Bleach Revisions

[MachTwo]

Yammy did say he is above Ulquiorra however Yammy is known to be shit at reiatsu sensing
It also doesn't help that All of his feats ''bar one decent feat'' is hilariously underwhelming compared to Ulquiorra..Lets see:

>>>Rukia can somewhat harm him with low level Kido:

>>>Half power regular bankai ichigo can canceled his Cero Orcuras with Getsuga
to his credit he still charging it but nevertheless is a poor performance from him

>>>Ichigo can block his punches

>>>He hits Ichigo with multiple bala yet none of them do anything to ichigo other than pushing him backward

>>>Zaraki and byakuya think him as a joke

>>>Even for his Rage form, Zaraki still think him as a waste of time

Now before you say, But Yammy is still>>Sagunda Etapa.
To that I say yes, he is>>>>>Sagunda Etapa if you give him all day to rage and powerup from it, which is the reason why hes that high on the rank, he can power up even after Resurrección. But Yammy by the time of his death still haven't reached that level yet.

1 other feats for Sagunda Etapa is that Aizen specifically placed him as the last barrier for ichigo to overcome and power up before they fight
thats how much Aizen value Sagunda Etapa.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Me, IMade, and Aerna only scaled Yammy above Res 1 Ulquiorra. I don’t think we scaled any Espada to Segunda.

Wasn't that 1st for yammy was bellow but that 2nd form yammy (gorilla) was above?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Wasn't that 1st for yammy was bellow but that 2nd form yammy (gorilla) was above?

Nah, the statements put him above Res 1 for every Espada. But remember Yammy has a rage mechanic where he just keeps getting stronger. He’s still the strongest overall likely but he needs time.

 

[Purgy]

In that case Starrk, Baraggan, Harribel, Toshiro, Shunsui, Kenpachi, Toshiro, Soi Fon, Yammy and Byakuya need to be removed from the OP.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Nah, the statements put him above Res 1 for every Espada. But remember Yammy has a rage mechanic where he just keeps getting stronger. He’s still the strongest overall likely but he needs time.

I know that is a 10x boost


Also in the novels was it stated that at 70% he was equal to yammy or hollow ichigo?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Ehh idk anything about that. I assume this is from the Azashiro novel.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

In that case Starrk, Baraggan, Harribel, Toshiro, Shunsui, Kenpachi, Toshiro, Soi Fon, Yammy and Byakuya need to be removed from the OP.

Yea, only aizen and yamaji scale imo

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Ehh idk anything about that. I assume this is from the Azashiro novel.

Yea, I remember something about cien at 70% or something was equal to hollow ichigo or above and he was around yammy level or something like that.

 

[Makstar05]

Shouldn’t Yammy scale above Ulq R2 as well coz Ulq didn’t know about Yammy being 0 Espada which should support the multiple statements

 

[Damage3245]

Shouldn’t Yammy scale above Ulq R2 as well coz Ulq didn’t know about Yammy being 0 Espada which should support the multiple statements

How is that a reason to scale?

 

[Makstar05]

Coz Ulq doesnt know about him being 0 and claims there r only 4 stronger than him but then Yammy in his 0 form says hes stronger than Ulq??Maybe I’m wrong.

 

[Damage3245]

Coz Ulq doesnt know about him being 0 and claims there r only 4 stronger than him but then Yammy in his 0 form says hes stronger than Ulq??Maybe I’m wrong.

At the time Ulquiorra made that statement, Yammy wasn't stronger than him.

Also, Ulquiorra almost certainly knows about Yammy's Resureccion strength because he told him to take care of multiple Captains.

 

[Makstar05]

But Yammy,even tho hes trash at using Pesquisa sensed when Ulq died.So if hes able to sense the fading reiatsu of a person whos dying means he most definitely sensed his R2 reiatsu and made the statement about being stronger than Ulq,Grimmjow and Nnoitra after gaining knowledge about R2.

 

[Purgy]

Yea, I remember something about cien at 70% or something was equal to hollow ichigo or above and he was around yammy level or something like that.

Uryu was reminded of Ichigo vs Ulquiorra when watching Cien vs Kenpachi, that's all I remember, it wasn't directly said that Cien was equal to Ichigo.

And it was less than 30% Cien that was above Yammy.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Uryu was reminded of Ichigo vs Ulquiorra when watching Cien vs Kenpachi, that's all I remember, it wasn't directly said that Cien was equal to Ichigo.

And it was less than 30% Cien that was above Yammy.

Ye that is what I bagely remember.
But there was no statement if cien compared to ichigo power?

 

[Purgy]

Ye that is what I bagely remember.
But there was no statement if cien compared to ichigo power?

No statement saying that as far as I remember.

 

[Purgy]

Also, slightly unrelated, but I noticed that Cien doesn't even have a profile.

Should he get one? Or maybe a key under Szayelaporro.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I am confused about a few things

• Ichigo only putting a scratch on Yammy brought up as an anti feat when an Ichigo twice as strong was cutting Aizen? The same Aizen who is > all of the Espada combined.
• Aizen apparently leaving Ulq as the last defense and valuing his SE but then also arguing Aizen doesn’t know about/include SE as part of the ranking system.
• Dismissing a data book statement with some arbitrary assertion that it doesn’t refer to Ulq at his best and excludes a specific form which is the primary thought when one thinks of his strength all the while accepting that it refers to the others in said statement at their best.
• Kenny seeing him as a joke even though Kenny was already carving through the strongest Hierro before he got his Zenkai boost of getting close to death from Nnoitra.
• Arguing the scale of Yammy’s feats ......... I guess we are gonna ignore the basics of scaling and judge each and every feat by the merit of the feat’s DC now. Didn’t realise this was comicvine but I guess Ulq is god tier via consistently being country level from feats and statements while everyone else gets street level to building
• Every interaction with 50% Bankai Ichigo somehow being an anti feat even though Ichigo has gotten stronger than before he fought Ulq. Example is how Retsu compared just 50% of his base Bankai to a captain ......... Captains who are in FKT fighting Espada > Ulq.
  • And no one even bother arguing she can be referring to SS arc trash when current Captains just no diffed the low tier Espada that SS Ichigo scale below. KS aside, Aizen would merc something just x2 SS arc Captains with his reiatsu alone.​

Unless people think are thinking BS like Yammy < base Ulq (which is very much the implication in posts above or they are just shot gunning), ditch the ratoric and make a valid argument.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Cien at 30% got compared to the Vasto Lorde who could have completely murdered Segunda Etapa.

I swear why am I seeing Ulquiorra wank again? "Oh he's out of the standard" And? He's still literally the 4th. A unquantifiable transformation will not make him that much stronger than literally everyone else that's stronger than him to begin with.

I need you to remember one thing. Luppi. That just shows there's a big gap between each Espada.

Yammy being affected by Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou? Wasn't that Ichigo already the version that fought Gin and even tried to scrap with Aizen? And almost cut him in half but Soul Reapers generally survive a lot of fatal wounds until plot decides that no so minor injuries to them will take it down (Cough cough Rukia) Which would still prove that he's scaling to that Aizen since he had just tanked a Hadou 96 from Yama which meant Aizen would be on guard at that point even saying he underestimated Yama for that stunt.

 

[Damage3245]

@Dangai Ichigo; he's 4th based on his base self and first Resurreccion. His 2nd Resurreccision has nothing to do with that.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Then how can anyone argue that Aizen knows about SE? The rankings are based on the reiatsu of your current form as seen with Yammy. Why else is it that only Yammy’s rank changes number while nothing of the sort happens to the others? Cero Yammy is simply stronger than every other Espada in any of their forms during the Arrancar Saga.

 

[Damage3245]

@AnonymousBlank; to clarify, I don't think any of my points of were dependent on Aizen knowing about SE. That'd be somebody else's argument.

And if you're going to go down that route with the Espada numbers; Ulquiorra's number completely disappears when he uses SE. Which could be an additional reason not to count him among the rest of the Espada in that form.

 

[Zero0zero0zero]

I'm against Yammy > Ulquiorra, there was no way to Yammy know about R2. His statement goes far as the regular Resurrección but has nothing to do with R2.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Everyone else loses their number when they transform, see Ulq and Harribel in Res. We literally can’t see the number positions for any other members once they transform besides Yammy who is the only one shown to retain his compared to the other two. The number not being there in SE isn’t an argument when it is no longer there for anyone else or even Ulq in R1.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Except that the statemnt was general

 

[Damage3245]

@AnonymousBlank; fair enough, but the rest of your argument like how Yammy's is the only one whose number changes when he activates his Resureccion is irrelevant. Ulquiorra's 2nd Resureccion just isn't part of his rank.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Then you can argue Yammy is outside of rank as well since he's such a weird case of keeping his ranking...Speaking of which Aizen stating he's above all of the Espada he went to gather combined would include Previous Espada like Cien as well?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Then you can argue Yammy is outside of rank as well since he's such a weird case of keeping his ranking...Speaking of which Aizen stating he's above all of the Espada he went to gather combined would include Previous Espada like Cien as well?

I would imagine he would also mean cien

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Damage3245
But why? Aizen when telling Ichigo of how he set up everything to make him stronger showed SE in a panel. This also is irrelevant to the data book statement which simply lists Ulquiorra as one of the people he is stronger than. Where does it mention that it’s only based on what Aizen is aware of? Or that SE is outside the ranking system? You need to prove that it is excluding SE or else saying so is just an empty claim that should be dismissed without any further thought.

@Dangai_Ichigo
I would say we should only take into account the current generation of Espada during HM but seeing as timeskip characters would scale above Cien and Aizen is still somehow relevant to them in scaling despite the ridiculous power cliff, I think it’s fine to include Cien among the Espada < Aizen.

 

[MachTwo]

Should've including that one and only decent feats yammy have, which where he tanked getsuga from hollow ichigo but with ichigo himself says that his mask wasn't feels right. Yammy have nothing on his side other than some statement which can be interpreted differently due to his unique ability and him hyping himself, literally.

@Dangai_Ichigo : Oh please read their profiles, or what sigurd says, the espada never scale to sagunda etapa in the first place
After this maybe i need to do small change to their reasoning to make their justification more specific.

 

[Damage3245]

Then you can argue Yammy is outside of rank as well since he's such a weird case of keeping his ranking...Speaking of which Aizen stating he's above all of the Espada he went to gather combined would include Previous Espada like Cien as well?

The fact the has a new ranking proves that he is not outside of the Espadara ranking... This is such a weird argument to try and make.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@AnonymousBlank; fair enough, but the rest of your argument like how Yammy's is the only one whose number changes when he activates his Resureccion is irrelevant. Ulquiorra's 2nd Resureccion just isn't part of his rank.

Just realised I didn’t respond to most of this post and only the last sentence. The point of bringing up that Yammy’s number changes and doesn’t disappear is that the only case of a rank changing via release is the only time it stays. Occam’s razor says that if you surpass a rank above you, your number sticks around and reflects said change.

 

[USklaverei]

So, the conclusion is to remove the 4 swords and climb only Yama, Aizen and Wonder?

 

[Makstar05]

Why does Wonderweiss scale to Yama??

 

[Damage3245]

I'd also like to see the reasoning for each character scaling, not just a list of who should scale.

 

[Makstar05]

The problem I have with Wonderweiss is that although he managed to seal Yama’s Shikai,he later got annihilated by a bare handed Yama and couldn’t even scratch him.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Yea, wonderweiss I am a bit iffy

Thonqizen and old man i accept

 

[Damage3245]

The problem I have with Wonderweiss is that although he managed to seal Yama’s Shikai,he later got annihilated by a bare handed Yama and couldn’t even scratch him.

That's because he sealed Yama's Shikai through fire-sealing hax. He doesn't scale to Yama at all.

 

[Makstar05]

That's because he sealed Yama's Shikai through fire-sealing hax. He doesn't scale to Yama at all.

I agree.I also thought he did it thru sealing hax.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I mean yea, he was just made to seal the shikai