BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Tsubasa16]

Depends on how you interpret “full potential” if you apply it to just his Fullbring powers yeah, but if you take it as a broader statement then it’s potentially on par if not stronger.

Because 5th Anni Ichigo still has all his Shinigami/Hollow and Quincy powers due to Rukia’s statement. So 5th Anni Ichigo might be just like New Years Version + Fullbring.

Iirc the "Full Potential" thing only refers specifically to his Fullbring powers i think? but i would have to check the story again to be sure. Edit: It seems the "full potential" thing is just Hollow Ichigo saying Ichigo didn't even reach his full potential yet, which could be a reference to True Shikai/True Bankai.

Also i think New Year Ichigo does technically include Fullbring as well tho as part of his design also includes his Fullbring-Enchanced Bankai design? plus "all of his latent powers" should in theory include his Fullbring.

Going by the statement of 5th Anni Ichigo's profile and the short story about the form, like the fact Hollow Ichigo is the only one in the story to be the one giving Ichigo the 5th Anni form's power, it seems like while he does still has his Quincy powers, he is not actually using them and is only using the Shinigami/Hollow + Fullbring in the 5th Anni Form. (Kisuke also describes it as Ichigo being "In his Soul Reaper form but clad in his Fullbring")

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It seems the "full potential" thing is just Hollow Ichigo saying Ichigo didn't even reach his full potential yet, which could be a reference to True Shikai/True Bankai.

I’ve heard the interpretation that 5th Anni Ichigo is like a more natural way of reaching his TS/TB state.

Going by the statement of 5th Anni Ichigo's profile and the short story about the form, like the fact Hollow Ichigo is the only one in the story to be the one giving Ichigo the 5th Anni form's power, it seems like while he does still has his Quincy powers, he is not actually using them and is only using the Shinigami/Hollow + Fullbring in the 5th Anni Form. (Kisuke also describes it as Ichigo being "In his Soul Reaper form but clad in his Fullbring")

I mean the only form of Ichigo that is visually indicative of him using Quincy powers is his New Years form. Ichigo’s Quincy and Hollow powers have always been integrated into his Shinigami powers, in the TYBW they both reside in his Zanpakuto.

(I do agree that New Years 2019 is more easily and definitely >= TYBW Ichigo)

 

[Tsubasa16]

I’ve heard the interpretation that 5th Anni Ichigo is like a more natural way of reaching his TS/TB state.

I wouldn't be so sure of that theory seeing as his True Shikai/True Bankai don't seem to involve his Fullbring powers at all?

I mean the only form of Ichigo that is visually indicative of him using Quincy powers is his New Years form. Ichigo’s Quincy and Hollow powers have always been integrated into his Shinigami powers, in the TYBW they both reside in his Zanpakuto.

(I do agree that New Years 2019 is more easily and definitely >= TYBW Ichigo)

Yeah but in the case of when Ichigo is actually using both Hollow/Soul Reaper and Quincy powers in tantum, we are actually shown both Hollow Ichigo and "Zangetsu" being represented as giving him the power, like Final Getsuga with Merged Zangetsu and True Shikai Ichigo with his Dual Swords represeinting both of them. In the case of 5th Anni Ichigo, Hollow Ichigo is the only one shown giving him the power, which means that at the very least if he does have Quincy powers in this form, it's not a significant amount like with most of his Pre-TYBW canon forms where most of his powers are his Hollow/Shinigami being siphoned by Quincy Zangetsu and given to him third-hand instead of directly.

If i were to guess a scaling, i think would be something like: TOS True Bankai => New Ichigo Ichigo > True Bankai > TOS True Shikai > True Shikai => Final Getsuga > 5th Anni Ichigo

 

[Axxtentacle]

All abilities mastered being used together is 100% >>> some abilities being used in a way he even admits he's not that good at

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I wouldn't be so sure of that theory seeing as his True Shikai/True Bankai don't seem to involve his Fullbring powers at all?

Naw CFYOW confirms Ichigo still has Fullbring powers.

TOS True Bankai => New Ichigo Ichigo > True Bankai > TOS True Shikai > True Shikai => Final Getsuga > 5th Anni Ichigo

I’d tier it like this: New Years Version ~ Ichidad (Zangetsu Within) ~ (5th Anni) > TB HoS > TB > TS HoS > TS = Mugetsu ~ (5th Annie) > Dangai

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The Brave Soul forms are all non canon guys... They have no stake in the actual manga, the Bankai that got one-shot by Ywhach is sadly the peak form that Ichigo has to our knowledge, that is unless the "True Zangetsu" Form is something different and even stronger

All these anniversary forms are just Kubo having fun designing cool forms for Ichigo, I honestly hate how Kubo did Ichigo and his powers in the Thousand Year Blood War, he never once got to go all out, I swear to god, the anime better fix that shit or I will be pissed as all hell, Ichigo's Bankai being one shot and Ywhach being revealed to have Fate Manipulation single handily ruined the entire Thousand Year Blood War

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I mean they obviously have no stake in the actual manga but we can still scale them.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yeah, a BBS profile could honestly be fun, and likely >> TYBW Ichigo

 

[Tsubasa16]

Naw CFYOW confirms Ichigo still has Fullbring powers.

He does yeah but i mean in the sense that his Fullbring powers are something separate from his True Zankaptou powers, since they are not inherently part of his True Shikai/Bankai as far as we are aware of? Seem more like he could use it on top of his True Shika/Bankai instead of being part of it, if anything.

I’d tier it like this: New Years Version ~ Ichidad (Zangetsu Within) ~ (5th Anni) > TB HoS > TB > TS HoS > TS = Mugetsu ~ (5th Annie) > Dangai

I think 5th Anni would consistently scale below Mugetsu since Hollow Ichigo in the BBS story says Ichigo has not reached his full potential yet even after activating the 5th Anni form, which should make it below True Shikai (aka his "true pontential") and Final Getsuga.

Just not sure if New Year Ichigo would be above HOS True Bankai but i guess it makes sense for him to be so.

 

[Zoro21043]

dont think many agree but i think mugetsu >>> any other form of ichigo
as thats all of his power into 1 attack
tho i do think blood war ichigo can still use mugetsu as yhwach said he has regained the power he used to defeat aizen plus blood war ichigo was basically him becoming one with his powers like fgt ichigo so it makes sense for him to be able to use it
imo if blood war ichigo used it he would regain his powers without help as he has activated his quincy powers and should be able to absorb reiatsu
unless he is one of those rare quincies like yhwach or haschwalth who cant absorb

 

[Axxtentacle]

I'm pretty sure Mugetsu doesn't involve his Fullbring bth

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I personally would put the new pic of ichigo on the profile

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

How to ruin an entire arc in just two pages by DemonGodMitch!!!

Step 1: Give your MC a cool new form that you have been hyping up for 100+ chapters to fight the main bad guy with

Step 2: Immediately get rid of it

And that my friends is how you let down an entire fanbase and ruin the entire arc of a Shonen Battle Manga

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

He does yeah but i mean in the sense that his Fullbring powers are something separate from his True Zankaptou powers, since they are not inherently part of his True Shikai/Bankai as far as we are aware of? Seem more like he could use it on top of his True Shika/Bankai instead of being part of it, if anything.

I mean Ichigo's Fullbring was never anything more than a stat amp, and someone states that it melded with his Shinigami powers giving it a general boost. So I don't think that he can use any unique Fullbring ability, but it's more of just A) makes him a Soul King candidate B) makes him stronk.

I think 5th Anni would consistently scale below Mugetsu since Hollow Ichigo in the BBS story says Ichigo has not reached his full potential yet even after activating the 5th Anni form, which should make it below True Shikai (aka his "true pontential") and Final Getsuga.

I'd argue his full potential is the TB HoS and/or the Zangetsu Within. Also I think that Zangetsu was talking about how the Fullbring Bankai Ichigo we see in the manga was not using his full potential, and then when he uses his full potential it culminates in the 5th Anni form.

Just not sure if New Year Ichigo would be above HOS True Bankai but i guess it makes sense for him to be so.

I look at it like this, TB HoS is all of Ichigo's latent potential but New Years Ichigo is mastery over all of his latent potential. So Ichigo had access to all his potential in the TYBW but he wasn't releasing it at it's fullest (he admits to Yhwach that he doesn't have complete mastery yet), meanwhile New Years Ichigo is releasing all of his latent potential and thus should be the pinnacle.

dont think many agree but i think mugetsu >>> any other form of ichigo

I guess it depends on if you think Yhwach's statement meant Mugetsu = True Shikai. I guess if you took Aizen's words for law then you'd have a 5D Mugetsu, whilst TYBW Ichigo scales to 4D destruction statements.

How to ruin an entire arc in just two pages by DemonGodMitch!!!

Lol I enjoyed the final fight in Bleach, but then again as my boys back home say, I have Kubo's dick in my mouth whenever I talk about Bleach.

 

[Duedate8898]

How to ruin an entire arc in just two pages by DemonGodMitch!!!

Step 1: Give your MC a cool new form that you have been hyping up for 100+ chapters to fight the main bad guy with

Step 2: Immediately get rid of it

And that my friends is how you let down an entire fanbase and ruin the entire arc of a Shonen Battle Manga

Honestly, I think that one of the funniest moments in the manga for me.
Sure, I really don't like how it all ends and would love to see if anything changed with the latest version of Ichigo's bankai, but at most I figured he'd get a stat amp since that's all Ichigo ever really seems to get from his power ups.
But just seeing how quick and how poorly Ichigo reacts to it always brings out a chuckle from me.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

How to ruin an entire arc in just two pages by DemonGodMitch!!!

Step 1: Give your MC a cool new form that you have been hyping up for 100+ chapters to fight the main bad guy with

Step 2: Immediately get rid of it

And that my friends is how you let down an entire fanbase and ruin the entire arc of a Shonen Battle Manga

What about the multiple fights against the Demon King in NNT?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

What about the multiple fights against the Demon King in NNT?

That was more than two pages, that was a slow decline, I commend Bleach for how fast it managed to lose me entirely, I got blitzed by the disappointment

 

[Duedate8898]

What about the multiple fights against the Demon King in NNT?

Eh, at least you got a great send off to one of the best characters in the series from the last one.
And got to see everyone come together and be team for I think the first time in the series from the first one.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What about the multiple fights against the Demon King in NNT?

Stop your making me sad, then you're making me remember the third season of the anime, which in turn is making me more sad.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Stop your making me sad, then you're making me remember the third season of the anime, which in turn is making me more sad.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

That was more than two pages, that was a slow decline, I commend Bleach for how fast it managed to lose me entirely, I got blitzed by the disappointment

Well Bleach is known for it Speed Blitzing Characters (Audience included)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Outside of the story getting stupid towards the end imo, I think the ending of NNT from a character perspective was very well. I appreciate how the author extended the story to wrap up every sin's character arc.

Then I, in all my bias, love the theme's associated with how Bleach ended and just enjoy the ending in general.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

They did the demon king dirty

 

[HST_Master]

I just hope they expand Ichigo's 1st fight like letting him fight all 8 of the Sternritter that surrounded him. Slightly tired of people continously saying Dangai was his strongest because he bullied Aizen even though Yhwach directly says TS ~ Dangai.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Here's what I hope happens in the Anime

In Ichigo's battle with Ywhach, when he first uses Bankai, they have a decent amount of back and forth and then when Ichigo is about to use a final ultimate attack, that's when Ywhach breaks Ichigo's Bankai, then later when Ichigo arrives back against Ywhach, they have even more back and forth with Ichigo and Aizen doing some cool combo attacks together

I mean if Pierrot can extend Boruto fights with cool anime only stuff and great animation, then they can do the same for Bleach, but personally, I have doubts that will happen sadly

At least if that doesn't happen, Seth and Clyde's Naruto vs Ichigo Fan Animation will give us the Ichigo True Bankai fight we always wanted

 

[Cyberblader90]

i know there are statements for the three worlds being destroyed, but peak yhwach was the only one to display this level of power. Wouldnt it be safer to scale only that version

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

i know there are statements for the three worlds being destroyed, but peak yhwach was the only one to display this level of power. Wouldnt it be safer to scale only that version

No that falls under the issue of only scaling characters to what they physically do on screen.

By that logic none of the Espada should scale to destroying Las Noches because it's only from a statement.

If there are statements for 'x' version of Yhwach (and they aren't contradicted) then 'x' version of Yhwach would scale.

 

[Zoro21043]

i hope yhwach still breaks the bankai and instead they show us a fight from the future yhwach saw (i ******* hope they show it cuz thats what im looking forward to the most i should be pissed that kubo didnt do that but dudes health was ******)
cuz honestly yhwach breaking the bankai asap when he knew its a threat was something i really liked about yhwach as he didnt just stand there and let ichigo power up like many villains wouldve he didnt have any of that shit which makes me love him as a villain even more

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

At least if that doesn't happen, Seth and Clyde's Naruto vs Ichigo Fan Animation will give us the Ichigo True Bankai fight we always wanted

Dude I can't wait for that, apparently they got Johnny for voicing Ichigo.

And I'm sure the Bleach fights will be expanded with some fluff in the anime.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

The Brave Soul forms are all non canon guys... They have no stake in the actual manga, the Bankai that got one-shot by Ywhach is sadly the peak form that Ichigo has to our knowledge, that is unless the "True Zangetsu" Form is something different and even stronger

All these anniversary forms are just Kubo having fun designing cool forms for Ichigo, I honestly hate how Kubo did Ichigo and his powers in the Thousand Year Blood War, he never once got to go all out, I swear to god, the anime better fix that shit or I will be pissed as all hell, Ichigo's Bankai being one shot and Ywhach being revealed to have Fate Manipulation single handily ruined the entire Thousand Year Blood War

Dude, we know Brave Souls is Non Canon. We're looking at it as its own thing. Just like how Xenoverse is its own thing apart from Dragon Ball

 

[Tsubasa16]

I'd argue his full potential is the TB HoS and/or the Zangetsu Within. Also I think that Zangetsu was talking about how the Fullbring Bankai Ichigo we see in the manga was not using his full potential, and then when he uses his full potential it culminates in the 5th Anni form.

I don't really know it is the case because as i mentioned, even after Ichigo activates the 5th Anni form (which is triggered by him activating his Fullbring in his mental world while he already was in Shinigami form), Hollow Ichigo says it is "still not enough".

Tho i guess the way it would scale depends if "full potential" is interpreted as his True Shikai or HOS True Bankai. I think True Shikai would make the most sense since TOS True Bankai is more so the current "Full Power" of his "Full/True Potential", in which i interpret as being his True Zanpaktou/True Shikai. There is also the fact that as i mentioned it is implied that he barely has any Quincy powers in this form, just like with most of his Pre-TYBW canon forms.

I look at it like this, TB HoS is all of Ichigo's latent potential but New Years Ichigo is mastery over all of his latent potential. So Ichigo had access to all his potential in the TYBW but he wasn't releasing it at it's fullest (he admits to Yhwach that he doesn't have complete mastery yet), meanwhile New Years Ichigo is releasing all of his latent potential and thus should be the pinnacle.

Makes sense yes.

 

[Warren_Valion]

If they were to make Bankai Ichigo and Yhwach fight in the Anime, I kinda hope that they show him shit stomping Yhwach with his strength, which then leads to Yhwach using the Almighty to destroy his Bankai. Having them move back and forth makes the form underwhelming, imo.



But anyway, I saw someone mention Ichigo having Fullbring powers still, and it makes me mad about how Fullbrings were treated in the series, from their introduction, like with Ginjo moving the beverage he was drinking into his mouth, I thought they were all going to be like Aura and be matter manipulators - I thought Ichigo was going to get some hax, but he didn't - he just got his Shinigami powers back.

They could have been so much cooler, imo.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don't really know it is the case because as i mentioned, even after Ichigo activates the 5th Anni form (which is triggered by him activating his Fullbring in his mental world while he already was in Shinigami form), Hollow Ichigo says it is "still not enough".

Tho i guess the way it would scale depends if "full potential" is interpreted as his True Shikai or HOS True Bankai. I think True Shikai would make the most sense since TOS True Bankai is more so the current "Full Power" of his "Full/True Potential", in which i interpret as being his True Zanpaktou/True Shikai. There is also the fact that as i mentioned it is implied that he barely has any Quincy powers in this form, just like with most of his Pre-TYBW canon forms.

True I see where you’re coming from. Visually the form takes inspiration from the hollow White (with the sword being the arm) and the Mugetsu hair. I still think it’s like a what if Fullbring Bankai Ichigo never had his sword broken and reforged, and instead reached his full potential/power on his own (ie more naturally). Maybe it would be more accurate to put it around TS Shikai amounts of power, seeing how 5th Anni Ichigo’s reiatsu was distorting stuff around the whole world and there’s the Shunsui statement that TS Ichigo’s power might adversely affect the world. We also have Byakuya say that he’s impervious to kido. Regardless I think the form is meant to be on like endgame levels of power compared to his other forms.

 

[Naeblis495]

How to ruin an entire arc in just two pages by DemonGodMitch!!!

Step 1: Give your MC a cool new form that you have been hyping up for 100+ chapters to fight the main bad guy with

Step 2: Immediately get rid of it

And that my friends is how you let down an entire fanbase and ruin the entire arc of a Shonen Battle Manga

Execept that is one of my favorite scene in the whole of bleach ?

When a villain(especially the final one) can easily dunk on the MC , even after he trained and came back with new stuff and confident and shit( i'm sick of that trope) , then you know your vilain is not a joke , compared to 90% of other vilains who get defeated easily by a MC back from training .

Yhwach actually not letting the ichigo use his strongest form/attack against him . He dunked on ichigo the moment he sensed danger; as any vilain should.

Ichigo actually losing and giving up , like what anyone would do realistically against someone who can make Fate itself his bitch ,instead of "never giving up , no matter what" , is also part of my favorite scenes. Really cement ichigo as my favorite protag of main stream battle shonen.

Kubo actually made me beleive that Yhwach was unstoppable , something that pretty much no other shonen managed to . The only one i can remember was frieza on namek and even that was probably due to my young age at the time of reading it .

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I see what Yhwach did as the same thing as Aizen’s putting Number One on pause with the finger. Ichigo uses his new form, goes for the wombo combo with Renji, theme song going hard and Aizen just instantly says no u. I get wanting to see a flex like Dangai and yes, seeing TB body slam some unfortunate soul would be entertaining but there is just no point to it.

 

[Duedate8898]

Kubo actually made me beleive that Yhwach was unstoppable , something that pretty much no other shonen managed to . The only one i can remember was frieza on namek and even that was probably due to my young age at the time of reading it .

That's actually the main reason why I don't like the ending of bleach too much.
Because Yhwach seemed unbeatable and then suddenly a literal mcguffin which is only brought up that very chapter and just barely hinted at comes out of almost nowhere and somehow neutralizes him. Not to mention the inconsistency it creates with Uryu now being a blindspot in the All-Mighty where against Jugram this was no such thing.
Him being so unstoppable and then being stopped by something that comes from almost nowhere is ultimately unfulfilling to me. It's not his pride or any real fault of his own that gets him killed, it's something that he could never have known about.

That's just a terrible send-off to any antagonist in my opinion. And a poor way to send off the final and apparent biggest one in the story.

 

[MetalGearRaiden]

my personal wish for the anime:
Ichigo uses Bankai, completely curbstomps Yhwach (idk how), wins the match,hugs Orihime , AND THEN IT IS REVEALED, THAT THE ENTIRE SEQUENCE IS YHWACH'S FUTURE SIGHT, AND HE PROCEEDS TO BREAK TENSA ZANGETSU AND CURBSTOMP ICHIGO INSTEAD

Muahahaha

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I wouldn’t mind that tbh. Just gotta have Yhwach say that all the Schrifts don’t do anything so Ichigo negs all of them.

 

[Ovy7]

Ichigo - 0 hax, but all hax resistance in the verse
XD

 

[Naeblis495]

my personal wish for the anime:
Ichigo uses Bankai, completely curbstomps Yhwach (idk how), wins the match,hugs Orihime , AND THEN IT IS REVEALED, THAT THE ENTIRE SEQUENCE IS YHWACH'S FUTURE SIGHT, AND HE PROCEEDS TO BREAK TENSA ZANGETSU AND CURBSTOMP ICHIGO INSTEAD

Muahahaha

That would be a nice compromise i guess .
At least , i would be fine with that . It would have far less of an impact but would probably satisfy those who wish to see ichigo stomp Yhwach.