speedster352
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He is talking about how strong asta mind resistance is. being mind-controlled is different from being memory wiped and there are 9 other commandments, toxic storms and soul-stealing.
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Asta (Post-Timeskip) Vs Demon King (Nanatsu No Taizai) - 4th Strongest High 6-C (Non-Smurfs) - "Grace"
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Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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I'm gonna check that one out and other 9 commandments are mostly useless the toxic storm can be countered by the demon destroyer sword and you're repeeating what you said so many times soul stealing DK doesn't use this as first move so asta can beat him up before he even used this
speedster352
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The storm is a natural storm stop being a black clover fanboy. It’s fine it’s under his profile as poison manipulation.
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Ok.
1: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Demon_Clan_Physiology_(Nanatsu_no_Taizai)
"Soul Manipulation: Higher level Demons scale to Meliodas who resisted the removal of his soul by Melascula even though he was heavily injured."
2: Doesn't matter since that doesn't overcome Demon King's resistances towards Soul Manipulation which can counter-act baseline Purification, having more numbers for purification doesn't allow you to overcome DK's level of resistance. You have to prove that purification is above layered Soul Manipulation/Purification resistances.
3: Purification of the Soul is inherently tied to Soul Manipulation so having better Soul Manipulation resistances compared to your opponents potency can be used to resist the purification. Also Demon King has layered Purification resistances anyway since Angel's can't purify Demon King despite the fact they can purify other high-ranking demons who are resistant towards Hendricksion's "Purge" which purify's Low-Ranking Demons and their Souls.
No? that hasn't been proven yet by the BC side. Never denied that but i already explain why that wouldn't help Asta nor be a valid win-con. Can you prove this? i already asked the BC side whats Asta's AP and no-one gave me a scale so until that is proven then no. depends how much his speed is increased.
Agree it's OOC but he'll eventually use them when all his other shit is getting nulled. Demon King isn't braindead (
DK directly states he merged with/became Britannia and Meliodas needed an attack that was going to destroy all of Britannia for him to kill Demon King so that kinda points to him being the entire country but even if we wasn't he's still way too large for skill to be in anyway a win-con for Asta. Even if you didn't you still need to destroy a massive part of it and that part is above Asta range with his swords or any of his abilities.
So a unquantifiable increase? that doesn't really prove anything, you have to contextualize what the differences have to be in BC for one-shots to occur so until you prove that it's unquantifiable.
Not in base. Only in Black Asta. Asta's 106 Gigatons while in base which is below the Demon King. he's only three times with Black Asta.
You have to prove that Base Post-Timeskip Asta is as strong as Elves Invasion Arc Black Asta.
"The High 6-C characters like Sealed Licht are scaled at least 2x stronger than the lowest 6-C+ characters due to casually overpowering a combined attack from Black Asta and Spirit Dive Yuno (106 Gigatons)"
"The High 6-C+ characters like Elves' Invasion Arc Black Asta and Post-Timeskip Mimosa are scaled to 1/2 Demon Licht's Calc due to it taking the combined power of two characters to wound Zagred or fight back an explosion comparable to him (650 Gigatons)"
Demon King
"The highest High 6-C's like the Full Power Demon King are scaled to be 2x stronger than the lowest High 6-C's (200 Gigatons)"
He would only become 3x above Demon King which isn't in the range of one-shotting so that isn't a valid win-con, Unquantifiable.
No i'm not? i'm saying to give Asta an actual win-con that isn't either A: already resisted by Demon King and B: Anti-Magic since that isn't an actual win-con for Asta, it's set-up towards one or just an Incon.
It would be like saying Yhwach's "The Almighty" nulling Asta's Anti-Magic is a win-con for Yhwach despite the fact Powernulling doesn't harmfully effect Asta in terms of actually damaging/killing Asta.
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Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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NULLED milly literally said the reason why it's nulled above and u just straight up ignored it
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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he literally can manipulate the size of the demon slayer so he can overcome the massive part u're talking about
Loyd
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if its natural poison, Asta can only null it with the Demon destroyer via causality but if the storm kills instantly he'd die before drawing it and the sword doesn't demonstrate a constant/passive severing affect even held. he can reverse the poison hax temporarily but still being clouded in the Demon kings poison storm he'd die.(if the poison affects are instant ofc)
speedster352
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Epsilon_R
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Is there any specific reason as to why they would scale to Meliodas?
Keyword: baseline purification.
Having layered baseline resistance won't be enough to resist Asta's purification
You know what? Wether it's Purification or Soul Manipulation:
Purifying thousands of souls gathered in one point > Resisting someone who can only purify one soul
I literally told y'all Base Asta was over 3× DK's AP. You even went you way to check BC's ratings and you must have seen there's only two High 6-C ratings, so it should have been obvious that he scale to 650 Gigatons (Asta even has the "+" besides his Large Island ratings meaning he scales to the higher of the two ratings),
He kinda is, as he didn't use any curse during the fight against the sins or even soul manip'd despite being on the verse of losing so many times. Saying he's not braindead won't make it use them sooner than he usually does.
Yet, they didn't need to destroy the entire country to defeat him, which lead to my point said earlier, wether he fused with the whole thing or not, doesn't matter as you don't need to destroy the whole country to defeat him.
The increase from base to Black Asta is big enough to one shot characters that can give trouble to his base, such as Spirit Ladros and Langris but also Drowa
Why would I have to prove something that's already accepted on his profile??? If you read his profile correctly, you would have seen that Post Timeskip base Asta is Large Island level +, Post Timeskip Asta has always been rated at 650 Gigatons by scaling to Noelle. It's not my fault if you guys don't read the profile
Sealed Licht is the only character in the verse that scales to 106 Gigatons, every other High 6-C scale to 650 Gigatons. Don't just pull numbers out of the verse without even knowing how they are used
Correction : He starts 3.25 stronger than DK, has Black Asta who's always been able to one shot those who are on par with his base, then has RPL who's good enough to defeat, granted it's not instantaneous, people who can one shot him.
So Asta can definitely yield enough energy to defeat DK. And even is you were to say he still can't one shot, Asta definitely won't need that many hits to knock him out.
Anti-Magic isn't just Powernull, it's Causality Manip, Stat amps and ranged attacks with Anti-Magic Slashes that would get him the win given that, A: You simply need AP to knock DK out despite his size. B: He hasn't shown to be able to regen in that state and C: Even if that was the case. Constantly regenerating apparently makes demons weaker which definitely won't help him.
Read above
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Epsilon_R
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Kilometers at most. And I shall remind you that he was trying to dodge the combo move of the sins when that move was smaller than his head, it's definitely not a matter of size but AP"Range: Extended melee range with swords, at least several dozen meters with Anti-Magic and Black Divider, hundred meters in Berserk Mode, kilometers with Devil Union"
Demon King's Size.
Epsilon_R
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I didn't say otherwise. I said you don't need a country sized attack to defeat him
speedster352
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The demon king outhaxes asta
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Nope most of DK's haxes gets negged by asta and the rest are explained by espilon r and some of them by milly
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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so 1 vote left i guess
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They're higher-ranking demons then Meliodas and such have inherently higher resistances compared those lower then themselves? It's something i'm not going to explain in-depth given it's already accepted on his profile.
It isn't "baseline" as i explained later on in this post, that statement was in reference towards Asta's Purification which is baseline in-terms of Layers and DK's is resistant towards baseline Purification.
Having more layers, regardless of how many people you've "purified" is always greater then someone who has more numbers then your resistances but less layers. especially for Soul-Based Purification.
Not when it's layered which is what DK's resistances are so until you prove that Asta's Purification is above baseline and is actually layered he isn't purifying DK.
No it doesn't, DK isn't forced by plot to not use his hax's within this fight and such would most likely use then when all of his magical-based shit is getting null'd. Yes it does given my previous explanation.
Already addressed this point within the quoted section so i'm not re-addressing it here.
That's unquantifiable my guy, that doesn't answer my original question which was for you to contextualize the differences needed for one-shots to occur in Black Clover. You saying the increase between Base Asta and Black Asta is so massive that it can one-shot people who gave Base Asta troubles isn't a quantification.
I'm asking for a concrete number that's consistently shown to be correct.
Alright then he's 3x in base still doesn't matter given 1: That isn't massive AP difference and 2: This version of Demon King scales above the 200 Gigaton's number given he's stronger in this form then his full power form which is 200Gigatons.
So they basically have relative/around the same level of AP so that still isn't a win-con for Asta.
You haven't proved either the Black Asta nor RPL claims. quantify these things and until you do then no he doesn't "yield enough energy to defeat DK".
It's mostly that, he only gains extra hax's through his swords rather then something inherent with his Anti-Magic. Causality Manipulation can't be used to physically harm someone it's something that's purely made to nullify magical attacks, quantify that Stat Amp's and he doesn't have enough range with any of his attacks to effectively harm DK given his size so none of what you've posted gives Asta an actual win-con.
A: Asta has at-most a slight AP advantage, definitely not enough to knock DK around, B: He can through his DP, just because he hasn't/didn't show it doesn't mean he doesn't have it given the inherent things that demons have, especially the highest-ranking one's which Demon King is the epicenter of, also even if he couldn't regenerate that wouldn't be much of negative factor for DK given his massive size, C: Addressed this in the (B) section of this post.
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I'm not counting "Asta FRA" as votes when Asta doesn't even have a win-con yet while Demon King does with his Nature Manipulation which isn't magical-based and Soul Manipulation which is layered and isn't resisted by Asta.
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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LOL that's kinda shit when you say it asta has a win con that you can't accept
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Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Espilon R literally said the reasons, you just can't accept the win con and you're forcing the one shot ap so many
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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And sba that if the op doesn't state anything if blood lusted or not it's automatically in character which in this form it's not in character for dk to use soul steal
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I have no idea what your trying to say with this, sorry.
Could you possibly re-type this but make it a little bit more coherent? Thanks.
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State of mind: In character, but willing to kill. The characters will employ their usual battle strategies, including flaws such as being casual, however, must be willing to kill the opponent even if they usually won't.
You haven't read SBA haven't you?.
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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none of dk's usual strategy uses soul steal so that's shit
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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If you don't believe the ap you can search the thread itself since the calculations at the verses page doesn't fully explain the value of the ap itself
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Have you, like actually read my points or are you just meat-riding all of the BC points?
My argument is that DK isn't dumb and when he sees his magical shit getting null'd by Asta's Anti-Magic he would most likely start using things that aren't magic-based.
It isn't that hard to understand my argument.
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Bruh no when the DK sees he's attacks don't work he proceeds with his psychical attack in his brittania key it was shown when he's move didn't work against the sds plus they didn't need even need to destroy the country or one shot ap to defeat the dk they just needed superior ap against the dk in this so don't insist the one shot ap when they didn't even need a one shot ap for the dk
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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So what's stopping asta from use demon dweller sword and send huge slash projectile to dk and spam it so dk couldn't be able to dodge? And remember that asta has a superior ap than dk and it would be higher in his black asta and top of it with his RPL
TheGreatJedi13
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DK haxes before he can spam more
Speed equal
even if you have superior AP if you have a bullet as powerful as planet buster if its size is only enough to cut my fingerstips it won't do much unless you hit vital parts or important parts.
DK fra
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Asta can amp his speed with black asta so no asta has ki sensing so he can know where his vial parts or important parts and black asta has passive power null and no DK cannot hax him since most of it is nulled and in this key he doesn't show to be able to use his ability and once he saw his ability useless he leads with psychical and it's in character
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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plus the sds didn't even need to hit the vial part or important part to defeat DK mel just spammed full counter to dk's body to defeat him so no
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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Plus superior AP is enough to defeat since sds combined their attack at full power so no this doesn't mean anyting plus asta slash projectiles can be big so thats ah no
TheGreatJedi13
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btw where is asta NPI located i can't seem to find it in the profile
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He doesn't have NPI on his profile.
The closest thing to NPI on his profile is his Purification and that's it.
"Possession Nullification (Strong enough to negate curses and Reincarnation Magic. Removed all of the elves' souls from their hosts with one attack) and Purification (Type 2; Asta is able to clean the body, mind and soul of evil and highly corrupted spirits such as Elf Luck and Dark Elf Patry. Type 3; Asta can remove poison and status in general by severing the cause-and-effect relationship"
TheGreatJedi13
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yes but like i said speed equal
if they are speed equal their spamming will be at the same speed as the other character. Meliodas being able to spam full counter repeatedly and multiple attacks being countered is different from a single attack at a time
false. by that logic, a gun would kill me if it hit my hand and not from other reasons such as blood loss or organ failure
its size at max is kilometers. that's minuscule compared to a country size.
there is a reason Large size can be a big deal in fiction
then how would he know he needs to purify him or that he can exist as incorporeal being.
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Don't know, probably through something like KI-sensing, he could possibly tell that Demon King is actually a demon through how his energy feels.
But that doesn't matter since Asta's Purification is below DK's resistance towards Purification so it's completely useless against Demon King.
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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As i said he can amp his speed so his would be higher than dk so no he's faster than dk
You really misunderstood i didn't say that one projectile could deal a damage that would kill the dk immediately, i said if one is fairly big and if spammed it guess what would happen
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Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
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this is the only thing i have no idea about
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