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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

This is a lot to take in. But the movie isn't canon sadly. It doesn't fit the timeline, unless, you count the The Reigai Uprising anime arc as canon. Is the only way for the movie to fit in the timeline. And Kubo did make a one-shot manga for this movie. That could be canon, but not the movie. Maybe similar events happened but not the same ones.
 
AppleLord said:
This is a lot to take in. But the movie isn't canon sadly. It doesn't fit the timeline, unless, you count the The Reigai Uprising anime arc as canon. Is the only way for the movie to fit in the timeline. And Kubo did make a one-shot manga for this movie. That could be canon, but not the movie. Maybe similar events happened but not the same ones.
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I think you can argue that the feats portrayed by FH Ichigo are representative of his actual strength in the manga. Especially when you have Yama who's a threat to the world with his Bankai passively imply FH Ichigo is above him, and then FH Ichigo destroys three layers of Hell making him multi-planetary and Ichigo thought it was a threat to the world.

Albeit you could also argue that movie Ichigo is multi-universal or even multiversal with that kanji. Which makes movie 4 Ichigo debatably the strongest version of Ichigo.

Hell's size of multi-planetary/multi-universal/multiversal tho would be canon as it was the text accompanying the sketches Kubo drew of Hell.
 
Honestly I can kinda see an argument for Hell being contextually multi-universal in size considering that it existed before the Soul King, it is potentially housing trillions if not more souls (considering Yama by himself racked up trillions of kills) and it's very barren with people. Like if you subscribe to the idea that it is housing trillions if not more sinners and combine that with how sparsely populated it is, it would have to be larger than 5 planets in size, meaning that multi-universal might be the better translation (not to mention world could mean universe too). It would arguably have to be unfathomably large in size to handle a potential influx of infinite sinners as time progresses forever. Still wild that this was never translated before.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Like if you subscribe
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peGOGcSGiGX5okWtNauuf7ON0pLrXHDLvXf3pq8KlwQ.jpg

​
 
An update on the Hell Verse scan apparently 多重世界 refers to the Everett many-worlds interpretations (aka multiverse theory). If you google "多重世界" it takes you to the Japanese wiki page on multiverse theory (which was brought to my attention when I posted a question on the r/translator reddit page inquiring about how it's commonly used contextually).

Hell being called 多重世界 (which is in direct reference to multiverse theory) debunks the notion that the original universe (pre Soul King) was only universal in size, since it would be housing a 2-C construct.

So I guess the most accurate translation of 地獄は、様相の異なる幾つかの階層からなる　″多重世界″ would be: Hell is, consisting of several layers/hierarchies of varying aspects/phases, a "multiverse".

Edit: Funny enough I was thinking on this Movie 4 Ichigo (Full Hollow and Skull-Clad) are arguably above the entire verse.

Reason being, if you give Yhwach the benefit of destroying SS and WotL = destroying two separate universal time-spaces, Bleach God Tiers in the manga would scale to arbitrarily above a 2-C structure composed of 2 universes. While if you give Movie 4 Ichigo the benefit of Hell being a reference to multiverse theory meaning a 2-C structure instead of multiple 3-A structures, since Movie 4 Ichigo is a threat to the entirety of Hell and he ended up destroying 3 layers (universes in this case), he'd scale arbitrarily above a 2-C structure composed of 3-5 universes. Of course if you say that Aizen's statement regarding Mugetsu was literal and that Yhwach equated it to TS Ichigo, you'd have 5D = Mugetsu = TS Ichigo < the other God Tiers and Ichigo's stronger forms, and that'd be the absolute peak of Bleach strength.

Which is just weird cuz that means that Hell Verse FH Ichigo solos TB HoS Ichigo lol. However, either way you cut it, Hell being described with the many-worlds interpretations puts Hell Verse Ichigo among the God Tiers of the verse (something about non-canon forms scaling to/above the God Tiers lol, looking at you Quincy Ichigo, 5th Anni Ichigo, and now Hell Verse Ichigo).
 
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W0NDER3X said:
I'm not sure if that's how it works. Kokuto was spectating the canon fight between Ichigo and Ulquiorra.
Therefore Ulquiorra would not scale to the FH Ichigo we see in Hell.
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Especially because in the Movie they're just seeing Bankai Ichigo barely with the mask and they're already like "OH YES! You have the power needed to do This!" Like Kokuto knows it was Vasto Lorde at 1/4 power who did it and Shuren actually thought just Ichigo with the Hollow Mask could accomplish the same
 
I don't think there's anything against them, just that they need to be made sure not to be low-quality.

Having alternate profiles for different canons is fine with me.
 
You could but it’ll be annoying. Just getting the scans from the Beyond Resurrección was annoying for me and they don’t have many parts. CaoCao gonna be hell lol

Edit: I can take a few sub stories if need be.
 
The CaoCao thing as far as I know is another Universe right? And something about White destroying or something, I remember a friend of mine commented on that.
 
USklaverei said:
The CaoCao thing as far as I know is another Universe right? And something about White destroying or something, I remember a friend of mine commented on that.
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Yes, in the Cacao Society Arc White stays on that world and he wishes to destroy It, Ichigo at the end of it was the only one who could defeat White. And the event keeps repeating that on almost the same amount of times Yhwach is said to be going to destroy the worlds except here we know for a fact that White doesn't have any hax he's just pure brute force
 
IIRC there was a statement for alternate universes in BBS. And all the Desert Society, Cacao Society, etc etc are just different versions of the Soul Society. Putting 2 and 2 together. Wouldn't that hint at a multiverse?
 
There is definitely a multiverse since Desert Kon summons CaoCao Kisuke and the first Summer Orihime and even says they are from another universe. Spirit has Canon Ichigo being pulled into it twice and Fairy is the same thing iirc. Can’t say for CaoCao since it’s been a while since I played through.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
There is definitely a multiverse since Desert Kon summons CaoCao Kisuke and the first Summer Orihime and even says they are from another universe. Spirit has Canon Ichigo being pulled into it twice and Fairy is the same thing iirc. Can’t say for CaoCao since it’s been a while since I played through.
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Cacao did pull Ichigo, Uryu, Orihime, Chad and even KEIGO in there too
 
Also about the Cacao Society, Cacao and Machine Society are stated at the very beginning of the first Machine Society story to be the same universe, just at different time periods.

Really wish we got to see Spirit Society Ichigo but it seems they won't do them anymore lol.
 
Tsubasa16 said:
Also about the Cacao Society, Cacao and Machine Society are stated at the very beginning of the first Machine Society story to be the same universe, just at different time periods.

Really wish we got to see Spirit Society Ichigo but it seems they won't do them anymore lol.
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Cacao twice? You mean Spirit or something? Do you have that scan?
 
Dangai_Ichigo said:
Cacao twice? You mean Spirit or something? Do you have that scan?
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I mean that the Cacao Society and Machine Society are the same universe at different points in time ("Machine Society" is just Cacao Society a long time in the future), that's stated in the Machine Society Story.

There is a video that shows the story here: (starting at 4:10 to 4:44)
 
To my knowledge, you can't have alternate profiles for versions of a character who are genuinely the same.

But things like BBS Ichigo or Hellverse Ichigo through explicitly unique events and gain specifically unique power and transformations.

Having a profile for them is fine.
 
Tsubasa16 said:
I mean that the Cacao Society and Machine Society are the same universe at different points in time ("Machine Society" is just Cacao Society a long time in the future), that's stated in the Machine Society Story.

There is a video that shows the story here: (starting at 4:10 to 4:44)
Click to expand...

But then...How is Riruka in both? Is that Riruka just a descendant?
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Someone say BBS/Hell Verse profile, I’ll get on that :)|
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Nice, thanks for volunteering to do the heavy work Arc! XD

So by what we discussed most BBS Ichigo forms seem easy to scale, 5th Anni form should scale a bit below True Shikai per story statements (Powerful enough to passively distort stuff around the world which is similar to Shunsui's statement about TS Ichigo, but still not powerful enough to be considered his "true potential" by Hollow Ichigo), New Year Ichigo would be above HOS True Bankai due to reasons pointed out in the thread and 2nd Anni Ichigo is essentially Full-Power Vasto Lorde.
 
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Tsubasa16 said:
Nice, thanks for volunteering to do the heavy work Arc! XD

So by what we discussed most BBS Ichigo forms seem easy to scale, 5th Anni form should scale a bit below True Shikai per story statements (Powerful enough to passively distort stuff around the world which is similar to Shunsui's statement about TS Ichigo, but still not powerful enough to be considered his "true potential" by Hollow Ichigo), New Year Ichigo would be above HOS True Bankai due to reasons pointed out in the thread and 2nd Anni Ichigois essentially Full-Power Vasto Lorde.
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I'm volunteering too. I just made a entire Discord Server just for me to collect Scans
 
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