Red Dead Revisions part 3: AP

[Dalesean027]

Aye Dale what about this? He's seemingly able to react to Maxim Gun shots to avoid them. Happens at 2:30 if you wanna review it, not sure if it's 100% dodging but you could probably get something out of it.

Arthur himself while infected with TB has been able to avoid bullets fired by Maximum guns as I've linked before. Military soldiers are also capable of evading bullets by moving their head.

Also not a valid feat btw, the first shots literally cover the entire distsnce before he can react and hit the walls around him instantly plus a bunch other people also laid onto the ground as well.


Ya gotta stop treating regular people like they're gonna be hitting 1000% of their shots with superhuman accuracy they were simply spraying and praying but missed, every bullet is clearly so far above them in this clip

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Could I see a clip of the dead-eye dodging stuff? I admit I haven't looked at those for myself.

 

[Dalesean027]

Could I see a clip of the dead-eye dodging stuff? I admit I haven't looked at those for myself.

My blog sir but it only applies to base game and not online and it can only be done with deadeye and at range

Red Dead Redemption 2 Calc compilation

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Mr. Bambu]

for gods' sake, don't call me sir again

The clips aren't in YouTube format so I can't exactly use framebyframe for it, but one can eyeball and say that they aren't completely disregardable. I don't know if I could bring myself to agree that Arthur is dodging them in a way that's valid for our wiki, but I think a discussion could be had about strictly Deadeye having some level of scaling.

Chock me down as neutral.

 

[Dalesean027]

for gods' sake, don't call me sir again

The clips aren't in YouTube format so I can't exactly use framebyframe for it, but one can eyeball and say that they aren't completely disregardable. I don't know if I could bring myself to agree that Arthur is dodging them in a way that's valid for our wiki, but I think a discussion could be had about strictly Deadeye having some level of scaling.

Chock me down as neutral.

The first one is an aimdodge its only calculating the perceptions not his motion, otherwise the last one in the blog he dodges after the bullet is fired albeit with barely any motion

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Chock me down as neutral.

For the next thread, sure. This one is primarly for AP but a huge speed discussion started.

 

[Dalesean027]

strictly Deadeye having some level of scaling.

This is what I'd say, not his normal speed

 

[Mr. Bambu]

For the next thread, sure. This one is primarly for AP but a huge speed discussion started.

Yeah, sure. Shit was mentioned here, so I figure it wise to take a gander now. When the thread is formally made, I assume I'll be contacted to speak on it (beats working on some ******' anime thread, at least) but you can list me as neutral immediately if there's nothing more to it than what I've seen.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Well for staff commenting now, the updated arguments that need to be evaluated are

Arthur getting a "higher" next to his durability with Dead Eye as it reduces damage he takes while it is activated.
Arthur being able to kill the legendary bison in a few hits, which is larger than than bisons IRL making his AP scale to it.

And @LordGinSama Had some calc requests iirc like this for TNT and Dutch and Arthur jumping off a cliff into water

Edit: One more thing is LGS said something about KE for the legendary bear? Which weighs around 1000 pounds

 

[Dalesean027]

Edit: One more thing is LGS said something about KE for the legendary bear? Which weighs around 1000 pounds

Just use a grizzly bear tbh since that's the closest thing irl and they literally weigh the same

Grizzly Bear

The Grizzly Bear is a subspecies of the Brown Bear found mostly in North America.[1] It is noted for being one of the largest subspecies of bears. These types of bears are omnivores. They eat plants (Mostly seeds, berries, roots, grasses), fungi and meat (Mostly deer, elk, fish, dead animals...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Grizzly Bear Facts | Yellowstone Wildlife Guide

www.nathab.com

Its legit just street level~street+


The jump also is something replicatable by irl humans btw

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well for staff commenting now, the updated arguments that need to be evaluated are

Arthur getting a "higher" next to his durability with Dead Eye as it reduces damage he takes while it is activated.
Arthur being able to kill the legendary bison in a few hits, which is larger than than bisons IRL making his AP scale to it.

And @LordGinSama Had some calc requests iirc like this for TNT and Dutch and Arthur jumping off a cliff into water

Edit: One more thing is LGS said something about KE for the legendary bear? Which weighs around 1000 pounds

Just call DeadEye damage reduction and call it a day, his durability isn't increasing. This is a nitpick, of course, but I know abilities that are specifically damage reduction bypasses, so it's a nitpick worth making.

I don't know about the bison thing, already mentioned that'n.

And uh... calc requests, gee, good luck. I already hit my calc quota for 2024 in December doing Magnagothica: Maleghast stuff.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Otherwise we'd be downgrading countless amount of feats in shooting games like this.

I don't mind that at all because I don't agree with this kind of "feats"

 

[LordGinSama]

Just use a grizzly bear tbh since that's the closest thing irl and they literally weigh the same

Grizzly Bear

The Grizzly Bear is a subspecies of the Brown Bear found mostly in North America.[1] It is noted for being one of the largest subspecies of bears. These types of bears are omnivores. They eat plants (Mostly seeds, berries, roots, grasses), fungi and meat (Mostly deer, elk, fish, dead animals...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Grizzly Bear Facts | Yellowstone Wildlife Guide

www.nathab.com

Its legit just street level~street+

First of all that's false since the Legendary Animals significantly out weight their irl counterparts. The Legendary Bear is canonically bigger and heavier than the rest of the brown / grizzly bears in the game.

The jump also is something replicatable by irl humans btw

Which one? There's a few jumping feats but in most cases humans die in that case.

 

[Dalesean027]

First of all that's false since the Legendary Animals significantly out weight their irl counterparts. The Legendary Bear is canonically bigger and heavier than the rest of the brown / grizzly bears in the game.

1000 pounds isn't remotely close to being too big for irl counterparts

 

[LordGinSama]

1000 pounds isn't remotely close to being too big for irl counterparts

It's never stated the Legendary Bear weights 1000 pounds.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

It's never stated the Legendary Bear weights 1000 pounds.

It is stated by Hosea that it is "around 1000 pounds I reckon", but that's obviously wrong, and he's not a good source for that since he wouldn't know that's what regular grizzly can reach, which already exist in the verse

Anyway wouldn't his durability just scale to its piercing damage anyway and it's KE since he can get pushed down and mauled and still survive for a prolonged amount of time and then heal back up like nothing happened.

 

[LordGinSama]

It is stated by Hosea that it is "around 1000 pounds I reckon", but that's obviously wrong, and he's not a good source for that since he wouldn't know that's what regular grizzly can reach, which already exist in the verse.

Yeah definitely wouldn't consider him a valid source. Maybe if Charles made the statement since he's a much more experienced hunter than Hosea.

Anyway wouldn't his durability just scale to its piercing damage anyway and it's KE since he can get pushed down and mauled and still survive for a prolonged amount of time and then heal back up like nothing happened.

Probably but I'd say the Legendary Bison would be better for it's KE.

 

[Dalesean027]

It is stated by Hosea that it is "around 1000 pounds I reckon", but that's obviously wrong, and he's not a good source for that since he wouldn't know that's what regular grizzly can reach, which already exist in the verse

This really doesn't work as reasoning against his claim at all besides your average grizzly male is 700 pounds tops usually so 1000 pounds is notably larger than normal


Bears are a no go here just use the bison

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Ig along with the bison and while it would be lower than it probably, could also scale John and Arthur to the KE of cattle as they can tank being rammed at by cattle and being stepped over while they are running (1:04 to 1:15)

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Can I get a TL;DR? Which calcs were accepted, rejected, etc?

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Can I get a TL;DR? Which calcs were accepted, rejected, etc?

Most of the thread got a little bit off topic with speed related stuff so you can ignore most of that for the purposes of this thread. The wall+ stuff was rejected and in place was Dale's blog here for dynamite https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dalesean027/Red_Dead_Redemption_2_Calc_compilation
However, we still need a calc for a greater dynamite feat which Gin posted, and uh so far no one is willing to calc it, i've asked some calc members though

The things that need to be evaluated are Arthur being able to kill the legendary bison with 7 punches/kicks which would make his AP >>>> Bison's durability (Dale said we can use it, Bambu said he doesnt have an opinion on it), and John (and by extension Arthur) being able to tank being rammed at by Cattle and so their durability would scale to its KE. That and the lifting strength stuff present in the OP

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Most of the thread got a little bit off topic with speed related stuff so you can ignore most of that for the purposes of this thread. The wall+ stuff was rejected and in place was Dale's blog here for dynamite https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dalesean027/Red_Dead_Redemption_2_Calc_compilation

Nice, so we've got a Wall level feat to use. Obviously I'm fine with that assuming the calc's good to go.

However, we still need a calc for a greater dynamite feat which Gin posted, and uh so far no one is willing to calc it, i've asked some calc members though

Sweet, hopefully it gets done soon. I'd have loved to help, but I'm ass when it comes to calcs.

The things that need to be evaluated are Arthur being able to kill the legendary bison with 7 punches/kicks which would make his AP >>>> Bison's durability (Dale said we can use it, Bambu said he doesnt have an opinion on it),

Ummm, I suppose I'm fine with that, too.

and John (and by extension Arthur) being able to tank being rammed at by Cattle and so their durability would scale to its KE.

Ehhh, tbh I'm not too sure about this since even IRL people can survive stuff like this. It kinda depends on where you're hit, the angle at which you're hit, etc. But I'm not inherently opposed to it either. Call me neutral on this for now.

That and the lifting strength stuff present in the OP

Hmmmmmm
Him lifting the animals to skin them sounds iffy to me because he's not, like, lifting their entire mass there. Although, maybe someone can calc what percentage of their bodies is being lifted?
Also, he does carry some carcasses from what I remember, right? If I'm not wrong about that, then maybe we can use that instead?

Finally, him holding the bison off with his lasso sounds fine to me personally. Unless there's some scientific reason for him not countering their full mass there or something.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Ehhh, tbh I'm not too sure about this since even IRL people can survive stuff like this. It kinda depends on where you're hit, the angle at which you're hit, etc. But I'm not inherently opposed to it either. Call me neutral on this for now.

Irl people get damaged in significant ways, john in the clip above just falls over and is sligjtly agitated with no visable damage. The clip for the feat is above

 

[SeijiSetto]

being rammed by smth doesn't necessarily mean you scale to its KE
a person who gets hit by a car and is stuck to it doesn't tank the full KE of the car (otherwise it would stop moving on the spot)
linear momentum is a thing, m1v1 = (m1 + m2)v2
m1 is the bison's mass, v1 is its velocity, m2 is Arthur or whoever gets hit by it's mass, solve for v2 and then use THAT as your velocity to find out how much KE Arthur has as a result of being hit

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

being rammed by smth doesn't necessarily mean you scale to its KE
a person who gets hit by a car and is stuck to it doesn't tank the full KE of the car (otherwise it would stop moving on the spot)
linear momentum is a thing, m1v1 = (m1 + m2)v2
m1 is the bison's mass, v1 is its velocity, m2 is Arthur or whoever gets hit by it's mass, solve for v2 and then use THAT as your velocity to find out how much KE Arthur has as a result of being hit

if you could do it then it would be appreciated (1:04 to 1:15). Cattle btw

 

[Dalesean027]

Nice, so we've got a Wall level feat to use. Obviously I'm fine with that assuming the calc's good to go

Nope it was established already dynamite doesn't scale and is an instant kill so it doesn't scale to anyones physicals otherwise thats his ap via explosives

Bison's durability (Dale said we can use it,

I said the bison would be the way to go over the bear in the sense that it has better stats, I didn't say this was fine I'd say im neutral on that as well

being rammed by smth doesn't necessarily mean you scale to its KE
a person who gets hit by a car and is stuck to it doesn't tank the full KE of the car (otherwise it would stop moving on the spot)
linear momentum is a thing, m1v1 = (m1 + m2)v2
m1 is the bison's mass, v1 is its velocity, m2 is Arthur or whoever gets hit by it's mass, solve for v2 and then use THAT as your velocity to find out how much KE Arthur has as a result of being hit

This too

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Nope it was established already dynamite doesn't scale and is an instant kill so it doesn't scale to anyones physicals otherwise thats his ap via explosives

Makes sense. Then I suppose other feats ought to be calced.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

A damn good game. Anyways, the legendary bison stuff looks good imo

 

[chosen]

Feel like bison ke can maybe be calced but idk if site allows a method for that to be Possible
Otherwise i agree besides being neutral on ls

 

[LordGinSama]

Makes sense. Then I suppose other feats ought to be calced.

We're still waiting on the bigger TNT feat along with some quick draw feats. I'd also day for Dead-Eye the feat of him killing a bunch of men in Dead-Eye before they can move while saving John would be good to look into.

 

[Dalesean027]

We're still waiting on the bigger TNT feat along with some quick draw feats. I'd also day for Dead-Eye the feat of him killing a bunch of men in Dead-Eye before they can move while saving John would be good to look into.

Also found another TNT feat which might be better to use here, found it in chapter 4 during the bank robbery. I only say this since KLOL was pretty Adamant about using Editor mode for the steel wall feat since we'd get a much cleaner shot of the destruction.

I wouldn't call this bigger at all, while its visually bigger its just a layer or 2 of concrete which will be significantly less than the explosion we already have

 

[LordGinSama]

I wouldn't call this bigger at all, while its visually bigger its just a layer or 2 of concrete which will be significantly less than the explosion we already have

Ah well aside from that there's him blowing up a massive anchor on a ship in chapter 6.

 

[Dalesean027]

Ah well aside from that there's him blowing up a massive anchor on a ship in chapter 6.

Got the clip?

 

[LordGinSama]

Got the clip?

Yeah I got you. Starts at 9:33

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah I got you. Starts at 9:33

Eh the cylindrical portion which is the main bit is still completely intact after but the chains attacked to it are destroyed.


We bank feat would be better than this and it may actually be better than I thought at second glance

 

[LordGinSama]

Arthur's durability scales to Low 2-C btw so gg.

 

[chosen]

Arthur's durability scales to Low 2-C btw so gg.

Low 1c bro so even higher

 

[LordGinSama]

Bump.

 

[KingTempest]

This'll cover everything regarding AP, durability and lifting strength. Speed will be dealt with once the speed feats are properly calculated, luckily for us the AP stuff doesn't really require any calculations due to them being mainly general feats that have been calculated already.

Attack Potency and Durability.

---

First things first for Arthur's and John's durability they should receive a "far higher with Dead-Eye." due to Dead-Eye vastly reducing damage done to them when used including headshots.


Secondly Arthur's durability and by extension his AP and SS should be Wall+ for being able to survive tnt blowing up on him without dying. (Keep in mind the feat is already accepted in his profile so it's already accepted, this is just giving it a value.) It does damage him but not to the point of no recovery. A single stick of tnt can fragment a steel wall that's likely reinforced so if anything the yield should be higher but this is a good lowball. Bambu has already calculated the destruction of steel doors this size to be Wall+.


Next best thing would be scaling Arthur above the Legendary Bison, with them being much larger than the IRL counterparts by a significant amount. Arthur can kill the biggest Legendary Bison with 7 strikes with his bare hands so he'd scale above So Arthur should scale above its AP or Durability of 120936.0575 joules, which would be a lowball as this would obviously be bigger than the ones irl.

Arthur is comparable to those who can harm him if not outright stronger than most character in Red Dead.

Lifting strength

---

Now this one is a little iffy but from what I've seen his Lifting strength should be bumped to class 5 due to him being able to lift Legendary Animals to skin them, such as the Legendary White Bison which is many times bigger than the average bison. The American Bison can weigh around 400 to 1,270 kilograms (880 to 2,800 pounds) and all 3 of the Legendary Bison are seemingly much bigger than any records of American Bison, most notably the White Legendary Bison which would need to weight more than usual to survive the harsh cold. climate.

Furthermore Arthur is able to keep them perfectly still while they're resisting till his stamina goes out.

This looks fine to me

 

[Dalesean027]

Bump?

Got clips for any of the things we're waiting on?