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Excellent point. Shin makes a point of dodging Chocho's attack.
I guess Chocho should be Planetary too.
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Awarding Boruto Many Success Achievements Via Shippuden Achievements Of Success
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I guess Chocho should be Planetary too.
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Chojuro smacking Madara burns every cell in my body
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If they use their strongest attack and the enemy tanks it, yet then use a weaker attack and they manage to damage it, by the idea of power-scaling, it shows the weaker attacks at least downscales.
You would have to prove in this instance within the narrative that Sasuke would want to held back his normal level of power.
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You have to prove that Sasuke is going all-out.
Burden of proof is on the people claiming that Shin is 5-B.
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Pause, where are you getting him being nearly out of chakra from?
Actually, it’s more like Sasuke downscaling from his Rinnegan self because he’s still portrayed as a threat to characters on that level.
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No, Damage. The burden of proof is on YOU to prove that Sasuke was holding back/not trying/whatever else you want to come up with. Because you have not provided a single piece evidence to support your claim, you’ve just said “I don’t think it’s 5-B” and expect us to just go along with it.
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Shin can catch a stab attack from Sasuke and stab Sasuke with his MS jutsu. He objectively halts Sasuke's stab.
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If we can't agree on who has to prove what, then I don't see how we can even have a discussion about this.
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Alongside what the others said: Does he need to be going all out to be 5-B? Because that would be another entire discussion.
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I’ve already explained why it’s 5-B. Sasuke is a 5-B, there is no evidence that he’s holding back or not trying, so his attacks would be 5-B. You have not once provided a proper counter to this.
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because Chocho has a ridiculous more amount of anti feats?
why is this concept so hard for people to understand
you guys do realize if the kage had consistent feats of figthing much worse characters we wouldn't be having this discussion
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Why would Sasuke be going all-out against a random mook ambushing him in the forest? Using a Raiton jutsu could purely be for the purpose of incapacitation / stunning them. There's no reason to think he's trying to obliterate some random guy with Otsutsuki-level firepower.
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Shippuden and the Last scaling looks perfectly fine to me I think.
Looking at Boruto, I do have a disclaimer, I am a manga only reader so I'm just going off of what the Manga has provided when I say this.
I think the Kage are mostly fine to scale, though I think downscaling is the best bet for everyone besides Gaara, since he has a direct feat of blocking a hit from Fused Momoshiki. The group clearly threatens and almost damages both Momoshiki and Kinshiki (or whatever the big one's name is) multiple times throughout the brief fight and that's that.
Shikimaru, I'm generally unsure about the scaling of his shadow. I think it might actually be better to have it pegged down to lifting strength over AP since the techinque acts more like a grapple than it does a proper ap attack I think.
Sakura and Shin, I honestly see no problem with scaling them to base naruto and Sasuke since that's who they're shown to be comparable to from the images provided. Seems pretty blatant to me, and otherwise I think that might lack Anti-feats.
And Kakashi and Urashiki are simply no comment cause I don't have much of the context surrounding the pair.
Looking at Boruto, I do have a disclaimer, I am a manga only reader so I'm just going off of what the Manga has provided when I say this.
I think the Kage are mostly fine to scale, though I think downscaling is the best bet for everyone besides Gaara, since he has a direct feat of blocking a hit from Fused Momoshiki. The group clearly threatens and almost damages both Momoshiki and Kinshiki (or whatever the big one's name is) multiple times throughout the brief fight and that's that.
Shikimaru, I'm generally unsure about the scaling of his shadow. I think it might actually be better to have it pegged down to lifting strength over AP since the techinque acts more like a grapple than it does a proper ap attack I think.
Sakura and Shin, I honestly see no problem with scaling them to base naruto and Sasuke since that's who they're shown to be comparable to from the images provided. Seems pretty blatant to me, and otherwise I think that might lack Anti-feats.
And Kakashi and Urashiki are simply no comment cause I don't have much of the context surrounding the pair.
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Sasuke being 5-B is irrelevant. I'm asking for proof that his specific attack against Shin was Planet level.
If all you've got is, "Well, it could be", then that's no proof at all.
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one thing if i may, when shikamaru pins down the five kage (forcing naruto to use kurama to break out), he states he could crush their heads
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Occam's Razor should support Tracer's interpretation. Sasuke used an offensive jutsu against something he deemed a threat, unless it's explicitly shown or implied a character is holding back, we assume they're using their normal AP.
I can understand the contentions with Gaiden characters, and would personally be willing to compromise on a "possibly/likely" rating if that was satisfactory.
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Counter why wouldn't it be when planet level is his base stat.
why would sasuke arbitrary lower his attack by millions of times.
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He tanked a punch from Delta.
He severely damaged Ku with his Rasengan. The arc is actually in conflict with the Shikimaru Shinden novel; the novel takes places during the Mujina Bandit arc and Onoki is a supporting character and still alive, but the Mitsuki Disappearance anime arc killed Onoki before that.
Kawaki managed to intercept Delta's beam similar to Nar
I mean I don't understand much about the argument that he was off guard either, we've already seen the Jigen base get kicked in the face by six paths Naruto while he was off guard but he just got thrown away, the only hax that Kaguya could use are the ash bones but that would have killed him for sure, to leave him in that state it looks more like it was physical damageThe level of justification used to upgrade the Sakura and the Kages and such can be used to upgrade Boruto.
For example he bruised Fused Momoshiki with his Vanishing Rasengan, which according to the anime is significantly weaker than his regular Rasengan.
He tanked a punch from Delta.
He severely damaged Ku with his Rasengan. The arc is actually in conflict with the Shikimaru Shinden novel; the novel takes places during the Mujina Bandit arc and Onoki is a supporting character and still alive, but the Mitsuki Disappearance anime arc killed Onoki before that.
Kawaki managed to intercept Delta's beam similar to Naruto.
If we accept every outlier left and right at face value, most characters would be equal to each other with no explanation. According to the novelization, Rock Lee would beat up Momoshiki due to his Taijutsu skills:
So I guess he doesn't need the Eighth Gates to beat up Madara; how do we know that Momoshiki is not physically weak and that Fused Momoshiki wasn't holding back against the Kages?
“You can only release jutsu that you’ve sucked up...right?” He said, “It’s the same trickery as the Scientific Ninja Tool Division’s toy.”
“In that case, we should mainly use Taijutsu and not let you suck up any jutsu.” Darui said.
Gaara continued as he expanded his sand and took control of the air space. “It’s the same as Kaguya, huh.”
In that case, it was a shame they hadn’t brought Rock Lee with them, but, well, it wasn’t bad to show off his taijutsu every now and then.
Thoughts on pre-Juubi and pre-Fruit Kaguya doing this much damage to Isshiki?
We can say that it is hax (even though Isshiki's spine is still intact, and Isshiki is said to have ran out of energy), but if so why can't we say that Shikimaru's shadow is hax that prevents the opponent from using their physical strength, or that Chojuro's attack is hax?
How would Kaguya know about the future strength of Momoshiki and Kinshiki? Their invasion would've been centuries in the future and there is no telling how much stronger they can get through eating Chakra Fruits. Also they might have hax that allows them to steal the power of other Otsutsuki.
How do we know near out of Chakra Sasuke and rusty Naruto who scale to Shin don't scale below Tier 5?
So how come Hashirama and Madara (while alive), who were among the most talented Shinobi to ever exist, not achieve such physical prowess?
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Why would Sasuke attack a random guy with Planet level power?
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Tbf Naruto saw this rando and went "I better use my full power" so it's not that far fetched.
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also based Wiki standards we assume they they using the potency of their base stat unless specified or greater context is given.
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Damage, you trying to “argue” that his Raiton isn’t 5-B literally goes against how powerscaling is done on the site. Sasuke’s attack potency is 5-B, therefore his attacks are 5-B.
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Wow, I'm waiting for all of this to get accepted so I can destroy VSB wiki as a whole.
Can't wait for 5B BoS (himawari, boruto, chocho, mitsuki, hanabi, konohamaru, literally every fcking kid in the series).
I don't know why you're making a point of shin stabbing sasuke with his scalpels considering how inconsistent durability is portrayed in series when slashing, piercing attacks are involved.
Except you have some kind of armor, forcefield covering your skin, any child is capable of harming the likes of naruto and sasuke with a common kunai bar the otsutsuki as they clearly have some kind of tough skin.
Can't wait for 5B BoS (himawari, boruto, chocho, mitsuki, hanabi, konohamaru, literally every fcking kid in the series).
I don't know why you're making a point of shin stabbing sasuke with his scalpels considering how inconsistent durability is portrayed in series when slashing, piercing attacks are involved.
Except you have some kind of armor, forcefield covering your skin, any child is capable of harming the likes of naruto and sasuke with a common kunai bar the otsutsuki as they clearly have some kind of tough skin.
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I don't accept that as being a wiki standard. Where is it stated on the wiki that we have to do that?
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because it's his base power why would he lower it when he intends to injure or kill.
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As I said, this right here is the problem. But I digress at this point.
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I'm not everyone else on this entire site. I can only argue based on my own perspective.
My own perspective says that it is a drastic high-end to assume that Sasuke attack this guy with Planet level AP with no solid basis.
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"Base power" is such a nothing term. Nowhere in the verse is it implied that the minimum amount of effort Sasuke puts into his jutsu automatically produces a 5-B attack.
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That still shows a level of relativity but regardless again I'll just agree to disagree as the only thing I want to hear is arguments for why she doesn't scale to ETSO when the implication is she was already using that chakra
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Again I'd be fine with compromising on "likely/possibly" ratings on the more contentious characters.
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And my perspective is that you’re needlessly asserting that the 5-B character isn’t attacking with 5-B force and not providing a single piece of evidence to support that.
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You're entitled to your own opinion. I don't expect to change it.
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I don't care for some of the characters like the Kage anymore. I've accepted I've lost on them.
I just don't think that Shin or Sakura should get those ratings at all based on the current evidence.
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then you would have to completely change our standard for powerscaling.
you could never powerscale 99% of any character on the wiki unless they have direct statments with super specific details, you can never assume they are giving it their 100%
you cant even do this for punches and kicks as the amount of force someone actually output varies, someones first punch could be weaker than their second ect
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i find this sasuke argument so weird
sasuke was willing to go for a killing blow on sarada when he hadnt even figured out she was his daughter. Sasuke holding back his power tiers is ridiculous, in where theres an enemy who can be a threat to sarada and with naruto present
sasuke was willing to go for a killing blow on sarada when he hadnt even figured out she was his daughter. Sasuke holding back his power tiers is ridiculous, in where theres an enemy who can be a threat to sarada and with naruto present
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I'm fine with that.
The ultra-laidback casual approach to powerscaling is too vague and shitty for my liking.
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then go ahead and make a CRT
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You might be, but that’s not how the wiki as a whole works, and doesn’t work as a counter to the evidence presented.
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That's quite the exaggeration tho.
It's 100% possible, it would simply require better analysis and evaluation.
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