DRAGON BALL SUPER MANGA SPEED UPGRADE :O (PART 2)

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I agree with that, what I don't agree with is giving a multiplier to the UI (I don't know if this has already been discussed)
I agree that UI > Broly ~ Gogeta SB

Broly is not SSB Gogeta level, or even close to it. He was destroying Broly without breaking a sweat. It's almost to the same extent as the manga version of Vegito VS Zamasu

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Broly is not SSB Gogeta level, or even close to it. He was destroying Broly without breaking a sweat. It's almost to the same extent as the manga version of Vegito VS Zamasu

I know Broly is weaker than Gogeta SSB, but I put it relative because Goku doubted the victory they had over him.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

I know Broly is weaker than Gogeta SSB, but I put it relative because Goku doubted the victory they had over him.

I also don't know if it counts, but Broly withstood the Stardust Breaker, which according to the guide of its appearance says that it only works against opponents with a significant difference
(As I said, I don't know if it counts because the information is from the movie guide)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I know Broly is weaker than Gogeta SSB, but I put it relative because Goku doubted the victory they had over him.

Even in the manga it wasn't close at all from the single panel featured in the movie. The director even said they struggled to make the fight longer because of the huge power gap. Gogeta was so much above Broly at wasn't even funny

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Even in the manga it wasn't close at all from the single panel featured in the movie. The director even said they struggled to make the fight longer because of the huge power gap. Gogeta was so much above Broly at wasn't even funny

Okey reading the manga again Super Hero says that Goget SSB > Broly SS FP

 

[RedReaper616]

Not really my thread, but I find the FSF point not at all convincing. The reason being is because it’s established quite CLEARLY Vegeta was doing no damage to Moro. So much so no one understands why he’s just attacking like he is and considers his charges to be foolish. Doing physical injury is entirely unnecessary for the technique. All that matters is connecting. The reason why Moro makes that claim is because he let Vegeta take the first attack initiative, like he does against Goku, and acted like a tank/enjoyed the fight. For example, when intrigued, he went to fight Goku rather than just use his planetary level absorption. He also approaches battles cautiously this way, as he mentioned to Goku, and we see him use this tank like strategy first thing again against the Androids. He also outright likes beating his enemies before consuming them, hence why he entertains his fights. It also doesn’t make much sense to assume he could inflict damage on this Moro, because he was much stronger than ever before and Vegeta explicitly couldn’t prior.

Point being, Moro was not taking damage, and those hits only landed because Moro loves playing with weaker individuals. However, FSF works regardless of physical injury, nerfing the opponent, meaning Moro was not referring to actual damage so much as literally just getting hit at all, hence why the move is dodging and not just tanking it.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I agree with that, what I don't agree with is giving a multiplier to the UI (I don't know if this has already been discussed)
I agree that UI > Broly ~ Gogeta SB

It be less giving it a multi-player and more so acknowledging it scales above that multiplier number listed you know?

 

[Damage3245]

Point being, Moro was not taking damage, and those hits only landed because Moro loves playing with weaker individuals. However, FSF works regardless of physical injury, nerfing the opponent, meaning Moro was not referring to actual damage so much as literally just getting hit at all, hence why the move is dodging and not just tanking it.

I agree. Same reason why 73-Moro opted to dodge Vegeta's subsequent attacks even though he'd grown even more powerful than before.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I agree. Same reason why 73-Moro opted to dodge Vegeta's subsequent attacks even though he'd grown even more powerful than before.

I have to say, isn't this just..blatantly going against what's said? I'd have to go back and check but I'm sure it's said in no uncertain terms that some damage needs to be done and vegeta had gotten more powerful then he had ever been when he fought moro again, so it makes sense he'd gain enough power to at least effect him a bit (he got many times stronger on yardrate because his soul was imbalanced)

 

[RedReaper616]

He got stronger, but it’s heavily stressed Vegeta’s output just isn’t on the level to actually damage Moro. The issue is FSF works so long as you make contact with your foe, hence why Moro must dodge and not let himself outright tank the hits like he enjoys doing.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The gap between Super Saiyan Blue and Ultra Instinct being that high seems inconsistent.

SSB Goku is able to fight on relative terms with Awakened Gas.

That's SSB Goku using the UI technique. And we have no figure for how much that does for him beyond Base Goku dodging blasts that SS Vegeta exerts effort to dodge.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Broly is not SSB Gogeta level, or even close to it. He was destroying Broly without breaking a sweat. It's almost to the same extent as the manga version of Vegito VS Zamasu

This is somewhat inaccurate if we go off a Saikyo Jump statement that exist specifically for the manga version of Broly. In the lower right corner it states this:

"When he awakens to the power of a Full Power Super Saiyan, he fights evenly against Gogeta and others, but his rage causes him to lose control, making it easy to forget his true potential. If he can control his emotions and keep calm, he’s sure to win!!"​

​

For context this has nothing to do with the movie when it released. This article came out during the Granolah Saga after Ultra Ego debuted and features it when discussing possible routes Broly could take. According to it Broly, at least in the manga, is equivalent to Gogeta Blue but lacks control over his emotions. Which means he doesn't use his power properly and fights sloppily. So Gogeta didn't stomp Broly with power. He stomped Broly with superior skill and calmer judgement.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

This is somewhat inaccurate if we go off a Saikyo Jump statement that exist specifically for the manga version of Broly. In the lower right corner it states this:

"When he awakens to the power of a Full Power Super Saiyan, he fights evenly against Gogeta and others, but his rage causes him to lose control, making it easy to forget his true potential. If he can control his emotions and keep calm, he’s sure to win!!"​

​

For context this has nothing to do with the movie when it released. This article came out during the Granolah Saga after Ultra Ego debuted and features it when discussing possible routes Broly could take. According to it Broly, at least in the manga, is equivalent to Gogeta Blue but lacks control over his emotions. Which means he doesn't use his power properly and fights sloppily. So Gogeta didn't stomp Broly with power. He stomped Broly with superior skill and calmer judgement.

But the problem is that in the Manga Says that Gogeta SSB > Broly SS FP

 

[CryoTheMayo]

But the problem is that in the Manga Says that Gogeta SSB > Broly SS FP

As I stated in my post. Broly can't control his emotions so he can't use his power effectively. As it states he 'forgets his true potential'. Broly's raw power is Gogeta-level but he can't use it properly.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

I have to say, isn't this just..blatantly going against what's said? I'd have to go back and check but I'm sure it's said in no uncertain terms that some damage needs to be done and vegeta had gotten more powerful then he had ever been when he fought moro again, so it makes sense he'd gain enough power to at least effect him a bit (he got many times stronger on yardrate because his soul was imbalanced)

Well the Manga says that after Broly Saga Goku and Vegeta become stronger than never

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

As I stated in my post. Broly can't control his emotions so he can't use his power effectively. As it states he 'forgets his true potential'. Broly's raw power is Gogeta-level but he can't use it properly.

Well this explain why Goku doubt about his victory against Broly and why Broly can resist the stardust breaker

 

[Damage3245]

Well this explain why Goku doubt about his victory against Broly and why Broly can resist the stardust breaker

Isn't the "doubting victory" part just that they didn't know right away how Broly disappeared?

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Isn't the "doubting victory" part just that they didn't know right away how Broly disappeared?

I doubt it. In the movie, Gogeta realizes that they summoned Sheng Long and then Goku goes to where Broly is, meaning he knew he went somewhere else.

Also, Gogeta saw how Broly was transported to another place in a red light.

So it's like saying he didn't know how he disappeared.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Isn't the "doubting victory" part just that they didn't know right away how Broly disappeared?

I personally wouldn't interpret it that way. Goku states they 'somehow' won while showing Gogeta Blue about to defeat Broly then casually says Broly went back to Vampa.

From my perspective Goku, who is telling the story, wouldn't say 'we somehow won' if he was referring to Broly warping to Vampa. Not when he immediately follows that up by saying Broly was sent back to Vampa. And Gogeta also reacted to Shenron being summoned and watched Broly warp to Vampa (like Tomato said). We can even see the Dragon Balls scattering in his vision. He knows they were used.

 

[Damage3245]

I personally wouldn't interpret it that way. Goku states they 'somehow' won while showing Gogeta Blue about to defeat Broly then casually says Broly went back to Vampa.

From my perspective Goku, who is telling the story, wouldn't say 'we somehow won' if he was referring to Broly warping to Vampa. Not when he immediately follows that up by saying Broly was sent back to Vampa. And Gogeta also reacted to Shenron being summoned and watched Broly warp to Vampa (like Tomato said). We can even see the Dragon Balls scattering in his vision. He knows they were used.

Fair enough but given that it is showing the very moment that Broly was being teleported off-world when Goku says that they somehow won, it leads me to think that Broly being removed from the fight in that scene is the 'victory' they accomplished.