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Problems with Courage Tier 4

DimeUhDozen

DimeUhDozen

She/Her
5,634
4,188
Some problems with this were addressed in this CRT, but that wasn't really the point of the CRT, so I figured it would be best to address them here. Let's go off of this piece by piece.



Eustace's Durability:

We have the feat where Eustace turns into a constellation except that's not quite what happens. Here is the feat in question. As we can see, it's not that he turns into a constellation. He merely toon forces himself into a firework that looks like a constellation. We don't have any reason to say that it is comparable to the size of a real constellation or stars for that matter. Speaking of stars...



Courage holding a star:

Here, Courage holds a star. But as we can see, the star is not nearly as large as Courage is and is actually smaller. It is not comparable to a real star.



The Shadow's Star Transformation:

This one is a bit more legit, with a calc and everything, but this is a transformation feat, meaning that Eustace surviving a bite from him is moot since he is comparable to him only in an untransformed state.



Courage's Star Scream (no not from Transformers):

Oh look! A feat from Courage that's actually valid! In this feat, Courage screams so hard that with a little bit of toon force, it shatters the sun. But. The way the profile presents this is problematic. Only Courage's scream would scale to this and the strength of these screams tend to vary anyways. So at peak screaming power, we could say that Courage is Large Star level, right? Well, in the previously mentioned CRT and one more focused on this feat, mods and calc members alike seem to agree that this is baseline 4-C at best. So we should change his AP to 4-C with Scream.



But that's okay, because Courage has Dwarf Star level durability for the moon feat, anyways, right?

Well..........



The Moon Feat:

Though Muriel and Courage are smashed through the moon, the moon shown in the feat is considerably smaller than ours. Muriel seems half as big as it. So, the calc has to be redone accounting for size.

You could scale this to the alien who smacks them with it, but this would be a bit of an outlier.




So, we can safely put our dog at 8-A and be done with this CR-...

...

What do you mean the calc is outdated?

Oh boy.



Oh Boy:

So. The 8-A calc for Courage's durability... wasn't even accepted. Not only that. But it proposes Town Level results.



So What DO We Have?:

We do have ONE good calc for the verse. This one for a crater made by Robot Randy, whom Eustace... barely survived an attack from, and at least had the strength to keep standing and regen from. So, essentially, the whole verse downscales from this at Large Town Level. I'm so sorry, Courage, but your profile needs to be fixed.

Edit: Yeah nah, we don't even have that.

To make things clear here, I actually downgraded Courage from High 7-C, considering that he never even harmed Robot Randy at all and Robot Randy is literally portrayed to be way stronger than him. So Courage shouldn't really scale at all.
Click to expand...

We can't scale him to anything unless a calc is made.

Agree: Accelerated_Evolution, Propellus, DarkDragonMedeus (3)
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
Last edited:
DimeUhDozen said:
So What DO We Have?:

We do have ONE good calc for the verse. This one for a crater made by Robot Randy, whom Eustace... barely survived an attack from, and at least had the strength to keep standing and regen from. So, essentially, the whole verse downscales from this at Large Town Level. I'm so sorry, Courage, but your profile needs to be fixed.
Click to expand...
To make things clear here, I actually downgraded Courage from High 7-C, considering that he never even harmed Robot Randy at all and Robot Randy is literally portrayed to be way stronger than him. So Courage shouldn't really scale at all.
 
Propellus said:
To make things clear here, I actually downgraded Courage from High 7-C, considering that he never even harmed Robot Randy at all and Robot Randy is literally portrayed to be way stronger than him. So Courage shouldn't really scale at all.
Click to expand...
I thought that might be the case, so in that event, we really just do not have any valid Courage calcs to scale him to.
 
DimeUhDozen said:
I thought that might be the case, so in that event, we really just do not have any valid Courage calcs to scale him to.
Click to expand...
We might as well start requesting some feats calced then. As I recall Courage surviving a bank explosion one time
 
Makes a lot of sense, I think courage having 4-C AP with screaming makes a lot of sense than being outright 4-C. I agree, good catch
 
DimeUhDozen said:
So. The 8-A calc for Courage's durability... wasn't even accepted. Not only that. But it proposes Town Level results.
Click to expand...
So about this. IIRC, I think I remember Amelia Lonelyheart (Former calc group member formerly known as Darkanine) accepting this calc only for her comment to be removed when she changed her name.

That being said, KE rules are apparently broken in this feat since the damage caused by Courage crashing to the ground doesn't reflect on his apparent KE.

DimeUhDozen said:
Though Muriel and Courage are smashed through the moon, the moon shown in the feat is considerably smaller than ours. Muriel seems half as big as it. So, the calc has to be redone accounting for size.

You could scale this to the alien who smacks them with it, but this would be a bit of an outlier.
Click to expand...
I think the feat is honestly still usable with the moon's regular diameter being used. Given this was a show that ran from 1999 to 2002, these types of cartoons around that era aren't the best in trying to portray their sizes correctly.

As for the feat of the alien smacking the meteor, although the math is correct, it feels like they forgot to account for surface area since Courage, Muriel, and Eustace would only be getting hit by a part of the meteor since its surface area is much bigger than them.
 
Last edited:
Tbh even if Scoob is higher than Courage, they both have toon force regen so they'd both be incredibly hard to put down.

Anyways, changes have been applied, so this can be closed.
 
OP looks good, though I’m kinda curious how that tiny star holding feat was ever accepted as Tier 4.
 
Propellus said:
Any thoughts on what's above on how it could be evaluated or for a re-calc?
Click to expand...
Video linked in the calc is dead, I'd need to see it for funkiness.
 
Propellus said:
Gotchu.

(Could I reopen the thread as nobody seems to give much discussion to this feat for some reason? as it felt rather premature that it got closed before proper discussion)
Click to expand...
Could reopen, yeah.

Tearing through the moon, even at such a small size, would almost definitely be 9-A. Being shot out of a howitzer and making impact is probably also at least higher in 9-B- eyeballing it, more likely around baseline 9-A, I figure. Granted, it may be a too-generous assumption to assume normal large-cannon speeds but I think it's probably fine, personally.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Could reopen, yeah.

Tearing through the moon, even at such a small size, would almost definitely be 9-A. Being shot out of a howitzer and making impact is probably also at least higher in 9-B- eyeballing it, more likely around baseline 9-A, I figure. Granted, it may be a too-generous assumption to assume normal large-cannon speeds but I think it's probably fine, personally.
Click to expand...
I see. I reopened the thread
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Tearing through the moon, even at such a small size, would almost definitely be 9-A.
Click to expand...
But that's dependent on how fast the character was going per second while going through the moon with their frontal surface area getting hit through it. Now, passing through the moon in less than a second and moving multiple chunks as a result? That's definitely higher than 9-A even at a small size.
 
Did you see the size of the moon?
 
Oh.

Then yeah I'd just straight up disagree with that sentiment lol. It seems like a deliberate choice to me- it's not like they had to render the full thing, it's just a silly drawing with an extra-small moon.

Fully against that.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Oh.

Then yeah I'd just straight up disagree with that sentiment lol. It seems like a deliberate choice to me- it's not like they had to render the full thing, it's just a silly drawing with an extra-small moon.

Fully against that.
Click to expand...
Unless it was explicitly stated that the moon is smaller than ours rather than what we see of the moon's size in the scene (Unless this is consistent), I don't see any problem using the full size of the moon.
 
Psychomaster35 said:
Unless it was explicitly stated that the moon is smaller than ours rather than what we see of the moon's size in the scene (Unless this is consistent), I don't see any problem using the full size of the moon.
Click to expand...
I do, we can't just pretend it's a full-sized moon in the face of explicit evidence. There's literally no basis for doing the thing you're suggesting.
 
There is something I have to note about this.
His screams can also do any notable damage to himself, noticing how in The Magic Tree of Nowhere, he literally screamed hard enough to the point where his skin rips into numerous pieces to the point where he's just a skeleton.
Not sure what to say about all these however but I do think Courage should atleast be somewhere higher than Wall Level when it comes to durability.
Since dude survived a building collapsing (it's also worth noting he was inside said building) during the ending scene of Ball of Revenge to the point where the entire house is destroyed. Meaning Courage's durability should atleast be higher. Again, as for everything else you listed here, I don't know how I should feel about this but I feel like the building collapsing durability is worth noting to see what you think.
 
DimeUhDozen said:
Some problems with this were addressed in this CRT, but that wasn't really the point of the CRT, so I figured it would be best to address them here. Let's go off of this piece by piece.



Eustace's Durability:

We have the feat where Eustace turns into a constellation except that's not quite what happens. Here is the feat in question. As we can see, it's not that he turns into a constellation. He merely toon forces himself into a firework that looks like a constellation. We don't have any reason to say that it is comparable to the size of a real constellation or stars for that matter. Speaking of stars...



Courage holding a star:

Here, Courage holds a star. But as we can see, the star is not nearly as large as Courage is and is actually smaller. It is not comparable to a real star.



The Shadow's Star Transformation:

This one is a bit more legit, with a calc and everything, but this is a transformation feat, meaning that Eustace surviving a bite from him is moot since he is comparable to him only in an untransformed state.



Courage's Star Scream (no not from Transformers):

Oh look! A feat from Courage that's actually valid! In this feat, Courage screams so hard that with a little bit of toon force, it shatters the sun. But. The way the profile presents this is problematic. Only Courage's scream would scale to this and the strength of these screams tend to vary anyways. So at peak screaming power, we could say that Courage is Large Star level, right? Well, in the previously mentioned CRT and one more focused on this feat, mods and calc members alike seem to agree that this is baseline 4-C at best. So we should change his AP to 4-C with Scream.



But that's okay, because Courage has Dwarf Star level durability for the moon feat, anyways, right?

Well..........



The Moon Feat:

Though Muriel and Courage are smashed through the moon, the moon shown in the feat is considerably smaller than ours. Muriel seems half as big as it. So, the calc has to be redone accounting for size.

You could scale this to the alien who smacks them with it, but this would be a bit of an outlier.




So, we can safely put our dog at 8-A and be done with this CR-...

...

What do you mean the calc is outdated?

Oh boy.



Oh Boy:

So. The 8-A calc for Courage's durability... wasn't even accepted. Not only that. But it proposes Town Level results.



So What DO We Have?:

We do have ONE good calc for the verse. This one for a crater made by Robot Randy, whom Eustace... barely survived an attack from, and at least had the strength to keep standing and regen from. So, essentially, the whole verse downscales from this at Large Town Level. I'm so sorry, Courage, but your profile needs to be fixed.

Edit: Yeah nah, we don't even have that.



We can't scale him to anything unless a calc is made.

Agree: Accelerated_Evolution, Propellus, DarkDragonMedeus (3)
Disagree:
Neutral:
Click to expand...
I agree, I wanted to comment on this for a while and have told people about these issues more recently. Courage and Muriel busting through the moon should actually be High 6-A but I haven’t posted the calc for that so the downgrade is fine.
 
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