• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Awarding Boruto Many Success Achievements Via Shippuden Achievements Of Success

Status
Not open for further replies.
Man, here we were discussing about the issues with Sakura and Shin being scaled to 5-B and now suddenly it's a powerscaling issue related to the entire wiki?

Jesus ******* Christ man people love overcomplicating shit for the sake of overcomplicating them. If they're an outlier, they're an outlier. End the issue there. This has nothing to do with being laid-back on how powerscaling works.

Character A punches with 5-B energy casually by flexing or finger flicking or by tossing planets physically with pinkies. Character A and Character B fight with the intent to kill each other and are pissed at each other. Character A makes a powerful gut punch to Character B. Character B laughs it off. Character B now has 5-B durability.

While there are grounds to assume holding back on AP, the same can't be said for durability, especially if there is no in-verse mechanic that explains this (Unless of course, they do, like dropping in power level when letting your guard down like in Dragon Ball, or your power levels fluctuating based on your mental state, like Superman or Sentry).

Your torso or head doesn't drop in durability when someone cuts off your leg, why would we assume the same elsewhere without any in-verse explanations for such a drop in durability?
 
Cyberblader90 said:
*Sakura and the kages after having more than a decade to grow in power with several narrative implications that the five villages made severe efforts to do so to combat Invaders like kaguya, with further affirmation on characters like kakashi getting magnitudes stronger
Click to expand...
Need I also remind you how it was stated that hiruzen had surpassed both hashirama and tobirama? How did it turn out when we caught a glimpse of madara? I'll tell you how, he was fodder.

Using logic that is already proven wrong on previous instances is BS
 
I don’t see the need to be hung up on the kid Shin point anyhow, Shin straight up catches one of Sasuke’s attacks and harms him later on anyhow.
 
Practically nearly every argument at the moment is that it doesn't make any logical sense for the characters to be that strong which is more so just appealing to an emotional standpoint.

You have the characters that definitively scale, you have the other ones battling them on a relative basis, you have the narrative reasoning that is consistent across all Canon media of boruto, and you have the accolades all supporting the jump in power over the decade
 
GTsek said:
Sarada punched the ground and sent all the Kid Shins flying...
Click to expand...
Do you intend to provide scans, or at least give the chapter number? Cause the Shin from Chapter 2 that fought Sasuke didn’t take a single hit from Sarada or Chocho and had them both on the ground before Naruto showed up.
 
KLOL506 said:
Man, here we were discussing about the issues with Sakura and Shin being scaled to 5-B and now suddenly it's a powerscaling issue related to the entire wiki?

Jesus ******* Christ man people love overcomplicating shit for the sake of overcomplicating them. If they're an outlier, they're an outlier. End the issue there. This has nothing to do with being laid-back on how powerscaling works.

Character A punches with 5-B energy casually. Character A and Character B fight with the intent to kill each other and are pissed at each other. Character A makes a powerful gut punch to Character B. Character B laughs it off. Character B now has 5-B durability.

While there are grounds to assume holding back on AP, the same can't be said for durability, especially if there is no in-verse mechanic that explains this (Unless of course, they do, like dropping in power level when letting your guard down like in Dragon Ball, or your power levels fluctuating based on your mental state, like Superman or Sentry).
Click to expand...
I knew you'd be back.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Need I also remind you how it was stated that hiruzen had surpassed both hashirama and tobirama? How did it turn out when we caught a glimpse of madara? I'll tell you how, he was fodder.

Using logic that is already proven wrong on previous instances is BS
Click to expand...
That is such a bad example. That's from one of the earlier data books and relatively early in series, and we don't even get to see what a prime hiruzen even does
 
LordTracer said:
Not really, because you’re still making it out to be like Sasuke was so incredibly low on chakra that it’s a major nerf or something.

Yes, Sasuke wasn’t at full capacity. That’s why he lost the tomoe. But the fact of the matter is that he still has the Rinnegan, which would logically put him above a version of himself without it.
Click to expand...
Please elaborate on the logic. It isn't intuitive at all, and sounds like a simple declaration that one nerf is more significant than the other nerf.
 
KLOL506 said:
Man, here we were discussing about the issues with Sakura and Shin being scaled to 5-B and now suddenly it's a powerscaling issue related to the entire wiki?

Jesus ******* Christ man people love overcomplicating shit for the sake of overcomplicating them. If they're an outlier, they're an outlier. End the issue there. This has nothing to do with being laid-back on how powerscaling works.

Character A punches with 5-B energy casually. Character A and Character B fight with the intent to kill each other and are pissed at each other. Character A makes a powerful gut punch to Character B. Character B laughs it off. Character B now has 5-B durability.

While there are grounds to assume holding back on AP, the same can't be said for durability, especially if there is no in-verse mechanic that explains this (Unless of course, they do, like dropping in power level when letting your guard down like in Dragon Ball, or your power levels fluctuating based on your mental state, like Superman or Sentry).
Click to expand...
The only reason any of the shin's should supposedly scale is because they were able to hurt naruto and sasuke despite the fact that the entire franchise is inconsistent when it comes to slashing and piercing attacks
 
I mean I still personally believe Prime Hiruzen>Prime Hashirama. Yall just heretics for not having faith in the hype
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Please elaborate on the logic. It isn't intuitive at all, and sounds like a simple declaration that one nerf is more significant than the other nerf.
Click to expand...
How it is not intuitive- the Rinnegan itself is accepted as an amp. So Sasuke having it would be superior to Sasuke when he doesn’t have it, it’s fairly simple.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
Prove to me at that moment Character A was punching with the force of his 5-B tier and not his weaker 6-A smh
Click to expand...
Hopefully that's sarcasm because I can't even tell what's what anymore at this thread LOL but if it's a serious question let's just ask good old Clark Kent from the Golden Age blowing out stars with his breath.
 
Damage3245 said:
Shin using his MS jutsu to harm Sasuke has never been a point of contention and isn't relevant to his durability.
Click to expand...
Especially when the series is inconsistent with slashing and piercing attacks unless you have some kind of armor or forcefield
 
Juubi should also be 5-B. Even after Gaara learns that Naruto has been beaten by the Jigen/Isshiki, Naruto mentions that he has a Juubi with the Code, and Gaara asks "Do we have to face this monster again?" and Naruto says "In the worst case, yes.". Naruto says the Juvenile Juubi is a bad news even grater than the Code, even considering the scenario where he regains his power and becomes stronger than Jigen. In addition to the juubi having enough strength to chew and totally destroy the body of an Ootsutsuki. That is, they must be 5-B.
 
GTsek said:
Juubi should also be 5-B. Even after Gaara learns that Naruto has been beaten by the Jigen/Isshiki, Naruto mentions that he has a Juubi with the Code, and Gaara asks "Do we have to face this monster again?" and Naruto says "In the worst case, yes.". Naruto says the Juvenile Juubi is a bad news even grater than the Code, even considering the scenario where he regains his power and becomes stronger than Jigen. In addition to the juubi having enough strength to chew and totally destroy the body of an Ootsutsuki. That is, they must be 5-B.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't Juubi be 5-B just by the mere notion of having fought against Hammy and Hags?
 
Dam, I have way fewer disagreements then I thought I would. Though I still have a decent amount.

I don't think Night Guy is just Low 5-B+, as it's not like he just damaged Madara, Night Guy legit blew a hole through the entire portion of Madara's body that Guy hit, and Madara stated that he almost died. Unless by Night Guy you mean 8th Gate Guy, in which case I agree. But then maybe saying Low 5-B+, far higher with Night Guy would be better, or maybe straight up 5-B as Night Guy MASSIVELY upscales from Juubidara's durability, and this is consistent with SPSM Naruto's Lava Rasenshuriken doing comparable if not lesser damage to Madara.

I believe SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke should be separated into different forms, as they clearly progressed throughout the fight as they adjusted to their new powers (similar to EMS Sasuke growing from MKCM Naruto level to either MKCM2 or BSM Naruto level). At first, they were pretty relative to 1 Eyed Juubidara, with him being able to block Naruto's strike, tag and damage him, and briefly withstand the force of Naruto and Sasuke's Rasengan and Chidori hitting him. As you said, they then displayed relativity to 2 Eyed Juubidara, but Kaguya instantly manhandled them with no difficulty, with Sasuke even noting that her chakra was on an entirely level from Madara's despite seeing 3 Eyed Juubidara. Then later, Naruto traded fists with her before being overpowered, which still showed her superiority, but not to such an extent as before. And while I'm not sure if this was more Black Zetsu or Kaguya, Naruto overpowered the grip that was stealing his and Sasuke's chakra. While this was somewhat offguard, he did damage Kaguya with just a normal punch. And with an amp from Kokuo, he just blatantly scales above Kaguya's physicals, and his Naruto Ultimate Barrage pressured her enough to make her flee into another dimension. Naruto and Sasuke also withstood the ultra heavy gravity dimension that affected Kaguya, potentially giving them somewhat comparable durability or at least lifting strength to her. Sasuke's Chidori made her change the dimension to flee it, implying it would've been able to damage her, and his Perfect Susanoo punching even at an awkward angle that wouldn't allow it to put its full strength in the swing sent Kaguya flying away, in addition to her feeling the need to evade his sword swing. Then Naruto's Rasenshuriken Barrage caused bruises and scratches all over her body, with the databook further implying it had a significant effect on her. All around, it's quite consistent for EoS Naruto and Sasuke to scale low end relative to Kaguya (although mostly Naruto since he had far more feats against her). So I'd propose either separating their Teen Six Paths versions into 3 keys or saying "Small Planet level+ upon first obtaining Six Paths powers, Planet level while fighting Dual Rinnegan Jūbi Jinchūriki Madara, even higher while fighting Kaguya."

For The Last, I'm sure you know about the statement of Toneri being the strongest enemy already and doubt its reliability, but the only real counterargument is Kaguya being a greater threat in Boruto, but she was a greater threat due to having greater power in comparison to the heroes at the time. While Kaguya was stronger than Naruto and Sasuke combined, Naruto alone was relative/stronger than Toneri in TL, making him a smaller threat relatively speaking. About Sasuke, you said he has no feats and statements, but TL novel actually stated he was Kakashi's strongest student, pitting him above TL Naruto.

Sasuke's not relative to Kinshiki. That's only 3T Sasuke. EMS Sasuke was able to tag and send Fused Momoshiki flying with a punch even after he noticed him and slashed apart his dragon attacks. He's also consistently stated and implied to be Naruto's equal.

Koji is definitely being wanked. For one thing, Jigen was actually stated to be at LESS than 10%, not even 10%. Despite this, Base Jigen matches him consistently in terms of physicals, only ever being at a disadvantage due to Koji's versatility and skill. Base Koji being above Delta is far too vague a scene to use concretely, when that hand sign has been used before for a sealing jutsu, which isn't really implicative of AP. And him scaling below 10% Base Jigen definitely shows he's not on SPSM Naruto's level, cause Naruto forced Jigen to go Karma V1 after kicking him away, implying he was at least relative to FP Base Jigen, if not superior. So SPSM Naruto and Delta should be more than 10x stronger than Base Koji. At best, it's SM Koji who's 5-B via scaling very minusculy to Isshiki. He's still below FP Naruto and Sasuke though, as it was stated they were the only ones who had a chance of stopping Isshiki, and that they have the greatest fighting power, which wouldn't be the case is Boruto Era Kakashi~/>Base Koji>Delta~SPSM Naruto. Although I will say that there's a caveat to this I'll mention when I get to Naruto and Sasuke again shortly.

I don't have any problems with Isshiki scaling over the ETSO, and I agree, but I disagree that no other characters would scale with him. While Naruto and Sasuke were clearly weaker, they were able to at least pose a mild threat to Isshiki, with Naruto's clones attacking eliciting an exclamation mark from him and making him dodge, Naruto suppressing him with his chakra arms, forcing him to use Daikokuten to stop Sasuke, and Sasuke stopping his rod stab. In addition, they have many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many durability feats against him. Considering Karma V2 Jigen had a better performance against them despite being far weaker than Isshiki, I'd like to propose that like in their teen states, Naruto and Sasuke got stronger since the Jigen fight, as that resolves this seeming contradiction, and would at least allow SM Koji to scale to/above Jigen fight SPSM Naruto (still disagree though, since Amado's statement should've been made with knowledge of Pre-Jigen fight Naruto and Sasuke's strength).

For Kawaki, I think this statement is good as supporting evidence, and I agree with his scaling in general.

The rest I mostly agree with. I'll just add that I think EoS Sakura should also somewhat scale to EoS Naruto and Sasuke, rather than just Boruto Era Sakura. She provided enough chakra to Obito to power his dimensional Kamui, something he stated a SPSM Naruto clone on its own wouldn't be able to, despite Naruto only having one clone out at this point (so it's not like you can argue the chakra was too vastly dispersed) and Naruto's clones being able to previously fight on par with 2 Eyed Juubidara's Limbo clones. Just in case you still don't believe the clone had any amount of chakra and is incredibly weak, it was able to dodge an attack from Kaguya before being hit offguard. I know this isn't a speed thread, just saying that if his speed is God Tier, his AP and thus chakra should be around that tier as well. This is consistent with, as I showed above, Sakura withstanding the heavy gravity dimension affecting 5-B characters. Then there's the infamous Kaguya punch, which, while not a blitz like some will meme about, is definitely a great AP feat, because even if you argue Kaguya was offguard, she was an exponentially stronger Kaguya than the one Naruto punched offguard, and Sakura still did more damage. So in terms of physical strength, EoS Sakura>EoS SPSM Naruto, which is consistent with the databook statement of her not falling behind Naruto and Sasuke. EoS Base Kakashi and DMS Obito also survived the gravity dimension and were even able to stand up and run around in it, so their dura probably also scales to God Tier. And SPC BZ Obito's low end relative to Pre-God Tree Juubidara for the reasons currently listed on Black Zetsu's profile and also because he had the strength to pull out some of the Bijuu chakra from Madara, which Madara stated was related to strength.

Despite some disagreements, great work all around!
 
Last edited:
If the source material states Sauce wasn't at full power, then he wasn't at full power and thus wasn't using 5-B power there, end of story, goodbye, the end. Why are y'all complicating things and making this to be a powerscaling issue when it's not?
 
Tatsumi504 said:
I don't know, how about the fact that sarada and chocho would also scale to this?
Click to expand...
Sarada would scale through Mitsuki, senninka Mitsuki scale to Ku who scale to Kurotsuchi, Post workout Sarada after losing to Deepa is equal to Boruto base and senninka Mitsuki
 
KLOL506 said:
Shouldn't Juubi be 5-B just by the mere notion of having fought against Hammy and Hags?
Click to expand...
This is the Juubi at full power, but the Juubi even in juvenile form do what I said and are considered a bigger threat than the Code at full power
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Its relevant cause you're using statements of "surpassing their previous selves by magnitudes" when such arguments have been BS before
Click to expand...
From different eras, with completely different context, with one proven to be legitimate.

You guys have got to stop bringing up one time things from prior parts of the series that have zero relevancy to what's being discussed at hand.
 
It was considered a worst case scenario cause the thing ******* nukes everything in site with no regard like the mindless freaking beast it is

They never stated it was stronger than Code tf?

Furthermore Base Jigen alone treated it like it was a guard dog
 
AnimesFreak2 said:
It was considered a worst case scenario cause the thing ******* nukes everything in site with no regard like the mindless freaking beast it is

They never stated it was stronger than Code tf?

Furthermore Base Jigen alone treated it like it was a guard dog
Click to expand...
To mean they were basing themselves on the Juubi of war, so much so that he appears when Shikamaru talks about it.
 
LordTracer said:
Can you explain why? I genuinely don’t understand why you don’t think Shin stopping Sasuke’s sword mid-swing is an AP or dura feat.
Click to expand...

It's not an attack on Shin's part, and he's not tanking it. All it is is him touching the blade which has no planet level implications.

Not to mention that Shin was stabbed so easily by his clones. The Shin clones are not drastically more powerful than Sasuke.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
From different eras, with completely different context, with one proven to be legitimate.

You guys have got to stop bringing up one time things from prior parts of the series that have zero relevancy to what's being discussed at hand.
Click to expand...
GTsek said:
This is the Juubi at full power, but the Juubi even in juvenile form do what I said and are considered a bigger threat than the Code at full power
Click to expand...
A juubi weaker than the one in shippuden is considered to be above characters who should supposedly scale above the likes of hagoromo and hamura?
 
Also regarding Isshiki, wouldn't he be weaker during the fight against Sosig and Nard anyway? Like even weaker than he was supposed to? He reincarnated using a body that was at least than 10% of its own power, and even if that body was at 100% of its power he'd still be inferior to his full power.
 
LordTracer said:
How it is not intuitive- the Rinnegan itself is accepted as an amp. So Sasuke having it would be superior to Sasuke when he doesn’t have it, it’s fairly simple.
Click to expand...
I agree that it is an amp, and that its loss is a nerf. What makes you so certain that the nerf from a rested Sasuke losing the Rinnengan is more significant than Sasuke having an extraordinarily low level of Chakra that he is incapable of activating his Mangekyo?
 
Damage3245 said:
It's not an attack on Shin's part, and he's not tanking it. All it is is him touching the blade which has no planet level implications.
Click to expand...
Wha- what? Shin is not just touching the blade, he catches it while Sasuke is in the middle of swinging it and completely stops it. That’s straight up him overpowering Sasuke’s swing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Tom4t0GG789
Moon Movement 5-B to Naruto-Verse UPGRADE (Let's do this again but right :D)
4 5 6
Replies
207
Views
13K
Samlex1234
Samlex1234
Godernet
  • Locked
Hags and Kags being Divas (Naruto CRT)
2
Replies
49
Views
4K
Godernet
Godernet
Apollonir.Scale
Naruto Hax Upgrading
2 3
Replies
119
Views
12K
Arc7Kuroi
Arc7Kuroi
Stryker861
  • Locked
Awarding Boruto Many Success Achievements Via Shippuden Achievements Of Success 2.0
3 4 5
Replies
191
Views
16K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
WorldMike2B
Ōtsutsuki retcon
Replies
8
Views
3K
The_Alxhemist
The_Alxhemist
Back
Top