is superior to Gojo's.

Sukuna can also amplify with a Domain open, and his output rapidly increases as he adapts, which is amplified with chants.

If he uses a Domain Expansion, Gojo will counter with his own. They will clash evenly, and both of them will still be able to use their techniques... which means Infinity blocks out ALL of Sukuna's attacks unless he uses DA anyways. So yeah, while he CAN use DE, that'd still result in a situation where he needs to use DA. And as stated, DA means he can't use his techniques.

The scan you link explicitly states his efficiency isn't better than Gojo's thanks to Six Eyes... Don't see anywhere where it's stated chants amplify barrier techniques or even just regular ol' punches. As far as I'm aware, that's exclusive to CT's.

Gojo can only spawn Blue inside of you if he is ALSO inside of you. If he could do this from a distance, he would've, and like teleportation, Satoru NEVER utilizes Blue in this manner. He's not "smart enough" to do it, if he was he would have done it when he should have.

Linked a scan earlier where he spawns Blue on the limbs of his opponent without "being inside of them". Though it's possible you didn't see that since it was from yesterday.

He never uses teleportation in his fight with Sukuna, not once. He only uses Telekinesis once at the beginning of the fight, then never again. Not to mention, Sukuna would negate Telekinesis with Amplification.

The rest of your points I agree with but they are so minor/don't have much impact on the fight that I wouldn't have addressed them anyways.

Voting Sukuna.

As I said before, he utilized it in his first fight with Sukuna to beat him to a pulp. A good chunk of their fight was in Domains where his were shattered and thus put his techniques in burnout. And with how Sukuna could adapt to his techniques, he had no choice but to get in close and fist fight more often than he usually would. Because otherwise, all of his techniques would be adapted to in short times notice. My strategy falls on its ass when it involves spamming moves that would only speed up Mahoraga's adaptation and make him immune to all of Satoru's options. Works better against a dude who can't adapt to them whatsoever.

Sukuna would also of course adapt to Telekinesis if he used that too much, so would again be forced to use it sparingly + a lot of the fight was in close quarters within a city with a lot of buildings. He would also eventually need to get close to use Domain Expansion, so he couldn't spam TK the entire time. In this match, Sukuna has no counters for being zoned out unlike in the actual fight, so TK is more viable.

I read your other comments and arguments.of yours is repeating so we would be going in circles and All I am gonna say is I highly Disagree. For the sake of not want to drag our debate I will agree to disagree with you.

Fair enough. I didn't walk in expecting the guy with the Sukuna pfp to agree with me tbf. Though I will say before thinking about the match in detail, I was actually under the impression Sukuna would win too Maybe not obvious, but I'm also a Sukuna stan.

This was never stated or implied. Body is Reconstructed not added to Host body. I don't know where you got this idea. Also for a fact Narrator clearly mentioned "with this physique he destroyed heian Era top fighters" he didn't say anything about Megumi body amping Sukuna anyway.

Having CE not on heian Era level ≠ having same vessel.

Consuming the finger literally adds some of his power to the host. What you're implying is that when they eat the fingers, they don't absorb ANY portion of Sukuna's power and don't become a bit stronger. So what, do you think he reincarnates in the host with none of his power and has to train his own Cursed Energy to be strong again? Because if so, eating additional fingers wouldn't matter. They wouldn't grant anything.

Second part means pretty much nothing. Just says his physique let him beat the top fighters of the Heian era. Doesn't really mean anything unless you're saying Heian top fighters >> Gojo or smth.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Gojo FRA

Ik what youre doing

 

[LaserPrecision]

What's the current vote count btw? I've seen like 3 or 4 people vote that haven't had their vote added.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Speed and Arnold dont count

Nierre... Im sus with his vote

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I could null 90% of the Gojo's votes seeing how dumb they are by ignoring, like, everything about the series, but ima dont start such conflict

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Fair enough. I didn't walk in expecting the guy with the Sukuna pfp to agree with me tbf. Though I will say before thinking about the match in detail, I was actually under the impression Sukuna would win too Maybe not obvious, but I'm also a Sukuna stan.

I'm more of Yuji stan than Sukuna

Consuming the finger literally adds some of his power to the host. What you're implying is that when they eat the fingers, they don't absorb ANY portion of Sukuna's power and don't become a bit stronger. So what, do you think he reincarnates in the host with none of his power and has to train his own Cursed Energy to be strong again? Because if so, eating additional fingers wouldn't matter. They wouldn't grant anything.

There is nothing states anything about Sukuna getting amp from Megumi body. Especially when you take a look at his body durability is weaker than Grade 1 Sorcerer level & has to make up for his skills with His Shikigami. Feel free to send me scans for where his body is same level of perfection which Sukuna is called.

Second part means pretty much nothing. Just says his physique let him beat the top fighters of the Heian era. Doesn't really mean anything unless you're saying Heian top fighters >> Gojo or smth.

It's called perfection bruh. I wasn't saying Heian Era top fighters > Gojo i was talking author differentiating between both.

Unless you want to believe Gege was smoking something when he wrote perfection word for Sukuna physique but he was weaker than Yuji and Megumi physique overall.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I could null 90% of the Gojo's votes seeing how dumb they are by ignoring, like, everything about the series, but ima dont start such conflict

FRA train is going crazy for Gojo.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Speed is mindless vote yeah, thats why

Arnold is because he dont really believe that Gojo wins. He just want the conclusion to be icon so he decided to vote for Gojo to make the match even

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm more of Yuji stan than Sukuna

Yuji could use more stans

There is nothing states anything about Sukuna getting amp from Megumi body. Especially when you take a look at his body durability is weaker than Grade 1 Sorcerer level & has to make up for his skills with His Shikigami. Feel free to send me scans for where his body is same level of perfection which Sukuna is called.

I don't think this gets into the meat and potatoes of my point. If eating fingers didn't bring back more of Sukuna's power, he wouldn't eat more than one to begin with. He'd simply work on his physique and cursed energy output to get back to his old level. Instead he eats all of his fingers which have Cursed Energy imbued into them. Thus why it makes weak Curses way stronger upon eating them.

It's called perfection bruh. I wasn't saying Heian Era top fighters > Gojo i was talking author differentiating between both.

Unless you want to believe Gege was smoking something when he wrote perfection word for Sukuna physique but he was weaker than Yuji and Megumi physique overall.

His build is called perfection because it's best acclimated to Jujutsu than any other body in the series. It's not like Fushiguro's own base power/cursed energy disappears when he transforms. Transformed Sukuna that we see fight Kashimo should just on attrition of having two pools of cursed energy (Fushiguro + his own) should be > himself from the Heian era. Are you actually under the impression that Sukuna is only equal with himself from the past as of now?

I was never talking about physique. I was saying that Sukuna's form we see against Kashimo would be a 20 in terms of cursed energy/output on a scale to 1-20, and Fushiguro would be at least a 1. Since Fushiguro's power doesn't magically disappear, the 20 and 1 would be added together. Akin to fusion. The same way a curse gets the strength of a finger added to their own base power.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Speed is mindless vote yeah, thats why

Arnold is because he dont really believe that Gojo wins. He just want the conclusion to be icon so he decided to vote for Gojo to make the match even

Lmao, won't say anything about speed.

That's a valid vote though? They want the match to be inconclusive, so they voted Gojo to make the match incon. What's wrong with that?

 

[Nierre]

Ik what youre doing

Speed and Arnold dont count

Nierre... Im sus with his vote

I could null 90% of the Gojo's votes seeing how dumb they are by ignoring, like, everything about the series, but ima dont start such conflict

????

I genuinely vote for Gojo FRA, tf

I was gonna vote incon, but the Gojo arguments were more convincing, don't take away my vote.

How is speed a "mindless vote"?? yall are literally manipulating votes, what the ****

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Im not gonna take away your vote, chill

That's a valid vote though? They want the match to be inconclusive, so they voted Gojo to make the match incon. What's wrong with that?

Thats not a valid vote. If you think the match is inconclusive, so your vote is gonna be inconclusive. We have a "icon" category for a reason

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yuji could use more stans

I don't think this gets into the meat and potatoes of my point. If eating fingers didn't bring back more of Sukuna's power, he wouldn't eat more than one to begin with. He'd simply work on his physique and cursed energy output to get back to his old level. Instead he eats all of his fingers which have Cursed Energy imbued into them.

Sukuna was regaining his power nowhere it stated he was going far beyond than what he was.
Additionally if he was already stronger than his Heien Era when Uraume said she couldn't find last finger Sukuna wouldn't have said anything about compensate.

Thus why it makes weak Curses way stronger upon eating them.

Sukuna isn't a curse.

His build is called perfection because it's best acclimated to Jujutsu than any other body in the series. It's not like Fushiguro's own base power/cursed energy disappears when he transforms. Transformed Sukuna that we see fight Kashimo should just on attrition of having two pools of cursed energy (Fushiguro + his own) should be > himself from the Heian era. Are you actually under the impression that Sukuna is only equal with himself from the past as of now?

I was never talking about physique. I was saying that Sukuna's form we see against Kashimo would be a 20 in terms of cursed energy/output on a scale to 1-20, and Fushiguro would be at least a 1. Since Fushiguro's power doesn't magically disappear, the 20 and 1 would be added together. Akin to fusion. The same way a curse gets the strength of a finger added to their own base power.

Megumi has nowhere near 1F level power Physically. Dude almost died to finger Bearer and had to backstab it.

I don't think you get my point.
Take Playful Cloud for example
Pre awakened Maki using Playful Cloud= Meguna
Toji using Playful Cloud = Sukuna true form.
Here just think the playful cloud = Cursed Energy.

One more example is Yuji vs Yuta which I already sent the scans
Yuji physically stronger than Yuta but lacked CE to match yuta while Yuta was weaker than Yuji had CE to compensate for that.
What would have happened if Yuji had same level of CE on par with Yuta ?

Anyway I don't think I can make you understand.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Sukuna was regaining his power nowhere it stated he was going far beyond than what he was.
Additionally if he was already stronger than his Heien Era when Uraume said she couldn't find last finger Sukuna wouldn't have said anything about compensate.

I didn't say far beyond tho? I'm just saying that the current Sukuna as of the latest chapter is 20 Fingers worth of power + Megumi.

Whereas in the past it was 20 Fingers worth of power + nothing

Wasn't arguing a substantial difference. The fingers are a bigger boost than what Megumi would provide.

Sukuna isn't a curse.

I didn't say he was tho? I just said it's clear his strength is added to the host thus why Curses become so much stronger upon eating them.

I don't think you get my point.
Take Playful Cloud for example
Pre awakened Maki using Playful Cloud= Meguna
Toji using Playful Cloud = Sukuna true form.
Here just think the playful cloud = Cursed Energy.

One more example is Yuji vs Yuta which I already sent the scans
Yuji physically stronger than Yuta but lacked CE to match yuta whole Yuta was weaker than Yuji had CE to compensate for that.
What would have happened if Yuji had same level of CE on par with Yuta ?

Anyway I don't think I can make you understand.

I understand what you mean. Just disagree.

Thats not a valid vote. If you think the match is inconclusive, so your vote is gonna be inconclusive. We have a "icon" category for a reason

Because if they voted incon the match wouldn't go into incon due to the vote discrepancy... if voting for Gojo can also cause an incon result for the profiles, I see no reason for them to not be able to do so.

 

[azontr]

They were like 5+ feet apart in the scan you sent inside of a building... A better instance to demonstrate your point would be when Gojo used his TK to fling a bridge at Sukuna to keep him far away, to which Sukuna just jumped back over

Thank you for further proving my point, ig?

He uses teleportation over and over again in his first fight with Sukuna.

Yet didn't in his final fight with Sukuna. If he did it against 1F Sukuna yet didn't against 20F, that's basically proof that it wouldn't have been a viable strategy to begin with.

If he uses a Domain Expansion, Gojo will counter with his own.

And it would be immediately shattered, because 1. Same reasons it was initially shattered 2. Sukuna expanded it first, hence spawning his Domain inside of Sukuna's Domain so it can IMMEDIATELY destroy it from the outside only works against Gojo and burns out his CT faster than it was the first time.

They will clash evenly, and both of them will still be able to use their techniques... which means Infinity blocks out ALL of Sukuna's attacks unless he uses DA anyways. So yeah, while he CAN use DE, that'd still result in a situation where he needs to use DA. And as stated, DA means he can't use his techniques.

Sukuna can amplify with a Domain open, and utilize the technique imbued into the Domain itself which he can use in place of his Innate Technique. That's... literally what he did.

The scan you link explicitly states his efficiency isn't better than Gojo's thanks to Six Eyes...

I mean this statement is contradicted in Sukuna being able to both amplify and expand a Domain at the same time (something Gojo himself deemed nonsensical), and in the fact that this is not True Form Sukuna Kashimo refers to, who has much greater efficiency due to being able to chant and perform hand signs much quicker.

Linked a scan earlier where he spawns Blue on the limbs of his opponent without "being inside of them". Though it's possible you didn't see that since it was from yesterday.

Coat Hanger guy was fodder. Gojo never utilizes Blue in such a way again, nor did he ever do so chronologically BEFORE this (Hidden Inventory Arc).

As I said before, he utilized it in his first fight with Sukuna to beat him to a pulp.

Read above.

Yet didn't in his final fight with Sukuna. If he did it against 1F Sukuna yet didn't against 20F, that's basically proof that it wouldn't have been a viable strategy to begin with.

A good chunk of their fight was in Domains where his were shattered and thus put his techniques in burnout

Which would happen much faster and much more frequently due to Sukuna expanding his Domain likely much faster than Gojo.

And with how Sukuna could adapt to his techniques, he had no choice but to get in close and fist fight more often than he usually would. Because otherwise, all of his techniques would be adapted to in short times notice. My strategy falls on its ass when it involves spamming moves that would only speed up Mahoraga's adaptation and make him immune to all of Satoru's options. Works better against a dude who can't adapt to them whatsoever.

Okay but you're overestimating the speed of Mahoraga's adaptation. It is not an instantaneous process. Gojo is evidently familiar with Mahoraga's capabilities, and knows this, yet he did not opt for several options that would've given him a great advantage at certain times where Mahoraga would not have adapted to it before Gojo could end the fight.

Using an ability a few times does not guarantee instant adaptation. If this was the case, Gojo wouldn't have spammed Red and Blue so much, because they would've become useless, as you yourself said. If Gojo didn't use certain abilities, even with this information, Mahoraga had a scarce role. He just knew it wouldn't have worked anyways.

The fact that he didn't even use TK (or teleportation) on Sukuna before Mahoraga came into play more often, before their initial Domain clashes, only further proves my point.

 

[azontr]

Don't see anywhere where it's stated chants amplify barrier techniques or even just regular ol' punches. As far as I'm aware, that's exclusive to CT's.

A Domain is... imbued with a CT. Thats how a Domain is even formed, by imbuing a CT into a barrier lol. I don't see why Chants would be able to amp a CT not imbued into a barrier, yet can't boost one when it's imbued into a barrier...?

Responding separately because I forgot this.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I could null 90% of the Gojo's votes seeing how dumb they are by ignoring, like, everything about the series, but ima dont start such conflict

You’re definitely manipulating votes.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I didn't say far beyond tho? I'm just saying that the current Sukuna as of the latest chapter is 20 Fingers worth of power + Megumi.

If you think Megumi compensation of around 0.2 level of Sukuna true form physique is big difference I can't help it.

Whereas in the past it was 20 Fingers worth of power + nothing

Again this is wrong
In the past Sukuna has his True form + 20 fingers powers combined together
Currently he had weak ass Megumi body + 20 fingers combined.
Both are different cases
Also Why assume Sukuna Reconstructed his body and added Megumi Physique to it? This is big of an headcanon.

Wasn't arguing a substantial difference. The fingers are a bigger boost than what Megumi would provide.

Megumi with his shit ass durability which even Haruta can bypass is nowhere providing any boost to Sukuna physicals.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yet didn't in his final fight with Sukuna. If he did it against 1F Sukuna yet didn't against 20F, that's basically proof that it wouldn't have been a viable strategy to begin with.

Or he just realized through the multitude of techniques he had inherited, that flying away wouldn't be beneficial to him? Without Ten Shadow's he doesn't need to have the same concern.

And it would be immediately shattered, because 1. Same reasons it was initially shattered 2. Sukuna expanded it first, hence spawning his Domain inside of Sukuna's Domain so it can IMMEDIATELY destroy it from the outside only works against Gojo and burns out his CT faster than it was the first time.

And then Gojo learned to counter it. Made it last 3 entire minutes.

Sukuna can amplify with a Domain open, and utilize the technique imbued into the Domain itself which he can use in place of his Innate Technique. That's... literally what he did.

You can ONLY utilize the technique/sure-hit imbued into the barrier. But that's obvious. My last response should've made that clear. In a even domain however, both sure hits are canceled out. Thus he couldn't even use the technique imbued in the barrier in place of his actual technique.

Coat Hanger guy was fodder. Gojo never utilizes Blue in such a way again, nor did he ever do so chronologically BEFORE this (Hidden Inventory Arc).

Because most of his enemies don't call for such a necessity. And using it against Sukuna would be bad. As that would opt him to use Mahoraga to adapt to it. Now that's no longer a concern, and it is one of his ONLY methods to win. It would thus necessitate he uses such a technique.

Okay but you're overestimating the speed of Mahoraga's adaptation. It is not an instantaneous process. Gojo is evidently familiar with Mahoraga's capabilities, and knows this, yet he did not opt for several options that would've given him a great advantage at certain times where Mahoraga would not have adapted to it before Gojo could end the fight.

Gojo wasn't entirely sure HOW Mahoraga's adaptation worked IIRC. There were several theories up in the air, up until the end where Sukuna revealed it. He outright admitted to disliking the prospect of his Techniques becoming useless as the fight advances. And depending on the conditions of Mahoraga's ability, he would just speed that process up significantly.

Using an ability a few times does not guarantee instant adaptation. If this was the case, Gojo wouldn't have spammed Red and Blue so much, because they would've become useless, as you yourself said. If Gojo didn't use certain abilities, even with this information, Mahoraga had a scarce role. He just knew it wouldn't have worked anyways.

Didn't Gojo purposely only use Blue for a section of the fight because he didn't want Sukuna adapting to Red, and then tried to pull it off when he didn't anticipate it? Stop assuming I'm saying Mahoraga has instant adaptation that negs Gojo's options instantly. My position from the start is that Gojo without having to worry about being jumped or Mahoraga would have far more freedom with his Cursed Techniques. It's that simple.

The fact that he didn't even use TK (or teleportation) on Sukuna before Mahoraga came into play more often, before their initial Domain clashes, only further proves my point.

Or he just knew that he could summon Mahoraga at any time and start the clock for adaptation against his technique... he didn't know Sukuna could utilize Mahoraga's adaptation without summoning him at first, true. But he was fully aware he could summon Mahoraga in general if need be. If he spammed Blue, Red, Teleportation, and Telekinesis as I advised against Sukuna, he certainly would've made use of Mahoraga far earlier on Or rather likely have adapted him in secret.

The very fact he spammed it against 1 Finger Sukuna who couldn't do so makes it quite obvious that he decided to take a different approach because of who the vessel was. The bottom line is that Fushiguro's technique makes the battle more of a headache for Gojo. It's not that complicated.

A Domain is... imbued with a CT. Thats how a Domain is even formed, by imbuing a CT into a barrier lol. I don't see why Chants would be able to amp a CT not imbued into a barrier, yet can't boost one when it's imbued into a barrier...?

I was referring to Domain Amplification. As Domain Amplification is like an extension of barrier techniques. The way you had worded your reply made it seem as though he could use chants to strengthen Domain Amplification itself to punch harder.

 

[LaserPrecision]

If you think Megumi compensation of around 0.2 level of Sukuna true form physique is big difference I can't help it.

In the comment you literally replied to I said it wasn't a big difference

Again this is wrong
In the past Sukuna has his True form + 20 fingers powers combined together
Currently he had weak ass Megumi body + 20 fingers combined.
Both are different cases
Also Why assume Sukuna Reconstructed his body and added Megumi Physique to it? This is big of an headcanon.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. He didn't have 20 Fingers + his true form. He just had his full power. And when he turned into a cursed object, he distributed his full power amongst the 20 fingers. This would only work if Sukuna distributed only a part of his power into his fingers, and the rest of his power was left in his initial vessel. Which isn't stated to be the case as far as I'm aware of.

Stop bringing up physique. I'm referring solely to the fact that Fushiguro's Cursed Energy would naturally be added to the pool of Sukuna's Cursed Energy. Otherwise you're suggesting Fushiguro's cursed energy just magically vanished in place of Sukuna's. If that were the case, the vessel strength wouldn't matter at all, because their strength/cursed energy is removed (or rather not added) to his own strength. For you to be arguing Sukuna was stronger with Sukuna as as a vessel would mean you have to accept that the vessel's power is added to his own.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I was referring to Domain Amplification. As Domain Amplification is like an extension of barrier techniques. The way you had worded your reply made it seem as though he could use chants to strengthen Domain Amplification itself to punch harder.

Meguna was able to strengthen his DA. I don't see why Sukuna true form can't.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. He didn't have 20 Fingers + his true form.

So his true form spammed out of nowhere Gege was lying when he said Sukuna had 4 arms and two face in heian Era?

He just had his full power. And when he turned into a cursed object, he distributed his full power amongst the 20 fingers. This would only work if Sukuna distributed only a part of his power into his fingers, and the rest of his power was left in his initial vessel. Which isn't stated to be the case as far as I'm aware of.

20F carried his CE Output and CE pool of Sukuna. Nowhere stated they also carried his physiques powers. I don't think you get the point where I'm constantly differentiating between CE output & Physical body raw strength.

Stop bringing up physique. I'm referring solely to the fact that Fushiguro's Cursed Energy would naturally be added to the pool of Sukuna's Cursed Energy. Otherwise you're suggesting Fushiguro's cursed energy just magically vanished in place of Sukuna's. If that were the case, the vessel strength wouldn't matter at all, because their strength/cursed energy is removed (or rather not added) to his own strength. For you to be arguing Sukuna was stronger with Sukuna as as a vessel would mean you have to accept that the vessel's power is added to his own.

Having Boundless Cursed Energy ≠ Cursed Energy Output. So even if you add thousands times of additional cursed energy to Anyone it doens't matter if they lacked the Output. By your logic Yuta should smoke Gojo if we solely go on based on CE. Physiques does matter it's more like how Cursed tool like Playful Cloud is amped with CE to land more damage so obviously your example of Megumi CE pool addition to Sukuna wouldn't matter

 

[azontr]

Or he just realized through the multitude of techniques he had inherited, that flying away wouldn't be beneficial to him? Without Ten Shadow's he doesn't need to have the same concern.

There's no reason that 10 Shadows would've somehow negated the benefit of literal teleportation, which has such a range that it was implied he could immediately escape the range of Sukuna's Domain (200 meters) if he hadn't burned out his CT when his Domain broke. Not a SINGLE Shikigami that can be summoned by the 10S technique negates this potential benefit, not even Mahoraga, because Mahoraga can't ******* teleport or fly lmao.

And then Gojo learned to counter it. Made it last 3 entire minutes.

Against a Sukuna who was jobbing, letting Gojo live because he wanted to adapt to Infinity.

You can ONLY utilize the technique/sure-hit imbued into the barrier. But that's obvious. My last response should've made that clear. In a even domain however, both sure hits are canceled out. Thus he couldn't even use the technique imbued in the barrier in place of his actual technique.

Which wouldn't matter, because again, Gojo spawning his Domain after Sukuna expands his Domain would put his Domain INSIDE of Sukuna's Domain immediately at the beginning of the clash, meaning his Domain only crumbles faster and leaves him with fewer options after his CT burns out.

Because most of his enemies don't call for such a necessity. And using it against Sukuna would be bad. As that would opt him to use Mahoraga to adapt to it. Now that's no longer a concern, and it is one of his ONLY methods to win. It would thus necessitate he uses such a technique.

As I said already, using something that benefits him in a battle a few times, maybe even once, doesn't warrant an instant nullification of the ability via adaptation. Mahoraga adapting to his abilities in the long-run doesn't hinder Gojo's ability to utilize short term options that could potentially even end the fight before Mahoraga could adapt, which mind you, WAS HIS GOAL.

Didn't Gojo purposely only use Blue for a section of the fight because he didn't want Sukuna adapting to Red, and then tried to pull it off when he didn't anticipate it?

Where does he say this was his strat?

EDIT: Ignore this, I found the statement. But literally next chapter he starts consecutively spamming Red, so like, I'm starting to doubt Gojo is a very effective strategist.

Stop assuming I'm saying Mahoraga has instant adaptation that negs Gojo's options instantly.

Okay, but irregardless of whether or not you want that to be your point, it's the only way your argument makes sense.

You: Gojo didn't utilize abilities that would've been beneficial because Mahoraga would adapt to them --> Me: Mahoraga doesn't adapt instantly, so even just using these abilities once or a few times to end the fight quickly so Mahoraga couldn't adapt to anything to begin with (Gojo's goal) wouldn't have been a risky move for Gojo --> You: He would have far more freedom without Mahoraga --> Me: He already had freedom. He neglected to capitalize on it --> You: ?????

Even if you don't WANT to say it, it is what you're saying inadvertently.

he just knew that he could summon Mahoraga at any time and start the clock for adaptation against his technique... he didn't know Sukuna could utilize Mahoraga's adaptation without summoning him at first, true.

Okay but this insinuates Gojo is tactically an idiot, because if he was wary of Mahoraga, his goal would be to defeat Sukuna before he could utilize Mahoraga, a process which would've been accelerated by using his techniques which could very much end the fight more efficiently and quicker?

If anything, he would have wanted to do this even more, because he wanted to not onlt defeat Sukuna but save Megumi. He would not desire a drawn out battle in which Sukuna could summon Mahoraga AT ALL.

Or rather likely have adapted him in secret.

Mahoraga's wheel literally ******* appears over Sukuna's head if he tries to shoulder the effects of adaptation for himself. He can't adapt to shit in secret lmao, if he did that Gojo would be aware.

The very fact he spammed it against 1 Finger Sukuna who couldn't do so makes it quite obvious that he decided to take a different approach because of who the vessel was. The bottom line is that Fushiguro's technique makes the battle more of a headache for Gojo. It's not that complicated.

Dude, teleportation isn't even an ability that EFFECTS MAHORAGA for MAHORAGA to adapt to???? It's an ability that Gojo uses on HIMSELF. Are you trying to say that Mahoraga can adapt to things that don't even interact with him????

was referring to Domain Amplification. As Domain Amplification is like an extension of barrier techniques. The way you had worded your reply made it seem as though he could use chants to strengthen Domain Amplification itself to punch harder.

That's my mistake.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Meguna was able to strengthen his DA. I don't see why Sukuna true form can't.

That didn't seem to be through chants tho. I never said hit output in general can't raise. Just that he's never shown to use chants to increase the output of normal ass punches.

So his true form spammed out of nowhere Gege was lying when he said Sukuna had 4 arms and two face in heian Era?

You misunderstood. Your argument was that original form with his OG body (We'll call it a vessel for simplicity sake) + 20 fingers = his original body in strength...

Which is asinine as his fingers HAD all of his powers in it. It's not like his original body was another dude he just happened to possess. That was jut his body. Thus when actually invading someone elses body, and gaining 20 fingers worth of power, he'd have his original strength + Fushiguro. Even if it's a very small incremental increase, it's still better than if Sukuna only had his strength.

20F carried his CE Output and CE pool of Sukuna. Nowhere stated they also carried his physiques powers. I don't think you get the point where I'm constantly differentiating between CE output & Physical body raw strength.

Having Boundless Cursed Energy ≠ Cursed Energy Output. So even if you add thousands times of additional cursed energy to Anyone it doens't matter if they lacked the output by your logic Yuta should smoke Gojo if we solely go on based on CE. Physiques does matter it's more like how Cursed tool like Playful Cloud is amped with CE to land more damage so obviously your example of Megumi CE pool addition to Sukuna wouldn't matter

Do you believe the Sukuna who fought Kashimo is weaker than the Sukuna of the Heian era? That'll make your position clear to me.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That didn't seem to be through chants tho. I never said hit output in general can't raise. Just that he's never shown to use chants to increase the output of normal ass punches.

DA is more refined version of Simple domain. Gege called simple domain as a CT. So Obviously chants should amp the output.

Not to mention the fact how Domain battle itself would go in Sukuna favour everytime if he used his Heien Era form.

• Gojo and Meguna were equal inside the domain sure hit. Both were trying to Overpower one another
• Gojo in the beginning of the series mentioned how a domain can be Overpowered by Cursed Energy and better refinement
• So Obviously Heina Era Sukuna higher output with second mouth chants would change domain clash from what happened in manga.

You misunderstood. Your argument was that original form with his OG body (We'll call it a vessel for simplicity sake) + 20 fingers = his original body in strength...

Which is asinine as his fingers HAD all of his powers in it. It's not like his original body was another dude he just happened to possess. That was jut his body. Thus when actually invading someone elses body, and gaining 20 fingers worth of power, he'd have his original strength + Fushiguro. Even if it's a very small incremental increase, it's still better than if Sukuna only had his strength.

• Gege 2 times clarified Sukuna was regaining his power + Cursed objects initially has a binding vow and their power will be sealed. When time passes the binding vow will loosen.
• Sukuna fingers getting stronger statement never came from Narrative it came from Gojo who lacks the information on how even this works So Gege statement takes more importance than Gojos hypothesis.
• So all Evidence showcases Current Sukuna is same as Heian Era Sukuna. Only thing currently Sukuna has Ten shadows CT. Nothing stated anything about his Output or physiques getting amped currently. Infact Megumi as a vessel was weaker. Reconstructed vessel is called as PERFECTION and should have more physical raw strength. I don't see a point Gege calling Sukuma true form as an Perfection if it was same as Meguna.
• Not to mention Gojo with six eyes and limitless technique still didn't get any character based or narrative statement for his overall Existence being perfect.
• Also You still don't understand the difference between Cursed Energy Output and Raw strength without CE of an physical body.

Spoiler

Fanbook

Q: Gojo said that "Itadori is also a detector to search for Sukuna's fingers." Was his statement accurate?
A: The only thing he was wrong about was predicting that Sukuna was trying to regain his power by gathering other fingers.

INCARNATED
The state in which a cursed object acquires a physical body by using a human being as a vessel. The conscience of the vessel is lost and the cursed object takes full control.

— Panel caption: The appearance after incarnating changes according to the amount of cursed energy possessed by the cursed object.

CURSED OBJECT (呪物 - jubutsu)
Items with a shady history that should be avoided.

“Items with a shady history” embedded with curses, with the exception of weapons… such items are generally classified as cursed objects. Extant cursed objects are graded in the same way as cursed tools, according to the strength of the curse embedded in each.

— Panel caption: Many of the special grade cursed objects are kept in the Cursed Warehouse at Jujutsu Tech.

SPECIAL GRADE CURSED OBJECTS ARE INDESTRUCTIBLE — Special grade cursed objects can’t be destroyed, and their existence is guaranteed under the binding* that they “cease to live and do no harm to others”. In addition, even the binding of super-powerful cursed objects loosens over time and attracts curses.

Do you believe the Sukuna who fought Kashimo is weaker than the Sukuna of the Heian era? That'll make your position clear to me.

I don't believe. I take Narrative words and consider that as Sukuna who fought Kashimo is same Sukuna in Heien Era.

 

[LaserPrecision]

There's no reason that 10 Shadows would've somehow negated the benefit of literal teleportation, which has such a range that it was implied he could immediately escape the range of Sukuna's Domain (200 meters) if he hadn't burned out his CT when his Domain broke. Not a SINGLE Shikigami that can be summoned by the 10S technique negates this potential benefit, not even Mahoraga, because Mahoraga can't ******* teleport or fly lmao.

Did you forget Mahoraga exists? The dude who can adapt to ANY phenomena period? Just because he never gets the chance to adapt to it doesn't mean he can't. Especially when it's stated he can adapt to any phenomena and adapts to far more complex techniques. For all we know Mahoraga WOULD lean to teleport, or even just modify the space around Gojo so he can't teleport. Who the **** knows. We just know he could.

Against a Sukuna who was jobbing, letting Gojo live because he wanted to adapt to Infinity.

So would you at least agree that Sukuna is to some degree stubborn, if not stupid. You seem to imply that at any point during the first Domain clash, Sukuna could've killed Gojo no-diff. But instead chose the riskier path that could get him killed? I know Eld doesn't agree with that.

That said, Gojo can definitely survive within at least one Domain Expansion and learn to create one that can withstand its affects... although I'm arguing this as though he'd even let himself get caught in one when fighting against an opponent who now can't counter/punish his methods of escape if he relied on it too much.

Which wouldn't matter, because again, Gojo spawning his Domain after Sukuna expands his Domain would put his Domain INSIDE of Sukuna's Domain immediately at the beginning of the clash, meaning his Domain only crumbles faster and leaves him with fewer options after his CT burns out.

If I am not mistaken, didn't Gojo like outright expand his domain to a large size to "catch" Sukuna's inside of it, and then shrink it down from there? Worst case scenario, Gojo literally just bitches Sukuna around with Red or Blue. Domain Amplification is verbatim stated to not completely stop it, and Red was shown to turn his face into literal charcoal even with Domain Amplification and his arms blocking the attack. Malevolent Shrine malfunctions, breaks down. Then Gojo realizes not to stay within range of it anymore since Sukuna has no way to counter it.

As I said already, using something that benefits him in a battle a few times, maybe even once, doesn't warrant an instant nullification of the ability via adaptation. Mahoraga adapting to his abilities in the long-run doesn't hinder Gojo's ability to utilize short term options that could potentially even end the fight before Mahoraga could adapt, which mind you, WAS HIS GOAL.

I never discredited this notion. When did I ever say he can't use his techniques a few times. Stop making this stuff up Azontr. I said Gojo has more freedom/reign over what he can do with his techniques he can use without Mahoraga being a problem anymore. He is now free to spam Blue and Red as much as he wants the entire fight, rather than sprinkling them throughout the run of the fight. You're making assumptions about what I think here. I was never under the impression Gojo couldn't use his techniques at all. I've made it quite verbally clear that I just don't think he could rely on SPAMMING techniques repeatedly over and over and over again like I'm suggesting for this fight in the canon fight. Since spamming techniques repeatedly would accelerate the adaptation process significantly.

Where does he say this was his strat?

Not 100% sure. Will have to look at the manga so this reply will take a will to reach you:

He doesn't want me to adapt, so he isn't using any Cursed Technique other than Lapse.

That means the reason Gojo isn't using Cursed Techniques besides Lapse is...

Now I gotta pile it on!! Then he'll think I'm only gonna use Azure! The timing will stop him from adapting to this!

Seems pretty explicit to me.

Okay, but irregardless of whether or not you want that to be your point, it's the only way your argument makes sense.

You: Gojo didn't utilize abilities that would've been beneficial because Mahoraga would adapt to them --> Me: Mahoraga doesn't adapt instantly, so even just using these abilities once or a few times to end the fight quickly so Mahoraga couldn't adapt to anything to begin with (Gojo's goal) wouldn't have been a risky move for Gojo --> You: He would have far more freedom without Mahoraga --> Me: He already had freedom. He neglected to capitalize on it --> You: ?????

Even if you don't WANT to say it, it is what you're saying inadvertently.

Or you're just completely misunderstanding my point. Gojo is aware that if he can't take care of Mahoraga quickly, one of his techniques will become ineffective. He understands he can use a few techniques before the adaptation is complete, but would need to fight conservatively to avoid MAKING the process almost instantaneous.

Your argument doesn't at all address that he would have far more freedom to use his techniques in a match-up where he doesn't need to worry about his Techniques becoming ineffective after some uses.

The two theories regarding his adaptation was between experiencing it, and then a time limit before it adapts, or exposure to the technique multiple times. If it was the later, Gojo would be ****** if he opted to spam. Because again, he would've adapted QUICKLY to it and removed the technique as an option altogether. I don't understand why it is so difficult to comprehend the notion that fighting against a dude who can make your moves completely useless if you use them recklessly/repeatedly would make you fight more conservatively as to not have your techniques become moot.

Your only counter to this has only been "Nuh uh, Gojo still used his techniques! He had the chance to finish him off and failed too!"

Because he was CAUTIOUS of his techniques being removed. Any mistakes would cost him, and he would have to be actively weary of this. That is no longer a problem in this fight, and he can use his techniques as recklessly as he wants without having to worry about them getting nulled.

Okay but this insinuates Gojo is tactically an idiot, because if he was wary of Mahoraga, his goal would be to defeat Sukuna before he could utilize Mahoraga, a process which would've been accelerated by using his techniques which could very much end the fight more efficiently and quicker?

If anything, he would have wanted to do this even more, because he wanted to not onlt defeat Sukuna but save Megumi. He would not desire a drawn out battle in which Sukuna could summon Mahoraga AT ALL.

There is no way in any universe where Gojo could've finished Sukuna off before he could summon Mahoraga. It's not some super lengthy process that takes ages. If Gojo fought more conservatively, Sukuna would have no reason to deploy Mahoraga, thus there'd be less risk of his technique becoming useless against Mahoraga and then becoming a uphill battle against a totally immune Mahoraga + Sukuna.

Mahoraga's wheel literally ******* appears over Sukuna's head if he tries to shoulder the effects of adaptation for himself. He can't adapt to shit in secret lmao, if he did that Gojo would be aware.

I was saying he would either summon Mahoraga, or secretly have Mahoraga adapt to it as he did the Domains. I wasn't saying adapt to it himself. I take the blame for this mistake though. I def could've worded that better.

Dude, teleportation isn't even an ability that EFFECTS MAHORAGA for MAHORAGA to adapt to???? It's an ability that Gojo uses on HIMSELF. Are you trying to say that Mahoraga can adapt to things that don't even interact with him????

Infinity is an ability he also uses on himself, and yet Mahoraga could adapt to that. I don't see why this is a concept hard to grasp when it's stated he could adapt to any phenomena. Not just some phenomena.

Yes, if Gojo spammed Teleportation, and thus impeded Mahoraga's ability to land a hit on him, he would develop a method to thereby nullify that advantage. I'm not caught up with the manga, but as far as I'm aware, it's never stated Mahoraga can't adapt to techniques that are used on oneself as opposed to him. Worst case scenario, Mahoraga can't, but adapts to his other techniques and then Gojo has no choice but to get in close to fight a Mahoraga who'd be immune to all of his techniques.

****, I'm getting gang banged rn

DA is more.refined version of Simple domain. Gege called simple domain as a CT. So Obviously chants should amp the output.

Not to mention the fact how Domain battle itself would go in Sukuna favour everytime if he used his Heien Era form.

• Gojo and Meguna were equal inside the domain sure hit. Both were trying to Overpower one another
• Gojo in the beginning of the series mentioned how a domain can be Overpowered by Cursed Energy and better refinement
• So Obviously Heina Era Sukuna higher output with second mouth chants would change domain clash from what happened in manga.

Would you mind giving me a statement of DA being a refined version of Simple Domain? I believe you, but I would like the scan for future reference. Same for Simple Domain being referred to as a CT.

Except they weren't even inside the domain. Already elaborated on that several times. Being able to block a punch from someone slightly stronger than you isn't proof of equality. Especially when it's noted Gojo > Sukuna inside of a Domain when it just came to regular brawling + Gojo restraining Sukuna several times throughout the duration of the fight.

The way Cursed Energy plays a role isn't clarified though. I assume by refinement you mean polished. In that regard, both were equal. Then there was the third factor, but I don't think that was ever extrapolated...

Quit assuming Sukuna has the ability to chant to make his Domain win a clash. I don't think that's shown to be the case ANYWHERE in the series ever, and was brought up by me and another user. And yet no one has provided evidence for chants helping someone win a Domain clash. Like if that is the case, PLEASE gimmie a scan. Because that's a really important factor.

• Gege 2 times clarified Sukuna was regaining his power + Cursed objects initially has a binding vow and their power will be sealed. When time passes the binding vow will loosen.
• Sukuna fingers getting stronger statement never came from Narrative it came from Gojo who lacks the information on how even this works So Gege statement takes more importance than Gojos hypothesis.
• So all Evidence showcases Current Sukuna is same as Heian Era Sukuna. Only thing currently Sukuna has Ten shadows CT. Nothing stated anything about his Output or physiques getting amped currently. Infact Megumi as a vessel was weaker. Reconstructed vessel is called as PERFECTION and should have more physical raw strength. I don't see a point Gege calling Sukuma true form as an Perfection if it was same as Meguna.
• Not to mention Gojo with six eyes and limitless technique still didn't get any character based or narrative statement for his overall Existence being perfect.
• Also You still don't understand the difference between Cursed Energy Output and Raw strength without CE of an physical body.

A lot of this is just a repeat of what we've already argued ad nauseum. I will just summarize this.

Sukuna as we see him in the fight with Kashimo has the physique and raw strength of his original form... because it's original form. The only difference is he now has MORE cursed energy since he also has Fushiguro's cursed energy in addition to his own.

If you can't comprehend what I'm saying, don't play it off as me not knowing the difference between raw strength and cursed energy output. The difference is made painfully clearly as early on as the first fight in the series, and elaborated by Nanami early on as well. I know the difference, mate. And I never contested you on that.

I hope this was concise enough for me to convey what I mean this time around.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Would you mind giving me a statement of DA being a refined version of Simple Domain?

Funny enough I was sending the scans you just asked

I believe you, but I would like the scan for future reference. Same for Simple Domain being referred to as a CT.

Except they weren't even inside the domain. Already elaborated on that several times. Being able to block a punch from someone slightly stronger than you isn't proof of equality. Especially when it's noted Gojo > Sukuna inside of a Domain when it just came to regular brawling + Gojo restraining Sukuna several times throughout the duration of the fight.

The way Cursed Energy plays a role isn't clarified though. I assume by refinement you mean polished. In that regard, both were equal. Then there was the third factor, but I don't think that was ever extrapolated...

Quit assuming Sukuna has the ability to chant to make his Domain win a clash. I don't think that's shown to be the case ANYWHERE in the series ever, and was brought up by me and another user. And yet no one has provided evidence for chants helping someone win a Domain clash. Like if that is the case, PLEASE gimmie a scan. Because that's a really important factor.

I will leave it up to you

• Gege included Simple domain as an sub abilities of CT.
• Kusakabe who is master in Simple domain admits DA is just more refined technique.
• Chants are not just used for innate technique. Gojo used Chants to recover his output.
• This is further based Backed up later that domain Expansion or Sure hit also should be activated by chants or hand signs.
• Sukuna uses chants against Kashimo. Which makes me wonder if Gojo was fodder enough Sukuna didn't needed a single chant.

A lot of this is just a repeat of what we've already argued ad nauseum. I will just summarize this.

Sukuna as we see him in the fight with Kashimo has the physique and raw strength of his original form... because it's original form. The only difference is he now has MORE cursed energy since he also has Fushiguro's cursed energy in addition to his own.

If you can't comprehend what I'm saying, don't play it off as me not knowing the difference between raw strength and cursed energy output. The difference is made painfully clearly as early on as the first fight in the series, and elaborated by Nanami early on as well. I know the difference, mate. And I never contested you on that.

I hope this was concise enough for me to convey what I mean this time around.

Author or Kashimo nowhere stated anything about having Sukuna more Cursed Energy as a fact for perfection this is clearly wrong interpretation of yours. Gege called the Physique of Sukuna as a perfection.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Funny enough I was sending the scans you just asked

Convenient timing.

I will leave it up to you

• Gege included Simple domain as an sub abilities of CT.
• Kusakabe who is master in Simple domain admits DA is just more refined technique.
• Chants are not just used for innate technique. Gojo used Chants to recover his output.
• This is further based Backed up later that domain Expansion or Sure hit.
• Sukuna uses chants against Kashimo. Which makes me wonder if Gojo was fodder enough Sukuna didn't needed a single chant.

Mmm... I'll be more lenient about it I suppose. But I'm still not thoroughly convinced. I think barrier techniques are referred to as Cursed Techniques for simplicity sake. Especially since it's verbatim stated that Domain Amplifications are barriers with NO technique imbued within them, and even force you to not use any Cursed Techniques at all. Aside from a Domain Expansion which can co-exist (Which imo, shows that at most, he could strengthen the sure-hit attack of the domain, but not the domains quality itself).

Author or Kashimo nowhere stated anything about having Sukuna more Cursed Energy as a fact for perfection this is clearly headcanon. Gege called the Physique of Sukuna as a perfection.

It's something that's self-evident, nor did I say his body is perfect because of it. We already know that eating Sukuna's finger adds to the hosts cursed energy. So it's the culmination of both their cursed energy when Sukuna takes over. I don't care if you wanna say it added close to no power to Sukuna, it still provided SOME cursed energy. And would thus have more than his past self. Even if by a miniscule amount.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Convenient timing.

Yeah. I almost finished typed you just asked thats one hell of an coincidence.

Mmm... I'll be more lenient about it I suppose. But I'm still not thoroughly convinced. I think barrier techniques are referred to as Cursed Techniques for simplicity sake. Especially since it's verbatim stated that Domain Amplifications are barriers with NO technique imbued within them, and even force you to not use any Cursed Techniques at all. Aside from a Domain Expansion which can co-exist (Which imo, shows that at most, he could strengthen the sure-hit attack of the domain, but not the domains quality itself).

• Gege included Simple domain as an sub abilities of CT.

You can see in the scan even barrier techniques needs hand sign and words/chants.
Also you can see Gojo and Sukuna desparately trying to Overpower each other's Inside conditions in first domain clash with their hand sign kept intact. So obviously Chants and hand signs should give advantage in domain output.

It's something that's self-evident, nor did I say his body is perfect because of it. We already know that eating Sukuna's finger adds to the hosts cursed energy. So it's the culmination of both their cursed energy when Sukuna takes over. I don't care if you wanna say it added close to no power to Sukuna, it still provided SOME cursed energy. And would thus have more than his past self. Even if by a miniscule amount.

Bruh the main point is let's say
(Yuta + cursed energy output ) physical output= Yujis Physiques powers
Maki/Toji Physiques = Yuji physiques powers
Just giving an example don't take it as literal.

Here yuta physique gives 0.2 percentage of power while his CE Output gives 99.8 % of power as compensation
Where Maki/Toji case is they doesn't have CE so their natural physique gives 100% which is equal to Yuji

Now replace Yuta with Maki Physiques (100%) + Yutas CE output(99.8%). How much power now Maki/ Toji Body can produce? Are you gonna say it's still equal to Yuji physiques if they can use Yutas Cursed Energy output to reinforce their body than what they can previously?
Are you gonna say Yutas normal Physique compensated most part here?

 

[azontr]

Did you forget Mahoraga exists? The dude who can adapt to ANY phenomena period? Just because he never gets the chance to adapt to it doesn't mean he can't. Especially when it's stated he can adapt to any phenomena and adapts to far more complex techniques. For all we know Mahoraga WOULD lean to teleport, or even just modify the space around Gojo so he can't teleport. Who the **** knows. We just know he could.

No. Just, no. Mahoraga's adaptation begins after he is attacked. He cannot adapt to something that does not interact with him whatsoever. That's just not how his adaptation functions.

So would you at least agree that Sukuna is to some degree stubborn, if not stupid. You seem to imply that at any point during the first Domain clash, Sukuna could've killed Gojo no-diff. But instead chose the riskier path that could get him killed

I would call it him being overly cautious, if anything. He didn't need to do it, yes, but he clearly wanted to either out of some kind of arrogance, or likely because he wanted to make sure that Gojo had little chance of victory.

Call it stubbornness, arrogance, cautiousness, stupidity, whatever you want. I can agree that it wasn't the best move in Sukuna's favor, though, given his options. But given this Sukuna isn't in a mindset where he wants to drag the fight out, I don't believe Gojo survives the first Domain clash.

If I am not mistaken, didn't Gojo like outright expand his domain to a large size to "catch" Sukuna's inside of it, and then shrink it down from there

Yeah, on their third Domain clash. After his had been shattered twice, hence he wouldn't start trying to forcefully alter the conditions of the barrier like that.

Seems pretty explicit to me.

You probably didn't see my edit where I said I'd found the statement myself, but irregardless that's fair enough I suppose. It doesn't really change the bulk of my argument.

Or you're just completely misunderstanding my point. Gojo is aware that if he can't take care of Mahoraga quickly, one of his techniques will become ineffective. He understands he can use a few techniques before the adaptation is complete, but would need to fight conservatively to avoid MAKING the process almost instantaneous.

Your argument doesn't at all address that he would have far more freedom to use his techniques in a match-up where he doesn't need to worry about his Techniques becoming ineffective after some uses.

There is no way in any universe where Gojo could've finished Sukuna off before he could summon Mahoraga. It's not some super lengthy process that takes ages. If Gojo fought more conservatively, Sukuna would have no reason to deploy Mahoraga, thus there'd be less risk of his technique becoming useless against Mahoraga and then becoming a uphill battle against a totally immune Mahoraga + Sukuna.

(Quoting two posts because both of them play into my argument. Feel free to ignore this and read below. Scroll down for a TLDR if you don't feel like reading all this.)

I am aware of the concept of conservative fighting, so first of all, it's not a concept I'm having a difficult time grasping. Second of all, it doesn't matter because while Gojo's freedom was LIMITED, it was not TAKEN AWAY from him.

You yourself acknowledge this:

He understands he can use a few techniques before the adaptation is complete, but would need to fight conservatively to avoid MAKING the process almost instantaneous.

My point isn't that Gojo doesn't fight conservatively in his battle against Sukuna. My point is that WITH the limited freedom he had, he didn't choose the options that would give him the best results, such as ranged spamming or teleportation. If you actually go back and READ my argument (slowly), you could comprehend this quite easily:

Mahoraga doesn't adapt instantly, so even just using these abilities once or a few times to end the fight quickly so Mahoraga couldn't adapt to anything to begin with (Gojo's goal) wouldn't have been a risky move for Gojo

Read the bold as slowly as you possibly can to comprehend it. Gojo knows he can pull off a few techniques before Mahoraga adapts, you acknowledge this, I acknowledge this. With his limited freedom and limited time, Gojo still did not utilize the options that would be best for ending the fight before Mahoraga could adapt.

Fighting conservatively, and fighting to WIN, are not exclusive. I can utilize few of my abilities to circumvent a constantly adapting opponent, but if those abilities aren't ones that will let me WIN before the opponent can adapt to begin with (Gojo's goal, a-*******-gain) then I wouldn't have used them anyways.

You can say that Gojo couldn't have possibly finished Sukuna before Mahoraga was summoned, but Gojo does not KNOW this himself. WE know this because we are aware of the scaling, but just because Gojo CANNOT do something doesn't mean he would not ATTEMPT to do it. Whether or not he fails is the information that we have access to, things we can deduce based on established evidence and scaling, but Gojo cannot know this.

You can say that he has MORE freedom to act since Sukuna no longer has access to Mahoraga, but that is irrelevant. Because if Gojo didn't opt for these strategies in a situation where they would have been most beneficial in ending a fight as quickly as possible, his goal, again, then in a fight where he does NOT need to end it as quickly as possible, he would not opt for these strategies.

If I have an opponent who I know can adapt to my every move given time, and I have an option to potentially get rid of that opponent as quickly as possible... say, for the sake of pure hypothetical, a rocket launcher or some shit. I wanna get rid of this thing as quickly as possible before it adapts, right? And I know it doesn't adapt instantly, so I can afford to let out a few of my rockets. So I hit it with some rockets- Does pretty well! Man, I should've used these rockets before!

But in another fight- This opponent loses its adaptation. I don't have to worry about a time limit or all my abilities becoming ineffective. So why would I even use my rocket launcher? I don't need to use it and get rid of this thing, because even if I do, it's not gonna adapt, and even if I use it later it'll still have the same effectiveness as if I used it immediately.

And let's say, in a third scenario, I never opted to use my rocket launcher at all for the adapting opponent. Even knowing I'm on a time limit and need to end the fight quickly, I do not use what is potentially the best way to achieve this, not even a few times. So, in the second scenario, where I didn't have to fight an adapting opponent, and I'm not NEARLY as pressed to end the fight quickly... why would I utilize strategies that I never used in an infinitely (get it?) more desire scenario? I shouldn't have to explain this.

Spoiler: TLDR

If you don't use your best options in a situation where you know you need to end a fight quickly and avoid wasting time, you wouldn't use them in any other situation to begin with. If I'm being chased by a mass murderer but have a gun that I could easily used to kill them, but don't, I wouldn't use it to kill someone who threatens my life much less. Gojo didn't utilize the tactics you say he did when he needed to. He won't use them just because he can now.

I was saying he would either summon Mahoraga, or secretly have Mahoraga adapt to it as he did the Domains. I wasn't saying adapt to it himself. I take the blame for this mistake though. I def could've worded that better.

We all make mistakes, but irregardless of just summoning Mahoraga (which would not be a secret, nor would it allow adaptation quick enough to adapt to Gojo's Limitless in 0.01 seconds), Gojo didn't even know Sukuna could utilize Megumi's soul to take on the process of adaptation until it happened. He wouldn't have taken this possibility into account

Infinity is an ability he also uses on himself, and yet Mahoraga could adapt to that. I don't see why this is a concept hard to grasp when it's stated he could adapt to any phenomena. Not just some phenomena.

Mahoraga was adapting to Infinity because Infinity can still be interacted with. What you touch when you try to hit Gojo, is the Infinity that stands between you and him. Mahoraga can adapt to things that he can interact with, he cannot adapt to something that he doesn't touch at all. This is further supported when it's blatantly said Mahoraga's adaptation only begins after he is attacked, though in this case it's not an attack that is the criteria, but physical interaction.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yeah. I almost finished typed you just asked thats one hell of an coincidence.

Must be the power of Black Flash. Let's see if you can pull it off again.

You can see in the scan even barrier techniques needs hand sign and words/chants.
Also you can see Gojo and Sukuna desparately trying to Overpower each other's Inside conditions in first domain clash with their hand sign kept intact. So obviously Chants and hand signs should give advantage in domain output.

I forget what you're referring to. From what I recall, it was whoever took substantial damage first had their domain get the boot.

Bruh the main point is let's say
(Yuta + cursed energy output ) physical output= Yujis Physiques powers
Maki/Toji Physiques = Yuji physiques powers
Just giving an example don't take it as literal.

Here yuta physique gives 0.2 percentage of power while his CE Output gives 99.8 % of power as compensation
Where Maki/Toji case is they doesn't have CE so their natural physique gives 100% which is equal to Yuji

Now replace Yuta with Maki Physiques (100%) + Yutas CE output(99.8%). How much power now Maki/ Toji Body can produce? Are you gonna say it's still equal to Yuji physiques if they can use Yutas Cursed Energy output to reinforce their body than what they can previously?
Are you gonna say Yutas normal Physique compensated most part here?

I'm confused, is the analogy if Yuta and Maki were to "fuse" akin to what Sukuna does with his hosts? Need to understand to give an appropriate response.

No. Just, no. Mahoraga's adaptation begins after he is attacked. He cannot adapt to something that does not interact with him whatsoever. That's just not how his adaptation functions.

...He adapted to Infinity. A technique Gojo uses on himself and doesn't attack with... According to you, Mahoraga never should've adapted two methods to bypass Infinity.

I would call it him being overly cautious, if anything. He didn't need to do it, yes, but he clearly wanted to either out of some kind of arrogance, or likely because he wanted to make sure that Gojo had little chance of victory.

Call it stubbornness, arrogance, cautiousness, stupidity, whatever you want. I can agree that it wasn't the best move in Sukuna's favor, though, given his options. But given this Sukuna isn't in a mindset where he wants to drag the fight out, I don't believe Gojo survives the first Domain clash.

That's fair enough.

Yeah, on their third Domain clash. After his had been shattered twice, hence he wouldn't start trying to forcefully alter the conditions of the barrier like that.

I forget this is Gojo right after being released from the Seal. So yeah, he wouldn't know about that.

You probably didn't see my edit where I said I'd found the statement myself, but irregardless that's fair enough I suppose. It doesn't really change the bulk of my argument.

Ah, no, I didn't see that. Apologies. I had to get the response out quick given right now it's 2 on 1 and what not.

(Quoting two posts because both of them play into my argument. Feel free to ignore this and read below. Scroll down for a TLDR if you don't feel like reading all this.)

I am aware of the concept of conservative fighting, so first of all, it's not a concept I'm having a difficult time grasping. Second of all, it doesn't matter because while Gojo's freedom was LIMITED, it was not TAKEN AWAY from him.

This feels like semantics. Restricted, Taken away, Limited, etc. I felt the message I was trying to convey was still quite clear. He has far more freedom to use his techniques against Sukuna than he did in the actual fight. It's why I explicitly made note of the fact Gojo could still use his attacks and noted a conservative fighting approach instead of saying he never used his techniques. It was exaggeration to use "taken away". But I figured that was obvious. Apologies if it wasn't,

My point isn't that Gojo doesn't fight conservatively in his battle against Sukuna. My point is that WITH the limited freedom he had, he didn't choose the options that would give him the best results, such as ranged spamming or teleportation. If you actually go back and READ my argument (slowly), you could comprehend this quite easily:

He couldn't just spam attacks like I was suggesting though. I already noted that in my last comment. That would drastically speed up the adaptation process.

Read the bold as slowly as you possibly can to comprehend it. Gojo knows he can pull off a few techniques before Mahoraga adapts, you acknowledge this, I acknowledge this. With his limited freedom and limited time, Gojo still did not utilize the options that would be best for ending the fight before Mahoraga could adapt.

Fighting conservatively, and fighting to WIN, are not exclusive. I can utilize few of my abilities to circumvent a constantly adapting opponent, but if those abilities aren't ones that will let me WIN before the opponent can adapt to begin with (Gojo's goal, a-*******-gain) then I wouldn't have used them anyways.

You can say that Gojo couldn't have possibly finished Sukuna before Mahoraga was summoned, but Gojo does not KNOW this himself. WE know this because we are aware of the scaling, but just because Gojo CANNOT do something doesn't mean he would not ATTEMPT to do it. Whether or not he fails is the information that we have access to, things we can deduce based on established evidence and scaling, but Gojo cannot know this.

This all only makes sense if Gojo thinks Sukuna would be summoning someone significantly weaker than himself, despite he himself stating that with Mahoraga, he had the potential to beat himself. It should be quite simple to deduce that Mahoraga is not some jobber he can erase with a simple punch.

You can say that he has MORE freedom to act since Sukuna no longer has access to Mahoraga, but that is irrelevant. Because if Gojo didn't opt for these strategies in a situation where they would have been most beneficial in ending a fight as quickly as possible, his goal, again, then in a fight where he does NOT need to end it as quickly as possible, he would not opt for these strategies.

Spamming wouldn't be more beneficial, nor really ANY of the suggestions you offered. Spam attacks? Cool, just accelerates Mahoraga's adaptation. Would say the same for teleportation, but you seem to disagree with that. So unless you wanna vc on discord or smth, I don't really wanna continue on that tangent. Gojo as we heard according to his own thoughts took the OPPOSITE strategy, because he believed that was the safer approach. And instead tried to used fewer of his techniques and catch them off guard with another one. And that's explicitly because of Mahoraga's adaptation. So this isn't in any way indicative of the way he fights when he can use his technique without consequences. We have other instances that can be used throughout the series that would serve as a better example of what he would do. First fight with Sukuna? Teleportation spam. Jogo? Red, Domain Expansion. Toji? Blue numerous times, Red, and then Purple. Used Blue to clear up fodder clones. Against the Disaster Curses he did have to use H2H due to there being several + domain amplification + innocents all around that could be killed, and even then he tried his best to find the oppurtunity to use his Techniques, such as Domain Expansion.

He very clearly favors abusing his techniques when he thinks he can without consequence. Stop using the one instance where he feels he should use them more sparingly to dictate how he'd fight without the need to worry about risks.

If I have an opponent who I know can adapt to my every move given time, and I have an option to potentially get rid of that opponent as quickly as possible... say, for the sake of pure hypothetical, a rocket launcher or some shit. I wanna get rid of this thing as quickly as possible before it adapts, right? And I know it doesn't adapt instantly, so I can afford to let out a few of my rockets. So I hit it with some rockets- Does pretty well! Man, I should've used these rockets before!

You'll look pretty goofy when the dude survives the rockets and fires back at you because you neglected to consider the fact they can survive that. Could've easily been avoided, but alas.

But in another fight- This opponent loses its adaptation. I don't have to worry about a time limit or all my abilities becoming ineffective. So why would I even use my rocket launcher? I don't need to use it and get rid of this thing, because even if I do, it's not gonna adapt, and even if I use it later it'll still have the same effectiveness as if I used it immediately.

Because why would you want to draw out a fight in a life or death fight against a dude you know has the capacity to easily murder you? I know some peeps like to fight with honor even with such risks on the line, but I didn't take you for the type. Me personally, I'm taking care of them asap with my rocket launcher. You can draw it out and maybe live to regret it.

And let's say, in a third scenario, I never opted to use my rocket launcher at all for the adapting opponent. Even knowing I'm on a time limit and need to end the fight quickly, I do not use what is potentially the best way to achieve this, not even a few times. So, in the second scenario, where I didn't have to fight an adapting opponent, and I'm not NEARLY as pressed to end the fight quickly... why would I utilize strategies that I never used in an infinitely (get it?) more desire scenario? I shouldn't have to explain this.

You forgot to mention that they can't adapt to your techniques if you don't use them. So it's justifiable for you to think using close quarters combat would be a feasible method to beat them. Since there's nothing to adapt to. Your life is still at risk of course, but thinking you shouldn't use the thing that your opponent can adapt to (Granted they can survive it, which you aren't aware of, so you're taking a huge risk if you try to finish them off with it asap) asap and as often as possible is entirely justified.

I'm also going to assume you meant dire as opposed to desire. Anyways, I would unironically argue with you on the latter scenario being more dire. The more dire scenario is whatever one you choose to play more stupidly. Fighting an opponent who can't adapt to your abilities? Finish them off asap and don't five them the opportunity to harm or kill you (I assume you don't want to be harmed. Unless you're into that, then no judgement from me). Fighting an opponent who can gradually adapt to your moves? Avoid using moves in question and instead just opt for close quarters. That's your best bet. Especially if you aren't fully aware of your opponents strength/durability, as that would very easily result in fatal outcome.

We all make mistakes, but irregardless of just summoning Mahoraga (which would not be a secret, nor would it allow adaptation quick enough to adapt to Gojo's Limitless in 0.01 seconds), Gojo didn't even know Sukuna could utilize Megumi's soul to take on the process of adaptation until it happened. He wouldn't have taken this possibility into account

Of course, that's why I crossed it out when I listed it as a possibility. Since it's something Gojo wouldn't be aware of (Until after it has happened and his move has no effect ofc).

It feels at this rate, we'll continue ad nauseum, so I'd be fine with just agreeing to disagree. At least on here, because debating on Vs Wiki quickly becomes cancerous. And I think we can both agree on that.

 

[Zabazab]

How on earth is this still a debate? Gojo lost to a weakened & sandbagging Sukuna, and then stated that he'd lose even without 10 Shadows. It is literally canon that Heian Sukuna wins this fight low-mid diff

Sukuna would win the first Domain Clash, and either kill Gojo immediately since he won't be holding back to let him live, or will go onto the second Domain Clash which he'd ALSO win since he'd attack the weaker inside of the barrier rather than the riskier outside.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I forget what you're referring to. From what I recall, it was whoever took substantial damage first had their domain get the boot.

Look at the pic both has their hand sign intact and trying to Overpower one another you can clearly see the face where both looks like trying to push each other's sure hit to overpower one another.

I'm confused, is the analogy if Yuta and Maki were to "fuse" akin to what Sukuna does with his hosts? Need to understand to give an appropriate response.

What I'm saying is If we go by your logic of Megumi body should give 1F level of power which is objectively wrong by feats showcased in the series. Even still if we go with that the Sukuna who was alive in Heian Era should have more raw powers than Megumi. Objectively taking the Perfection statement from Narrative I would consider Sukuna raw power Without CE above any MF in the verse as a perfect being. So his Heian Era body should compensate more than what Megumi body ever did.

Again I repeat the part Megumi body gives 1F strength or not it shouldn't matter if Sukuna physicals gives more strength than what Megumi body raw powers gives. So Heien Era form should yield more raw powers than whatever Meguna was using against Gojo. Saying Meguna > Hein Era Sukuna is Objectively wrong without any scans to back it up. Only thing Meguna has is More CTs.
Reconstructed Body of True form of Sukuna from recent chapter may be stronger than Heian Era counterpart or not. I don't care & it shouldn't matter.

But Meguna who fought Gojo. I'm talking about that version. Megumi body shouldn't be able to compensate the raw power which natural body of Sukuna gives.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Because if they voted incon the match wouldn't go into incon

Yeah, thats not my problem

You’re definitely manipulating votes.

Definitely, no

Gonna update the vote count later on

 

[Arnoldstone18]

then stated that he'd lose even without 10 Shadows.

Nope. Not true. He just said he wasn’t sure.

 

[Zabazab]

Nope. Not true. He just said he wasn’t sure.

Here's the scans I guess.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

…

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Nope. Not true. He just said he wasn’t sure.

Isn't both has same meaning but different words?