Barbatos and Unexpected Mandrakk upgrade

[Antvasima]

That Perpetua is considered to be 1-A everywhere, even though he children are not.

 

[Transcending]

That Perpetua is considered to be 1-A everywhere, even though he children are not.

I do not think that's a contradiction, Perpetua explicitly scales above her children and there's nothing to suggest her sons scale to her tier. Mar Novu and the such are also weaker than Barbatos who Perpetua vastly scales above, and BWL, who could challenge Mar, himself admitted he's nothing to Perpetua. Additionally, her sons are not her biological sons, she molded them into existence using pieces of the Overvoid.

Perpetua's 1-A is also rock-solid(unless someone downgrades the entire cosmology), so downgrading her would make no sense.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not talking about downgrading Perpetua at her peak in the 6th Dimension. I am talking about that it makes no sense that all of her children are officially far more limited in the 3rd Dimension, whereas she somehow isn't, and that Mandrakk and Barbatos should also scale from Perpetua in this regard rather than The World Forger, for example.

 

[Transcending]

I am not talking about downgrading Perpetua at her peak in the 6th Dimension.

I am aware. I am saying her evidence in 3D is also rock-solid.

I am talking about that it makes no sense that all of her children are officially far more limited in the 3rd Dimension, whereas she somehow isn't

I don't see why, and I explained my reasoning above

I do not think that's a contradiction, Perpetua explicitly scales above her children and there's nothing to suggest her sons scale to her tier. Mar Novu and the such are also weaker than Barbatos who Perpetua vastly scales above, and BWL, who could challenge Mar, himself admitted he's nothing to Perpetua. Additionally, her sons are not her biological sons, she molded them into existence using pieces of the Overvoid.

Perpetua and her sons weren't even made the same, her origin is unknown while the Monitor Brothers are made of the Overvoid.

and that Mandrakk and Barbatos should also scale from Perpetua in this regard rather than The World Forger, for example.

I never said Mandrakk and Barbatos should scale from Perpetua though? I scaled Barbatos and Mandrakk to Quench, who scales to Nil.

 

[Antvasima]

Perpetua's three children combined were explicitly comparable to her in terms of raw power, so I still do not think that them being 2-C possibly 2-A within the 3rd Dimension and Perpetua being a beyond uncountably infinite amount of uncountable infinities above that scale (1-A) makes any logical sense whatsoever, no matter how much you may bother me about it. Sorry.

As for Quench, he was an ill-considered one-shot character that has (thankfully) never appeared again, and the writer for his story did not seem to understand the sheer scale of power that Mandrakk had within Nil in Grant Morrison's original canon. If there really was a 1-A level superhero around, he could easily have solved virtually every single problem and threat within the DC multiverse, and yet he never does.

I think that we should just ignore Tales of the Unexpected as borderline dadaistic nonsense that does not fit into established canon and cosmology, much like we did with Death of the New Gods, even though that was a more extreme case.

Anyway, given that I am not accepting this revision, and that no other staff members are interested, I think that we should close this thread rather than continue to waste time on it.

Also, are you an alternative account for Tonathan100? You sound rather similar.

 

[Transcending]

Perpetua's three children combined were explicitly comparable to her in terms of raw power

Not only was she weakened back then, but they also had part of the Totality with them. Plus the Ultra-Monitor is currently 1-A.

so I still do not think that them being 2-C possibly 2-A within the 3rd Dimension and Perpetua being a beyond uncountably infinite amount of uncountable infinities above that scale (1-A) makes any logical sense whatsoever, no matter how much you may bother me about it. Sorry.

It's already accepted, you can make a CRT to downgrade Perpetua or upgrade The Brothers if you want.

As for Quench, he was an ill-considered one-shot character that has (thankfully) never appeared again, and the writer for his story did not seem to understand the sheer scale of power that Mandrakk had within Nil in Grant Morrison's original canon.

This is irrelevant.

If there really was a 1-A level superhero around, he could easily have solved virtually every single problem and threat within the DC multiverse, and yet he never does.

Quench isn't exactly a superhero. In fact, at the beginning he was helping Mandrakk.

I think that we should just ignore Tales of the Unexpected as borderline dadaistic nonsense that does not fit into established canon and cosmology, much like we did with Death of the New Gods, even though that was a more extreme case.

No, there's nothing supporting it. The Unexpected have no feats outside this, so you cannot downscale them to anything.

Anyway, given that I am not accepting this revision, and that no other staff members are interested, I think that we should close this thread rather than continue to waste time on it.

Other staff members not coming shouldn't be a reason to close this, I just recently asked Maverick and you just recently asked Firestorm, we should wait. If no one comes let this live.

Also, are you an alternative account for Tonathan100? You sound rather similar.

What? No, I have no other accounts here except this one. @Tarang123 can also vouch for me.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, this is not getting accepted in any case. It seems far too unreliable for my taste.

As for Tonathan100, he is a banned member who also made it his life's main mission to upgrade his favourite superhero characters to absolutely unreasonable degrees.

 

[Beyond_transcending]

That's an argument from incredulity

 

[Transcending]

Well, this is not getting accepted in any case. It seems far too unreliable for my taste.

That's an Argument from Incredulity as Beyond_Transcending pointed out. Plus if other staff members agree, it will have to be accepted.

As for Tonathan100, he is a banned member who also made it his life's main mission to upgrade his favourite superhero characters to absolutely unreasonable degrees.

Firstly, I do not like Mandrakk. Never has, I am mostly neutral with a slight dislike towards him. But I am not going to let my personal feelings affect my judgement. Secondly, my life's mission will never be to upgrade my favorite superheroes to unreasonable degrees, especially since VSBW isn't even my main comics-place.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. My apologies for being overly suspicious and a bit rude in that case. I get considerably more easily stressed out and irritable from long arguments about Marvel and DC Comics than from other topics, due to having to act as a buffer against complete unreliability for these verses for so many years now.

Anyway, one of my main job descriptions here is to be incredulous regarding content revisions, especially ones that intend to apply very extreme statistics , which require similarly extreme evidence, and what is available here seems far too inconsistent for my tastes. Basically the writer of this obscure series seems to simply have messed up severely or wantonly not cared if what he write made any sense or not in a greater context, so I still won't accept this, and nobody else even seems willing to evaluate it. Sorry.

 

[Transcending]

Anyway, one of my main jobs here is to be incredulous regarding content revisions, especially ones that intend to apply very extreme statistics , which require similarly extreme evidence, and what is available here seems far too inconsistent for my tastes. Basically the writer of this obscure series seems to simply have messed up severely or wantonly not cared if what he write made any sense or not in a greater context, so I still won't accept this, and nobody else even seems willing to evaluate it. Sorry.

You will need to explain why it's inconsistent however. I explained before how it's not inconsistent, here's the post again if you want-

Can you elaborate on how he was portrayed inconsistently and in a contradictory manner? He only came in #6, #7, and #8. In #6 he one shotted Fuginaut. In #7 he killed Neon and Quench and showed no signs on injury. In #8 we see Hawkman and Firebrand being helpless until Neon and Quench came. After that we see Mandrakk saying Barbatos had a hard time with him, before Neon admitted he can't destroy Mandrakk and instead changed his physiology.

And here are the scans-

Kills Fuginaut, Quench, and Neon. Mandrakk then toys with Hawkman and Firebrand, who are helpless, until Neon and Quench comes. Mandrakk says Barbatos could hardly chain him, and then that he cannot be destroyed, something Neon agrees to, opting to change him instead.

 

[Transcending]

Also I just asked some staff members to evaluate this. Waiting is still the best decision

 

[Antvasima]

I mainly consider this extremely inconsistent due to how Nil was handled as just another regular universe within the story rather than a vastly superior level of reality, if I remember correctly, and due to that Barbatos would end up with 1-A statistics in the 3rd Dimension even though this greatly contradicts how, for example, The Anti-Monitor and Monitor were established to fundamentally work.

 

[Deagonx]

Also I just asked some staff members to evaluate this. Waiting is still the best decision

We can't wait in perpetuity while you bump this thread multiple times a day.

I maintain my opinion that your conclusions are based on poor reasoning. Ant does not seem to agree with them either. I strongly doubt any of the other staff members are going to see it differently, but we cannot spam the forum with bumps if they aren't willing to spend their time on it.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, I think that this thread is a pointless waste of time and that it should be closed very soon.

 

[Transcending]

I mainly consider this extremely inconsistent due to how Nil was handled as just another regular universe within the story rather than a vastly superior level of reality, if I remember correctly, and due to that Barbatos would end up with 1-A statistics in the 3rd Dimension even though this greatly contradicts how, for example, The Anti-Monitor and Monitor were established to fundamentally work.

Not true. Nil was explicitly stated to exist outside the Multiverse, in #6 or #5(don't remember exactly).

We can't wait in perpetuity while you bump this thread multiple times a day.

You don't need to wait then, you can unfollow this thread if the alerts annoy you.

I maintain my opinion that your conclusions are based on poor reasoning. Ant does not seem to agree with them either. I strongly doubt any of the other staff members are going to see it differently, but we cannot spam the forum with bumps if they aren't willing to spend their time on it.

Again, I just asked them personally. Waiting does no harm, and we are only on the second page. It's not going to be spam for a long time

 

[Transcending]

Yes, I think that this thread is a pointless waste of time and that it should be closed very soon.

The majority doesn't. Locking a thread in such a situation, based on two people disagreeing, and just one staff input, isn't going to do any good.

 

[Deagonx]

Not true. Nil was explicitly stated to exist outside the Multiverse, in #6 or #5(don't remember exactly).

He's not referring to its location, but the way it was treated in the story.

The majority doesn't. Locking a thread in such a situation, based on two people disagreeing, and just one staff input, isn't going to do any good

You and your friends liking threads doesn't equate to a consensus. We can wait a bit longer to see if any of the staff are interested in assessing this, but as I've said the odds of them seeing things extremely differently from me and Ant is not high.

 

[Antvasima]

Outside the multiverse is not remotely the same as completely conceptually transcending it an infinite degrees of infinity number of times.

Anyway, I have many other tasks to do, so I simply don't have the time to argue with you further here, and I have firmly rejected this intended revision, so it will not be applied no matter what you do. You will just have to learn to accept that.

 

[Transcending]

He's not referring to its location, but the way it was treated in the story.

He mentioned the third dimension, but even he referred to how it's treated in the story, I will need him to elaborate on it.

You and your friends liking threads doesn't equate to a consensus.

How exactly does the majority agreeing with something not equate to a consensus? Plus what's your basis for them being my friends?

We can wait a bit longer to see if any of the staff are interested in assessing this, but as I've said the odds of them seeing things extremely differently from me and Ant is not high.

Worth a shot

 

[Transcending]

Outside the multiverse is not remotely the same as completely conceptually transcending it an infinite degrees of infinity number of times.

Never said it is, I was responded to how you said it was treated as just another universe in the third dimension.

Anyway, I have many other tasks to do, so I simply don't have the time to argue with you further here, and I have firmly rejected this intended revision, so it will not be applied no matter what you do. You will just have to learn to accept that.

Again, I ask, why would one person disagreeing equate to the entire thread getting rejected? That's inconsistent and bias.

 

[Transcending]

If you guys don't want to argue with me, don't argue. I have already accepted both of you guys' disagreement, and I can't do anything more. You guys arguing with me won't change it above 2 disagreements. I am not even trying to argue here, just wait for more input, which you guys have a problem with for some reason.

 

[Antvasima]

That is how our system fundamentally functions. Bureaucrats, administrators, and thread moderators members evaluate whether or not revision threads are acceptable to apply, not regular members, and I am the longest serving bureaucrat here.

 

[Transcending]

That is how our system fundamentally functions. Bureaucrats, administrators, and thread moderators members evaluate whether or not revision threads are acceptable to apply, not regular members, and I am the longest serving bureaucrat here.

I never declined it, my point is that a single staff disagreement should be nowhere near enough to lock a thread. It would obviously be bias as everything would be depending on a single person, and it would be inconsistent as other threads have lasted with more staff disagreements.

 

[Antvasima]

If the only participant among our staff is one of the highest ranked staff members here, then yes, it very much is sufficient.

 

[Transcending]

If the only participant among our staff is one of the highest ranked staff members here, then yes, it very much is sufficient.

Being the only participant in a thread at one point in time≠Being the only participant in the future. As I said, I just asked them to respond. Obviously every thread starts with an input from a single staff member, then it gets input from other staff members and so on.

 

[Antvasima]

Nobody else is evidently going to come. All you accomplish with this thread is to fanatically waste several hours of other people's time that they need to spend on considerably more important issues.

I will close this thread now. You will unfortunately have to learn to live with that.