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UPGRADE ATTACK POTENCY 4A (GENSHIN IMPACT)

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Mate, your scan itself doesn't say anything about moving stars so I don't really know why you're so fixated on it.

We are talking about creation of the realm which requires a reasonable short timeframe which than needs to be proved they can output the same amount of energy into their normal attacks.

You have yet to provide a timeframe and keep babbling about moving stars when it doesn't say anything about it. And of course she has dominion of it, she created it right? Doesn't mean anything if she doesn't use the realm's energy output to attack.
 
Weaver261 said:
I will not press furthur with appearance anymore. But i gave scans of how adepti creates private spaces called abodes. "These abodes" is also referring to teapot realm created by subspace creation. Realm of clouds in cn text "云海洞天" with 洞天 meaning paradise here. I also gave a scan of how adepti creates cosmic paradise using subspace creation. This scan also use the same paradise chinese text "洞天". Isn't this enough to say Adepti create realms using subspace creation? OP's assumptions are enough to give solid 4-A but these are not enough? I am not following this logic at all.
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The term 洞天 means a place residing a deity, which is alternatively deemed as a land of beautiful scenery. The term itself is rather vast. Adepti creates abodes, yeah, but where's the logic that all of it traces back to subspace creation? Also, you linked the description of the Mist Veiled Mercury Elixir the official CN name is 雾海云间的汞丹 which doesn't contain the term "洞天".
Shey said:
I don't know how this may come off looking like but I have to say you picked the most dubious examples to represent UES

Foul Legacy isn't an Elemental Transformation, it's an Abyssal Transformation taught to him by Skirk when he was in the Abyss, it is NOT from Electro Energy, he has an actual transformation from his Electro Powers which is his Delusion state.

Her Crimson Witch state is her Base State, her normal look is caused by her Cryo Delusion suppressing her Crimson Witch Flames from Raging as her Blood became Liquid Fire.

We don't even get to see the Shogun's "Base Speed" cause when she's not zipping around with her Lightning speed she's literally walking
And the biggest issue with even introducing the Elemental Energy UES thing in this thread is that the feats performed listed in the OP were not performed with this UES but by other means
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Elemental Power is the fundamental building block of reality. I think you're misinterpreting that Elemental Power is only exclusive to the 7 known elements of Teyvat, but it isn't exactly the case. Tartaglia was shown to need to charge up his energy from both his hydro and electro vision to access the transformation, hence he is channelling energy to amplify his stats, doesn't matter if it is from the Abyss and taught by Skirk or not, as it long as he can channel it through his body. Signora's cryo delusion suppresses her powers, therefore she has to amplify her own energy to break out of the limitation; it's her true power, but doesn't exactly rebuke anything since she has to channel that energy to get it. Raiden is blatantly shown to be swift through using her electro powers, without it she can't be faster than our eyes, it's really quite obvious.

Elemental Power includes magic wielded by mages, as shown by Mona who harnesses her hydro powers by using magic; Mona was instructed by Barbeloth who is an astrologist of the Hexenzirkel. And not to mention the Catalyst itself is a weapon used through magic and spells, harnessing magic to cast elemental power. I don't think I need to explain why Catalysts are activated through magic. Overall, magic is part of the elemental power UES; perhaps I should rename the system to something else like "Primitive Energy“ rather than "Elemental Power" to not make it so misleading to clueless Genshin fans.
Aernasilver said:
Still haven't provided the proof of the timeframe... and the proof they can output the same amount of energy into their normal attacks as the realm's creation.

Lastly, the creation of the object(s) in question needs to happen within a reasonably short timeframe for the whole result to apply to the Attack Potency.
Click to expand...
It's been said that those realm-creation feats took place by casting spells using a quill pen. Witches of Hexenzirkel are advanced and powerful mages, I don't think it be appealing to argue that they take thousands of years or millions of seconds to cast spells. It should give you a hint of a reasonable timeframe with this information given, by the least.
Aernasilver said:
"Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes."
Click to expand...
Information that the same pool of energy used is a Universal Energy System; magic and elemental energy are all part of the same pool of energy.
 
Aernasilver said:
Cool. You provided the method of creating it, but not the timeframe. Being powerful doesn't mean you can't take time to create stuff.
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even though I explained it in my OP, you just have to read it, even M was surprised when it all became real. which means it happened quickly
 
Aernasilver said:
Cool. You provided the method of creating it, but not the timeframe. Being powerful doesn't mean you can't take time to create stuff.
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More like their professionals so they're efficient in what they do.
 
I mean I don't know see how making a frog talk equates to being able to instantly create a realm which required 2 other people to make.
 
Yeah but she also says this:

"Yep, that's right! But although it's the most impressive-sounding of the three, to be honest, we all made an equal contribution toward the founding the world"

So she needed the other 2 to help make the realm. So this doesn't help with being able to create the realm quickly if she needed the other 2.
 
Aernasilver said:
Yeah but she also says this:

"Yep, that's right! But although it's the most impressive-sounding of the three, to be honest, we all made an equal contribution toward the founding the world"

So she needed the other 2 to help make the realm. So this doesn't help with being able to create the realm quickly if she needed the other 2.
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barbeloth only helped create the fate system, not created the world. That's why Alice is called the goddess of creation while Barbeloth is called the goddess of prophecy
 
Aernasilver said:
Mate, your scan itself doesn't say anything about moving stars so I don't really know why you're so fixated on it.
Click to expand...
Aernasilver said:
You have yet to provide a timeframe and keep babbling about moving stars when it doesn't say anything about it. And of course she has dominion of it, she created it right? Doesn't mean anything if she doesn't use the realm's energy output to attack.
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Have dominion over it
Induced sky and earth to spin
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Yet it's not talking about moving it? Okay of course she not moving it but the entire sky and earth ITSELF which include whatever inside it. Come on man, the very context "sky/heaven and earth" is always talking about the entire universe or realm in east asia literature, this literally chinese fiction.

Create something doesn't necessary you have dominion over it, but in this case they have it.
Aernasilver said:
Yeah but she also says this:

"Yep, that's right! But although it's the most impressive-sounding of the three, to be honest, we all made an equal contribution toward the founding the world"

So she needed the other 2 to help make the realm. So this doesn't help with being able to create the realm quickly if she needed the other 2.
Click to expand...
Yeah for sure you totally lack of context to know what actually happen about it, it's talking about two realm.
Simulanka created by three goddess
But only one who create it, the other ones just set story and treasure over the simulanka. Only one who create it.

The second realm talking about imaginarium theater, which fully made by barbeloth alone.
 
Shey said:
Personal I don't have a problem with Hypersonic Raiden personally, we quite literally have seen Lightning Move Comparatively MUCH FASTER than her with her Ultimate Sword technique, literally just watch the Kazuha Raiden Cutscene.
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There's also the possibility of Kazuha's Electro being faster than baseline lightning speed, which would be supported by Kazuha and Raiden both being blitz levels above AR30 Traveler who, like I said earlier, can dodge CTG lightning in-game. That very feat by Kazuha was calc'd to Sub-Rel before, aswell as Raiden having instant-win statements against any human, including those who use lightning attacks (and if we really wanna push it, Keqing who says "speed of light" when she does hers aswell).

We also have confirmation of literally all the elements going beyond their baseline parameters aswell in both speed and AP, like we don't treat Anemo as wind-speed cuz it uses wind, we don't treat Hydro as going at water flow speeds, or Cryo as the baseline speed it takes to freeze a tsunami's water warmth to zero degrees, so why should we treat all Electro attacks as them all going at lightning speed? That would literally lead to inconsistencies in narrative (example; Traveler getting blitzed by Raiden (or her attack speed) and then him/her keeping up with her in their second fight)
 
didnt furina say to me that they created these realms by drawing on some book and happened instantly?
 
Anyways, can we close this and apply the scaling? We have the grace period fulfilled, enough admin approvals and the counter-arguments are all the same which were adressed in the OP and by the supporters of the CRT, it's going circular atp
 
Yeah, close thread. It's 5 AM and I'm going to pass out any time soon. Haven't slept in 21 hours.
 
I hope any here can correct the mistakes I made if I have any; I'm not in the best state of mind right now and can overlook some details. Any fixing will be appreciated. I'll update the descriptions to make it look more appealing tomorrow.
 
GarrixianXD said:
I hope any here can correct the mistakes I made if I have any; I'm not in the best state of mind right now and can overlook some details. Any fixing will be appreciated. I'll update the descriptions to make it look more appealing tomorrow.
Click to expand...
It'd be easier for me to help in DMs or on Discord where I'm more active, I can send you mine in dms here. Furina can also help out here
 
Saqphire said:
There's also the possibility of Kazuha's Electro being faster than baseline lightning speed, which would be supported by Kazuha and Raiden both being blitz levels above AR30 Traveler who, like I said earlier, can dodge CTG lightning in-game. That very feat by Kazuha was calc'd to Sub-Rel before, aswell as Raiden having instant-win statements against any human, including those who use lightning attacks (and if we really wanna push it, Keqing who says "speed of light" when she does hers aswell).

We also have confirmation of literally all the elements going beyond their baseline parameters aswell in both speed and AP, like we don't treat Anemo as wind-speed cuz it uses wind, we don't treat Hydro as going at water flow speeds, or Cryo as the baseline speed it takes to freeze a tsunami's water warmth to zero degrees, so why should we treat all Electro attacks as them all going at lightning speed? That would literally lead to inconsistencies in narrative (example; Traveler getting blitzed by Raiden (or her attack speed) and then him/her keeping up with her in their second fight)
Click to expand...
Both Raiden's Electro and Kazuha's Electro were moving blitz levels faster than them. They are visually far slower than Lightning
Gameplay feats are invalid
1. There's no evidence they can replicate said feat out of it
2. The dash animation has a lot of invincibility frames so most dodges aren't even actual dodges
3. Evading CTG lightning doesn't require MHS+ either


If you can't take CTG electro as having the speed of lightning or having any concrete speed at all where then does the speed scaling begin to start in that case? Because to scale them to MHS+ using said electro there needs to be a basis and if you're claiming this basis isn't even Lightning speed. Then what, all lightning feats(there are none) become unknown
 
GarrixianXD said:
Adepti creates abodes, yeah, but where's the logic that all of it traces back to subspace creation? Also, you linked the description of the Mist Veiled Mercury Elixir the official CN name is 雾海云间的汞丹 which doesn't contain the term "洞天".
Click to expand...
I already gave enough scans to deduce that. Adepti create their private space abodes just like teapot which use subspace creation and use realm dispatch into invite people into their realm which is the same as teapot subspace creation and tubby is referring to the same thing. Read this whole idle talk and tell me teapot subspace creation is not the same as adepti private space abodes. I showed how realm of clouds is actually called "Sea of cloud paradise" in CN text which in the material description stated how adepti make cosmic paradise with subspace creation. They both used the same words. This should be enough?? Any other mods who are reading this can check this too....I still strongly disagree with giving archons 4-A whether solid or likely but I am not a mod so....what can I say if you all are done with this thread and close it
 
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I just renember something
The mage that created the Imaginarium Threater was never stated to be a Hexen.idk mage, so it cant be scaled to Venti
 
Shey said:
Both Raiden's Electro and Kazuha's Electro were moving blitz levels faster than them. They are visually far slower than Lightning
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Yes I know Raiden/Electro Kazuha were blitz levels faster than AR30 Traveler, I literally said this and Traveler being "visibly slower than (average lightning speed)" is a claim, not an argument. This claim has zero basis as we know Traveler when using Electro/lightning gets blitzed by Raiden. This means Raiden is faster bruh
Shey said:
Gameplay feats are invalid
1. There's no evidence they can replicate said feat out of it
2. The dash animation has a lot of invincibility frames so most dodges aren't even actual dodges
3. Evading CTG lightning doesn't require MHS+ either
Click to expand...
1. AR30 Traveler scales to and above people in narrative that use lightning and thunder, a very good example is him/her scaling above Lisa, a human who uses thunder, in lore by the time they get to Inazuma, via him/her scaling to a casual Raiden who has statements saying she can instantly end a fight against humans, which she literally did against Traveler who isn't even human. Instant-ending fight statement is implicant that it's a blitz level statement against humans like Lisa, Razor and Keqing, aswell as others. This axiomatically proves Traveler would be >lightning speed, which makes the in-game mechanic consistent with lore and narrative

2. Irrelevant??? It's the action itself that's calced, them having "invincibility frames" has no bearing to the distance traversed, unless you're trying to say Traveler can dodge lightning after it hits them cause of these frames? If so then it gets refuted by literally playing the game lol you can dodge lightning without it hitting you or trigger your invincibility frames

3. Depends on the distance between the bolt and the dodger, there was a calc here of Jean doing it in-game that got to over Mach 4000 (the feat was linked previously), which would scale to everyone playable in the verse.

These arguments wouldn't be sufficient to discard my initial stance about it
Shey said:
If you can't take CTG electro as having the speed of lightning or having any concrete speed at all where then does the speed scaling begin to start in that case? Because to scale them to MHS+ using said electro there needs to be a basis and if you're claiming this basis isn't even Lightning speed. Then what, all lightning feats(there are none) become unknown
Click to expand...
Did you read like half of my argument? I said:

  • A and B uses Electro for their attacks
  • Electro is proven to be real lightning via several factors, we have accepted scaling of this, see Lisa's page for example
  • So it makes sense to apply lightning speed to the average Electro thanks to our guidelines for it
  • B blitzes A with her own Electro
  • Therefore B's Electro would most likely be faster than A's Electro which would be baseline lightning speed
  • C uses his own electro and almost catches B off-guard when using her full power slash (which should be (and is) even faster than the one that blitzed A, since A was able to become faster after their first fight)
  • Therefore B and C's electro should be faster than A's aka lightning speed, and I give examples of´Shenhe using Cryo to freeze a tsunami faster than the average time of ice freezing water, deductively proving that elements can go faster than the baseline speed based off reality. This reasoning was accepted prior, hence the previous sub-rel scaling for the verse
  • And thus, I never said Electro can't have a baseline speed to go off of, I said it can be developed to be faster than it

Simple indicative and deductive reasoning, your argument is basically saying a bodybuilder/trackstar and an average office worker would have the same physical strength or running speed cuz they're both humans, and this reasoning is braindead
 
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Oh and btw if you wanna continue our debate on speed, I suggest we do it here and let admins close this thread as the scaling has been applied now
 
You guys might want to rephrase the changed profiles' justification, preferably by someone with a decent grasp of the English language. Also make sure to make it so that the main point of the scaling (to 4-A) is reflected in the justification. As everything written there are tier 6 feats.

I still disagree with pretty much everything on here. The justification seems just too flimsy, and the scaling is way too vague. There not a single feat on that level, and there's no solid proof it even scales to normal statistics.

But since this thread has been open for too long, just close it for now.
 
Puppet43 said:
I just renember something
The mage that created the Imaginarium Threater was never stated to be a Hexen.idk mage, so it cant be scaled to Venti
Click to expand...
Then who else that Mage?
no other group of witches besides Hexenzirkel could do that.
in fact, there is no other group of witches besides Hexenzirkel
 
Sahlwrld said:
Then who else that Mage?
no other group of witches besides Hexenzirkel could do that.
in fact, there is no other group of witches besides Hexenzirkel
Click to expand...
I meant to say that this scaling is base on the assumption that Madame Mage (Creathor of the Imaginarium Threath) is a mage of the Hexenzirkel, but theres 0 proof
 
Revisions have been properly applied now. @Agnaa mind doing the honours of closing this?
 
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