[MCU] Canon to the Comics/High 1-B Meta. Massively controversial topic

[DivineAura44]

We all know that authors statements can contradicts their own story.

I'm not denying this but this can apply to every author statement in existence and would undermine just about every statement in the wiki.
If two things are said by an author and neither logically contradict each other, we assume that both are correct. Not that one is just incorrect because we don't agree with the conclusion.

 

[Naeem0304]

I disagree.
Both Marvel Comics and MCU works differently and all the evidence are just taking things out of context by saying Marvel comics editors and Kelvin Feige are working together so they are canon.

1. The timeline's don't function under the same rules/logic. The Sacred Timeline was isolated from the other timelines during the Multiversal War, with He Who Remain's saying "Once I isolated our timeline, all I had to do was manage the flow of time and prevent any further branches."
2. Different functions on timelines have been shown in What If; the Infinity Crusher from Gamora's timeline was useless against Infinity Ultron's stones because they weren't from the same universe.
3. How is "all the evidence taking things out of context" if the Spider-Gwen comic is a canonical addition to the MCU? Her comic line starts up 2014, consistently travels to 616, and has the latter parts of her journey as MCU-canon.

1. Eternals were engineered genetically by the Celestials, while MCU version were "created".
2. Thor in Love and Thunder entering Eternity's realm of which by comics standard unless you are some sort of Higher level being or Nexus being, you can't enter.

1. Different timeline.

1. Yggdrasil in Marvel Comics are planes of existence and it's High 1-B to 1-A. They exist in all multiverse. MCU Yggdrasil are just planet or small realms that aren't Infinite. Asgard and other god realms are High plane of existence while MCU Asgard isn't.

1. Again, different timeline + the original Yggdrasil is called "multi-dimensional" from the Art of Thor 1.

1. Every Earth in Marvel Comics is a aspect of Eternity. Also, all Celestials in Marvel Comics do not have separate multiversal counterparts. Each Celestial exists across the Multiverse simultaneously as a single being split among interconnected aspects. They were also created by the First Firmament. They shattered the first firmament into the first multiverse, and began the multiversal cycles. The Celestials are involved in the creation of "new universes", including the Prime Marvel Universe. MCU celestials were not shown that way.
2. We also have events in Marvel comics relating to the First cosmos, second cosmos.... to seventh cosmos etc. None of those were references in the MCU.
3. How The IG works. (MCU IG damaging the wearer and comics own not damaging the wearer. MCU IG not working under UES, while MCU own work under UES.
4. Events of people recreating the Marvel comic Multiverse and MCU made no reference to that.

1. Amazing argument for point 1.
2. Different timeline for points 2,3 and 4.

We need in-verse evidence from MCU and Marvel comics. i.e Al Ewing, Hickman or any other Marvel Comic writers would reference Loki affecting the timeline, or any other MCU events or Secret Wars or Incursion event would be stated to affect MCU.

How are we not sure that the "616" is just MCU's own version and We all know that authors statements can contradicts their own story.

1. How does the TVA comic not qualify for Loki affecting the timeline given what the excerpt's state about it?
2. How would this make sense if there are multiple statements pointing to it being the "main" comics universe?
3. "We all know that authors statements can contradict their own story" is about the biggest issue the Marvel Comics has. It's 'canon' is all over the place.

Anyways, we'd need to be definitive proof that:
1. This is canon.
2. This is non-canon.

 

[noninho]

Yeah
Like show us which events contradict this, for example
Or do like OP and show us some interviews, tweet comments, comic pages and etc

Edit: so far I have seen logic in the OP proposition, but won't be agreeing yet as I really think there could be inconsistencies brought by Ant or other very very knowledgeable members in Marvel Comics, and we should look at them before deciding if this linking is possible

 

[Naeem0304]

And as a reminder, comics events couldn't affect the Sacred Timeline because of their isolation. The only reason as to how Gwen was able to travel to comics-616 once more was with the help of the MCU's TVA.

And of course, the TVA would not be affected by comic events because it exists outside of time and space.

Lastly, the official MCU Cosmology page on our wiki cites the Marvel Website as canon source for information. Therefore, we'd also need to somehow debunk the Marvel Website's confirmation of the TVA and Kahhori Comics being canon to both the MCU/616-comics.

 

[noninho]

And as a reminder, comics events couldn't affect the Sacred Timeline because of their isolation.

Wait so h1-A One Who Remains?

 

[Eseseso]

The MCU is different from Marvel cosmology-wise in nearly every way.

HARD NO

 

[Naeem0304]

Another source from Marvel.com:

A Guide to the Many Marvel Multiverses​

Here are some of the most important alternate worlds in the Marvel Multiverse!​

Earth-616: The Prime Universe​

The 616 universe may sound like just another timeline, but it’s by far the most important world of them all. Earth-616 is the Marvel Universe as we know it, and its legacy stretches back to 1939. While the rolling timeline keeps things modern, the 616 universe has continued uninterrupted since the launch of FANTASTIC FOUR #1 in 1961.

Earth-65​

On almost every Earth, Peter Parker is Spider-Man. But one of the biggest exceptions is Earth-65, the home of Spider-Woman. We know her better as Spider-Gwen, the alternate Gwen Stacy who has headlined her own ongoing series. Spider-Gwen still pops into the 616 universe on occasion, now with the codename “Ghost-Spider.”

• Spider-Gwen still "pops into the 616 universe on occasion", and this was written in 2019; approx. 4 years before the Web of Spider-Man comic, in which O.B. and the MCU's TVA sent her back to 616 for one last chance at a home timeline. This is, once again, confirming that Spider-Gwen went to the actual 616 universe.

That's 4 Marvel.Com sources that allude to MCU-Comics being intertwined.

---

Creating What If...?, Inside the TVA, and More!​

(Here's the video link)

Interviewer: Yeah, can you tell us a little bit more about that, like who are these characters and where exactly in their do we find them. (In regards to Blair saying that the TVA is full of new people)

Katharyn Blair: They are characters that either don't have a timeline to return to, which we saw in the end of season two, there was an instance where a lot of these timelines got pruned, right. Blown up actually. So they don't have a place to go. So the question is whether or not they want to be rehomed, go somewhere else, find a completely different timeline, find a different, you know, reality for all we know with the MCU but they have chosen instead to stay here (TVA) and try and protect what's left and putting it all in this little Brigade of people who are just trying to keep freedom alive which is really cool. So we have Gambit, and this is a version of Gambit who didn't manage to save Rogue, so he's dealing with his own wounds. And then we have Spider-Gwen, Gwen Stacy, who is unable to return to her timeline, her timeline is still there but it's unable to accommodate her anymore, which is something that's explored in her most recent run, we also have Jimmy Hudson from the Ultimate Universe who is Wolverine's son so that's kind of a fun thing to play with in the TVA. And then we have Captain Carter who kind of comes and goes. She's one of the leaders of the team so she's very boots on the ground in various timelines to make sure things are protected. And we have B15 who we saw in Deadpool and Wolverine, kind of in her new suit, rocking it, has her own office now, so she's helping lead them all, so this team is just trying to honor Loki's sacrifice and trying to find a purpose in their own lives, because like, how do you find a purpose when you have no home, so trying to make a home out of wreckage, out of ashes, out of nothing is kind of a beautiful thing...

• "Find a completely different timeline, find a different, you know, reality for all we know with the MCU but they have chosen instead to stay here" while mentioning the fact that Gwen could not return to her timeline (which is comics 65) because of the issues she caused. Based on this wording, the comics seems to be a part of the MCU.

---

For The Art of Deadpool and Wolverine, they showed a scene in which Deadpool would be hopping across multiverses until getting into the MCU. Andy Park, who was a Marvel Comics cover artist, was the visual development supervisor for the movie. This is what his instagram post says about the scene:

In my last post I was honoring my 1st boss (& creator of Deadpool) in @robliefeld This post I show you how I honored MANY comic book legends during preproduction on working on the DEADPOOL AND WOLVERINE film before there was even a script. I pitched a fun idea where Deadpool would jump through multiverses and arrive at the MCU, Marvel COMICS Universe! And each character would exist in the art style of a legendary comic book artist. Each who have inspired me greatly!

And this is what the actual Art Book of Deadpool and Wolverine said:

Very early on in development , Andy Park created a visual sequence to sell the concept of Deadpool arriving in the Marvel Cinematic Universe . " In the VisDev department , we work on things so early , even before preproduction , " Park says . " Sometimes we're just doing high - level Ideation , blue - sky designs . There was no script - we didn't know what the movie was going to be about . The minimal information we had was that there was going to be some multiversal component , because obviously Deadpool is from a different universe . I came up with one idea that could be in the movie or could be used for marketing . My pitch was a black screen , then the text ' Deadpool enters the MCU , but it goes to this comic book image . And a caption says , ' Marvel Comics Universe , and you see Deadpool swearing , but there's this Comics Code Authority seal covering it up . Because of my background as a Marvel Comics fan and then eventually as a comic book artist , I had to pay homage to my roots with this - so , Captain America is drawn in a Jack Kirby style , Black Widow is drown in a Jim Lee style , Thor is a Walter Simonson style ; Hulk , Sal Buscema ; Iron Man , Mark Bright / Bob Layton ; Hawkeye , John Byrne , and Deadpool , of course , is Rob Liefeld . And , in my pitch , the screen goes to black again , and the text says , " Deadpool enters the MCRU - ond it's revealed as the Marvel Comics Realistic Universe , with this Alex Ross painting that I added Deadpool to . Because , before the movies , Alex Ross was as close as you could get to realism . And Deadpool's in the corner , saying , ' Almost , but not quite . ' And then , finally , we have ' Deadpool enters the Marvel Cinematic Universe , ' and it goes to the iconic shot of the Avengers in the New York bottle , all looking up at the Chitouri , with Deadpool in there , saying , " That's more like it ! It was just a fun idea to convey the concept of Deadpool universe - hopping and how there are a million different ways that Deadpool could come into this universe . It really got the imaginations of everyone firing and thinking up crazy things that could happen with this character in the MCU . "

 

[Naeem0304]

It's likely the MCU exists in the omniverse (which would make the most sense.)

 

[noninho]

I really think we gotta see something more than "no cuz we know so"

 

[noninho]

We also have events in Marvel comics relating to the First cosmos, second cosmos.... to seventh cosmos etc. None of those were references in the MCU.

Events of people recreating the Marvel comic Multiverse and MCU made no reference to that.

What If nobody makes a reference because people who knew about those facts were killed when One Who Remains took away all timelines? He could know about those facts but as he has a severe menace to his plans so that's not something that he will be telling Loki or smth.
Which brings me to my other point: What if this is just what we see on one of the infinite branches of the last cosmos, the one that didn't get reseted yet? If it was as OP defends (One Who Remains deffended them from this/those resets) he would FOR SURE tell Loki and Sylvie about this (and Loki would probably have a harder time to discover the truth behind his bs) so he either deffended the TL and doesn't know he did or he just didn't and they're a product of the latest reset. I repeat that if he knew about those resets, he would** say and it's very likely nobody knows cuz nobody survived it (and those who did like idk, celestials and this TL's Beyonder were attending other matters to have time to on-screen mention it) or nobody passed through those/this event

 

[DivineCreator389]

Uhmm, this may explain why the MCU and Marvel Comics have different cosmologies:

In Marvel cosmology they have something called ‘ the Megaverse ’ , which contains various Multiverses, each with its own concepts and cosmologies.

 

[Excellence616]

1. The timeline's don't function under the same rules/logic. The Sacred Timeline was isolated from the other timelines during the Multiversal War, with He Who Remain's saying "Once I isolated our timeline, all I had to do was manage the flow of time and prevent any further branches."
2. Different functions on timelines have been shown in What If; the Infinity Crusher from Gamora's timeline was useless against Infinity Ultron's stones because they weren't from the same universe.
3. How is "all the evidence taking things out of context" if the Spider-Gwen comic is a canonical addition to the MCU? Her comic line starts up 2014, consistently travels to 616, and has the latter parts of her journey as MCU-canon.

HWR isolating the timeline. So he is now powerful enough to hide timelines from the likes of Eternity, Living Tribunal etc

Different timelines work in sense of Entities and Laws, history etc.

1. Different timeline.

Even alternate earths in Marvel comics share history of characters. Different timelines should discredit Eternals as robot like while Alternate earths in Marvel Comics take them as engineered beings

1. Again, different timeline + the original Yggdrasil is called "multi-dimensional" from the Art of Thor 1.

That doesn't debunk that claim

1. Amazing argument for point 1.
2. Different timeline for points 2,3 and 4.

1. How does the TVA comic not qualify for Loki affecting the timeline given what the excerpt's state about it?

Because we have nothing in any other Comic book apart from TVA that say anything about Loki holding comic 616 along with the MCU. Heck, any Multiversal events or threat draws the awareness of Abstract

2. How would this make sense if there are multiple statements pointing to it being the "main" comics universe?

Without using any comics book influenced by MCU (which mainly focus on Loki, kahhori) show me evidence.

Two separate continuity came together and made a Comicbook and automatically they are canon as if Fortnite doesn't have same thing.

Canon works when two continuity works together without any contradiction of any kind.

3. "We all know that authors statements can contradict their own story" is about the biggest issue the Marvel Comics has. It's 'canon' is all over the place.

There is a difference.

Marvel Comics is written by different writers and doesn't follow an actual plot point since story tends to span different ideas.

MCU films and tv shows are connected. Phase 1 to 3 tends to focus on Thanos and Infinity wars. Comic

Nothing canon.

And as a reminder, comics events couldn't affect the Sacred Timeline because of their isolation. The only reason as to how Gwen was able to travel to comics-616 once more was with the help of the MCU's TVA..

So the MCU is above Eternity when every universe, doesn't matter what timeline, are part of Eternity. So all of a sudden someone can hide Eternity's aspect from himself?

And of course, the TVA would not be affected by comic events because it exists outside of time and space.

Are there not realms that exist outside of space time in Marvel Comics and still be affected by Events.

Marvel Comics Abstract exist above Space Time

Lastly, the official MCU Cosmology page on our wiki cites the Marvel Website as canon source for information. Therefore, we'd also need to somehow debunk the Marvel Website's confirmation of the TVA and Kahhori Comics being canon to both the MCU/616-comics.

Yes because that is general site for Marvel Universe in general in respective of Continuity.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

hard disagree mcu and marvel cosmologies are vastly different

 

[Naeem0304]

HWR isolating the timeline. So he is now powerful enough to hide timelines from the likes of Eternity, Living Tribunal etc

Different timelines work in sense of Entities and Laws, history etc.


Even alternate earths in Marvel comics share history of characters. Different timelines should discredit Eternals as robot like while Alternate earths in Marvel Comics take them as engineered beings

That doesn't debunk that claim

Because we have nothing in any other Comic book apart from TVA that say anything about Loki holding comic 616 along with the MCU. Heck, any Multiversal events or threat draws the awareness of Abstract

Without using any comics book influenced by MCU (which mainly focus on Loki, kahhori) show me evidence.

Two separate continuity came together and made a Comicbook and automatically they are canon as if Fortnite doesn't have same thing.

Canon works when two continuity works together without any contradiction of any kind.

There is a difference.

Marvel Comics is written by different writers and doesn't follow an actual plot point since story tends to span different ideas.

MCU films and tv shows are connected. Phase 1 to 3 tends to focus on Thanos and Infinity wars. Comic

Nothing canon.

So the MCU is above Eternity when every universe, doesn't matter what timeline, are part of Eternity. So all of a sudden someone can hide Eternity's aspect from himself?

Are there not realms that exist outside of space time in Marvel Comics and still be affected by Events.

Marvel Comics Abstract exist above Space Time

Yes because that is general site for Marvel Universe in general in respective of Continuity.

1. Nowhere was that implied. He Who Remain's isolated the timeline by separating it from other timelines and cutting off branches to the multiverse.

2. True.

3. Is it possible for the Omniverse to occupy the MCU since it accommodates for multiverses with any possibility.

4. Yup, I know

5. To be fair, the Kahhori and TVA comics flagged themselves as "MCU to comics" crossover, so it's a new concept.

6. The basis of my evidence was through MCU influence on the comic books (which shows both MCU and 616 material.) I guess if you meant non-MCU collaborative work, then you've got the Young Avengers visiting the MCU in one of their comic lines from 2016 and the SHIELD comic where MCU Howard the Duck was featured.

7. Difference being, this material was registered as MCU canon with the Spider-Gwen stuff going into comics 616 and making that canon to the MCU.

8. Fair.

9. True.

10. (Eternity comment) Nothing like that was said, given the fact that MCU Eternity exists within the Sacred Timeline and called the living embodiment of the universe.

11. Likely.

12. True.

13. And that continuity would be reliable information throughout the website.

Stand proud, @Excellence616, you've cooked 100% (Thank you for the great input and chill responses)

 

[Sasuke431]

Without using any comics book influenced by MCU (which mainly focus on Loki, kahhori) show me evidence.

Venom War: Deadpool Vol 1 3, Edge of Spider-Verse Vol 4 4, Spider-Society #1

Interesting fact: Margo's last name was not established in her initial appearance. Her creator Nilah Magruder was only asked to provide one after learning that she would featured in the movie, mere months before the release of Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse.

Post in thread 'MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread'

Dec 29, 2024

In this post, I'll compile news about the MCU and comic book crossovers


At 11:40 Katharyn Blair (Loki Season Two co-writer) specifically says that it was an exec at Marvel who had an idea to do a TVA comic, but that it was Jordan D. White, Marvel Comics editor who listened to her pitch and let her run with it.

I love this idea,” shared Feige. “It’s just as cool for us to see our work in comics as it is to bring the work of comic book creators to the big screen.

The Marvel.com article also specifically mentions that Feige approved the...

• Sasuke431

• 

 

[Excellence616]

Another source from Marvel.com:

• Spider-Gwen still "pops into the 616 universe on occasion", and this was written in 2019; approx. 4 years before the Web of Spider-Man comic, in which O.B. and the MCU's TVA sent her back to 616 for one last chance at a home timeline. This is, once again, confirming that Spider-Gwen went to the actual 616 universe.

That's 4 Marvel.Com sources that allude to MCU-Comics being intertwined.

---

Creating What If...?, Inside the TVA, and More!​

(Here's the video link)

"TVA is really especial as it connects directly to the MCU"
"Using comic interpretation to show what happened after Loki Season 2" and "Comic iteration of TVA"


Even marvel games and cartoon series have comicbook.

A TV series having a comicbook ≠ Marvel Comic Continuity canon

• "Find a completely different timeline, find a different, you know, reality for all we know with the MCU but they have chosen instead to stay here" while mentioning the fact that Gwen could not return to her timeline (which is comics 65) because of the issues she caused. Based on this wording, the comics seems to be a part of the MCU.

---

Why would Marvel Comics be part of MCU when MCU is based on Marvel Comics

For The Art of Deadpool and Wolverine, they showed a scene in which Deadpool would be hopping across multiverses until getting into the MCU. Andy Park, who was a Marvel Comics cover artist, was the visual development supervisor for the movie. This is what his instagram post says about the scene:

And this is what the actual Art Book of Deadpool and Wolverine said:

Very early on in development , Andy Park created a visual sequence to sell the concept of Deadpool arriving in the Marvel Cinematic Universe . " In the VisDev department , we work on things so early , even before preproduction , " Park says . " Sometimes we're just doing high - level Ideation , blue - sky designs . There was no script - we didn't know what the movie was going to be about . The minimal information we had was that there was going to be some multiversal component , because obviously Deadpool is from a different universe . I came up with one idea that could be in the movie or could be used for marketing . My pitch was a black screen , then the text ' Deadpool enters the MCU , but it goes to this comic book image . And a caption says , ' Marvel Comics Universe , and you see Deadpool swearing , but there's this Comics Code Authority seal covering it up . Because of my background as a Marvel Comics fan and then eventually as a comic book artist , I had to pay homage to my roots with this - so , Captain America is drawn in a Jack Kirby style , Black Widow is drown in a Jim Lee style , Thor is a Walter Simonson style ; Hulk , Sal Buscema ; Iron Man , Mark Bright / Bob Layton ; Hawkeye , John Byrne , and Deadpool , of course , is Rob Liefeld . And , in my pitch , the screen goes to black again , and the text says , " Deadpool enters the MCRU - ond it's revealed as the Marvel Comics Realistic Universe , with this Alex Ross painting that I added Deadpool to . Because , before the movies , Alex Ross was as close as you could get to realism . And Deadpool's in the corner , saying , ' Almost , but not quite . ' And then , finally , we have ' Deadpool enters the Marvel Cinematic Universe , ' and it goes to the iconic shot of the Avengers in the New York bottle , all looking up at the Chitouri , with Deadpool in there , saying , " That's more like it ! It was just a fun idea to convey the concept of Deadpool universe - hopping and how there are a million different ways that Deadpool could come into this universe . It really got the imaginations of everyone firing and thinking up crazy things that could happen with this character in the MCU . "

which never made it to the Movie

Venom War: Deadpool Vol 1 3, Edge of Spider-Verse Vol 4 4, Spider-Society #1

Interesting fact: Margo's last name was not established in her initial appearance. Her creator Nilah Magruder was only asked to provide one after learning that she would featured in the movie, mere months before the release of Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse.

So the animated universe is now canon to comics even after seeing the designated it as 1610A

Post in thread 'MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread'

Dec 29, 2024

In this post, I'll compile news about the MCU and comic book crossovers


At 11:40 Katharyn Blair (Loki Season Two co-writer) specifically says that it was an exec at Marvel who had an idea to do a TVA comic, but that it was Jordan D. White, Marvel Comics editor who listened to her pitch and let her run with it.

I love this idea,” shared Feige. “It’s just as cool for us to see our work in comics as it is to bring the work of comic book creators to the big screen.

The Marvel.com article also specifically mentions that Feige approved the...

• Sasuke431

• 

So Spider verse is now canon to Marvel COMICS?

1. Nowhere was that implied. He Who Remain's isolated the timeline by separating it from other timelines and cutting off branches to the multiverse.

You haven't answered my question about Eternity.

3. Is it possible for the Omniverse to occupy the MCU since it accommodates for multiverses with any possibility.

It is possible and for that to be possible, any events that happens to the entire omniverse should also happen to MCU even though HWR hid the timelines.

5. To be fair, the Kahhori and TVA comics flagged themselves as "MCU to comics" crossover, so it's a new concept.

6. The basis of my evidence was through MCU influence on the comic books (which shows both MCU and 616 material.) I guess if you meant non-MCU collaborative work, then you've got the Young Avengers visiting the MCU in one of their comic lines from 2016 and the SHIELD comic where MCU Howard the Duck was featured.

Yeah. I remember in Avengers Vol 5 by Hickman when Sunspot, along with another character (I can't remember the other character), came to Earth 19999. At that time, there was an Incursion between Earths. Around that time The Living Tribunal was killed alone with other abstract. Earth 19999 wasn't affected.

7. Difference being, this material was registered as MCU canon with the Spider-Gwen stuff going into comics 616 and making that canon to the MCU.

We have instances of "19999" cameos in Marvel comics few times but only due to dimensional travel but none of their events affected the MCU.

13. And that continuity would be reliable information throughout the website.

Because they share same site. It is Marvel Universe official website.




All these things would just warrant 1-A range for those that travel to Marvel comics even if i wanna agree with your evidence.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I think the whole argument "events that happened in comic don't affect MCU" very bad, most comics events eventually end up back in status quo even when the 7th cosmos was destroyed the 8th was almost a complete copy of the 7th cosmo which would ultimately have no actual effect, usually most events have little to no change in and out of other comics of the same universe, specially events of cosmic level, for those who read comics there are many examples of that, the worse part is that we can't even be sure the events should actually affect MCU because comics barely have any time reference, MCU could just have been part of the 8th cosmo despite starting before the end of secret wars, or the secret wars events might have happen in between movies since MCU has timeskips between movies.

 

[Hellbeast]

How are people like ultron not getting affected why only Loki they outclass kahhori abilities by ten fold ultron state’s boundaries are irrelevant or no

Yeah Ultron would surely get this as would arguably Infinity Wanda

 

[Ptumri9]

I think that it has been officially established that they are not canon to each other, and the cosmologies differ too much to work together, so I would personally rather save time by closing this thread.

According to the official MCU Timeline Book #1, the mainstream MCU universe (Earth-199 999) “exists within its own multiverse, within the larger Marvel Multiverse.” I wanted to point this out and see what the experts here think about this distinction. Does this clarify or help?

My very humble opinion (as a non-expert) is that the MCU and the comics multiverses exist as distinct “entities” within the broader Marvel Megaverse, which, in turn, is part of the larger Omniverse.

 

[Antvasima]

I extremely strongly agree with Excellence616. Thank you greatly for helping out with preventing this disaster in the making.

 

[Antvasima]

According to the official MCU Timeline Book #1, the mainstream MCU universe (Earth-199 999) “exists within its own multiverse, within the larger Marvel Multiverse.” I wanted to point this out and see what the experts here think about this distinction. Does this clarify or help?

My very humble opinion (as a non-expert) is that the MCU and the comics multiverses exist as distinct “entities” within the broader Marvel Megaverse, which, in turn, is part of the larger Omniverse.

That would not explain why none of the "omniversal" Marvel Comics events or cosmological structures ever apply to the MCU.

We can probably define it as that a similar comic book copy of the MCU exists within the Marvel Comics setting, but not really make it logically fit otherwise.

 

[Eseseso]

Until the MCU gets High 1-B statements or higher, this is basically an outlier in terms of the glaring consistency issues.

The most the MCU has ever gotten statement wise is Uatu flat out calling himself a 5D being.

 

[Ptumri9]

That would not explain why none of the "omniversal" Marvel Comics events or cosmological structures ever apply to the MCU.

We can probably define it as that a similar comic book copy of the MCU exists within the Marvel Comics setting, but not really make it logically fit otherwise.

What you said is absolutely right. But I have a question, theoretically shouldn't the omniversal Marvel Comics event also apply to the MCU? Why wouldn't they? The Omniverse is the collection of all universes, multiverses, etc., theoretically including our own reality. Are inconsistent writers to blame here?

Pardon me for the (probably) stupid question.

 

[Excellence616]

What you said is absolutely right. But I have a question, theoretically shouldn't the omniversal Marvel Comics event also apply to the MCU? Why wouldn't they? The Omniverse is the collection of all universes, multiverses, etc., theoretically including our own reality. Are inconsistent writers to blame here?

Pardon me for the (probably) stupid question.

The writers are not to be blamed since we all take including the writers MCU and Marvel Comics as an entirely separate multiverse from each other.

 

[Eseseso]

In the MCU they consider the main universe to be Earth-616, per Multiverse of Madness, so the writers clearly intend for them to be entirely different cosmologies

 

[Yokoahh5743]

I think they should have only 1-A range, through their travel to marvel comics. K.e.v.i.n will only be upgraded to tier 1-A since he see both of mcu multiverse and marvel comics be fiction due to his appearances. (AI) We will see many comic books as well in that room

 

[Excellence616]

I think they should have only 1-A range, through their travel to marvel comics. K.e.v.i.n will only be upgraded to tier 1-A since he see both of mcu multiverse and marvel comics be fiction due to his appearances. (AI) We will see many comic books as well in that room

no, he wouldn't be 1-A.

 

[Yokoahh5743]

no, he wouldn't be 1-A.

Why's

 

[Excellence616]

Why's

This doesn't get you to 1-A as they are just comicbook.

We will see many comic books as well in that room

Even the existence of DC are there in MCU as we saw in Eternals. All they show is that people read comics and watch movies

 

[Yokoahh5743]

Even the existence of DC are there in MCU as we saw in Eternals. All they show is that people read comics and watch movies

That doesn't mean that the MCU multiverse is above the Marvel comics that are viewed as fiction, right? Or maybe it's an outlier, or maybe not at all. Because we see the appearance of many characters from marvel comics as well in spider-verse

 

[Sasuke431]

In the MCU they consider the main universe to be Earth-616, per Multiverse of Madness, so the writers clearly intend for them to be entirely different cosmologies

It was never intended to be a separate multiverse, and according to the interview, it was just according to an interview with iman vellani and Dan Slott, the reason Feige was so obsessed with the 616 was he want to claim that the MCU is a direct adaptation/Alternate version of the 616

In the 616...
Hank Pym built Ultron.
Hawkeye and the Black Widow were NOT founding Avengers.
She-Hulk received a blood transfusion after getting shot by a gangster.
Pepper Potts married Happy Hogan.
Kamala is an inhuman
there's Lockjaw
House of M took place with X-Men

In fact, when iman pointed out that the use of the number 616 in MOM could not be the real 616 for this reason, Feige couldn't disprove it. Later, he made 616 Kamala a mutant a year later.

The writers are not to be blamed since we all take including the writers MCU and Marvel Comics as an entirely separate multiverse from each other.

None of Marvel's writers have ever made such a statement, and all official sources say they are the same multiverse.

That would not explain why none of the "omniversal" Marvel Comics events or cosmological structures ever apply to the MCU.

We can probably define it as that a similar comic book copy of the MCU exists within the Marvel Comics setting, but not really make it logically fit otherwise.

Well, if Earth-199999 is a mirror universe that perfectly reflects the MCU, rather than the MCU itself, then it follows that there are multiple identical multiverses, which is meaningless
Besides, they've already interacted, and Marvel identifies the universes they've interacted with as the same.

Post in thread 'MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread'

Wednesday at 05:56

One thing is that if MCU main earth claims they are Earth 616, and Marvel Comics main earth is also 616, how can they have same earth number?

...

• Sasuke431

 

[Sasuke431]

Apart from the fact that they exist in the same multiverse, I personally think the MCU and comic book cosmology should be viewed separately, just like DC
Because even if a specific story is “canon,” the way it's interpreted is naturally different for each writer.

As an aside, I'm curious to see how this wiki will react to the “Ultimate Incursion” event in 8 months' time.

 

[Antvasima]

@sasuke431

What is your Fandom wiki username? Please link to your account here.

 

[Antvasima]

What you said is absolutely right. But I have a question, theoretically shouldn't the omniversal Marvel Comics event also apply to the MCU? Why wouldn't they? The Omniverse is the collection of all universes, multiverses, etc., theoretically including our own reality. Are inconsistent writers to blame here?

Pardon me for the (probably) stupid question.

Marvel Comics has started to use "Omniverse" as the totality of the multiversal incarnation of Eternity, with several higher levels of existence outside of and beyond it, rather than as all of fiction and reality combined, as Mark Gruenwald originally defined the term.

 

[Sasuke431]

@sasuke431

What is your Fandom wiki username? Please link to your account here.

Sasuke431

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I have updated your VSBW Forum username accordingly.

 

[Jirenoffical]

I disagree them being in the same multiverse but they're clearly connected in a bigger cosmology. The TVA in Gwen's comics is the same from MCU which was explained in this disc before. TVA is outside of mcu multiverse, so is marvel comics. But they all are connected and are being written, controlled and etc. By K.E.V.I.N, which should scale him above comics too. A creation of him, TVA could NOT went into comics without his writing. He's the director and the writer. TVA should get a range update and K.E.V.I.N should scale to comics directly imo. Idk about Kahori tho, if she used her own portals to travel into comics she could get a range update too or it would just be outlier. But don't forget many characters in MCU get low 1c range portals out of nowhere with sorcerer rings (wong from what if vr, dr strange supreme and cassandra nova for example) when ring were opening portals within the timeline before.