Avengers: Endgame - Another Discussion Thread! SPOILERS!!!

[ArkhamDC06]

I hope so. At least they won't alter Deadpool for now. We'll see how the Ghost Rider series turn out but i hope we'll get Mesphisto or Lucifer.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

BTW, can we take that horrible Thanos pic off his MCU profile and edit this one on:

 

[AKM sama]

You can request it for rendering here.

 

[Dziga]

I mean he only holds the Infinity Gauntlet for a very brief period in Endgame, would be great if there was an image of him without it for a more proper representation.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

So where are we with the Gauntlet problem ?

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

He could have reversed Thanos in time to the point where he is an infant or lock him in a time loop.

I feel like the reality stone could potentially counteract the reverrsal from the time stone. It controls perception and aspects of reality, I'm pretty sure he could rapidly age his body to sort of negate it.

It'd be kind of hard for Strange to do so in combat too, he is a glass cannon. The moment he sees the green runes activate from the stone he'd likely just portal away or create a doppelganger like he did with Starlord.

Time loop is a really shitty idea. Thanos has a higher chance of snagging the stone and ending it compared to Strange finding a winning strat/combo.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Yeah, but the younger Thanos becomes, the more likely he isn't going to be able to use the Infinity Gauntlet at all.

And best option would be just to Time Stop and take off the gauntlet as soon as he appeared.


Time Loop is a bad idea though.

 

[Wokistan]

If he tried the time stop thing it'd just turn out Thanos resists or something. One of those implied resistances that we don't put on the file but are probably in place.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

I realized time loop wouldn't work on Thanos because he's not beyond the concept of time like Dormamu. He wouldn't change up his actions and therefore neither would Strange. It would just be an ultimate stalemate.

 

[Warren_Valion]

If he tried the time stop thing it'd just turn out Thanos resists or something. One of those implied resistances that we don't put on the file but are probably in place.

Yeah, but stuff like that should be shown.

 

[Wokistan]

Talking about narratively. Considering he precogged into all those futures I'm gonna think he did that in at least some of those and it still wasn't ideal, but there can be more than one reason for that.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Talking about narratively. Considering he precogged into all those futures I'm gonna think he did that in at least some of those and it still wasn't ideal, but there can be more than one reason for that.

Possibly, but that should still be conveyed to the audience.

Like, have Tony sarcastically asks why doesn't Stange just use the Time Stone when they are making a plan against him, and then have Strange say that for whatever reason, Thanos seems to be unaffected by the Time stones powers. Which would still be bullshit since it worked against Dormammu, but at least they would have shown to us, the audience, why such an obvious solution wouldn't work.

Same thing with the whole portal-cutting-hand-off idea, they could have shown Strange trying and Thanos using the Space stone to keep the portal open so his hand doesn't get cut off. A simple fix, but never shown.

I as a viewer, shouldn't have to apply headcanon for the actions of characters in a scene for that scene to make logical sense.

Or at least, I don't think that I should. Maybe I have grown entitled and supercilious.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

" Which would still be bullshit since it worked against Dormammu"

I mean, I feel like that would be worse unless it was a good explanation.

 

[Warren_Valion]

" Which would still be bullshit since it worked against Dormammu"
I mean, I feel like that would be worse unless it was a good explanation.

Random resistances exist in fiction, nothing that really can help that.


I just want a reason why characters who are intelligent don't use common sense to fix their problems.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

They get the Gauntlet off Thanos. Turns out he had a smaller gauntlet with the real stones in it underneath.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The greatest weakness for comic book characters isn't kryptonite, sharp objects, or even the plot. But character induced stupidity.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

The greatest weakness for comic book characters isn't kryptonite, sharp objects, or even the plot. But character induced stupidity.

Isn't that the greatest weakness for character in fiction itself ? lol

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sure, but comic book characters get hit with the stupid stick way more and way worse than most other genres. Flash has been KO'ed by falling children, an ice skater, and whales rocking a boat due to being really stupid.

 

[Jasonsith]

Sure, but comic book characters get hit with the stupid stick way more and way worse than most other genres. Flash has been KO'ed by falling children, an ice skater, and whales rocking a boat due to being really stupid.

These are already plot-induced stupidity.

Plot armor is another powerful weapon by the writer, just works in the opposite direction.

 

[Qawsedf234]

PiS is just stuff happening for reasons so the plot can move forward. Character induced stupidity is just them being really dumb. Flash is just really bad with his speed a lot of the times.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Input here would be useful

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3017359#2

 

[MasterOfArda]

I thought it was medicore. It was entertaining in the movie theater, but once you got a moment to think about, it started to falll apart. The insanity of time travel, plus the god awful tactics at the end made it hard to really appreiciate. I felt much of the humor didn't land. Hulk didn't smash, Iron Man hardly used his suit, Hawkeye didn't shoot an arrow, Black Widow didn't fight, and Thor was a fat fool.

 

[Huesito88]

With a axe =P

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I really liked the movie but to me, the main problems were : Thor (until the final battle where he became a little badass anew), Hulk, humor (most of the times, i actually laughed at some jokes), Captain Marvel and the problems with Time Travel.

So i guess Thanos Full Gauntlet will stay "At least 5-A, likely far higher".

 

[MasterOfArda]

I also found the tactics at the final battle made it really difficult to be invested in. Captain Marvel could have been a lot worse to be fair.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Honestly, the tactics didn't bothered me. What bothered me was the fact that we didn't have a scene with all the heroes at once against Thanos at the same time. Even with him having only one Stone, it would have been fine to me.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Honestly, the tactics didn't bothered me. What bothered me was the fact that we didn't have a scene with all the heroes at once against Thanos at the same time. Even with him having only one Stone, it would have been fine to me.

That would have been overkill and anticlimactic.

 

[MasterOfArda]

I think Nebula should have been the one to use the Infinity Gauntlet. That's what really bothered me. Plus, not only owuld all heroes on Thanos be overkill, they were combined so strong that Thanos' army really stood no chance. They was really very little stakes.

 

[AKM sama]

People don't care much about Nebula. Making The Hulk and Iron Man use it was a good decision.

A lot of Thor fans are mad, but I liked fat Thor. He was more comedic, and we already got badass Thor in IW. I appreciate them for taking risks and doing something different with their characters.

 

[Warren_Valion]

See, when I saw Thor cut off Thanos's head - I was expecting Thor to become like Kratos from GoW.

Vengful and angry at Fate for robbing him of the chance to save the little family that he has left.

I wanted to see him rip of 2014 Thanos's head with his barehands, or do anything really gratuitous and violent. Sort of like Hawkeye's arc in this movie.

That's what I envisioned when watching the movie initially.


Then I remember my friend telling me about Fat Thor the day previous, and then I saw Fat Thor, and all my hopes were dashed for what I found failed comic relief that was only sort of saved with some good character development.

 

[AKM sama]

What you're talking about should have happened from the beginning of IW, not Endgame. But Thor was never like that. It would've been extremely out of character for him.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Sir Ovens Not to me and apparently, many people agree with this.

AKM sama Fat-Thor is extremely out of character. I understand what they wanted to do but there was other ways to do it. What we've got was just bad.

 

[Dziga]

You guys are talking like Odinforce or Runeking Thor won't become a thing in the MCU, just for for the Chad God's return to glory.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Fat Thor was not so much bad, as out of place for me. Here, you have this climactic finale. All your heroes are lined up. Lose ends will be tied. People will die.

Then you have this fat bloke, a complete shadow of his former self prancing about doing practically nothing for the whole movie until the end, where he is upstaged by a shoehorned hero who wasn't there for 90% of the movie that plays the exact same role he did in Infinity War.

If it wasn't for the talk with his mother, I would have been severly disappointed with him in the movie. Seriously, that scene was very cute.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Personally I like Thicc-Thor, the idea of Thor becoming overly aggressive and violent doesn't sound so interesting when u consider it's such a cliche in media in general plus all we'd be seeing is Hawkeye's arc done twice in the span of the same movie. Thor as a character has quite frankly since Ragnarok been the most comedic of the founding six- comedic with proper bits of good character development- endgame just continues that trend but instead makes all the comedy feel sad, while still giving him badass moments and solid character development.

I also quite like Professor Hulk- the power to level a city and yet whenever he came across an issue he was always the most level headed and the one who wanted to talk things out. As a massive Hulk fan the absence of the world breaker is saddening but I got "chill dude Hulk" so I'm good.

 

[Warren_Valion]

What you're talking about should have happened from the beginning of IW, not Endgame. But Thor was never like that. It would've been extremely out of character for him.

A character changing can be apart of character growth, or in this case, their "fall". Just because they haven't shown to act or be a certain way in the past, doesn't mean they can't be different in the future.

And I found Thor in IW to be desperately optimistic, which made me feel like Thor's final and biggest failure would have been the perfect push he needed to become truly jaded.


Let me explain how I saw it (or wanted to see it):

Thor had staked everything he had into stopping and killing Thanos and because of that he couldn't focus on his despair at losing his family and home, hell, you could see that at the start of Endgame. Thor was in the corner of each shot thinking about one thing - killing Thanos and making amends for his biggest failure (and thus all of his previous failures as well).

When he went to kill Thanos, his hopes were dashed and their confrontation was lackluster. Thor wouldn't be able to save those he loved and he wouldn't be able to have the fight he felt like he deserved - the fight that Fate robbed him of.

I felt that in Thor's mind, with every punch he gave and took to Thanos, he was accepting a punishment for his failures and then rectifying them simultaneously. And so seeing Thanos, the man that embodies his failures be so weak and feeble - Thor just couldn't take it any more and his anger explodes, he immediately cuts of Thanos's head mid-dramatic speech and walks away to lament on the hand he was dealt in life.

And with said refelction, Thor finds that his anger never fades. Every act or word he has used to keep himself or other from falling into despair - to give someone hope - is gone. And so, he spends the next five years scowering the galaxy reveling in animalistic desires like fighting/killing, consuming copious amounts of alcohol, and bedding alien women.

Once the time travel plan is established, the other Avengers would go out to the most populated areas of the galaxy and try and find him, not finding it difficult due to the reputation he has earned for himself, gaining the moniker 'Einherjar' (Old Norse for "those who fight alone"). They walk into an alien bar where they find a drunk Thor stumbling over himself.

They confront him and tell him of their plans. He rejects them as he is to engulfed in his own misery that the shine of any ray of Hope scares him. Then Banner would come in, slap Thor in the face, and give him sort of speech that rekindles something in Thor. Thor would then agree in acquiescence to go to the past and stop the snap.

At this point, the second act would be just like how it is for Thor except without the constant joke that Thor is fat - he would still feel the fear of how inevitable his failures are run away from his role, he'd still meet up with his mother, and his mother will still inspire him to be the hero she knew he could be.

And for Thor's conclusion, I would have liked an epic fight between him and Thanos. Titan verses God. Thor would have gotten the fight he always wanted and in a blaze of fire (or lightinging in this case) Thor would die taking out Thanos with a simile on his face, knowning that he could do at least one thing right in a life of failures.

There would then be a viking-like funeral with an epitaph: "Here lies Thor, Son of Odin, the Strongest Avenger and the conqueror of Fate" Or something like that.


I don't know really, I am making this up on the spot.

What I can say that I really wanted was just a satsfiying conclusion for characters like Thor and the Hulk - but I felt that they didn't get such a worthwhile ending and thus I found them to be some of my biggest disappointments with the movie.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Fat Thor was not so much bad, as out of place for me. Here, you have this climactic finale. All your heroes are lined up. Lose ends will be tied. People will die.
Then you have this fat bloke, a complete shadow of his former self prancing about doing practically nothing for the whole movie until the end, where he is upstaged by a shoehorned hero who wasn't there for 90% of the movie that plays the exact same role he did in Infinity War.

If it wasn't for the talk with his mother, I would have been severly disappointed with him in the movie. Seriously, that scene was very cute.

Yeah, I feel like you articulated my thoughts better than I did.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Personally I like Thicc-Thor, the idea of Thor becoming overly aggressive and violent doesn't sound so interesting when u consider it's such a cliche in media in general plus all we'd be seeing is Hawkeye's arc done twice in the span of the same movie.

Well Hawkeye's arc would obviously be changed so it wouldn't be such a similar thing to what I felt Thor's should have been.

 

[Davidsteel1]

Well Hawkeye's arc would obviously be changed so it wouldn't be such a similar thing to what I felt Thor's should have been.

Y should Hawkeyes arc be the one that gets changed to accommodate Thor?

Make no mistake I realise that Thor is a fan-favourite and hence everyone wants him to be great 100% of the time, but it shouldn't be so much so that they have to work other characters arcs around his.

Hawkeye was solid in the movie and his arc I felt was rather well done- though it could have done with more screen time but it's already a 3hour movie. Thor's arc while not universally loved still gave him solid character development while avoiding treading too familiar grounds.

 

[AKM sama]

You can never make everyone happy.