Kenpachi's upgrade

[SilentBob34]

Neutral, leaning towards disagreeing atm.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

He wasn't limiting himself here after she bitch slapped him.


Only here. If he's massively superior to her then how in the world is she a foe?? She would just be another corpse added to his pile. But she wasn't and they were relative. Only in this shot below did Kenpachi notice Unohana won't be able to keep up much longer. This is when he starts to shackle.

Its heavily implied they had an epic battle and when Kenpachi realized she was probably gonna die he started to hold back. In fact it's an endurance feat if anything. He's always been able to take wounds that would normally kill others.

The entire fight wasn't just one stab in her chest and her bitch slapping him. It was presumably an epic battle one where Unohana was slightly inferior or maybe she couldn't keep up on endurance. She literally bitch slapped him like a ragdoll and I'm supposed to think she's ridiculously weaker than him? Again he only held back during that facial expression above. And she was the only that rivaled his power and guess what?

She said only he was stronger than him. It's crazy I know but she scales until you tell me how Bankai Unohana is inferior to base Unohana. When the latter rivaled his power prior to limiting. Or maybe just maybe all the healing a near death/dying target a countless amount of times on top of her just accepting his blade when she realized he broke all his shackles, mattered.


And she said she's stronger than anyone but him and u said it yourself... She was hinting at royd when she said why you lost. So why would it not apply now? Ohh ok so if Unohana mentions/hints he would have beat royd.. that's okay but if she says shes stronger than anyone but him why doesn't Royd matter then??? Why is Royd excluded there and not here... Like what

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ngl I’d be fine downscaling Unohana to baseline Moon level, however she is explicitly stated and consistently so to be weaker than Zaraki. But we can apply a downscale and it would place her at 29.6 Exatons.

 

[Adam1396]

Ngl I’d be fine downscaling Unohana to baseline Moon level, however she is explicitly stated and consistently so to be weaker than Zaraki. But we can apply a downscale and it would place her at 29.6 Exatons.

The flashback had royd, so she should scale higher than royd.
Between comparable characters one can be stronger. So her being half as strong as no eyepatch zaraki is still lowball if we go by fights and statements.
Blutt seems to have 5x multiplier based on "similar enhanchement as bankai" but we are somewhat picky about givng bankai multipliers and treat it case by case basis rather than considering it enhanches overall stats just one/two aspect of combat stats can have greater/less enhanchment than other on specific cases.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No part of that flashback implies she’s Royd level relax brother. That’s rather arbitrary.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Who else is even at 29.6

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

I still think she should scale at minimum base Aizen but personally I'm still going slightly below zaraki no eye patch

 

[Adam1396]

No part of that flashback implies she’s Royd level relax brother. That’s rather arbitrary.

Her statement implies brother. That's not arbitrary at all. Her statement about zaraki beating royd is ok but her being stronger than everybody beside zaraki is not ok, that doesn't sit well brother

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Yea I agree with Adam said I don't think it's fair to imply Kenpachi can beat royd but not when she says shes stronger than anyone but Zaraki. So at most out her base Aizen level but I still think above it

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Her statement implies brother. That's not arbitrary at all. Her statement about zaraki beating royd is ok but her being stronger than everybody beside zaraki is not ok, that doesn't sit well brother

She’s blatantly not stronger than everyone else. We have narrator statements claiming Aizen and Yamamoto are stronger than Unohana. Yhwach is stronger than Unohana by virtue of scaling to Yamamoto. Royd gets his scaling from Kubo saying he’s 75% as strong as Yhwach. There’s no reason to assume Unohana is that level. Her statement about Zaraki being that level is fine because it’s consistent. There are no contradictions for Zaraki being that strong. It’s not that we are cherry picking her statements lil bro, it’s that we are evaluating her statements based around their consistency.

Also, Raven 29.6 Exatons is baseline Moon level, and idk if anyone scales explicitly to that value, but I think there’s a few people around baseline 5-C.

 

[Adam1396]

I still think she should scale at minimum base Aizen but personally I'm still going slightly below zaraki no eye patch

She should be at least shikai yamamoto level, lot higher than the likes of shunsui, she is kenpachi of OG gotei.
Yamamoto constantly had upper hand in fight with royd, royd didn't even manage to touch yamamoto , yamamoto is clearly stronger and they still scale to each other. But unohana somehow can not be scaled to zaraki lol.

She’s blatantly not stronger than everyone else. We have narrator statements claiming Aizen and Yamamoto are stronger than Unohana. Yhwach is stronger than Unohana by virtue of scaling to Yamamoto. Royd gets his scaling from Kubo saying he’s 75% as strong as Yhwach. There’s no reason to assume Unohana is that level. Her statement about Zaraki being that level is fine because it’s consistent. There are no contradictions for Zaraki being that strong. It’s not that we are cherry picking her statements lil bro, it’s that we are evaluating her statements based around their consistency.

Also, Raven 29.6 Exatons is baseline Moon level, and idk if anyone scales explicitly to that value, but I think there’s a few people around baseline 5-C.

We should assume only characters in flash back, gotei. Characters involved, related to the convo, character whose strength unohana knows . That's what means to be contextual.

Since you playing other way, Yamamoto was dead, aizen became transcendental ATP, So her statements clearly doesn't scale either of them. And she knows that very well. Flashback didn't have real ywhach, it had royd, So her statements doesn't include yhwach either.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

She should be at least shikai yamamoto level, lot higher than the likes of shunsui, she is kenpachi of OG gotei.

Being stronger than Shunsui and being the first Kenpachi doesn’t make her Yama level unfortunately, unless you can provide scans that prove such.

Yamamoto constantly had upper hand in fight with royd, royd didn't even manage to touch yamamoto , yamamoto is clearly stronger and they still scale to each other. But unohana somehow can not be scaled to zaraki lol.

I literally just said she can be scaled to Zaraki via a downscale. If you pay attention closely the word scale appears in downscale, as downscaling is still scaling someone to another.

We should assume only characters in flash back. Characters involved, related to the convo. That's what means to be contextual.

Non sequitur.

Since you playing other way, Yamamoto was dead, aizen became transcendental ATP. And she knows that very well. Flashback didn't have real ywhach, it had royd.

I know it had Royd. If you read my post you’d know that.

 

[Adam1396]

Being stronger than Shunsui and being the first Kenpachi doesn’t make her Yama level unfortunately, unless you can provide scans that prove such.

it's just supporting evidence. Databook had only unohana, yamamoto, aizen with 100 points on power category, nobody else.

I literally just said she can be scaled to Zaraki via a downscale. If you pay attention closely the word scale appears in downscale, as downscaling is still scaling someone to another.

That's what I said. Should be quite equal to zaraki, slightly below him. Even making it half of zaraki's power seems unreasonable when they are competetors

Non sequitur.

I know it had Royd. If you read my post you’d know that.

May be you should read this again
We should assume only characters in flash back, gotei. Characters involved, related to the convo, character whose strength unohana knows . That's what means to be contextual.

Since you playing other way, Yamamoto was dead, aizen became transcendental ATP, And she knows that very well.
So her statements clearly doesn't scale either of them. Flashback didn't have real ywhach, it had royd, So her statements doesn't include yhwach either.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

She’s blatantly not stronger than everyone else. We have narrator statements claiming Aizen and Yamamoto are stronger than Unohana.

Unohana was a captain in the flashback where Yama was in his prime. And only said kid Zaraki was above her or his old power. And I saw some of those statements and ones that implied Aizen is above Yamamoto even when it's wrong. It is consistent for Unohana to be above them especially now that Zaraki is when Unohana slightly downscales. Shown in flashback no matter what u can't deny fact they were portrayed comparable in flashback with Kenpachi maybe being slightly above. It's not like she lost when he limited himself. She won. She just wouldn't beat his non limited but she's a competitor and equal/rival by her own words.

Yhwach is stronger than Unohana by virtue of scaling to Yamamoto. Royd gets his scaling from Kubo saying he’s 75% as strong as Yhwach. There’s no reason to assume Unohana is that level. Her statement about Zaraki being that level is fine because it’s consistent.

It's consistent with Unohana too. You act like she lost in a fight or something the only person you she lost to is the person up scaling Royd. Remember those soul society stats where Unohana had really high attack stats? I think maxed out?

There are no contradictions for Zaraki being that strong. It’s not that we are cherry picking her statements lil bro, it’s that we are evaluating her statements based around their consistency.

Also, Raven 29.6 Exatons is baseline Moon level, and idk if anyone scales explicitly to that value, but I think there’s a few people around baseline 5-C.

Too low in comparison to Aizen I looked

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

it's just supporting evidence. Databook had only unohana, yamamoto, aizen with 100 points on power category, nobody else.

Yup

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

it's just supporting evidence. Databook had only unohana, yamamoto, aizen with 100 points on power category, nobody else.

As per my Soul Society arc Captain scaling thread, we aren’t allowed to say that characters who have the same stats explicitly scale to each other.

That's what I said. Should be quite equal to zaraki, slightly below him. Even making it half of zaraki's power seems unreasonable when they are competetors

That’s arbitrary and doesn’t abide by site standards. When you have someone who’s weaker than another character but still low end relative you are able to downscale.

May be you should read this again
We should assume only characters in flash back, gotei. Characters involved, related to the convo, character whose strength unohana knows . That's what means to be contextual.

Since you playing other way, Yamamoto was dead, aizen became transcendental ATP, And she knows that very well.
So her statements clearly doesn't scale either of them. Flashback didn't have real ywhach, it had royd, So her statements doesn't include yhwach either.

Again non sequitur.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Unohana was a captain in the flashback where Yama was in his prime. And only said kid Zaraki was above her or his old power. And I saw some of those statements and ones that implied Aizen is above Yamamoto even when it's wrong. It is consistent for Unohana to be above them especially now that Zaraki is when Unohana slightly downscales. Shown in flashback no matter what u can't deny fact they were portrayed comparable in flashback with Kenpachi maybe being slightly above. It's not like she lost when he limited himself. She won. She just wouldn't beat his non limited but she's a competitor and equal/rival by her own words.

Unohana isn’t stronger than Yamamoto, you tried that thread already and it got rejected. Stop living in denial and stay on topic, debating with what we accept and what’s being proposed by the OP.

It's consistent with Unohana too. You act like she lost in a fight or something the only person you she lost to is the person up scaling Royd. Remember those soul society stats where Unohana had really high attack stats? I think maxed out?

Before you comment on how we utilize the databooks, please review the thread that got them accepted and how they’re allowed to be implemented. It’s my SS arc Captain scaling thread.

Too low in comparison to Aizen I looked

Blatant admission to being a motivated reasoner. This is why no one takes your arguments seriously, no one cares about your incredulity.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Unohana isn’t stronger than Yamamoto, you tried that thread already and it got rejected. Stop living in denial and stay on topic, debating with what we accept and what’s being proposed by the OP.

It is on topic since Kenpachi who Unohana fought scaling whom was comparable to Zaraki in past I won't ignore proof

Before you comment on how we utilize the databooks, please review the thread that got them accepted and how they’re allowed to be implemented. It’s my SS arc Captain scaling thread.

Doesn't make it law. Stats are the same kubo would disagree with you

Blatant admission to being a motivated reasoner. This is why no one takes your arguments seriously, no one cares about your incredulity.

Because she slightly downscales Zaraki who upscaled Royd. It's not being biased that her being far below Aizen is stupid when comparable to someone above Aizen like please

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It is on topic since Kenpachi who Unohana fought scaling whom was comparable to Zaraki in past I won't ignore proof

It really isn’t. Since this thread scaling is actually just meant to be about Zaraki. In which the discussion about Zaraki scaling can be done with 0 discussion of Unohana scaling.

Doesn't make it law. Stats are the same kubo would disagree with you

Given you haven’t addressed any of the reasons regarding why the nature of the databook stats are accepted as they are currently, and are just asserting claims without substantiation, I can dismiss your claims just as simply via hitchen’s razor.

Given that this OP is only focusing on Zaraki scaling, and doesn’t need to inherently encompass anything about Unohana scaling, I’d like to ask Adam and Raven to refrain from further derailment. If you believe this upgrade of Zaraki warrants an equal Unohana upgrade, then by all means make an Unohana thread. But it is disrespectful to the OP and blatant derailing. Part of the blame falls on me for entertaining that derailment, hence I’ll be ceasing here and will seek thread mod aid if the derailing continues.

 

[Adam1396]

As per my Soul Society arc Captain scaling thread, we aren’t allowed to say that characters who have the same stats explicitly scale to each other.

these 3 are clearly above the rest in AP ,which is narratively correct and consistent.

That’s arbitrary and doesn’t abide by site standards. When you have someone who’s weaker than another character but still low end relative you are able to downscale.

Well I don't know if you got 29 exatons by downscaling similar way as royd. But they should be quite equal.

Again non sequitur.

If we are going to scale zaraki higher than royd because of unohana's statement, unohana should scale higher than royd too even if just slightly stronger than royd, just like she is slightly weaker than zaraki. This doesn't scale her higher than bankai yamamoto

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

these 3 are clearly above the rest in AP ,which is narratively correct and consistent.

Well I don't know if you got 29 exatons by downscaling similar way as royd. But they should be quite equal.

If we are going to scale zaraki higher than royd because of unohana's statement, unohana should scale higher than royd too even if just slightly stronger than royd, just like she is slightly weaker than zaraki. This doesn't scale her higher than bankai yamamoto

Given that this OP is only focusing on Zaraki scaling, and doesn’t need to inherently encompass anything about Unohana scaling, I’d like to ask Adam and Raven to refrain from further derailment. If you believe this upgrade of Zaraki warrants an equal Unohana upgrade, then by all means make an Unohana thread. But it is disrespectful to the OP and blatant derailing. Part of the blame falls on me for entertaining that derailment, hence I’ll be ceasing here and will seek thread mod aid if the derailing continues.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

It really isn’t. Since this thread scaling is actually just meant to be about Zaraki. In which the discussion about Zaraki scaling can be done with 0 discussion of Unohana scaling.

Yet the op mentions Aizen, Kisuke... AND Unohana

Given you haven’t addressed any of the reasons regarding why the nature of the databook stats are accepted as they are currently, and are just asserting claims without substantiation, I can dismiss your claims just as simply via hitchen’s razor.

You can't really claim how the stats work if kubo didn't tell you

Given that this OP is only focusing on Zaraki scaling, and doesn’t need to inherently encompass anything about Unohana scaling, I’d like to ask Adam and Raven to refrain from further derailment.

You do realize this saved us for making another thread arguing the same thing?? Plus there might be even people who disagree about the op based on just my Unohana arguments. They might go huh this does scale Unohana so disagree. Would be scummy but it's possible

If you believe this upgrade of Zaraki warrants an equal Unohana upgrade, then by all means make an Unohana thread. But it is disrespectful to the OP and blatant derailing. Part of the blame falls on me for entertaining that derailment, hence I’ll be ceasing here and will seek thread mod aid if the derailing continues.

Or discuss is in a thread that involves the scaling. I said before my arguments could make ppl disagree if they think it scales Unohana. My argument is relevant especially the whole "she mentions Royd here but when she says shes stronger than everyone Royd don't matter then." Some might disagree based on that. Imagine saying its unrelated when the op mentions Unohana

 

[Adam1396]

Given that this OP is only focusing on Zaraki scaling, and doesn’t need to inherently encompass anything about Unohana scaling, I’d like to ask Adam and Raven to refrain from further derailment. If you believe this upgrade of Zaraki warrants an equal Unohana upgrade, then by all means make an Unohana thread. But it is disrespectful to the OP and blatant derailing. Part of the blame falls on me for entertaining that derailment, hence I’ll be ceasing here and will seek thread mod aid if the derailing continues.

Cmon arc. You are better than that. Unohana's statement has been used as main evidence for zaraki upgrade and you think her scaling is irrelevant? She beat post royd fight eyepatchless zaraki more effortlessly than royd beat eyepatch zaraki. She is not irrelevant to this thread at all.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

She is the core of the thread and op mentions a statement UNOHANA made

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

i don’t think either of you two understand what derailing is, so I’ll just snag some thread mods.

Edit: Unohana making a statement about Zaraki’s scaling doesn’t make this an Unohana scaling thread, not a hard concept to grasp. Furthermore, if the OP wanted to tackle Unohana in this thread they would have added an Unohana scaling section.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

i don’t think either of you two understand what derailing is, so I’ll just snag some thread mods.

If you read OP the entire argument is about Unohana wtf

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If you read OP the entire argument is about Unohana wtf

No it isn’t Raven. The OP is about Zaraki’s scaling based on the statements Unohana makes. That is not the same as the OP being about Unohana’s scaling.

I’ve contacted some thread mods to reel this thread back on track.

 

[LordTracer]

@Twisted_Little_Raven @Adam1396 I hate to tell y‘all, but this thread isn’t about Unohana’s scaling, it’s about Zaraki’s. The OP using statements from Unohana about Zaraki doesn’t give you free rein to hijack his thread and turn it into an Unohana upgrade. Make your own thread if you really want to argue for an upgrade.

Any further derailing comments will be deleted.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

No it isn’t Raven. The OP is about Zaraki’s scaling based on the statements Unohana makes. That is not the same as the OP being about Unohana’s scaling.

I’ve contacted some thread mods to reel this thread back on track.

My argument affects Zarakis scaling.

Because accepting his scaling means Unohana scales. Which as u say there are many "contradictions". So u want to remove the only anti argument available? Accepting this means Unohana scales which goes against statements and lore it's super relevant. So it's either Unohana scales or they both don't because it affects Zaraki either way

 

[SilentBob34]

I will say the reasoning that Unohana states Kenpachi has 3 people in Byakuya, Renji, and FB Ichigo who could rival him should be dropped. Blatantly wrong that the OP acknowledges that Byakuya and Renji aren’t on his level and calls it irrelevant but then assumes the strongest form for FB Ichigo when it’s never specified. Just goes to show we shouldn’t believe everything Unohana says

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I will say the reasoning that Unohana states Kenpachi has 3 people in Byakuya, Renji, and FB Ichigo who could rival him should be dropped. Blatantly wrong that the OP acknowledges that Byakuya and Renji aren’t on his level and calls it irrelevant but then assumes the strongest form for FB Ichigo when it’s never specified. Just goes to show we shouldn’t believe everything Unohana says

No it isn’t, read the consistency check section which outright addresses your exact concern.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

@Twisted_Little_Raven @Adam1396 I hate to tell y‘all, but this thread isn’t about Unohana’s scaling, it’s about Zaraki’s. The OP using statements from Unohana about Zaraki doesn’t give you free rein to hijack his thread and turn it into an Unohana upgrade. Make your own thread if you really want to argue for an upgrade.

Any further derailing comments will be deleted.

Problem is it affects Zaraki too because accepting this scaling scales Unohana to which there's a lot of evidence why she doesn't scale. This is the biggest anti feat of the thread

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Lol

 

[LordTracer]

Problem is it affects Zaraki too because accepting this scaling scales Unohana to which there's a lot of evidence why she doesn't scale. This is the biggest anti feat of the thread

Except as things currently are, she doesn’t scale. In fact, Zaraki’s page directly scales him above her. So I reiterate: stop trying to turn this thread into an Unohana upgrade, it’s derailing.

 

[Twisted_Little_Raven]

Ok

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Thanks for getting things back on track Tracer and thanks for listening to Tracer Raven

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

it's just supporting evidence. Databook had only unohana, yamamoto, aizen with 100 points on power category, nobody else.

So did Sajin and Kenny

Anyways, thanks to Arc to arguing with Adam and Raven

 

[Deceived3596]

Also obviously, thanks to Arc and Deceived

I literally did nothing for this thread, you sent me the sandbox and I just said "okay"

On topic: This is fine ig.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

This looks aight.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

KT once told me simple threads can be applied in 24 hours if the vote is unanimous, so this is probably good to be applied?