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My issue is that they don't have the actual feats. Shin catching Sasuke's blade isn't good enough for both him and Sakura to scale to twice as strong/tough as Madara at his peak.
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Awarding Boruto Many Success Achievements Via Shippuden Achievements Of Success
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That Borushiki that fought Code is stronger than the Borushiki that fought Sasuke. Borushiki against Boro and Sasuke was without Boruto's chakra and only had the strength to take over Boruto's body if he was exhausted and lost consciousness. But on that occasion he took the body and was not stopped by Boruto, which indicates a superiority.
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This is one of the problems with this wiki. So going against the story's lore is only an argument from incredulity?
I already excluded gaara with his sand didn't I?
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Anyone can make up narrative this narrative that, we scale off feats, plain and simple.
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thanks, only need the magnitudes statement now
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Damage, Shin catching Sasuke’s blade is not the only reason that he scales, please re-read the OP. Shin scales because Kid Shin tanked Sasuke’s Raiton with no problem, Naruto and Kurama state that they have to go all-out against Kid Shin, Shin catches Sasuke’s sword, and he harms Sasuke.
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I already addressed that point too.
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Daily reminder that Naruto never scale to a Kaguya would be, she super casually at the beginning of the fight was dealing with Naruto and Sasuke, Naruto only started doing something after she was losing power by the dimension change, and that was before her wanting to kill him after she goes to her main dimension and back to ice dimension starts destroying all of Naruto's clones and would have killed him if he hadn't used the clone trick
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the narrative is the villages got stronger over the years to combat kaguya like foes, and we see them do just that
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???
You say “that point” as if I only gave one, but I listed multiple reasons why Shin scales.
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I meant the first one you listed concerning Shin being hit by the Raiton jutsu.
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All I saw you say was that you don’t think it’s a 5-B attack, which isn’t an argument at all.
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And one more problem:
The OP uses as an argument the fact that Code is afraid to face the nerfed duo and decides to wait for the limiters to break to face them. I'll use that as an argument too.
Well, Code with Karma > Delta by declaration. But Delta faced and kept up with Naruto Rikudō... Even though he doesn't go all out, he's still MUCH stronger than his base form, and I say that because he initially faced Delta in base form but when she level up the chakra to fight seriously he immediately uses Rikudō Mode as he clearly assumes that even taking it easy, he couldn't just use his base form, which puts Delta above the base form on a massive scale. However, Code is apprehensive and apparently isn't much stronger than Naruto and Sasuke base... It doesn't make sense.
The OP uses as an argument the fact that Code is afraid to face the nerfed duo and decides to wait for the limiters to break to face them. I'll use that as an argument too.
Well, Code with Karma > Delta by declaration. But Delta faced and kept up with Naruto Rikudō... Even though he doesn't go all out, he's still MUCH stronger than his base form, and I say that because he initially faced Delta in base form but when she level up the chakra to fight seriously he immediately uses Rikudō Mode as he clearly assumes that even taking it easy, he couldn't just use his base form, which puts Delta above the base form on a massive scale. However, Code is apprehensive and apparently isn't much stronger than Naruto and Sasuke base... It doesn't make sense.
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Kurotsuchi getting one shot by a clone that was made to fight Otsutsuki isn't really an anti feat
At the beginning of the fight Naruto still briefly matched her vacuum palm before being overpowered but regardless even tho I disagree on the Teen Naruto scaling this would still scale to the Momoshiki statement inherently
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The issue here is strictly narrative intentions vs the idea of power-scaling itself.
Narratively, does it make sense these people gained this level of power? Personally, hell no.
But they did so anyway, so they satisfy the rules for scaling. Specially with (the excuses) the narrative reasons, as highlighted by Cyber.
The only real way to "debunk" these upgrades is to change how power-scaling as a whole is applied on the site. Something insanely difficult to do, but not impossible.
Until then, I agree with the OP.
Narratively, does it make sense these people gained this level of power? Personally, hell no.
But they did so anyway, so they satisfy the rules for scaling. Specially with (the excuses) the narrative reasons, as highlighted by Cyber.
The only real way to "debunk" these upgrades is to change how power-scaling as a whole is applied on the site. Something insanely difficult to do, but not impossible.
Until then, I agree with the OP.
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The level of justification used to upgrade the Sakura and the Kages and such can be used to upgrade Boruto.
For example he bruised Fused Momoshiki with his Vanishing Rasengan, which according to the anime is significantly weaker than his regular Rasengan.
He tanked a punch from Delta.
He severely damaged Ku with his Rasengan. The arc is actually in conflict with the Shikimaru Shinden novel; the novel takes places during the Mujina Bandit arc and Onoki is a supporting character and still alive, but the Mitsuki Disappearance anime arc killed Onoki before that.
Kawaki managed to intercept Delta's beam similar to Naruto.
If we accept every outlier left and right at face value, most characters would be equal to each other with no explanation. According to the novelization, Rock Lee would beat up Momoshiki due to his Taijutsu skills:
So I guess he doesn't need the Eighth Gates to beat up Madara; how do we know that Momoshiki is not physically weak and that Fused Momoshiki wasn't holding back against the Kages?
Thoughts on pre-Juubi and pre-Fruit Kaguya doing this much damage to Isshiki?
We can say that it is hax (even though Isshiki's spine is still intact, and Isshiki is said to have ran out of energy), but if so why can't we say that Shikimaru's shadow is hax that prevents the opponent from using their physical strength, or that Chojuro's attack is hax?
How would Kaguya know about the future strength of Momoshiki and Kinshiki? Their invasion would've been centuries in the future and there is no telling how much stronger they can get through eating Chakra Fruits. Also they might have hax that allows them to steal the power of other Otsutsuki.
For example he bruised Fused Momoshiki with his Vanishing Rasengan, which according to the anime is significantly weaker than his regular Rasengan.
He tanked a punch from Delta.
He severely damaged Ku with his Rasengan. The arc is actually in conflict with the Shikimaru Shinden novel; the novel takes places during the Mujina Bandit arc and Onoki is a supporting character and still alive, but the Mitsuki Disappearance anime arc killed Onoki before that.
Kawaki managed to intercept Delta's beam similar to Naruto.
If we accept every outlier left and right at face value, most characters would be equal to each other with no explanation. According to the novelization, Rock Lee would beat up Momoshiki due to his Taijutsu skills:
| “You can only release jutsu that you’ve sucked up...right?” He said, “It’s the same trickery as the Scientific Ninja Tool Division’s toy.” “In that case, we should mainly use Taijutsu and not let you suck up any jutsu.” Darui said. Gaara continued as he expanded his sand and took control of the air space. “It’s the same as Kaguya, huh.” In that case, it was a shame they hadn’t brought Rock Lee with them, but, well, it wasn’t bad to show off his taijutsu every now and then. |
Thoughts on pre-Juubi and pre-Fruit Kaguya doing this much damage to Isshiki?
We can say that it is hax (even though Isshiki's spine is still intact, and Isshiki is said to have ran out of energy), but if so why can't we say that Shikimaru's shadow is hax that prevents the opponent from using their physical strength, or that Chojuro's attack is hax?
How would Kaguya know about the future strength of Momoshiki and Kinshiki? Their invasion would've been centuries in the future and there is no telling how much stronger they can get through eating Chakra Fruits. Also they might have hax that allows them to steal the power of other Otsutsuki.
How do we know near out of Chakra Sasuke and rusty Naruto who scale to Shin don't scale below Tier 5?
So how come Hashirama and Madara (while alive), who were among the most talented Shinobi to ever exist, not achieve such physical prowess?
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The magnitudes statement is on that page
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Where is the evidence that it is a 5-B attack? If that's one of the main supports for Shin and Sakura scaling to 5-B, that is important.
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The OP explains this. Please read it.
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Naruto literally using SP BSM against shins clones, same clones being able to hurt shin, sarada and chocho being relative to said clones (all of these in BoS).
Tsuchikage being captured, her captors are also capable of no selling her jitsu that should supposedly scale to kinshiki, said captors could be matched by boruto and his friends
Mizukage getting handled by the new "seven ninja swordsmen of the mist" that could also handle his jutsu, were later defeated by boruto and his classmates.
Most of these anti feats are from the beginning of the series. The anime is canon except for some episodes that are blatantly filler. So non of these are enough to spell "anti-feats", "outlier", "inconsistency" to any of you?
Giving 6A to sakura, shin, the gokage except gaara and naruto, shikamaru, kakashi would be generous.
Tsuchikage being captured, her captors are also capable of no selling her jitsu that should supposedly scale to kinshiki, said captors could be matched by boruto and his friends
Mizukage getting handled by the new "seven ninja swordsmen of the mist" that could also handle his jutsu, were later defeated by boruto and his classmates.
Most of these anti feats are from the beginning of the series. The anime is canon except for some episodes that are blatantly filler. So non of these are enough to spell "anti-feats", "outlier", "inconsistency" to any of you?
Giving 6A to sakura, shin, the gokage except gaara and naruto, shikamaru, kakashi would be generous.
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Bro saying you can’t imagine something happening isn’t proof of anything
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See, that right there is the issue. But still, they did. That's undeniable, imo. So it is what it is.
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Because Sasuke is a 5-B… Shin takes an attack from Sasuke, so his durability scales to 5-B. It’s that simple.
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Naruto also says he would go full power against Delta but we know it wasn't true
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Based on what?
Also again, this is proving that you haven’t read the OP. Read Delta’s section and then come back to me.
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Sarada and chocho at this point can also go up against kid shin. Why don't they scale?
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Not only does Naruto admit to going all out, we literally see and get statements that he is bloodlusted and enraged.
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Because the point of discussion is just putting Sakura and the Kages at level 5-B, anyone else who has a feat is PIS, except these..
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No, they couldn’t. Neither of them harmed Kid Shin at any point (Naruto Gaiden Chapter 3).
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He himself says he took it easy, because if he had gone with full force to kill it would have been MUCH easier.
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I don't subscribe to that kind of ultra-simplified approach to powerscaling. That kind of scaling is simply ridiculous.
That's how you end up with fodder scaling to the God Tiers of the verse.
By this logic, let's make Minato to be Planetary then.
This is exactly the problem I mentioned earlier; sometimes people just assume that every punch or technique from a character is automatically their strongest move. That characters are always fighting bloodlusted with intent to kill and cause maximum damage at all times.
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That’s literally how scaling works, dude… and calling it ridiculous isn’t an argument against it.
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While I agree with you on that,
Do you have proof Sasuke would want to held back his normal power level in that instance?
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I assume you are referring to this:
| This is impressive, because as you’ll find out further down, Sasuke without his Rinnegan is still a threat to characters who scale decently into Planetary. Despite Sasuke being diminished of chakra from dimension hopping, he should be stronger with the no tomoe Rinnegan than without a Rinnegan at all. |
Sasuke |
You are scaling Shin to Nearly out of Chakra Rinnengan Sasuke
and
You are scaling Sasuke without Rinnengan but with Chakra to Nearly out of Chakra Borushiki
This scaling is controversial as people disagree on Shin and Nearly out of Chakra Borushiki being Tier 5.
Is there any inconsistency with this alternative scaling chain?
Sasuke without Rinnengan but with Chakra > Nearly out of Chakra Borushiki >Nearly out of Chakra Rinnengan Sasuke
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Damage, this point was already countered by Shadow. Bringing it up again doesn’t change anything.
You haven’t given a single reason to suggest Sasuke wasn’t trying. You’ve literally just said “I don’t think it’s 5-B” and that’s it.
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No, it isn't.
Just because a character is capable of something that powerful doesn't mean every single action or move they do carries that amount of energy. By this logic, Sasuke's weakest attacks are equal to his strongest attacks.
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That same clone soon after fights against sennin Mitsuki without having all his power and they come out matched
While Naruto was really trying she looked super casual here, But as I already explained she didn't want to kill him at that moment.
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You just said "I think it's 5-B", and that's it. You've offered zero evidence.
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Wow, the bias. It's legit for those in the OP to scale to BS inconsistency but not for others
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