Bleach Revisions

[USklaverei]

This calculation was accepted and it was decided that it would scale 75% (454.9 Tetatons) for Full Hollow Ichigo and 25% (151.6 Tetatons) for Second Stage Ulquiorra.

Who is affected by this:

• Yammy
• FKTA Aizen
• FKTA Yama
• Hueco Mundo Byakuya
• Kenpachi

It affects more people, but I only mentioned the characters in the arc.

Another thing is that Full Hollow Ichigo with Full Power rises to 909.8 Tetatons (6-A, Continent level)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Looks like some people mentioned concerns about the assumed distance in the manga framing, did that ever get addressed/did you rectify that, because it looks like everything else got sorted out on the og wiki.

 

[MachTwo]

Couple of issue with this:
>>>75% (454.9 Tetatons) for Full Hollow Ichigo and 25% (151.6 Tetatons)
This is never stated anywhere, Ichigo>>>Ulquiorra but we dont know the percentage, it could be 60/40 or 89/11
Better stick with 50/50 but Ichigo will scale above while Ulquiorra will scale below their average number.

>>>Segunda Etapa didn't scale below higher number Espada, at least for fake karakura arc. This has never been the intention of the current scaling
They only scale above his first resurrección.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I think Yammy would still upscale, because I'm pretty sure his current profile rating is based on statements for him being above Ulquiorra.

75/25 came from a compromise in the original calc post but I think your right that since we don't know how much stronger VL Ichigo is to SE Ulquiorra it's safer to do 50/50.

 

[Purgy]

Ichigo's Cero overpowered Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras so at the lowest it should be 60-40 imo.

And yeah, Yammy will always scale above Ulquiorra since he's stated to be stronger than him like twice iirc.

 

[Damage3245]

Does Yammy even know about his Segunda Resurrección?

In fact why would the other Espada be scaling to this?

 

[Purgy]

It wasn't just Yammy that stated it, the databook also that states Yammy is above Ulquiorra, Grimmjow and Nnoitra, multiple times if I remember correctly, and it doesn't specify which form of Ulquiorra so all we can assume is his strongest.

Actually even his page says it

Stated multiple times in the Manga, Novel and Databook that he is above Ulquiorra, Nnoitra and Grimmjow)

I wasn't even aware that it's stated in a novel, that makes like 4 or 5 statements total regarding it.

 

[Damage3245]

Why would we assume the strongest? That seems like a reach.

Especially considering it is a super secret transformation that Yammy would have no knowledge of.

 

[Purgy]

1. It's currently accepted
2. Doesn't seem like a reach to me at all, it's not coming from a character so the argument that they didn't know about his second release doesn't work.

Again, it's not just a statement from Yammy

It's a statement from Yammy + two statements from a databook + a statement from the novel

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; it's not currently accepted because Yammy currently scales to "Country level" and that version of Ulquiorra is currently "At least Country level."

If the statement was "Yammy is stronger than Ulquiorra's 2nd Resurrection" then it wouldn't be an issue. Because of the ambiguity though we shouldn't assume he is by default above his strongest form.

 

[Purgy]

That's a fair point regarding his profile's rating, but even so, I'm fairly sure it is actually accepted at least from what I've seen, so could just be an error.

Several statements about how

1. Yammy is the strongest Espada
2. How he's above Ulquiorra, Grimmjow and Nnoitra

These aren't just character statements, so the argument that they have no knowledge on his second release doesn't work, therefore, when it says he's stronger than Ulquiorra, the base assumption would be he's stronger than Ulquiorra in general, not Ulquiorra in a specific form.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Yammy was 0 for a reason

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; Ulquiorra's 2nd Resurrecion is not part of the standard organizational structure of the Espada.

Yammy is the "strongest Espada" because he is ranked at 0, but Ulquiorra's 2nd Resurrecion is not factored into that ranking.

That statement can't be used.

Yammy can be above Ulquiorra, Grimmjow and Nnoitra ordinarily - but there is no indication that Ulquiorra's 2nd Resurrecion is accounted for in that statement.

You also haven't answered my question for why the other Espada are included in the scaling list up above.

 

[Purgy]

That might be fine for the statement of how Yammy is the strongest Espada, but the statement of how Yammy is above Ulquiorra is enough to say he's superior to R2, you're trying to specify forms when the databook doesn't do this, it's clearly saying it in a general sense.

Yammy is above R2 Ulquiorra, I think that's pretty clear given that there's like 4 or 5 statements saying as such, you're fine to disagree though.

I didn't write the OP? Why would I answer that?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Agree with purgy especially when there are statements not just from manga but also from databook and the novels

 

[Purgy]

Another thing I just realized, Yammy could sense Ulquiorra's battle with Ichigo, he doesn't need to know of R2's existence to make the claim that he's stronger than R2 Ulquiorra.

So yeah, that statements perfectly valid as well.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Forgot he sensed it

 

[Damage3245]

He sensed Ulquiorra's death. That doesn't mean he knew precisely how strong Ulquiorra was.

 

[Makstar05]

If there is a statement in the databook saying hes the strongest then I think its fair to say that Ulq’s R2 was taken into account.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

That just sound like looking for grains of sand to counter imo

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

If there is a statement in the databook saying hes the strongest then I think its fair to say that Ulq’s R2 was taken into account.

Statements from the manga, databooks and even the novels

 

[Purgy]

Doesn't need to be precise, just needs a general idea.

Regardless, several statements from the manga, novel and databook, you can't in good faith actually argue against this.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't have any reason to think that the databook statement is taking Ulquiorra's 2nd Resurrecion into account. Especially when you look at the other names that is being compared to here; Grimmjow and Nnoitra.

It's basically saying Yammy is above Espada 4, 5 and 6 - but Ulquiorra's 2nd transformation is outside of the standard Espada ranking.

 

[Purgy]

Again, it never mentions Ulquiorra's forms so why are you trying to say it's not including his R2? It's a general statement, Yammy is above Ulquiorra in general, it doesn't say he's above R1 Ulquiorra but beneath R2, it just flat out says he's above Ulquiorra, which he is.

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; I've realized that the statement you're referencing isn't originally sourced from the databook. It's from Yammy himself here.

So it isn't right to call it an objective databook statement.

 

[Purgy]

I'm almost certain it's stated in a databook as well, I'll try to find it.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Is on the Unmasked databook

Yammy is the strongest when it comes to AP, dura and reiatsu but otherwise he is weak given that just good hax or a plan can beat him

 

[Zaratthustra]

I agree with Damage, Yammy said he is the strongest Espada when he fought with Zaraki and the company. At the same time, Ulquiorra had his secunda etapa hidden thus the other Espada wouldn't know of how strong he is actually. Going by feats shown in the manga, it also supports Ulquiorra SE > Yammy.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I agree with Damage, Yammy said he is the strongest Espada when he fought with Zaraki and the company. At the same time, Ulquiorra had his secunda etapa hidden thus the other Espada wouldn't know of his how strong he is actually. Going by feats shown in the manga, it also supports Ulquiorra SE > Yammy.

Yet aizen knew of the 2nd transformation and yammy sensed their fight and that ulquiorra died, there is also the fact aizen made yammy espada 0 as the strongest

Then multiple statemnts of yammy being stronger

He is stronger on raw stats and energy but weak on any other way

 

[Purgy]

Yes it definitely is in the databook, but it's basically just reiterating what Yammy himself said from what I can tell.

 

[Damage3245]

@TOAAPRESENCE1; Aizen did not know about his 2nd Resurrecion.

We only know that Yammy sensed Ulquiorra's death.

 

[Makstar05]

If its being argued that Yammy’s weaker than Ulq coz he didn’t know about his R2,the same can be said about Ulq,that he didn’t know about Yammy being Espada 0.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

@TOAAPRESENCE1; Aizen did not know about his 2nd Resurrecion.

We only know that Yammy sensed Ulquiorra's death.

Aizen specifically made the whole ichigo vs ulquiorra happen and even states that, there is also an image of 2nd resurrection ulquiorra when he is talking about It.

do people really think ulquiorra really hide that without aizen knowing?

 

[Damage3245]

If its being argued that Yammy’s weaker than Ulq coz he didn’t know about his R2,the same can be said about Ulq,that he didn’t know about Yammy being Espada 0.

Yammy never implied that was a secret, did he?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Yammy never implied that was a secret, did he?

So therfore everyone knows?

 

[Purgy]

Doesn't the databook also clarify that Aizen did know about R2 and he just humored Ulquiorra by pretending not to know? Might be wrong.

If Yammy sensed his death why wouldn't he be able to at least tell if he's stronger than R2? Yammy's Pesquisa isn't great, but to say he couldn't tell the power difference between himself and R2 Ulquiorra is slightly pushing it.

 

[Makstar05]

Ulquiorra told Ichigo there were 4 Espada stronger than him and that was excluding his R2 which means he didn’t know about Yammy being 0.If he actually did that’d mean R1 Ulq>Rage Form Yammy which clearly isn’t true

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

There is also the fact of aizen explaining that he put ichigo vs people that would make him stronger but people that where around his level also

Either way I will ask sigurd and imade for input given they are the most knowledgable on bleach

 

[Purgy]

On another note @USklaverei Why do you have Starrk, Harribel and Baraggan along with the people that fought them on the list of affected people?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Me, IMade, and Aerna only scaled Yammy above Res 1 Ulquiorra. I don’t think we scaled any Espada to Segunda.