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Busoshoku Haki Huge Addition

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KingTempest said:
Luffy in Chapter 1.
Buggy in Chapter 19.
Luffy in Chapter 66.
Luffy in Chapter 83.
Foxy in Chapter 318.
Vander in Chapter 640.
Brook and Momonosuke in Chapter 795.

You can not convince me that this is an inconsistency.

Luffy was in Gear Third with Buso: Koka around his body, left his arm out for an extended amount of time, then screamed while launching an attack with people noting his force.
Gear Third raises the surface area of his fist as well. He should've been even super affected.

Luffy was in Gear Second with Buso: Koka with his arm stretched out to an unknown amount and was able to move fast enough for his arm catch on fire while underwater.

Luffy was in Base with no Buso was trying to grab someone on 2 occasions and almost gave up on contact because of how weak the water made him.

The point is not that he wasn't affected, he clearly was, it's that he was affected to a lesser extent.
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I agree with tempest. Damage's counters haven't been so impressive atm, and Tempest has a really good argument about this.
 
My only issue on the Hardening countering the Water's Power null is from the SBS:

D: Odacchi! Here's a question for you! Crocodile can't fight water because he's "sand," right? Then how does he bathe?! Does he at all?! That's filthy!! Do you bathe, Odacchi? by Crocodile's Mother

O: First of all, let's discuss the problem of Devil Fruit users bathing themselves. People who have eaten a Devil Fruit are "hated" by the sea, and cannot swim. The "sea" here can refer to anything from rivers, pools and baths to any kind of standing water. On a worldwide level, they are all the "sea." When these people enter the water, not only can they not use their powers, they have trouble moving their bodies at all. They might be able to struggle a bit, but it wouldn't do much good. That's if their entire bodies are submerged in the "sea." With less than half the body or just the limbs, it gets easier. Also, rain and dripping water have no effect at all. Therefore, hip baths or showers are the most common choice. Now, in Crocodile's case, "water" is the weakness of his very powers, so his abilities are robbed even in the shower. But it's not like there are enemies around when you take a shower, so I'd bet he would take them even with his powers being blocked. Don't you think? ---And to answer your final question, about myself bathing. As it happens, I do bathe. Twice! In a year!
 
Eminiteable said:
When these people enter the water, not only can they not use their powers, they have trouble moving their bodies at all. They might be able to struggle a bit, but it wouldn't do much good. That's if their entire bodies are submerged in the "sea." With less than half the body or just the limbs, it gets easier.
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Here's the thing.

Luffy has shown to get weaker to a much higher extent without haki than with haki. Luffy put an arm out to grab people and it

I understand the SBS quote, but when we see that much more of Luffy's skin is exposed, even the Red Hawk portion, and the draining effect is weaker with Haki than without, then it's blatant proof that haki blocks out the effects.
 
You know what?
Screw everything else.

We can switch NPI with elemental intangibility neg, add the resistance to spacial manipulation, and the regeneration negation - mid, then we can close the thread. We haven't had anything accepted except the compromises that Damage agreed with, half the thread disagreed with power null and agreed with resistances, we can tackle this later.

There are a lot more threads I want to get done with this verse and this one thread is holding it up since we've been arguing back and forth about nothing for 4 days.
 
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KingTempest said:
You know what?
Screw everything else.

We can switch NPI with elemental intangibility neg, add the resistance to spacial manipulation, and the regeneration negation - mid, then we can close the thread. We haven't had anything accepted except the compromises that Damage agreed with, half the thread disagreed with power null and agreed with resistances, we can tackle this later.

There are a lot more threads I want to get done with this verse and this one thread is holding it up since we've been arguing back and forth about nothing for 4 days.
Click to expand...
Sounds fine to me.
 
KingTempest said:
You know what?
Screw everything else.

We can switch NPI with elemental intangibility neg, add the resistance to spacial manipulation, and the regeneration negation - mid, then we can close the thread. We haven't had anything accepted except the compromises that Damage agreed with, half the thread disagreed with power null and agreed with resistances, we can tackle this later.

There are a lot more threads I want to get done with this verse and this one thread is holding it up since we've been arguing back and forth about nothing for 4 days.
Click to expand...

It’s a shame, the resistance to elements made total sense to me. Especially now that spacial manipulation, which i feel was the hardest between the two to prove, was accepted.
 
We're keeping it.

Let's wait for staff (Damage, Mitch, Elizhaa, or anyone else) to verify the proposed changes and unlock the page so we can move on.
 
I'm not even gonna argue against this one.

What's the issues with resistance negation resistance?
The intan one will be "your explanation makes sense, but it looks like Kata's thing to me, and even though I have no proof, it looks like it, so yeah".

Let's sum up the resistance negation resistance and that's the last one.
 
KingTempest said:
You know what?
Screw everything else.

We can switch NPI with elemental intangibility neg, add the resistance to spacial manipulation, and the regeneration negation - mid, then we can close the thread. We haven't had anything accepted except the compromises that Damage agreed with, half the thread disagreed with power null and agreed with resistances, we can tackle this later.

There are a lot more threads I want to get done with this verse and this one thread is holding it up since we've been arguing back and forth about nothing for 4 days.
Click to expand...
Okay, sounds fine to me.
 
I think i found evidence of armament Haki not being a forcefield, and actually just hardening of the skin. Will be posting it soon
 
Also, i think i didn't explain why i disagreed with resistance to all elements created by DFs, but i think i got an analogy that can help understand my opinion about it (imo armament is a force field, so read thinking the same):

In Pokémon, we don't give resistances to all elements to pokémons that can rise their def or special def via moves because they aren't resisting it, they are raising their durability and thus taking less, but we do give resistance based in type modifiers because they will take less damage from it even if the attack surpass their def by a high amount.

I don't see haki fitting the second as much as i see it fitting the first.
 
Donquixote_DeadPanky said:
Luffy clearly uses Busoshoku Koka on his forehead and headbutts the shell, as you can see. The bruise on Luffy's forehead is clearly noticeable on the next page.

It even contains his face impressions on the shield, which again is evidence enough that he touched it with his actual skin.
Click to expand...
That's a good find but I don't think it conclusively proves anything.

To go back to the "invisible armor" analogy, if you are wearing armor and you get hit hard enough, your body underneath the armor is still going to have damage / bruises. Haki doesn't make you invulnerable.

And the black coating level of Armament Haki there, I'm not proposing that's a type of forcefield that extends far above the skin. It being on the skin itself (and therefore able to leave an impression of Luffy's face on the shield) is more along the lines of what I'm thinking.
 
KingTempest said:
This regular haki is not a forcefield, that should have never been applied. Haki is armor, yes, but saying it's a forcefield is just completely blocking how it works. It's an enhancer. When people make black blades, are they putting permanent forcefields around weapons? Did Vergo hit Smoker and Law with a forcefield around his Bamboo stick? No.

Rayleigh did not say "it is an invisible suit of armor", he said 'it is like an invisible suit of armor", which is a simile, which is figurative speech, which is not taken to be literal. It's stated to be that because it enhances dura and AP, it does not put a barrier around it unless it's advanced.
When they push Haki into people's bodies are they pushing a forcefield through their body? Are they putting forcefields through the metal collars? No.

Haki is everything but a force field, and with that, Haki resists certain things. Haki should not get power null because that's not how it works, it shouldn't getting forcefield creation in any state outside of it's advanced form.

These are my views on the "invisible armor". It's for the advanced.
Click to expand...
 
What even is regular haki? Haki is someone's will/ambition, no one said all forms of haki are a force field, future sight is as much haki as internal damage is haki even tho neither are force fields, i am pretty sure every single time someone here said "haki is a force field" they are talking about Black Haki, Hardening, whatever way you guys like to call it.

I am pretty sure the manga also does that from time to time, saying someone's haki is weak or strong or whatever without actually saying what type/subtype they are talking about.

Rayleigh was also talking about Koka there, it makes no sense to "like a invisible armor" to be about aura vision or any other, the only subtype that makes sense to be called an armor is Koka.
 
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Damage3245 said:
That's a good find but I don't think it conclusively proves anything.

To go back to the "invisible armor" analogy, if you are wearing armor and you get hit hard enough, your body underneath the armor is still going to have damage / bruises. Haki doesn't make you invulnerable.

And the black coating level of Armament Haki there, I'm not proposing that's a type of forcefield that extends far above the skin. It being on the skin itself (and therefore able to leave an impression of Luffy's face on the shield) is more along the lines of what I'm thinking.
Click to expand...
Armament Haki is often referred to as armor, but that's only because it provides hardness, which provides protection and improves offensive power. It blends in together with whatever it's imbued over (fuses and becomes one with it) but also retains the properties.

Rubber imbued with Armament Haki does not prohibit it from being Rubber; it just makes it harder, but with Rubbery properties like stretching.
Bamboo imbued with Armament Haki does not prohibit it from being Bamboo; it simply makes it harder, albeit with Bamboo properties.
Diamond imbued with Armament Haki does not stop it from becoming Diamond; it simply makes it harder while maintaining its Diamond properties.

This is why Mingo says Luffy is Rubbery/Bouncy (as he always is when he inflates his body) but Hard as Steel at the same time when he uses Gear 4th. The only difference is that he's now hardened, but he retains all of his natural qualities.
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay, sounds fine to me.
Click to expand...
Could the Haki page please be unlocked?

I'll add Regeneration Negation and Resistance to Spatial Manipulation then revise/remove the NPI and change it with Elemental Intan.

Also
KingTempest said:
What's the issues with resistance negation resistance?
The intan one will be "your explanation makes sense, but it looks like Kata's thing to me, and even though I have no proof, it looks like it, so yeah".

Let's sum up the resistance negation resistance and that's the last one.
Click to expand...
 
Haki page has been unlocked.

I'm hoping Oda just gives us some good elaboration/confirmation on Haki by the end of this arc, or at least within the next hundred chapters please. We've been getting drip-fed details for years.
 
I've added the revisions that was accepted.

Resist to resistance negation, are there any opposers?
 
Does Healing negation count too? Marco also heals himself, and he didn't/couldn't heal his wounds.
 
I don't think there's anyone who opposed it based off the evidence you've brought forward I believe their issues come at the concept of "resistance to resistance negation" but this isn't the place to debate that.

No one who's following this thread has provided issues with it since you asked yesterday so it could be okay to apply.
 
Adding it now, if anyone has an issue of it, please inform me ASAP
 
when you say regen negation are we saying if a aramament haki user were to knock cells arm off it wouldn't regen??
 
@KingTempest; how do you account for the fact that people can be injured by Haki-imbued attacks and yet heal/regenerate naturally? Luffy currently had Mid-Low regen yet he seems to recover fine from Haki-based attacks.
 
Damage3245 said:
@KingTempest; how do you account for the fact that people can be injured by Haki-imbued attacks and yet heal/regenerate naturally? Luffy currently had Mid-Low regen yet he seems to recover fine from Haki-based attacks.
Click to expand...
His Mid-Low regeneration is from meat and milk, they aren't from natural regeneration like Marco's.
 
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