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Broly vs. Vegito Blue.

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So the scaling for both goes like this.

Base Vegito = (Future Trunks Saga SSBKKx10 Goku + Future Trunks Saga SSB Vegeta) x 20-100. And now you stack the transformations on top of him.

Base Broly is somewhere between much weaker than Post-ToP SSG Vegeta and much stronger than Post-ToP SS1 Vegeta who is 40x stronger than Post-ToP Base Vegeta who should be comparable to Post-ToP Base Goku who is stronger than Pre-UIS SSBKK Goku who is 2x-20x stronger than Pre-UIS SSB Goku who is 40x stronger than Pre-UIS SSG Goku who is stronger than Future Trunks Saga SSB Goku.

Honestly I have no clue who has the higher AP since they both have a scaling chain that makes them ridiculously higher than most 3-As in DBS. However I'm going to vote for Broly due to his ridiculous Reactive Power Level which will eventually make him surpass Vegito even if his AP is slightly lower. Plus Vegito has a time limit after it runs out it's pretty much gg for him.
 
Well End of Battle of Gods Saga Base Goku is at least 8x baseline 3-A after absorbing SSG and getting a zenkai boost.

After that Goku could stack transformations on top of his base form that has probably grown even stronger in the Resurrection of Frieza Saga.

After that he's gotten even stronger in the Universe 6 Tournament Saga.

By the end of the Future Trunks Saga his SSB form is at least 10x stronger than before since Post-FT Saga SSB Goku manages to stalemate an even stronger Hit who was comparable to U6 Tournament SSBKKx10 Goku.

By the Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSG Goku became stronger than End of FT Saga SSB Goku since he manages to keep up with Base Dyspo who was beating an even more powerful Hit.

At the end of the tournament after all the UIS/UI limit breaking boosts his base form eventually surpassed his SSBKK form at the beginning of the tournament.

By the Broly Saga he should be even more powerful than he was at the end of the ToP.

So basically scaling from Goku the strongest 3-As of DBS are so ridiculously high into 3-A you would probably need to be a couple billion or trillion times above baseline 3-A to match them in AP.
 
I have an observation even though they have not said it through cano
but it's from both battles
Potara clays have a limit for veggetto
they are only made for kaioshin and limited in time and if there is a desvalance the fusion is finished
in the case of Zamasu, he could force the merger even if the time was up
Gogeta is different its fusion is by means of a dance created by metamorano magical mortals
if it is the same case of zamasu, but "eye"
there are no restrictions by means of clays
gogeta would not have time limit
rather gogeta would be from now on the emblem of perfect fusion of goku and vegeta
can keep the merger until they want and then when they want to finish the merger
that would get an improvement, I hope that it confirms kishimoto since vegeto is limited to the clays
but the fusion dance is very different you can get improvements
instead of clays for a better fusion of vegeto the clays should be improved, greetings
 
The strongest Dragon Ball 3-As are in the billions or trillions via sheer scaling and multipliers though.

Base Goku by the end of Battle of Gods is at least 8x baseline 3-A. Than his base form gets even stronger through training in Resurrection of Frieza. And that's before stacking the multipliers for each form on him. Than he gets even stronger through more training in the Universe 6 Tournament Saga. There's also the thing with him getting 10x stronger after the Future Trunks Saga and than 40x stronger by the beginning of the Universe Survival Saga. And eventually after the Tournament of Power his base form surpassed his strongest 3-A form at the beginning of the Tournament of Power. Before he gets even stronger in the Broly Saga due to more training.

SS1 is accepted as 40x on the site and Kaioken multipliers are accepted. So if we assume low balls such as both SS2 and SS3 being a 2x multiplier with SSG being a mere 10x multiplier. The multiplier scaling would be like this if we also assume his base never got any stronger in between Battle of Gods and Universe 6 Tournament.

8 (End of Battle of Gods/Resurrection of Frieza/Universe 6 Tournament Base Goku) x 40 = 320 (Universe 6 Tournament SS1) x 2 = 640 (Universe 6 Tournament SS2) x 2 = 1,280 (Universe 6 Tournament SS3) x 10 = 12,800 (Universe 6 Tournament SSG) x 40 = 512,000 (Universe 6 Tournament SSB) x 10 = 5,120,000 (Universe 6 Tournament SSBKKx10/Future Trunks Saga SSB/Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSG) x 40 = 204,800,000 (Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSB) x 20 = 4,096,000,000 (Universe Survival Saga Pre-UIS SSBKKx20/Broly Saga Base) x 40 = 163,840,000,000 (Broly Saga SS1)

A hypothetical low balled Broly Saga SS1 Goku would be 163,840,000,000x above baseline 3-A. And Broly is above this in base. And this is the ridiculously low balled version assuming SSG is only 10x even though it's multiplier is supposed to be bigger than a hypothetical fusion of Vegito in Battle of Gods which is at least 200x if we assume a low ball.

But at least we know it's impossible for Dragon Ball 3-As to be quadrillions of times above baseline. Since after they reach the quadrillions they will be Low 2-C instead of 3-A. Since Dragon Ball can apparently jump infinity after they reach a certain lvl of power.
 
I don't think there's any way to find out who's stronger here. While Broly made Vegeta struggle as SSJ and made him go SSG, SSB Vegito is ridiculously above SSB Goku and Vegeta from the Black arc.
 
Do you mean something like "I am trillions of times stronger than I was when I unlocked SSG for the first time" or do you want an author statement along those lines? If the multipliers are accurate, then isn't that the proof needed?
 
The real cal howard said:
There is literally no fiction that we will reasonably accept to be trillions of times above the feat they scale to without explicit mention and (and, not or) proof. I don't care if it's Dragon Ball or Digimon or Umineko.
Click to expand...
What other fiction has scaling like this?
 
No. No it is not. Unless you want sh*t like quintillions of times baseline 3-A Methuselah via scaling from a 5-B statement. Multipliers only go so far before they're thrown out the window.
 
The real cal howard said:
No. No it is not. Unless you want sh*t like quintillions of times baseline 3-A Methuselah via scaling from a 5-B statement. Multipliers only go so far before they're thrown out the window.
Click to expand...
That's because 3-A Dies Irae cast are outliers, not that the multipliers are ridiculous.
 
What other fiction has scaling like this?

Literally any shounen has power progression. Heck, pretty much any battle fiction does. For example, Ash's Pikachu has been High 6-C since halfway into Kanto twenty goddamn years ago.
 
That's because 3-A Dies Irae cast are outliers, not that the multipliers are ridiculous.

The two are literally in the same boat here. And yes, it's because it's ridiculous, not because of outliers. This is the same verse that reaches 1-A with fodder.
 
The real cal howard said:
Literally any shounen has power progression. Heck, pretty much any battle fiction does. For example, Ash's Pikachu has been High 6-C since halfway into Kanto twenty goddamn years ago.
Click to expand...
Other Shonens aren't in a tier that is infinite in size and progress from 3-A to Low 2-C via feats.

Those other Shonens have power progression, and they have feats that put them in a higher tier, so if the scaling goes way beyond the feats, then it would be disregarded.

This can't happen in 3-A as there is no higher tier that you can naturally reach.
 
So does that mean someone that gets a infinite multiplier from a transformation wouldn't get a high 3-A (3-D variant), if there are no feats that come close in the series?
 
The real cal howard said:
The two are literally in the same boat here. And yes, it's because it's ridiculous, not because of outliers. This is the same verse that reaches 1-A with fodder.
Click to expand...
No, it's not.

A much stronger Reinhard scales to a 4-A feat, so a weaker feat can't be 3-A.

It is a contradiction, not that the multiplier is really high.

We scale Meth's mindhax off that multiplier just fine, and we consider it the strongest 3-D mindhax on the site because of said multiplier.
 
@Hue. High 3-A would be acceptable as that's one transformation, and that's the point of it. DB comes from scaling and stacking to the point of ridiculousness.

@Warren. If anything, that makes it even more unacceptable. They don't surpass tiers despite there being a finite number between the tiers. Other Shounen, for example, Yu Yu Hakusho. Both, Raize and Shinobu Sensui are 6-B. Yet Raizen in his prime is so far above Sensui that I couldn't do it justice in this thread.
 
"We scale Meth's mindhax off that multiplier just fine, and we consider it the strongest 3-D mindhax on the site because of said multiplier."

An outlier is an outlier, for hax and AP. I'd it'd be an outlier for the AP, it would be an outlier for the hax. Meth doesn't even need the multiplier to have the best 3-D mindhax with the feat he has (seriously, f*** DI for doing everything in its power to have story breaking powers). It's that good regardless.
 
I highly doubt anything in Yu Yu Hakusho could compare to Dragon Ball's scaling.

This just sounds like you don't like that Dragon Ball has an AP value that is logically this high.
 
The real cal howard said:
"We scale Meth's mindhax off that multiplier just fine, and we consider it the strongest 3-D mindhax on the site because of said multiplier."

An outlier is an outlier, for hax and AP. I'd it'd be an outlier for the AP, it would be an outlier for the hax. Meth doesn't even need the multiplier to have the best 3-D mindhax with the feat he has (seriously, f*** DI for doing everything in its power to have story breaking powers). It's that good regardless.
Click to expand...
Code: 
Make a CRT then.
 
Firstly, it's no secret that I don't like Dragon Ball on here (though I love it when it's not VSBW related), and it's not logical.

Secondly, it depends on if you're talking about gaps proportionally or pure stats. If it's the latter, obviously. The former is hilariously untrue. Even disregarding the gaps, at least YYH shows the superiority by one shotting people that were lower on the scaling chain. Yusuke one-shots multiple demons who each are said to be able to do the same to someone on Sensui's level, and Yusuke isn't anywhere near the top yet. DBS fails to give one instance of someone one shotting someone they previously had trouble with.
 
That's probably because most people train after their first encounters so they're stronger than they were the first time or are still so much more stronger that the newly stronger character even after the buff can't one shot or hurt them.
 
Also, neither SMT nor Digimon's insane chains are recognized go up to trillions, and they have an infinite tier too. Same with Lavos as the Time Devourer, even though a fragment of the power of a piece of it that fell off of it when it was 5-A is massively above baseline 2-A.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
That's probably because most people train after their first encounters so they're stronger than they were the first time or are still so much more stronger that the newly stronger character even after the buff can't one shot or hurt them.
Click to expand...
Or, and this is the much more logical assessment, the boost isn't as major as people hype it up to be.

Take the ToP, where despite people hyping up the stomp chains, not a single person gets one-shot.
 
Guys guys it's Broly vs Vegito. It's not even DB vs something, it's DB vs DB. Every DB thread doesn't have to turn out like this.
 
I mean, it's not like Base Goku after the tournament of power can oneshot Vegeta in SSB currently just because he's able to do it to a weaker Vegeta in SSB from the past.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
I mean, it's not like Base Goku after the tournament of power can oneshot Vegeta in SSB currently just because he's able to do it to a weaker Vegeta in SSB from the past.
Click to expand...
I highly doubt base Goku could even one-shot RoF SSB Vegeta.
 
Peter1129 said:
So the scaling for both goes like this..
Click to expand...
You cannot stack kaioken on top of Goku while measuring Base fusion power levels. Kaioken is completely different from normal transformations.

Also SSB KKx10 Goku was able to hurt Merged Zamasu somehow. While SSB Vegito was fighting on par with him. Which make things even more complicated.
 
Well even if it's just SSB Goku + SSB Vegeta x tens of times Vegito is still one of the strongest 3-As of Dragon Ball.

SSBKKx10 Goku managing to hurt Fusion Zamasu is an outlier. Goku Black was already stated to be the strongest non Fusion and god character of the Future Trunks Saga. So the fact that somebody weaker than a fusee can harm the Fusion is an outlier.
 
That's because every character gets stronger, or they hold back against weaker opponents because they like fighting.

And it is logical scaling. ABC logic applies in Dragon Ball because the series is almost purely physical in its characters abilities. The transformations and amplifications are consistent.

Logically, this how strong these characters should be when using the logic from the series.

You wouldn't say that Goku needs to stomp Raditz-level characters after he defeats Frieza to prove that he got stronger, right?

Just because it is ridiculously high, doesn't mean it should be disregarded. Case in point, Meth from Dies Irae's mind hax, which is even more ridiculous as it is one multiplier instead of numerous ones from an entire series.

You need proof to say the scaling is wrong, not "it doesn't feel right", I don't like Pokemon gods being so powerful, but I don't deny their power because it doesn't sit right with me.
 
Not my fault they don't have feats backing it up.

ABC logic applies to everything, not just DB. DB gets enough special treatment as it is. Furthermore, did you see the three new examples I put above?

No, because Goku scales to feats far above Raditz due to being tier 4, and more importantly, Nappa was stomping multiple people who are each on Raditz's level casually. Furthermore, getting stronger doesn't mean you got stronger by multiple factors of ten each time.

Again, Meth's mindhax is just that high. They're different cases. Also, yeah, it kinda does. PMMM supporters stopped applying the multiplier because it was too high and put Madoka well into 4-A, if not, 3-A, as a lowball. Even I plan to push back some 5-A Pokémon because they scale to a 5-B feat although their multiplier makes the most sense out of all of them.

...you piqued my interest there. Why don't you like the Pokegods being so powerful?

Also, Broly FRA.
 
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