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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Duedate8898 said:
That's actually the main reason why I don't like the ending of bleach too much.
Because Yhwach seemed unbeatable and then suddenly a literal mcguffin which is only brought up that very chapter and just barely hinted at comes out of almost nowhere and somehow neutralizes him. Not to mention the inconsistency it creates with Uryu now being a blindspot in the All-Mighty where against Jugram this was no such thing.
Him being so unstoppable and then being stopped by something that comes from almost nowhere is ultimately unfulfilling to me. It's not his pride or any real fault of his own that gets him killed, it's something that he could never have known about.

That's just a terrible send-off to any antagonist in my opinion. And a poor way to send off the final and apparent biggest one in the story.
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I have a problem with the arrow as well. Not the concept of it , but how late it was introduced.

Uryu stated that Jugram's Almighty wasn't complete anyway , so even if he could bypass it slightly due to his nature or whatever , we wouldn't know it. You only need a single future/possibility that Yhwach can't see to beat him (with the arrow at least) especially if he beleive that nothing can escape his eyes and don't bother to be much on guard against unforseen futures.

IMO , as long as the arrow is foreshadowed much earlier in the arc , i'm fine with the ending and how the final fight play out . But i wouldn't mind some fight extension here and there of course .

Now , what Kishimoto did to Madara ? THAT pisses me the **** off .
 
I liked both the part of Yhwach breaking Ichigo bankai, and the ending.
the only thing I didn’t like is how rushed was the final fight, with more explanation about the arrow/ishida and Ichigo it would be fairly better. But that because the multiple problem kubo had, and shueshia being dumb.
 
Naeblis495 said:
i can't talk for everyone , but i loved Yhwach . At least as much as Aizen .

Aizen playing with his food became tiring after a while.
Yhwach , on the other , pretty much never played around and got shit done . And his design is just Glorious .
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Until he started preaching...
 
Naeblis495 said:
I have a problem with the arrow as well. Not the concept of it , but how late it was introduced.

Uryu stated that Jugram's Almighty wasn't complete anyway , so even if he could bypass it slightly due to his nature or whatever , we wouldn't know it. You only need a single future/possibility that Yhwach can't see to beat him (with the arrow at least) especially if he beleive that nothing can escape his eyes and don't bother to be much on guard against unforseen futures.

IMO , as long as the arrow is foreshadowed much earlier in the arc , i'm fine with the ending and how the final fight play out . But i wouldn't mind some fight extension here and there of course .

Now , what Kishimoto did to Madara ? THAT pisses me the **** off .
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The arrow as a concept is actually really interesting. The idea pretty much summarizes a message I think was trying to be communicated through Yhwach, to use others and disregard them at your leisure with no mercy or will come back to bite you. Yhwach, more than anyone before is shown to treat his underlings like nothing more than help for himself, once that ends, they can go. So ultimately having him fall to the disregarded remains and one who he had already thrown away is very thematically fitting.

It just sucks because this isn't really acknowledged by anyone else and because I have no idea how Uryu's grandfather even came to the conclusion of what Still Silver could do, Yhwach is the only user of Auswählen as far as we know so it couldn't have been tested out ever. And it seems only Ryūken and Isshin knew about it, so just what hoops did he jump through to say, "Yup, this will totally just negate all of this user's powers if it ever mixes with his blood. Definitely."
 
My head canon on the Bleach ending is as follows (after reading it like 7 times lol).

Way back around chapter 540ish, Yhwach goes on to talk to Uryu about how he's special and draws attention to the fact that he wasn't targeted by the Auswahlen. It's said in such a way that it wasn't Yhwach not targeting Uryu, but just that Uryu just didn't show up on his impure Quincy radar that he used to target all of them with the Auswahlen. This seems to me to be Kubo implying that Uryu is a blindspot for Yhwach's Almighty.

Then Haschwalth mentions that Yhwach putting all the spotlight on Uryu had the hidden purpose of making it so Uryu couldn't act on his own with everyone keeping their eyes on him. The only reason I can see for Yhwach doing this is that he can't "see" Uryu's actions himself. I think this is further supported by Yhwach seemingly being unaware of Uryu scattering those pieces of explosive paper, while Jugram did pick up on them. Uryu was planning to blow the Quincy palace to smithereens, yet Yhwach did nothing to act on the scenario, but Jugram say it immediately as soon as he got the Almighty. Haschwalth also comments that Uryu's ability is most suited for countering Yhwach's (it's called the Antithesis, very "clever" Kubo lol).

Ryuken inadvertently backs up this theory when he tells his son that he has to be the one to fire the arrow. Ryuken implies that Uryu is the only person capable of landing the shot, which to me further supports Uryu being a blindspot to Yhwach's Almighty. After all, Yhwach seemed surprised to be struck by the arrow.

As far as the arrow being foreshadowed, we are shown flashbacks of Ryuken gathering the Stil Silver from his wife's body and we are told the Auswahlen steals Quincy powers via clotting their heart with this silver. So I think of the Stil Silver arrow as being a portable mini-Auswahlen. It being established as a Quincy power robbing attack, in combination with Uryu being implied unseen by Yhwach as far as 100+ chapters before the end, in hindsight (which I know is 20/20) makes it seem like a very predictable outcome had you put together the pieces regarding Uryu and Stil Silver before the final fight.

Also, Jugram shows Yhwach the future vision of OG Shikai (which we find out is just his Inner Zangetsu) cutting him down. Yhwach thinks it's just a dream, but here's why I think he comes to that conclusion. There was no way for Ichigo to beat Yhwach on his own, he could only kill Yhwach thanks to Uryu's intervention, but as I said above I believe Kubo was trying to tell us that Yhwach couldn't see Uryu. So Yhwach was showed a vision where in his mind he just saw Ichigo cutting him and killing him. Which in Yhwach's mind can't make any sense because Ichigo has no special hax power, he's all brute and brawn, so seeing that his "dream" was so inexplicable he passed it off as just that a dream. And because he did that, he inadvertently set in stone that Ichigo would survive the encounter long enough to capitalize on Yhwach's kryptonite, Uryu, coming through to set up the kill.

I think this thematically fits Uryu's character as well, as he is the spiritual and literal successor to his grandfather's ideals, of working with Shinigami. In tandem with how Ichigo is the Shinigami who changes the Shinigami's stagnant view on the cycle of life. Together they represent a united front of Shinigami and Quincy that never happened so long ago, and that ended up leading to the fatal war in the final arc. For Uryu to be a rejected "unseen" ideal of a Quincy to be quite literally invisible to the father and representative of all Quincy is just the kind of symbolism I think Kubo puts in his work.

Of course this is just what I make of what Kubo has given us, but it's the most satisfying interpretation of the ending of Bleach for me personally that works on a narrative and technical standpoint.

Edit: I don't know how this got like this, but this was supposed to be a response to @AnonymousBlank earlier post on Stil Silver lol.
 
I thought Yhwach viewed Ichigo killing him with his OG Shikai as a dream because he didn't have that version of Zangetsu anymore.

I don't know if I buy that Uryu is not viewable through the Almighty, but I can accept that Yhwach can't see the Still Silver.
 
4mkuN1v_d.webp

Can someone translate the size of Hell from the Hellverse movie info given to us in this scan?
 
多重世界 literally translates to "multiple worlds/multiple universes". 多重 means multiple and 世界 means world/universe. Although, I've seen various translation sites translate it to multiverse, and I can't comment on if the following is true but I've heard that it is contextually used in Japan as multiverse.
 
Warren_Valion said:
So Ichigo's feat is like Multi-planetary to multi-universal? Lmao.
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Yeah depending on how you interpret "多重世界" it's either 3x planetary or 3x universal.

It's very consistent with Yamamoto viewing Full Hollow Ichigo as above himself either way lol. Seeing how Yamamoto in Bankai was going to passively destroy Soul Society, whether you consider it casual overtime planetary or casual overtime universal doesn't matter seeing as Full Hollow Ichigo is portrayed as multi-planetary to multi-universal depending on the translation.

TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Is a shame that soul king did not make hell
Click to expand...
Lol if you wanted to take the Yhwach is going to destroy everything connected to the Garganta literally, you could credit him with the feat of destroying Hell. After all if there's going to be no life or death, there's no need for Hell (where sinners go when they die).
 
Seems to me that multi-planetary might be the context if that is the case.

Anyway, Full Hollow being > than Yamamoto is crazy to think about.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I mean with Hell being multi-planetary to multi-universal in size, FH Ichigo may unironically have the best on screen DC feat in Bleach.
Click to expand...
If it's Planetary that's an outlier for god tiers cuz Ichigo got a gigantic power boost for only starting to learn how to properly use Hollow powers ezgg
 
Is there a reason why the Hellverse movie isn't considered Canon?

Isn't the fight scene with Ulquiorra at the beginning considered the canon way that fight happened?
 
Axxtentacle said:
If it's Planetary that's an outlier for god tiers cuz Ichigo got a gigantic power boost for only starting to learn how to properly use Hollow powers ezgg
Click to expand...
I don't see how it'd be an outlier, being that his only feats outside of the movie are ragdolling SE Ulq, and Yamamoto admits that FH Ichigo performed a feat he thought was impossible.

Warren_Valion said:
Isn't the fight scene with Ulquiorra at the beginning considered the canon way that fight happened?
Click to expand...
Yes, Kubo said that the movie's depiction of the fight is closer to how he pictured it.

Warren_Valion said:
Is there a reason why the Hellverse movie isn't considered Canon?
Click to expand...
Kubo wanted to have his title of executive producer removed because he felt he didn't participate enough in the development process and didn't feel his inputs were properly inserted into the script. However, at the same time he says things like FH Ichigo's depiction (with specific regard to the SE Ulq fight) is closer to how he envisioned it. So I've seen people say that the story isn't canon but the characters and how they're depicted (their feats and whatnot) are okay to use. On one hand you have Kubo being humble and saying he didn't contribute enough to the narrative, but on the other hand you have Kubo saying the FH Ichigo vs Se Ulq fight is more accurate in the movie plus Kubo drew the preliminary sketches for Hell plus Kubo went out of his way to write a tie-in mini chapter for the movie. He even said that the characters in the movie had a very Bleach feel.
 
Which is weird cause first Ichigo could only stalemate Ulquiorra's CO with his Cero but in Hellverse he is bodied it with what I keep mistaking for a Bala.
 
Dangai_Ichigo said:
Which is weird cause first Ichigo could only stalemate Ulquiorra's CO with his Cero but in Hellverse he is bodied it with what I keep mistaking for a Bala.
Click to expand...
Ehhhh I think it's more like he released a cero with the soul purpose of cancelling it out. Since in the manga he palms Lanza del Relampago, which the databooks state is Ulq's strongest attack (means FH Ichigo's palm at half power > Lanza > CO).
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Ehhhh I think it's more like he released a cero with the soul purpose of cancelling it out. Since in the manga he palms Lanza del Relampago, which the databooks state is Ulq's strongest attack (means FH Ichigo's palm at half power > Lanza > CO).
Click to expand...
Even then I still keep mistaking it for a bala because of how fast he shoots that thing compared to the Ceros he used throughout the movie

More like FH Ichigo's palm at 1/4 to 1/5 of his power
 
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