All the problems with every Minecraft enemy mob page here

[Ayewale]

Let the rage begin.

Creeper
Stealth Mastery should not be there. Period. Even if the Creeper was completely silent, which isn't, that's not stealth jesus christ.

Intelligence should be Unknown, if not animalistic. It's based off Stealth Mastery, which I've debunked.

Speed should be just Below Average Human. Literally ANY mob can dodge an arrow if you're aim is bad enough. There's no proof of any mob 'dodging' any projectile.

Durability should be Unknown. For one thing, it's based off scaling from the Skeleton, which is based off stat points-which are a game mechanic and should not be used for scaling. For TWO, the durability for the Skeleton is complete bullshit because it assumes the Nether vaporizes the water through heat.

Zombie
Being healed by the Potion of Harming should not be a listed feat. Turning Villagers into Zombies is NOT disease manipulation.

Attack Potency should be unknown for every form. It's based off scaling through stat points, which are game mechanics. The other forms are based off scaling to other forms, which are scaled to stat points, etc...

Speed. Scales to the skeleton, whose speed stat is based off 'reacting to it's own arrows', which NEVER happens.

Lifting Strength needs a reference, if not just being Unknown. Where the **** is Class 25 coming from?

Striking Strength should be the same as AP. Unknown.

Durability should be Unknown. Taking a beating from Steve is purely through ******* game mechanics.

Stamina should be unknown.

Intelligence should be Possibly Animalistic. Where the flying **** do 'battle smarts' come from? They can't tell weak from strong swords either. They're virtually brainless.

Skeleto
Attack Potency. Shouldn't scale to the silverfish Because of Game Mechanics (abbreviated from henceforth as BoGM.)

Speed. Never has been shown doing the feat that garnered it Subsonic speed in the first place.

Durability. Nothing in the Nether implies it vaporizes water because of heat.

Stamina. Should be unknown because of no proof. (Abbreviated as SBU.)

Intelligence. They have no degree of battle smarts, have no showings of swordsmanship, and are not capable of driving out the player. Them being SUPPOSEDLY good with bows is their only "feat" and it's debatable.

Spider
Spiders cannot see through blocks anymore, so no Enhanced Senses.

Attack Potency. Based off Debunked Skeleton.

Speed. Based off Debunked Skeleton.

Lifting Strength. A skeleton's weight is unidentifiable. And moving while someone is on your back isn't really lifting, is it?

Striking Strength. Based off the debunked AP.

Durability. Based off Debunked Skeleton/based off Striking strength.

Stamina. SBU.

Slime
Attack Potency. AP should never be based on size | They don't scale to silverfish | Based off Skeleton AP/debunked medium form

Speed. Needs references.

Striking Strength. Based off AP.

Durability. Snow Golem's AP is questionable, you'll see later on down the road | Based off Striking Strength | Based off Striking Strength

Stamina. BoGM.

Spider Jockey
No Enhanced Senses, only the spider is invisible, only the skeleton resists electricity, Weakness only applies to the Skeleton.

Attack Potency, Speed, Lifting/Striking Strength, Durability and Stamina. Based off scaling from debunked Spider/Skeleton.

Phantom
Attack Potency. Based off scaling to other monsters, which are based off scaling to Skeleton.

Speed. Based off scaling to the Enderman, who never reacts to arrows, but it's the basis of the enderman's speed rating.

Striking Strength. Based off AP.

Durability. Based off Striking Strength.

Stamina. BoGM.

Witch
Speed, Durability. Based off scaling to Skeleton.

Vindicator
Attack Potency, Speed, Striking Strength, Durability. Based off direct or indirect scaling to a skeleton.

Attack Potency. Them being town level as a group is a very irrelevant thing to make note of, since they would be as such with or without scaling to Evoker.

Stamina. BoGM.

Intelligence. It's not "skilled" in using axes. Intelligence should be lower.

Evoker.
Attack Potency, Speed, Durability. Based off direct/indirect scaling to the Skeleton.

Stamina. BoGM.

Vex
AP. Scales to Zombie, who scales to Skeleton.

Speed. Subsonic speed shouldn't be there.

Striking Strength. Based off AP.

Durability. Based off Striking Strength.

Zombie Pigma
AP. Equality to the Vindicator is based off Game Mechanics. The Ghast being stronger than Skeletons/Zombies is based off Game Mechanics. And the Skeleton itself has debunked stats. Triple threat!

Speed. Compares to Skeleton.

Striking Strength. Based off AP.

Durability. Based off Striking Strength.

Stamina. Being undead does not give you extra stamina jesus ******* christ.

Timeout
So far, I've spent nearly 2 hours working on this and I realized that most of this would be me complaining about direct/indirect scaling to the Skeleton/Enderman. So I'm going to use the rest of this thread to talk about more specific issues concerning each monster. From here on out I'm not gonna talk about scaling to other mobs.

The hate continues
-Ghasts: Range needs reference. Stamina should be Unknown. Durability should be unknown, the Nether vaporizing water through sheer heat is a headcanon. -Blaze: Attack Potency is based off being 'stronger' than the Nether Head headcanon; not only is the Nether being extremely hot a headcanon, how exactly would the Blaze scale to it? Striking Strength needs a reference, unless it's more damned Skeleton scaling.

-Magma Cube:

 -Attack Potency for Small shouldn't be scaled to Silverfish, Medium shouldn't be scaled either, Large is based off Nether Headcanon. -Striking Strength should be Unknown for all of them. -Stamina should be Unknown.

-Wither Skeleto: Does Poison Manipulation count as Corrosion Inducement?(N) Resistance to Fire has no reference, shouldn't be there. Attack Potency is a bad hypothetical and should be labeled as Unknown. Wither Effect is just poison, not necessarily durability negation. Durability is based off Nether Headcanon. -Snow Golem: Durability is based off scaling through game statistics. Stamina should be Unknown. Attack Potency seems fine, but questionable still. -Iron Golem: Lifting Strength is wrong since it 'flinging' Steve into the air is just attacking it. Any mob is capable of damaging Steve with diamond armor, so that should not be used to determine Attack Potency. Shouldn't scale to the wither (The Player with iron armor can defeat the Ender Dragon, but we don't use that as scaling). Striking and Durability are based off AP.

-Wither:

 -Should have only Limited Forcefield Manipulation. -Death/Darkness Manipulation should not be there and are completely unfounded powers. -Resistance to Bad Luck is unfounded, should not be there. -Is not immune to Gravity, Blinding, Statistics Debuff or Poison/Corrosion(it's only immune to it's own Wither Effect). All unfounded powers. -Seeing invisible beings requires reference to the fact that it can see Players even when they have an invisibility potion in effect. -Multiversal Range for it screaming is the dumbest thing in this entire verse. In-canon Minecraft is not infinite. And there is no source stating that it spreads through all the worlds of Minecraft. -Wither Effect/Blue Wither Skull do not negate durability. -Should have teleporting as an ability, as it will teleport around the player at times. -On that note, there's no instance of it resisting either teleportation or BFR. -The Wither's AP solely scaling to Steve's Durability is bullshit, because Steve's durability comes from the fact that it solely scales to the Wither's AP. (A is strong because it clashed with B, B is strong because it clashed with A, how strong are they outside of comparisons?). -The Wither's speed scales to Steve, who scales to-(huge sigh)-the Skeleton, so the Wither's speed should be unknown.

-Silverfish: Speed comes from an Endermen feat where it dodges arrows, except the feat is non-existent, so the scaling is as well. Stamina should be Unknown. -Snow Golem: Speed scales to Debunked Skeleton. Durability is either unfounded or based off in-game mechanics and statistics, either of which means that Snow Golem should have Unknown Durability. Stamina should be unknown.

(I've started talking about Skeleton speed shenanigans again)

-Guardia:

 -Attack Potency: Doesn't scale or compare to the Endermen in any way | Still doesn't compare to the Endermen | 'It's a boss, so it SHOULD be on the level of the other Bosses!' Complete idiocy. Toriel and Asriel Dreemurr are both bosses. They're trillions of times apart in terms of power. -Speed: Skeleton scaling again/ -Striking Strength is based off a broken AP. -Durability: Based off a broken Striking Strength | I guess this is correct | Based off the asinine 'Bosses are the same strength' statement. -Stamina should be Unknown.

-Ender Drago:

 -Void Manipulation shouldn't be there. The void in minecraft isn't a literal void. -Is not immune to Bad Luck, death, blinding, etc. -Speed is completely unfounded and is based off a hypothetical statement. -Lifting Strength should be Unknown. It doesn't scale to Steve at all. -The Ender Crystals are listed as Regenerationn when they're just healing.

-Enderme: It doesn't have dimensional travel, period. Attack Potency LITERALLY HAS NO REFERENCE ('Can trade blows with others on it's level.' 'Character X is continent level because it's as strong as itself!'). Endermen cannot 'dodge' arrows anymore than them just moving out of the way randomly due to AI. Striking strength is based off a non-existent AP stat. Durability is questionable. Stamina should be unknown, regardless of the statement. Teleportation is most certainly not Low Multiversal.

-Shulker: Shulker AP only scales to Enderman's non-existent AP. Their speed stat is magnificent-you cannot be immobile and have subsonic reaction speed.

-Endermite: They do not scale or compare to the Silverfish in any way apart from imagination and in-game statistics. Speed is Skeleton Scaling/Enderman Scaling. Striking strength is based off AP, and Durability is based off Striking Strength.

-The Entities/The Real Player: Despite their ridiculous tier of Low Multiversal, they have no references, when they should be chock-filled with them. I thought Tier 2's were held with a high standard, but these pages don't possess any references. And they come completely from a very long passage of text, too, it should not be so hard. Plus, it all comes from an extremely vague and mysterious poem, which is very difficult to derive AP from.

Final Statements
This is virtually every Minecraft character apart from the passive mobs. I think with this tsunami of issues, the entire verse should be blacklisted until revision has been done.

 

[Kriskirby]

 

[Moritzva]

Mkay, so,

What's your argument for Minecraft AP values being Game Mechanics/wrong?

Water disappearing in the Nether seems pretty easily based on heat vaporization, and Silverfish breaking stone is... technically breaking stone, even if that feat has always felt a little weird to me.

I agree with a lot of your points, Mobutt, but before things get flooded, I just want to get a detailed argument out there.

 

[GyroNutz]

There's a lot to tackle here, I'll start with the first few mobs:

Creeper: I agree that stealth mastery should be removed, but their colours and the fact they are silent probably warrants Camouflage.

Speed: Any mob can tag Steve who has Subsonic combat speed from being able to dodge/block arrows and hit Enderman who can dodge point blank arrows. Creepers probably don't fit this bill, since their only attack is an AoE self destruct. Skeletons/The Player can shoot arrows at a max of 100 m/s, which is the subsonic feat. As for Shulkers, you don't need to be able to move to react to stuff. If you were locked in one position, your reactions wouldn't suddenly become zero.

AP/Durability Scaling: Any mob can take hits from an early/mid-game Steve, whereas Steve beats Silverfish with much more ease. Honestly I don't think it would be game mechanics to scale the literal weakest hostile mob to other standard mobs. Though I agree that small magma cubes at least definitely don't scale to the silverfish.

"For TWO, the durability for the Skeleton is complete bullshit because it assumes the Nether vaporizes the water through heat."

Everything points to that assumption though. The nether is a very hot place by its looks alone, there's a unique animation when the water disappears that hints at vaporisation, lava and fire burn for much longer further hinting at the nether's unnatural heat.

Lifting Strength: It shouldn't be class 25 for any mob. Mobs that can carry Steve should get class 50, since full gold armour and two gold blocks (dual wielded) yield this. Any mobs that can wear full gold armour gets either class 5 or class 10. Calculation link here.

"And moving while someone is on your back isn't really lifting, is it?"

What else would it be? You'd be the only support between them and the ground, only way to do that is to lift and carry them.

Stamina: What's the problem with undead beings having infinite stamina? Isn't the whole point of undead beings that they don't need stuff like oxygen and muscles because they're, well, dead? I'm not entirely sure if this is a site standard or not.

Intelligence: I agree with most of these; mobs don't show much intelligence besides decent aim and good pathtracking, which isn't too impressive. Zombies do pick up better weapons in place of weaker ones in higher difficulties btw.

Enderman: I don't see your argument against Enderman's teleportation. They get their rating for being able to teleport into the nether.

Ender Dragon: The Minecraft void gets rid of anything that falls into it instantly (bar the player + dragon) and seems to be simply nothingness. Resistances come from resisting all potion effects. I agree with the last two points.

Fire Resistance: Any Nether mob that can casually swim in lava without any adverse effects should get fire resistance.

Wither: We treat the wither effect as a slow acting death manipulation, since it's treated seperately from regular poison. The wither effect bypasses armour points, so it does negate durability. Resistances come from potions as said above. As for its screams, you can hear the wither scream from the overworld if you're in, say, the Nether.

I agree that Minecraft needs to be referenced/explained better, which is something that can be sorted out without much controversy.

 

[Moritzva]

Regarding Speed, 'tagging Steve' isn't even a thing most mobs can do. For one, Steve has next to no way to dodge arrows in mid-air; he can only dodge via predictions, which do not qualify for speed feats. Also, a vast majority of mobs are not remotely as fast as Steve. If Steve can literally run straight through a crowd of skeletons and zombies and make it out fine, all those mobs should certainly not scale.

Endermen do teleport away from projectiles, so the speed rating makes sense there. But at the same time, they are significantly faster than zombies and skeletons when pissed off.

So regarding speed, yea, we need better justification or that needs to be changed. Steve is not fast enough to dodge an arrow without knowing it's coming and dodging pre-emptively, and most mobs are monstrously slower than Steve.

I can see an argument for Steve scaling to Endermen dodging arrows, but for most other mobs, we're going to need some far, far better feats and justification. Most, if not all mobs move too slow to dodge arrows unless your aim sucks.

 

[GyroNutz]

Steve can block arrows in mid-air, after they've been fired. He can also sidestep them from a distance, though that may be lower than subsonic.

How do you think we should scale speed? Do you think everyone that moves at comparable speeds to endermen (i.e. bosses, perhaps zombie pigmen) should scale?

 

[The_Impress]

Upon intelligence, I reckon it should be Below Average for mobs who can wield weapons and armors, and Animalistic for the rest, with the exception of Endermen being listed as Unknown.

Also, regarding listing every mob as Unknown, it's downright insane. Game Mechanics is the only thing to go off of here, unless you can logically give canon info that proves otherwise. We use the Marvel Handbook for many characters even though it's not reliable, only because there's literally nothing else to go by.

Mob speed is their attack speed. The player can actively block arrows, thus every enemy that can keep up with the player is the same speed as them.

Also, the concept of void manipulation being game machanics has been done to death

 

[Moritzva]

Steve can block arrows in mid-air, after they've been fired. He can also sidestep them from a distance, though that may be lower than subsonic.

How do you think we should scale speed? Do you think everyone that moves at comparable speeds to endermen (i.e. bosses, perhaps zombie pigmen) should scale?

Do you have evidence of this? Since I play minecraft all the time, and blocking arrows with shields basically requires you to have the shield up as the arrow is being fired. It's very difficult to pull up your shield while the arrow is mid-flight.

As well, sidestepping from a massively far away distance likely isn't subsonic.

I think scaling speed is up for discussion, but I do agree that mobs that can reasonably keep up with Steve/Endermen in running speed could possibly scale. (It's naturally hard to get 'reaction' speed feats out of mobs due to game mechanics and AI, so running speed seems like the next best thing.)

Regardless, we should scale from Endermen, not Steve. The Endermen can and has feats of dodging arrows, Steve can not (without luck).

 

[The_Impress]

Anyways I'll contact the verse Knowledgeable members to speed this through

 

[Moritzva]

Upon intelligence, I reckon it should be Below Average for mobs who can wield weapons and armors, and Animalistic for the rest, with the exception of Endermen being listed as Unknown.

Also, regarding listing every mob as Unknown, it's downright insane. Game Mechanics is the only thing to go off of here, unless you can logically give canon info that proves otherwise. We use the Marvel Handbook for many characters even though it's not reliable, only because there's literally nothing else to go by.

Mob speed is their attack speed. The player can actively block arrows, thus every enemy that can keep up with the player is the same speed as them.

Also, the concept of void manipulation being game machanics has been done to death

Regarding AP, just because we used something for Marvel doesn't mean it's right to use a similar concept here.

Regarding speed, The Player... can't really actively block arrows. To be subsonic, The Player has to react to the arrow, not the skeleton drawing the arrow. Blocking the arrow in mid-air is remarkably difficult.

 

[GyroNutz]

You can move your shield up relative to the speed of an arrow. Similarly, when it was still a thing, you could do the same with swords. I've blocked arrows with a shield before after they've been fired, pretty sure, but I don't have any footage.

It could be a lower degree of subsonic, or superhuman perhaps.

 

[Moritzva]

You can move your shield up relative to the speed of an arrow. Similarly, when it was still a thing, you could do the same with swords. I've blocked arrows with a shield before after they've been fired, pretty sure, but I don't have any footage.

It could be a lower degree of subsonic, or superhuman perhaps.

Having your shield out and moving it less than a foot isn't exactly a prime indicator of speed. I could pick up a trash lid and wave it around my body pretty fast, but that doesn't mean I can reliably block arrows with it.

It's possible to do, but not exactly reliable. Not to mention, normally, you still know in advance when a Skeleton will firec due to predictable intervals. And if you know they are firing in advance, the reaction feat is incredibly diminished.

I honestly think scaling faster mobs to Endermen is best. The Player would stil be Subsonic, but for a more sensible reason.

 

[Ayewale]

Okay, so I've read ya points, and here are some of the corrections I've made so far based on your statements:

Endermen are multiversal range teleporters. They can teleport into the Nether. Endermen are actually pretty fast. I didn't know they teleported away from arrows, that part wasn't on the minecraft wiki. Though most enemies scale from Skeletons, who are a load of cod. Nether Headcanon is a lot less headcanon than I thought. I'm still on the fence about it since I don't think it's like, 70% correct, but there seems to be enough proof for at least a good general assumption. Though I thought that this was because of the whole 'Hell' theme on the never (like how you can't sleep in it). Ender Dragon has all it's resistances. Though the Minecraft Void is still in my opinion not an actual void.

Also, additional problem: a lot of the points in the Minecraft pages that are actually correct are severely lacking in references.

 

[Moritzva]

Endermen teleporting away from arrows is a pretty reliable Subsonic for me, imo.

Who thinks that faster mobs should scale to Endermen, while far slower mobs are closer to Peak Human due to Steve massively outspeeding them (I'm not sure just how fast they walk, but Zombies do not scale to Steve.)

 

[Ayewale]

Upon intelligence, I reckon it should be Below Average for mobs who can wield weapons and armors, and Animalistic for the rest, with the exception of Endermen being listed as Unknown.
Also, regarding listing every mob as Unknown, it's downright insane. Game Mechanics is the only thing to go off of here, unless you can logically give canon info that proves otherwise. We use the Marvel Handbook for many characters even though it's not reliable, only because there's literally nothing else to go by.

Mob speed is their attack speed. The player can actively block arrows, thus every enemy that can keep up with the player is the same speed as them.

Also, the concept of void manipulation being game machanics has been done to death

We don't scale characters through in-game stats, though, and that's where most of Minecraft scaling comes from. Also, as for Below Average for wielding weapons, that seems fine.

 

[Ayewale]

Endermen teleporting away from arrows is a pretty reliable Subsonic for me, imo.
Who thinks that faster mobs should scale to Endermen, while far slower mobs are closer to Peak Human due to Steve massively outspeeding them (I'm not sure just how fast they walk, but Zombies do not scale to Steve.)

I think that's fair enough, yeah.

 

[Moritzva]

Based on what we've discussed:

Intelligence
Below Average for weapon-wielding enemies, such as Zombies and Skeletons.

Animalistic for weaponless enemies, such as Spiders and Creepers. They just run at you.

Endermen should get Average, given how they use teleportation decently wisely and are tricker enemies to fight, but certainly nothing higher.

Speed
Subsonic for mobs that are relative in speed to pissed off Endermen, and Steve, since Endermen reliably dodge arrows and can run quite fast. Peak Human for slower mobs, such ad Zombies and Skeletons.

I would like to scale based on reaction speeds only, but seeing as mobs don't really have reactions besides walking towards you and hitting you, I think this is fine.

 

[GyroNutz]

Speed Subsonic for mobs that are relative in speed to pissed off Endermen, and Steve, since Endermen reliably dodge arrows and can run quite fast. Peak Human for slower mobs, such ad Zombies and Skeletons.

I would like to scale based on reaction speeds only, but seeing as mobs don't really have reactions besides walking towards you and hitting you, I think this is fine.

When you say speed, you mean purely reaction/combat speed right? They have other values for movement speed which can/have been measured.

 

[Ayewale]

What about Durability/AP? For a lot of monsters that statisitics' incorrect, too.

 

[Moritzva]

It's quite hard to scale Endermen's reaction speeds to others. But, if Endermen teleport from arrows, and Steve can keep up with and fight Endermen, then we should scale based on that.

The only problem is, measuring combat/reaction speeds is incredibly difficult, given that most mobs don't react to things and have slow hitting speeds.

Any suggestions as to who and what scales?

Regarding AP, let's settle Speed, then move to that.

 

[Ayewale]

I'm not sure at this point. In terms of movement speed, most Monsters are below human. In terms of combat/reaction speed, that's really hard to determine, especially since most mobs don't really have attacking animations.

I'm not sure what to scale them by, tbh. The Enderman and Steve are pretty solidly much faster than most mobs. Perhaps they should get 'at least Peak Human combat/reaction speed'?

 

[Moritzva]

Aren't there calcs for how fast mobs are based on ib-game values for distance of blocks?

Also, in Minecraft, faster mobs can hit you more often via running up to you after hitting you again. So perhaps we can scale movement speed to combat speed, since they do in fact hit you more often? It isn't perfect, but it makes sense. This way, Endermen, Pigmen, and similar mobs would have Subsonic, while Zombie, Skeleton, and others would not.

I can't recall exactly where Zombie and Skeleton would be, though.

 

[Ayewale]

There are calcs, but those only exist for Enderman as of now I think. As for your suggestion for scaling Movement speed to combat speed, I think that's fair? Minecraft combat speed and minecraft movement speed for mobs are kinda one and the same, so scaling a mob's movement speed to reaction speed would make sense.

 

[Moritzva]

Yea. I don't like it, but I dislike making Zombie subsonic more.

 

[Jinsye]

I'm... not sure what you want for the metafictional stuff? The Player creates Minecraft worlds which contain three universes. The Nether, End, and Overworld. Which is 2-C. They have also created a Small Private aworld which is Minecraft in it's entirety, that's 2-B. If you want a simple graphic of Minecraft's cosmology, here

 

[Moritzva]

Thoughts on speed, Ed?

 

[Jinsye]

I think the speed is fine where it is at currently, tbh

Maybe the 9-As could get that downgraded but everyone should just be fine at Normal to Athletic Human w/ Subsonic reactions

 

[Jinsye]

And addressing the Guardian issue because I think it's dumb

Toriel/Asriel is a complete false equivalency, you know that Asriel is considered a complete god right? And Toriel... isn't a god right?

There's no such power gap between the Elder Guardian and the Ender Dragon/Wither. You need to prove such a gap exists because as it is right now, the Elder Guardian is considered a boss, which means it's on the same status as the Ender Dragon and Wither

 

[DMB_1]

The Endermen teleporting away from the arrow is a much of a game mechanic as it can get:

1) No other mob can actually dodge arrows nor move as fast as them.

2) The player can't. Have you guys ever played Minecraft Multiplayer? Or even watched a video about it? Or just put yourself in front of a dispenser while it shoots arrows? The only way you can dodge such thins is purely by jumping around to disorient the sniper and by timing, not by literally seeing the arrow flying through the air and moving away from it, let alone doing this at point-blank distance.

3) The Endermen don't react to the arrow, they just teleport away as soon as any projectile weapon (including snowballs and eggs) just barely touch him, and they automatically teleport away even if they are looking in the complete opposite direction of the arrow. At the very best, this would just qualify as limited Instinctive Reaction, as they behave this way only with projectiles, not with any other attacks.

• If the latter is true, this would only scale to Endermen and not to anyone else, as like I explained above, saying that the player can attacks faster than the arrows is just fallacious.

 

[Moritzva]

So, is your argument to remove Subsonic completely, DMB?

I can understand your reasoning, regardless.

 

[Ayewale]

Yeah, but by the logic of that page, they're both on the same level. Also, as it is, you need to prove why the Elder Guardian is on the same level as the Wither/Ender Dragon. Because they're of the same rank doesn't mean they're of the same power level, at all.

Asriel being a god and Toriel not being a god is exactly my point. They're both Boss monsters who are goats, but have massive power differences.

 

[Ayewale]

also, subsonic reactions I'm gonna question a lot. we don't really see any of the monsters reacting to anything? I assume that if one can't get an exact reaction speed, we usually 'scale it' to the character's speed.

 

[Moritzva]

I think the speed is fine where it is at currently, tbh

Maybe the 9-As could get that downgraded but everyone should just be fine at Normal to Athletic Human w/ Subsonic reactions

And how do monsters that have incredibly difficult times tagging you scale to you in speed?

As well, how is The Elder Guardian on the levels of The Wither and Ender Dragon? Both of the latter are far more potent in about every sense of the world, and saying they are "a boss" in a game with extremely loose linear progression doesn't really mean jack.

 

[Jinsye]

My current logic is that they're comparable to the Wither and Ender Dragon because they're considered as much of a threat as those two and more of a threat than an Iron Golem. Which can't be said for Toriel and Asriel.

Removing Subsonic is fine though.

 

[Moritzva]

I don't really mind scaling to Endermen, but scaling to The Player responding to arrows is... wrong.

 

[Jinsye]

Also just went on MC and tried blocking arrows

Either I must suck or the arrows are too fast to block, if it's the latter then the Player shouldn't really have Subsonic

 

[DMB_1]

You can potentially manage to block the arrows if you have a shield, but you have to be at a good distance, have good timing, and to be a bit lucky, though I don't think it would be more impressive than something a human could do against an actual archer in real life.

And doing so at a point-blank distance is humanly impossible.

 

[Moritzva]

Also just went on MC and tried blocking arrows

Either I must suck or the arrows are too fast to block, if it's the latter then the Player shouldn't really have Subsonic

Yea, I'm high on that stance. Either Subsonic scales from Endermen, or there's no Subsonic at all.

As for Guardians? Simply calling them a "boss" doesn't really mean much. Bosses can be stronger, or weaker, than other bosses. I wouldn't call The Eye of Cthulhu from Terraria as strong as Skeletron Prime, despite them both being bosses.

 

[Jinsye]

Eh, Minecraft doesn't really have the sense of linear progression Terraria has where every boss you face is stronger, but I'll let it slide.

 

[Moritzva]

Eh, Minecraft doesn't really have the sense of linear progression Terraria has where every boss you face is stronger, but I'll let it slide.

That's the thing. Minecraft doesn't have linear progression. So, just because bosses are called bosses does not mean they are of the same caliber.

The Wither and The Ender Dragon? Yea, it's generally accepted they are of sinilar difficulties, and as end-game bosses. The Elder Guardian is absolutely nothing like that, especially stat-wise. The only thing at all difficult about it is the fact that you're underwater, and that Guardians pelt you along the way, none of which reflect The Elder Guardian's Attack Potency, Durability, or similar.