UPGRADE ATTACK POTENCY 4A (GENSHIN IMPACT)

[Lloydblitzed]

Ah fair enough, but afaik 3 admins should be enough for most verses, excluding small verses that need 1 and big verses that need 6 like Dragon Ball

2 is enough for Genshin, 1 for minor CRTs

 

[GarrixianXD]

Here it's said the clouds are not real. They are just product of adepti art used for spatial partitioning. With that context, the sun could also be not real.

Edited - One of the realm layout in Teapot is describe as such "being inside teapot and all, the highest mountain probably reaches no higher than the stalk of a tea leaf"
Madam Ping who is an adepti stated that creating realm inside teapot nothing amazing. But the real exercise of power is like Rex Lapis(Geo archon) moving mountain and sea. Combining these two statements with clouds not being real, subspace creation is probably on smaller scale. That's why I think 4-A for subspace creation is not good.
Ei's Plane of Euthymia is also inside her sword and her inner mind world which functions the same as realm made up of imagination inside teapot.

Shenhe's asserted that the clouds were used for spatial partitioning, that is to separate the spaces of the Sea Gazer's Abode, which is why we see the Traveler and Shenhe able to walk on the clouds like a solid rocky ground. Shenhe was rather implying the clouds are a horizontal spatial barrier that acts as a physical surface, rather than a fake/imaginary phenomenon. The same logic couldn't be applied to the Sun in that case.

No one said anything about 4-A subspace creation. Guizhong's Realm of Clouds nor any other adeptal realms have anything to do with the teapot or sub-space creation. Sub-space Creation, the Serenitea Pot being inferior compared to Morax moving seas and mountains has no given context to do with any other Adeptal Realms shown in the series. Especially it's been stated that the Serenitea Pot is minimised in-size, only can be accessed through a teapot contrasted to other adeptal realms in Story Quests, where we access it through domain gates instead. It implies that the other Adeptal Realms are significantly bigger than the Serenitea Pot, and there hasn't been any assertions seen or shown that sub-space creation is involved in all realm creation. Subspace creation isn't 4-A, the Serenitea Pot/Subspace Creation has nothing to do with the relevant topic of this CRT at all in the end. You're actually right about Ei's Plane of Euthymia, I overlooked that, thanks for pointing it out, though it doesn't exactly function the same as sub-space creation but that detail is irrelevant to the main topic.

Four admins including Garrixian agreeing to this, so how do we apply the scaling? The 48 hour grace had already went up by the time Elizhaa agreed

Ah fair enough, but afaik 3 admins should be enough for most verses, excluding small verses that need 1 and big verses that need 6 like Dragon Ball

This can indeed be applied, I'll handle the application tonight.

 

[Saqphire]

This can indeed be applied, I'll handle the application tonight.

Nice, so you'd close the thread afterwards right? Or are you gonna be waiting for Weaver to refute your argument before closing the thread?

 

[GarrixianXD]

Honestly, after reviewing the scaling chain of characters, I'd think it's better to put a likely 4-A rating along the 6-B tier instead of completely replacing it, considering there were no direct statements of combat between Barbatos and the Hexenzirkel.

@Furina003 @Saqphire Hope y'all are fine with this before I apply the changes.

 

[Weaver261]

No one said anything about 4-A subspace creation. Guizhong's Realm of Clouds nor any other adeptal realms have anything to do with the teapot or sub-space creation.

I can agree with clouds not being real has nothing to do here. But subspace creation is how adepti make their realms. I'm the real within quest, traveler touched the teapot of madam ping and teleported into a domain which is her abode. Madam ping said it's a blessing from rex lapis. So yeah, teapot realms are the same as adepti realms. And they are miniatures.

Edited - here it's stated venti visited another adepti abode recently that's why madam ping prepared this mansion which is a house inside teapot

Madame Ping had arranged for her to prepare this particular villa after hearing that a certain bard had visited another adeptus's abode recently

 

[Saqphire]

Honestly, after reviewing the scaling chain of characters, I'd think it's better to put a likely 4-A rating along the 6-B tier instead of completely replacing it, considering there were no direct statements of combat between Barbatos and the Hexenzirkel.

@Furina003 @Saqphire Hope y'all are fine with this before I apply the changes.

Eh I guess, but what about the argument that Diluc is comparing Alice to Barbatos when it comes to ruling Golden Apple Island? Wouldn't that imply that Alice would have to be as strong or similar in strength as Barbatos to be able to rule said island, upscaling her to him (and thus have him and those scaling to him at the mage's new tier)?

 

[GarrixianXD]

I can agree with clouds not being real has nothing to do here. But subspace creation is how adepti make their realms. I'm the real within quest, traveler touched the teapot of madam ping and teleported into a domain which is her abode. Madam ping said it's a blessing from rex lapis. So yeah, teapot realms are the same as adepti realms. And they are miniatures.

Subspace Creation was specifically used for the creation of the Serenitea Pot. It wasn't said to have applied or a method of creation for any other adeptal realms, especially the ones accessed through domain gates such as The Realm of Clouds and Sea Gazer's Abode.

Just because one object of a concept is created by a certain technique, doesn't mean all objects are created from that particular technique. You'll have to prove it otherwise.

Eh I guess, but what about the argument that Diluc is comparing Alice to Barbatos when it comes to ruling Golden Apple Island? Wouldn't that imply that Alice would have to be as strong or similar in strength as Barbatos to be able to rule said island, upscaling her to him (and thus have him and those scaling to him at the mage's new tier)?

Which is why a likely rating is mostly appropriate here. Alice will have a solid 4-A rating (sadly she doesn't have a profile on here), though, as far as I saw there hasn't been an official comparison of Alice's powers to the archons. The archons would also have a solid 4-A rating if they were said to have powers directly comparable or superior to Alice's, though, we kinda lack that and Diluc's statement doesn't exactly make up that discontinuity.

Anyway, I'd like to wait for Furina's reply here before doing anything further.

 

[Saqphire]

Which is why a likely rating is mostly appropriate here. Alice will have a solid 4-A rating (sadly she doesn't have a profile on here), though, as far as I saw there hasn't been an official comparison of Alice's powers to the archons. The archons would also have a solid 4-A rating if they were said to have powers directly comparable or superior to Alice's, though, we kinda lack that and Diluc's statement doesn't exactly make up that discontinuity.

Anyway, I'd like to wait for Furina's reply here before doing anything further.

Fair enough then, until hoyoverse adds more solid comparisons between these mages and the archons, I'll be fine with "likely" 4-A for now

 

[Woomica]

Daamn a lot happened...
okay i got what i asked for so there is no reason to disagree anymore
as for scaling ig i can suggest
Sovereigns>Witches>Archons>Top 3 fatui>Regular gods> so yeah you can beat each other over who scales to 4-A direcrly and who has "likely" or "possibly"

 

[Weaver261]

Subspace Creation was specifically used for the creation of the Serenitea Pot. It wasn't said to have applied or a method of creation for any other adeptal realms, especially the ones accessed through domain gates such as The Realm of Clouds and Sea Gazer's Abode.

Subspace creation is used in teapot and realms created by adepti. As stated here in teapot by teapot spirit, these abodes are private spaces of adepti. One material described teapot as cosmic paradise. Realm of clouds is also called sea of cloud paradise in original Chinese text. Madam ping's teapot realm's appearance and realms of cloud's domain stages are similar. Floating abode in teapot layout is also similar to realm of clouds.

 

[Voidnether]

I generally don't have a problem with the scaling if it's likely 4-A for the archons and other god tiers.. Woomica is planning to downgrade 7-A vision holders though so there's that..
I mean again, as long as vision holders don't scale to this cause as far as I know that's the main problem

 

[Furina003]

Subspace Creation was specifically used for the creation of the Serenitea Pot. It wasn't said to have applied or a method of creation for any other adeptal realms, especially the ones accessed through domain gates such as The Realm of Clouds and Sea Gazer's Abode.

Just because one object of a concept is created by a certain technique, doesn't mean all objects are created from that particular technique. You'll have to prove it otherwise.

Which is why a likely rating is mostly appropriate here. Alice will have a solid 4-A rating (sadly she doesn't have a profile on here), though, as far as I saw there hasn't been an official comparison of Alice's powers to the archons. The archons would also have a solid 4-A rating if they were said to have powers directly comparable or superior to Alice's, though, we kinda lack that and Diluc's statement doesn't exactly make up that discontinuity.

Anyway, I'd like to wait for Furina's reply here before doing anything further.

this is the last from me, hexenzirkle are not amateur wizards, they contain powerful wizards who are very experienced, so it's impossible that they don't consider the impact if they carelessly challenge the archon to fight, so they definitely have strength that is at least equal to each other so they dared to challenge him.
alice adalah defender di old monstad, Old Modstad was the time when Monstadt was led by the storm god Decarabian, which means Alice was a level below Decarabian, Barbatos was able to fight and defeat Decarabian . If from this also Barbatos can't get a solid tier 4a, I agree with Saqphire , I'll be fine with "likely" 4-A for now. because there are already several feats that say that at least they are equal.

​

 

[Woomica]

I generally don't have a problem with the scaling if it's likely 4-A for the archons and other god tiers.. Woomica is planning to downgrade 7-A vision holders though so there's that..

only those with possibly rating, because they legit have nothing to scale to there (i was smoking shrooms when making that crt)

 

[Sahlwrld]

Daamn a lot happened...
okay i got what i asked for so there is no reason to disagree anymore
as for scaling ig i can suggest
Sovereigns>Witches>Archons>Top 3 fatui>Regular gods> so yeah you can beat each other over who scales to 4-A direcrly and who has "likely" or "possibly"

I think only some of the Witches that can comparable to the Archons, because some of them only a Humans and they already dead, even though they're having broken power such as I Ivanovna and Anya Andersdotter

The top 3 strongest witches that i see is
1. Rhinedottir
2. Alice
3. Barbeloth

I hope these 3 people got their Profile soon

 

[Voidnether]

this is the last from me, hexenzirkle are not amateur wizards, they contain powerful wizards who are very experienced, so it's impossible that they don't consider the impact if they carelessly challenge the archon to lie, so they definitely have strength that is at least equal to each other so they dared to challenge him.

Pretty sure it's not statistic wise but more of something that's ability wise and most of the time it's just a friendly barter & unserious, and even if it was.. It'll only make them 6-B.

The reason why I deduced it like that, you could see it here on the wiki as it explains Alice's story thoroughly.

Likely 4-A is only accepted cause it's UES, if there was no UES involved then creation feats like those would only scale to 4-A for Alice personally and it also wouldn't scale to her physical attack potency (striking strength) / durability.

 

[Saqphire]

this is the last from me, hexenzirkle are not amateur wizards, they contain powerful wizards who are very experienced, so it's impossible that they don't consider the impact if they carelessly challenge the archon to fight, so they definitely have strength that is at least equal to each other so they dared to challenge him.
alice adalah defender di old monstad, Old Modstad was the time when Monstadt was led by the storm god Decarabian, which means Alice was a level below Decarabian, Barbatos was able to fight and defeat Decarabian . If from this also Barbatos can't get a solid tier 4a, I agree with Saqphire , I'll be fine with "likely" 4-A for now. because there are already several feats that say that at least they are equal.

​

Yeah, from these statements and narrative implications, I'm leaning more towards a solid 4-A rating, as to be clear about my stance. However as I've said earlier, I'm fine with "likely" as a bare minimum for Barbatos and co.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Subspace creation is used in teapot and realms created by adepti. As stated here in teapot by teapot spirit, these abodes are private spaces of adepti. One material described teapot as cosmic paradise. Realm of clouds is also called sea of cloud paradise in original Chinese text. Madam ping's teapot realm's appearance and realms of cloud's domain stages are similar. Floating abode in teapot layout is also similar to realm of clouds.

Still begs the question of how the Realm of Clouds is created with Subspace Creation. Appearance wise isn't a sufficient answer.

this is the last from me, hexenzirkle are not amateur wizards, they contain powerful wizards who are very experienced, so it's impossible that they don't consider the impact if they carelessly challenge the archon to fight, so they definitely have strength that is at least equal to each other so they dared to challenge him.
alice adalah defender di old monstad, Old Modstad was the time when Monstadt was led by the storm god Decarabian, which means Alice was a level below Decarabian, Barbatos was able to fight and defeat Decarabian . If from this also Barbatos can't get a solid tier 4a, I agree with Saqphire , I'll be fine with "likely" 4-A for now. because there are already several feats that say that at least they are equal.

Should've put this onto the OP. 4-A should be solid with this information around. I'll apply this CRT now.

 

[Shey]

Eh....I haven't seen anything like that in game at all. If you are referring to what hoyolab wiki wrote, that's not valid since they are not actual scriptwriters but rather wiki editors. They might use other words.

It's literally in the First Archon Quest
Quest: Ending Note
"Venti: As you know, Visions are external magical foci that only a small minority of people possess. They use these Visions to channel elemental power."

 

[Weaver261]

this is the last from me, hexenzirkle are not amateur wizards, they contain powerful wizards who are very experienced, so it's impossible that they don't consider the impact if they carelessly challenge the archon to fight, so they definitely have strength that is at least equal to each other so they dared to challenge him.
alice adalah defender di old monstad, Old Modstad was the time when Monstadt was led by the storm god Decarabian, which means Alice was a level below Decarabian, Barbatos was able to fight and defeat Decarabian . If from this also Barbatos can't get a solid tier 4a, I agree with Saqphire , I'll be fine with "likely" 4-A for now. because there are already several feats that say that at least they are equal.

All I can see here are assumptions. Just because Alice has the title "Defender of old mondstadt", that doesn't necessarily mean she was weaker than Decarabian. That doesn't imply anything at all. More over, Alice is stated as "near omnipotent sorceress" by Albedo who is the child of Rhinedottir, one of hexenzirkirl and five sinners who possess world shattering powers from abyss.

Albedo: Klee's mother, Alice, is an extremely enigmatic and near-omnipotent sorceress. Don't be overly concerned. This is just her character

What we can assume from this title is Alice was weaker than Decarabian in like 2600 years ago but now she is powerful enough to do all sort of things while Venti became weaker and weaker due of the lack of faith. So, I think it's not appropriate to give 4-A rating both likely or solid.
These are not feats but assumptions. Giving 4-A tier jump from these assumptions alone is just absurd to me honestly.

 

[Furina003]

Still begs the question of how the Realm of Clouds is created with Subspace Creation. Appearance wise isn't a sufficient answer.

Should've put this onto the OP. 4-A should be solid with this information around. I'll apply this CRT now.

Sorry, I thought of that while typing my reply.

 

[Weaver261]

Still begs the question of how the Realm of Clouds is created with Subspace Creation. Appearance wise isn't a sufficient answer.

I will not press furthur with appearance anymore. But i gave scans of how adepti creates private spaces called abodes. "These abodes" is also referring to teapot realm created by subspace creation. Realm of clouds in cn text "云海洞天" with 洞天 meaning paradise here. I also gave a scan of how adepti creates cosmic paradise using subspace creation. This scan also use the same paradise chinese text "洞天". Isn't this enough to say Adepti create realms using subspace creation? OP's assumptions are enough to give solid 4-A but these are not enough? I am not following this logic at all.

 

[Shey]

There is something called a Universal Energy System.

Anyway, here is my new draft for Genshin's UES

Spoiler

Elemental Power

Elemental Power is the primary type of energy of Genshin Impact, which works as the franchise's Universal Energy System that connects the statistics of every character. The main common source of elemental power of Genshin is Visions that are wielded by mortal allogenes; more powerful sources are the Gnoses that Archons and other god-tier characters equivalent to them wield. It has been consistently shown throughout the game that every action scene involves allogenes battling with each other and drawing elemental power from their respective visions. A prime example is when the Traveller, Aether, fought Childe on one physically and with their elemental powers.

Allogenes in Genshin are not only shown capable of amplifying their powers and abilities using their sources of power but also capable of enhancing their physical strengths and even speed. Deduction in their potency and ability to channel elemental energy dissipates the powers and abilities of an allogene and also weakens their physical statistics such as strength, potency and speed (examples being Traveler losing the power boost of 100 visions and Kazuha losing the power of the electro vision boost).

There have been many occurrences of characters channelling elementary energy throughout their body, and using it to enhance their physical capabilities -- such instances include Childe channelling electro through his body and activating his Foul Legacy, with his new transformation stronger than his base power; Signora transforming into the Crimson Witch while channelling pyro through her physical body, amplifying her statistics beyond her base power; Raiden Shogun significantly amplifying her base speed using her lightning channelling powers; Kazuha activating his friend's electro vision, significantly boosting his strength for him to be capable of physically contending with Raiden Shogun temporarily before the vision deactivates and gets easily knocked back -- hence, shown to be physically outclassed without the vision boost, etc.

Overall, with all of this information listed, Elemental Power is most fittingly qualified as Genshin's Universal Energy System.

Spoiler

I don't know how this may come off looking like but I have to say you picked the most dubious examples to represent UES

Foul Legacy isn't an Elemental Transformation, it's an Abyssal Transformation taught to him by Skirk when he was in the Abyss, it is NOT from Electro Energy, he has an actual transformation from his Electro Powers which is his Delusion state.

Her Crimson Witch state is her Base State, her normal look is caused by her Cryo Delusion suppressing her Crimson Witch Flames from Raging as her Blood became Liquid Fire.

We don't even get to see the Shogun's "Base Speed" cause when she's not zipping around with her Lightning speed she's literally walking

And the biggest issue with even introducing the Elemental Energy UES thing in this thread is that the feats performed listed in the OP were not performed with this UES but by other means

 

[Aernasilver]

Still haven't provided the proof of the timeframe... and the proof they can output the same amount of energy into their normal attacks as the realm's creation.

Lastly, the creation of the object(s) in question needs to happen within a reasonably short timeframe for the whole result to apply to the Attack Potency.

"Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes."

 

[Voidnether]

Might be the first time we're getting a hypersonic 4-A (the speed rating sucks so bad ong)

 

[Giannysmag]

Might be the first time we're getting a hypersonic 4-A (the speed rating sucks so bad ong)

Which is why we must keep them away from Tier 4

 

[Sahlwrld]

Might be the first time we're getting a hypersonic 4-A (the speed rating sucks so bad ong)

R.I.P speed

 

[Saqphire]

Might be the first time we're getting a hypersonic 4-A (the speed rating sucks so bad ong)

There's an ongoing CRT for the verse about that speed rating to get the verse to at the very least MHS+ again, Hypersonic Raiden and other thunder users is an atrocious sight to see

 

[Shey]

That's for CTG Attack Speed no?, which she already had before, why was it removed?

 

[Voidnether]

There's an ongoing CRT for the verse about that speed rating to get the verse to at the very least MHS+ again, Hypersonic Raiden and other thunder users is an atrocious sight to see

Least controversial CRT.
Ngl, the profiles for genshin should be reworked tho

 

[Saqphire]

That's for CTG Attack Speed no?, which she already had before, why was it removed?

Apparently "we don't know if Electro users use lightning so we'll nerf all electro spells and users to electricity speed" when there are tons of statements for most of them saying they use lightning/thunder, us being able to dodge CTG lightning in-game and Raiden being narratively portrayed as a Lightning God à la Kashimo

 

[Voidnether]

That's for CTG Attack Speed no?, which she already had before, why was it removed?

Because it was all MHS+ and Aernasilver reverted it to Hypersonic, you could add MHS+ Attack Speed though for like Raiden & Neuvillette since they were both accepted & straightforward additions that don't require CRT

 

[Le'garde273]

Still haven't provided the proof of the timeframe... and the proof they can output the same amount of energy into their normal attacks as the realm's creation.

Lastly, the creation of the object(s) in question needs to happen within a reasonably short timeframe for the whole result to apply to the Attack Potency.

"Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes."

Please tell me why this adeptus thing have a thing to do with op?

Still haven't provided the proof of the timeframe... and the proof they can output the same amount of energy into their normal attacks as the realm's creation.

Lastly, the creation of the object(s) in question needs to happen within a reasonably short timeframe for the whole result to apply to the Attack Potency.

"Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes."

Aside just mere create it, they're strong enough to give same output in similar fashion

The main reason why it's should be scale to their stat at first is. The witches or "the goddess" which in this case was barbeloth the one who created the entire realm is, have full the authority over the realm. She is strong enough at the point she have dominion over the starry sky and able to spin the entire sky and earth itself.

 

[Le'garde273]

There's an ongoing CRT for the verse about that speed rating to get the verse to at the very least MHS+ again, Hypersonic Raiden and other thunder users is an atrocious sight to see

Outversal rating with ftl speed are not even better than tier 4 with hypersonic speed

 

[Saqphire]

Because it was all MHS+ and Aernasilver reverted it to Hypersonic, you could add MHS+ Attack Speed though for like Raiden & Neuvillette since they were both accepted & straightforward additions that don't require CRT

Seeing the verse at that speed rating because of a travel speed feat is beyond me, it's like me debunking Boo Saga Goku's overall speed to hypersonic+ cuz his flight speed is that

 

[Aernasilver]

Spinning the sky and moving the earth is hardly close to 4-A energy output.

Still waiting on the timeframe though. Unless its created in a reasonable short amount of time, this won't scale.

 

[Shey]

Apparently "we don't know if Electro users use lightning so we'll nerf all electro spells and users to electricity speed" when there are tons of statements for most of them saying they use lightning/thunder, us being able to dodge CTG lightning in-game and Raiden being narratively portrayed as a Lightning God à la Kashimo

Personal I don't have a problem with Hypersonic Raiden personally, we quite literally have seen Lightning Move Comparatively MUCH FASTER than her with her Ultimate Sword technique, literally just watch the Kazuha Raiden Cutscene.

Because it was all MHS+ and Aernasilver reverted it to Hypersonic, you could add MHS+ Attack Speed though for like Raiden & Neuvillette since they were both accepted & straightforward additions that don't require CRT

No, I vividly remember there was an iteration of her profile that was "Hypersonic, MHS+ Attack Speed" not just flat MHS+, I don't see why Neuvillette would scale to her MHS+ either

 

[Le'garde273]

Spinning the sky and earth is hardly close to 4-A energy output.

Still waiting on the timeframe though. Unless its created in a reasonable short amount of time, this won't scale.

Brooo.... Held authority over realm and able to spin the entire stars inside it even better reasoning for 4-A rather than creation feats, this even cover up timeframe issue. You literally have energy to give effort to move the entire stars, plus it's directly state have dominion over the stars

 

[Giannysmag]

Personal I don't have a problem with Hypersonic Raiden personally, we quite literally have seen Lightning Move Comparatively MUCH FASTER than her with her Ultimate Sword technique, literally just watch the Kazuha Raiden Cutscene.

Literally this, being a lightning user doesn't instantly scale your physical speed to MHS+. But she did used to have a MHS+ attack speed rating

I don't see why Neuvillette would scale to her MHS+ either

Neuv had his own MHS+ calc

 

[Aernasilver]

Doesn't say spin the stars.

And how on earth is spinning stars better than creating the realm wtf? Also no it doesn't cover up any timeframe.

 

[Le'garde273]

Doesn't say spin the stars.

And how on earth is spinning stars better than creating the realm wtf? Also no it doesn't cover up any timeframe.

Direct from celestial body feats pages

If one planet or multiple planets or stars are moved the equivalent Attack Potency is the sum of their GBE.

It's not even just mere talking about spinning it, it's literally talking about you have authority over it. How you able to move the entire stars and even the realm itself didn't grant you the same tier of output energy? If you didn't even have the same output how even you move it at first place?