Red Dead Revisions part 3: AP

[Dalesean027]

Red Dead Redemption 2 Calc compilation

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's the blog and it has a deadeye perception feat and a bullet dodge as mentioned so while this will be the next crt his speed would be rewritten as such

Superhuman, Subsonic perceptions via Deadeye

Even with deadeye being a time manip based ability now its speed should be fine to have listed via this in our rules

Abilities that accelerate a user's time to make them faster can be mentioned as a rating in the Speed section of the relevant profile, as these abilities increase a user's speed relative to everyone else. However, they should be mentioned separate to their non-amplified speed. For example: Normal Human, FTL via time acceleration.

 

[LordGinSama]

I'll update the OP once I calm tf down because this rabbit hunting mission has me doing flips rn

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

looks good

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

As this is an AP thread, I will add that Arthur can kill the legendary bison with a few kicks and punches, which are obviously larger than ones in real life which can take attacks from other bisons. So Arthur should scale to its AP or Durability of 120936.0575 joules, which would be a lowball as this would obviously be bigger than the ones irl.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Arthur can dodge gunshots out of deadeye as well, which should probably be calced (In particular 3:45 and 8:25). It should be noted it doesnt matter what gun the NPC has, some law even carry lancaster rifles, so I think it would be fair to use the fastest guns in RDR, as he can dodge them regardless.

 

[LordGinSama]

so I think it would be fair to use the fastest guns in RDR, as he can dodge them regardless.

Probably not as the fastest is the semi auto pistol which Lawmen never have iirc.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Probably not as the fastest is the semi auto pistol which Lawmen never have iirc

Fair. I do know they for sure have the Lancaster repeater though

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Okay correction actually I found the scene now



So this is fine for dynamite AP justication this would just need its own calc tho as its not V. Frag nor does it have the same dimensions, regular frag would work tho

But otherwise everything I said still stands

An explosion fragments a wall there. I dunno if I'd label it as V. Frag or Frag, I think it's a borderline case, but it does have that sort of destructive capacity. Whether that would scale to Arthur or not, I couldn't say- if what you said is true and that dynamite instantly kills you if you're right next to it, then I'd agree that we have no business making this scale to Arthur.

Vzearr is literally ignoring that Bambu the creator of the calc said its fine. The actual calc itself isn't the issue, it's a standard feat and we have a standard feat page for a reason. The scaling on the other hand is a different subject.

I don't know if it got quoted here but just in case it didn't, I said that I don't know if that hole that was busted would match the dimensions of a door 1:1 and it might bear its own calc (as it might go low enough to be just Wall level, sans plus sign, or high enough to be Small Building level, with very minimal variations). I also wouldn't recommend using "reinforced steel", whatever that may be referring to in this case, unless something was specifically stated.

Literally just clipped this myself in game


Like be real man

...ah. Yeah, no scaling to dynamite for physicals.

 

[Dalesean027]

An explosion fragments a wall there. I dunno if I'd label it as V. Frag or Frag, I think it's a borderline case, but it does have that sort of destructive capacity. Whether that would scale to Arthur or not, I couldn't say- if what you said is true and that dynamite instantly kills you if you're right next to it, then I'd agree that we have no business making this scale to Arthur

Yeah I have that among two other feats calculated here now

Red Dead Redemption 2 Calc compilation

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also @LordGinSama I did use the round velocity instead

Arthur can dodge gunshots out of deadeye as well, which should probably be calced (In particular 3:45 and 8:25). It should be noted it doesnt matter what gun the NPC has, some law even carry lancaster rifles, so I think it would be fair to use the fastest guns in RDR, as he can dodge them regardless.

This isn't how that works, you can't just arbitrarily scale him to any of the fastest guns in the verse without video proof of him dodging them and even then it'd need a calc so no I'm not just going to sub in a completely different round for the scenario unless you get the clip since that's not how the wiki operates.


Otherwise I reviewed the footage from there and neither are actual bullrt dodges, the first one the guy just missed because Arthur was already sprinting (Arthur doesn't even react to the round), the second clip is where I can see your confusion but watching frame by frame he is practically statued by the bullet and is only able to turn his upper body what looks like maybe 20~30 degrees which would yield likely lower results than what we see here already

 

[LordGinSama]

Aye Dale what about this? He's seemingly able to react to Maxim Gun shots to avoid them. Happens at 2:30 if you wanna review it, not sure if it's 100% dodging but you could probably get something out of it.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

This isn't how that works, you can't just arbitrarily scale him to any of the fastest guns in the verse without video proof of him dodging them and even then it'd need a calc so no I'm not just going to sub in a completely different round for the scenario unless you get the clip since that's not how the wiki operates.


Otherwise I reviewed the footage from there and neither are actual bullrt dodges, the first one the guy just missed because Arthur was already sprinting (Arthur doesn't even react to the round), the second clip is where I can see your confusion but watching frame by frame he is practically statued by the bullet and is only able to turn his upper body what looks like maybe 20~30 degrees which would yield likely lower results than what we see here already

If you start the first clip at 3:44 and slow down the video, he does react and move his head away from the bullet. As for NPCs having a Lancaster rifle, I can get that later. The second one can definitely use a calculation since your calcs use feats under Dead Eye. Here he is performing them without the need for it so it would fall under his normal stats,

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I should also add we should get KLOL to comment here as he applied the current speed stats to him via this (52:04)

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

As this is an AP thread, I will add that Arthur can kill the legendary bison with a few kicks and punches, which are obviously larger than ones in real life which can take attacks from other bisons. So Arthur should scale to its AP or Durability of 120936.0575 joules, which would be a lowball as this would obviously be bigger than the ones irl.

Need more thoughts on this, by the way, he clearly can just kill them so he should scale

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah Lawmen spawn in the game using different weapons. Sometimes they have carbines, Lancasters, cattlemen revolvers or shotguns depending on your bounty level iirc. If it's real low they essentially pull up strapped like Rambo.

 

[Dalesean027]

I should also add we should get KLOL to comment here as he applied the current speed stats to him via this (52:04)

This was already addressed in the deadeye crt that you were there for... that doesn't work
Post in thread 'Red Dead Redemption: Eagle-Eye & Dead-Eye.' https://vsbattles.com/threads/red-dead-redemption-eagle-eye-dead-eye.163657/post-6325836

Yeah Lawmen spawn in the game using different weapons. Sometimes they have carbines, Lancasters, cattlemen revolvers or shotguns depending on your bounty level iirc. If it's real low they essentially pull up strapped like Rambo.

We all get that, get clips of said feats and sure but otherwise not just smacking a new value over something that used an entirely different weapon

 

[LordGinSama]

We all get that, get clips of said feats and sure but otherwise not just smacking a new value over something that used an entirely different weapon

Fair enough I'll dig for some clips. Would the Quickdraw fights also help since that involves actively blitzing people? Dead-Eye let's you fire off multiple shots before people can reach for their guns. Aside from that what do you think of the updated proposals?


Also found another TNT feat which might be better to use here, found it in chapter 4 during the bank robbery. I only say this since KLOL was pretty Adamant about using Editor mode for the steel wall feat since we'd get a much cleaner shot of the destruction.

 

[Dalesean027]

Quickdraw fights also help since that involves actively blitzing people? Dead-Eye let's you fire off multiple shots before people can reach for their guns. Aside from that what do you think of the updated proposals?

I mean its not that its not good but irl there are extremely skilled people who can and have done this same exact feat of drawing and shooting in 0.15 seconds

See here at 4:47 onwards, he shoots 5 targets in less than a second on a draw

 

[LordGinSama]

I mean its not that its not good but irl there are extremely skilled people who can and have done this same exact feat of drawing and shooting in 0.15 seconds

See here at 4:47 onwards, he shoots 5 targets in less than a second on a draw

To be fair those are stationary inanimate objects. A lil different since Arthur is shooting people with comparable speed (outside of Dead-Eye.) multiple times before they can draw. Tbh doesn't really matter what the yield is, I'm more so just interested in the feat itself.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

This was already addressed in the deadeye crt that you were there for... that doesn't work
Post in thread 'Red Dead Redemption: Eagle-Eye & Dead-Eye.' https://vsbattles.com/threads/red-dead-redemption-eagle-eye-dead-eye.163657/post-6325836

What was the exact response you are referring too? If it's Dutch killing John, then I responded to that in the thread, and you never replied back to it. What KLOL was referring to in particular was Micah shooting John and John managing to run away and hide behind some stuff without getting hit.

Also, I think the speed stuff is probably derailing atp, and should be handled in another thread and we should focus on the AP here. In particular Arthur (and probably John) being able to kill the legendary bison with punches and kicks, and the durability feats mentioned in the threads such as Dutch and Arthur jumping off a cliff, highspeed crashes into rocks and trees, etc.

 

[LordGinSama]

Police in Saint Denis can actually spawn with the fastest pistols like the semi auto pistol and the Mauser. So we'd just need to find a clip of that, although personally speaking i think a end using the fastest weapons in the game would be fair as a possibility since they do spawn with those weapons fairly often.

 

[Dalesean027]

To be fair those are stationary inanimate objects. A lil different since Arthur is shooting people with comparable speed (outside of Dead-Eye.) multiple times before they can draw. Tbh doesn't really matter what the yield is, I'm more so just interested in the feat itself.

Mostly regular people tbh for like 90% of people in the game but otherwise yeah I'm not knocking the feat at all anyways just saying on paper for the most part it's something that can be done by some of the fastest people irl going by his regular draws

What KLOL was referring to in particular was Micah shooting John and John managing to run away and hide behind some stuff without getting hit.

This specifcally was in the link there and addressed on the last crt

Also, I think the speed stuff is probably derailing atp

That's fine just letting be known since ya brought it up

 

[LordGinSama]

Anyway Zenkai is right in that this is derailing. We can deal with speed in a separate thread so now it's best to focus on the point of this thread such as AP and durability.


I've provided a good basis for scaling for the time being till the falls are calculated.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Anyway Zenkai is right in that this is derailing. We can deal with speed in a separate thread so now it's best to focus on the point of this thread such as AP and durability.


I've provided a good basis for scaling for the time being till the falls are calculated.

Should probably add the legendary bison feat in the OP along with the high speed crashes and the cliff falls.

 

[LordGinSama]

Should probably add the legendary bison feat in the OP along with the high speed crashes and the cliff falls.

I have the Legendary Bison feat in the OP and as for the others I'd need calculations. If they aren't calculated we're stuck in the same place we currently are, I.E a bunch of feats that can't be quantified due to not having any calcs so it's essentially just slapping on random tiers which I don't vibe with.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Isn't the legendary bison stuff above where he currently is anyway? Would be somewhat of an upgrade at least.

 

[LordGinSama]

Isn't the legendary bison stuff above where he currently is anyway? Would be somewhat of an upgrade at least.

Right now he's baseline so yeah this would be an upgrade. The other tnt feat I provided also can be calculated with the inverse square law since it was a pretty big explosion and while he wasn't right in front of it he was still caught in the explosion radius to a degree.


Can't say it'll be anything noteworthy however.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

As this is an AP thread, I will add that Arthur can kill the legendary bison with a few kicks and punches, which are obviously larger than ones in real life which can take attacks from other bisons. So Arthur should scale to its AP or Durability of 120936.0575 joules, which would be a lowball as this would obviously be bigger than the ones irl.

Arthur can dodge gunshots out of deadeye as well, which should probably be calced (In particular 3:45 and 8:25). It should be noted it doesnt matter what gun the NPC has, some law even carry lancaster rifles, so I think it would be fair to use the fastest guns in RDR, as he can dodge them regardless.

Wouldn't that just be game mechanics?

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Not at all, he's just physically reacting to the gunshots, it would become game mechanics if it was UI shit, which it's not, game mechanics in these kinda games would be things like Aim Assist. Otherwise we'd be downgrading countless amount of feats in shooting games like this.

Either way, lets please keep speed out of the discussion from now on and focus on the main point of the thread which is the AP.

 

[LordGinSama]

Wouldn't that just be game mechanics?

No since you still kill them. Hunting legendary animals has no impact or cutscenes but they're still canon. You can kill the Legendary Animals in a few ways, not all of them include firearms. such as Arthur being able to kill bears with poisoned blades.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Arthur can dodge gunshots out of deadeye as well, which should probably be calced (In particular 3:45 and 8:25). It should be noted it doesnt matter what gun the NPC has, some law even carry lancaster rifles, so I think it would be fair to use the fastest guns in RDR, as he can dodge them regardless.

Looking at 3:45, genuinely can't determine what you're referring to as dodging here- some shots are missing, and Arthur is moving, but he's actively being hit in and around this point, too, and nothing he's doing seems to imply active dodging. Ditto with 8:25, although you'd be forgiven for reaching the conclusion he's dodging- but in reality, it's not like he's fighting superhumans here, and even in real life one could dodge gunfire by just running perpendicular to it- most people aren't hitting 100% of the time anyways, and an awkwardly moving target complicates things a lot.

I would not consider either of these legitimate for a bullet dodging feat.

The bison thing might be a bit tenuous but it comes down to in-game questions so I can't offer much on that, having never played the game before.

 

[LordGinSama]

The bison thing might be a bit tenuous but it comes down to in-game questions so I can't offer much on that, having never played the game before.

No matter how you kill Legendary Animals you can still kill them at the end of the day. You'll always get a perfect pelt, no matter what weapon is used.

For instance you can drop them with explosive rounds with a few well placed rounds or you can use knives, throwing knives or meele weapons. Seems a lot like Yor's feat from Spy X Family whenever she killed a bull with her hands although she had pain in her fingers while Arthur can do the same without any real pain in his hands. Should be furthered by him killing a robot made of titanium in hand to hand combat without breaking bones.

 

[Dalesean027]

Seems a lot like Yor's feat from Spy X Family whenever she killed a bull with her hands although she had pain in her fingers while Arthur can do the same without any real pain in his hands.

Huh?

 

[LordGinSama]

Huh?

Boom

 

[Dalesean027]

Boom

What does this even mean man? lets get back to red dead.

 

[LordGinSama]

What does this even mean man? lets get back to red dead.

Fair enough . Although I still I imagine Loid and Arthur being gigachad bar buddies.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Looking at 3:45, genuinely can't determine what you're referring to as dodging here- some shots are missing, and Arthur is moving, but he's actively being hit in and around this point, too, and nothing he's doing seems to imply active dodging. Ditto with 8:25, although you'd be forgiven for reaching the conclusion he's dodging- but in reality, it's not like he's fighting superhumans here, and even in real life one could dodge gunfire by just running perpendicular to it- most people aren't hitting 100% of the time anyways, and an awkwardly moving target complicates things a lot.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1197397041798729770/1201767751040110653/SmartSelect_20240130_185459_YouTube.gif?ex=65cb046f&is=65b88f6f&hm=21937ed90b6e8625c68185e873f3ded3f7dfc59baae76ddb29a8865f4296ce87&

He does move his head out of the way starting at 3:44 in this slowed down clip, much like other instances. He can also do the same on horse back, he doesn't react when they just completely miss either, his head moving out of the way can happen during any gun fight if hes walking and not looking (4:28:23), sprinting or even on horse back. Him not actively dodging just means he can't dodge that many like some UI shit since there's hoards of people after him

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Also uh, we still need AP calcs for the other stuff Gin suggested.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1197397041798729770/1201767751040110653/SmartSelect_20240130_185459_YouTube.gif?ex=65cb046f&is=65b88f6f&hm=21937ed90b6e8625c68185e873f3ded3f7dfc59baae76ddb29a8865f4296ce87&

He does move his head out of the way starting at 3:44 in this slowed down clip, much like other instances. He can also do the same on horse back, he doesn't react when they just completely miss either, his head moving out of the way can happen during any gun fight if hes walking and not looking (4:28:23), sprinting or even on horse back. Him not actively dodging just means he can't dodge that many like some UI shit since there's hoards of people after him

He moves his head preemptively, yeah, because it's not like he's actively trying to be shot.

Let's be clear that Arthur cannot dodge bullets. In a one-frame timespan, a bullet goes from not being shot to traveling past him somewhere out of frame.

Arthur can't dodge bullets. Him moving a little bit isn't proof of him doing something he provably can't do.

 

[Dalesean027]

He moves his head preemptively, yeah, because it's not like he's actively trying to be shot.

Let's be clear that Arthur cannot dodge bullets. In a one-frame timespan, a bullet goes from not being shot to traveling past him somewhere out of frame.

Arthur can't dodge bullets. Him moving a little bit isn't proof of him doing something he provably can't do.

Agreed I've already said these don't qualify above as well.

 

[LordGinSama]

He moves his head preemptively, yeah, because it's not like he's actively trying to be shot.

Let's be clear that Arthur cannot dodge bullets. In a one-frame timespan, a bullet goes from not being shot to traveling past him somewhere out of frame.

Arthur can't dodge bullets. Him moving a little bit isn't proof of him doing something he provably can't do.

With Dead-Eye he can avoid and dodge bullets. The Red Dead Online character that Arthur and John scale to can also outright avoid bullets.


Arthur himself while infected with TB has been able to avoid bullets fired by Maximum guns as I've linked before. Military soldiers are also capable of evading bullets by moving their head.