Accelerator Revisions and minor Kakine revision

[Scrlk666777]

I agree. I think with the omnidirectional attack there's solid proof but the mind hax is still a bit iffy although there's more proof of it not working than working.

That's true, the strength of his vectors shouldn't really change. Accel's strength also comes from his understanding, the more he understands the stronger he comes but his overall AP shouldn't change imo.

 

[Accelerate420]

His overall AP doesn't really have limits either in all honesty as of right now. His power isn't super conventional, the AP's we have are more or less just place-holders when you consider it. But I wouldn't use words like 'stronger' because some people might see it in a different way. So yeah,. Omnidimensional should definitely stay, since her plan seemed to be to cut the barrier and send the debris through, since she can't actually cut him.

 

[Scrlk666777]

That's true. I shouldn't probably say stronger because that isn't the right. I think it's best to say he can deal with a lot more stuff now. Like for example I don't think pre-headshot Accel would have been able to reflect Coronzon's attack because at that point he didn't understand magic, well he didn't even know of it.

Thinking about it as well, most of the characters that Accel has had some trouble with has been from the magic side but none of it has been due to them being stronger but more because he didn't understand there make-up, Gabriel is a good example of this and Mathers as well.


The limits are now espeically unknown because we haven't truly seen what he can do with the clonoth, platinum wings and the abyss knowledge. It could be so BS to the point that he can decide what is and what is not a vector and can control conceptional and metaphysical things, there's some hint of the former as he did plant a conceptional tree. But yeah there are lots of possibilities.

But getting of topic here, yes, I think you convinced me. I think AP should be scaled back.

By the way no one has said anything about the speed being scaled back which again I think it should be scaled back.

 

[Accelerate420]

Everything should realistically be scaled back in general, not just AP.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I almost forgot to add the AP amping to my post above. On that I can also deal with not adding it although technically he already does this via vector manipulation anyway. Everything is amped by his vector manipulation, be it strength, speed and AP. I mean examples of this are being able to kick a small pebble at a powered up Elizard and rip her apart or being able to make a small drop of water tear through Neph. But I guess there does need to be a limit otherwise it might cause some headaches and most seem to like limits on here which I can understand.

I think the analytical prediction is pretty much accepted. I do agree that Kakine should have it to.

 

[Accelerate420]

Yeah, let's just say 'likely far higher with AP amping' I guess, or just not include the AP amping. I mean, to begin with, he kinda already amps his AP to begin with, he just adds extra amps with magnitude control. I was more surprised at him being stated he could just tear her organs out with a rock than what he did to Neph since her body had regen stuff going on. Saint+++ tier gibbing rocks are definitely scary.

 

[XDragnoir]

I think Accel's tier should be Varies, because he is completely dependent on the vectors he is interacting with, especially pre-HS, only his winged forms are not vector-dependent.

 

[Accelerate420]

Basically. That's a good compromise. Varies, up to Planet level, likely far higher and what not.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yeah, let's just say 'likely far higher with AP amping' I guess, or just not include the AP amping. I mean, to begin with, he kinda already amps his AP to begin with, he just adds extra amps with magnitude control. I was more surprised at him being stated he could just tear her organs out with a rock than what he did to Neph since her body had regen stuff going on. Saint+++ tier gibbing rocks are definitely scary.

I was more thinking how he can use a mere drop of water as a weapon but yeah Saint +++ tier gibbing rocks are a pretty scary concept.

Is the "likely far higher" only for his Pre-headshot? He already has "Likely far higher on his post headshots anyway.

 

[Accelerate420]

Yeah, for Pre-shot too. I mean, I always had a feeling he could. No reason he can't if he can turn electricity and heat into one, right? Speaking of, Accelerator wasn't trying to go for the kill during his Elizard fight but she clearly had no qualms about killing him and was attempting to when she tried slacing at the side of his head. Was this just another Accel vs Kakine thing where he just wanted to show off? I kinda get that feeling when re-reading it.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yeah, Accel was holding back and probably quite a bit since it was pretty much stated twice that he could have easily defeated Elizard if he had wanted to, first with the rock and then with the punch at the end, of which he could have really done at any time. It seemed like he was merely reflecting her attacks and then using the phone/science before finally using his own ability again to defeat her.

Maybe but I think he was showing off in different ways. With Kakine it was pretty much a power show off but with Elizard I think it was a showoff with how much he has changed and showing off the science side.

 

[Accelerate420]

So. I guess all we're waiting on here now is DT, unless anyone has anything else to add? Omnidimensional/direction seems fine, since Elizard has to slash at his barrier since he cannot prevent the debris from coming out instead of inside, everything else seems to check out too. Mind hax may be the only one people are on the fence about but honestly mind-hax should be covered on the basis that it requires transmission to the brain alone.

 

[Malox1696]

So. I guess all we're waiting on here now is DT, unless anyone has anything else to add? Omnidimensional/direction seems fine, since Elizard has to slash at his barrier since he cannot prevent the debris from coming out instead of inside, everything else seems to check out too. Mind hax may be the only one people are on the fence about but honestly mind-hax should be covered on the basis that it requires transmission to the brain alone.

actually the debris never showed up inside accel barrier, and it makes sense as it's teleportation not even form 11th dimension but from 4th

 

[Accelerate420]

Well I think either way no matter how silly Elizard's jobber plan was she couldn't actually slash inside his field and had to slash the barrier itself.

 

[XDragnoir]

actually the debris never showed up inside accel barrier, and it makes sense as it's teleportation not even form 11th dimension but from 4th

Curtana can cut all dimensions from 1 up to 11. And why everyone is talking about the omnidrectional attack? The omnidrectional explosion is one thing the omnidimensional cut is another.

 

[Accelerate420]

Because Curtana operates on cutting spatial coordinates so the fact she can't cut the spatial coordinates inside his field is a big thing.

 

[Scrlk666777]

actually the debris never showed up inside accel barrier, and it makes sense as it's teleportation not even form 11th dimension but from 4th

Curtana can cut all dimensions from 1 up to 11. And why everyone is talking about the omnidrectional attack? The omnidrectional explosion is one thing the omnidimensional cut is another.

Curtana can also cut through all phrases. We are discussing it because it should be noted that something like Curtana, which can not only cut through all dimensions but all phrases to the point it can even cut down to the pure world and even kill Aiwass, can't cut through Accel's reflection and has to find a blind spot, is a big thing.

 

[Malox1696]

i mean it's not that big of adeal, we already knew accel will reflect medium of effect, it's obvious he would reflect curtana itself even if it can slice all, but if u detach the effect from the actual blade then it passes

 

[Accelerate420]

It barely passes is the point. The fact that even if you detatch it, it still can't enter INSIDE his field and needs to enter at the beginning of it, which is sitll a big thing.

 

[Malox1696]

well, yes ? the effect is not instant (has a 1,5 delay) At that moment it could be reflected if not sliced

 

[Scrlk666777]

It can't be sliced, if it could then Elizard wouldn't have needed to find a blindspot, she would have just cut through his reflection. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

 

[Malox1696]

don't get ur point guys ?

is it that an attack can't be made inside accel barrier ? we already know that

 

[Scrlk666777]

The point, at least I'm trying to make, is that not only can't she slice inside his barrier but she can't slice through it either, the same thing that can cut through not only dimensions but phrases, can't cut through his barrier, unless she finds a blindspot, and even this was only a theory on Elizard's part.

This is quite impressive, which was also pointed out in NTR22 as well.

 

[XDragnoir]

I know why you are talking about the All Dimensions Cutting, but that attack is omnidimensional, not omnidirectional.

 

[Malox1696]

The point, at least I'm trying to make, is that not only can't she slice inside his barrier but she can't slice through it either, the same thing that can cut through not only dimensions but phrases, can't cut through his barrier, unless she finds a blindspot, and even this was only a theory on Elizard's part.
This is quite impressive, which was also pointed out in NTR22 as well.

well yes but in practices it just means it just means that the reflection field is unaffected by the medium of an effect

 

[Scrlk666777]

It's not just the medium.

 

[Malox1696]

yes, u get my point

 

[Scrlk666777]

No I don't actually, not if your point is that he can only stop it because he can stop the blade, which is not true.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I know why you are talking about the All Dimensions Cutting, but that attack is omnidimensional, not omnidirectional.

It's actually both but either way it doesn't matter since the main point is it can't get through.

 

[XDragnoir]

No, the All Dimension Cutting is not a 360┬░ attack, so it's not omnidirectional, is just omnidimensional (can cut all spatial dimensions from the 1st to the 11th)

 

[Scrlk666777]

This doesn't change that it's both.

 

[Scrlk666777]

So. I guess all we're waiting on here now is DT, unless anyone has anything else to add? Omnidimensional/direction seems fine, since Elizard has to slash at his barrier since he cannot prevent the debris from coming out instead of inside, everything else seems to check out too. Mind hax may be the only one people are on the fence about but honestly mind-hax should be covered on the basis that it requires transmission to the brain alone.

I missed this earlier. Yes we're just waiting on DT, although we can just ask another staff member. I think most actually are okay with mind hax being added, so not so much on the fench, but I think it's the one that we don't mind sacrificing, although I do have my issues withb doing that, Mainly because I'm tired of seeing the whole "If it hasn't been seen therefore we are saying it works" arguement and with mind hax there's at least some proof of it not working.

 

[XDragnoir]

Btw, add regen negation to post-revival Kakine (up to High) and small size type 7 to Dark Matter particles.

 

[Scrlk666777]

This is an Accel revision post, the only Kakine revision was just the AP which have already been agreed and changed and plus there's still discussion with the on-going revisions already in the OP.

But while I can agree with the Small size type 7. Kakine has never been shown to be able to negate Regenerationn.

 

[XDragnoir]

He can consume all the atoms/particles in someone's body, the same way he consumes matter at all times.

 

[Accelerate420]

Is Schnee a staff member? He seemed pretty on board with it, not sure who else we can get a hold off.

I suppose Kakine could negate regen or at least durability if his Dark -Matter decomposed them...? But I don't think he can even do that to begin with. Let's save that for a Kakine thread instead. Mind hax is the only thing that I would be willing to sacrifice but even then, if Omnidimensional shit can't slice inside his barrier why would Mind hax do it? Especially when largely it's transmission based?

 

[Scrlk666777]

He can consume all the atoms/particles in someone's body, the same way he consumes matter at all times.

That's not Regenerationn negation. Kakine has never stopped someone being able to regenerate.

 

[Accelerate420]

He can consume all the atoms/particles in someone's body, the same way he consumes matter at all times.

That's closer to durability negation than regen.

 

[XDragnoir]

You know, if a character can break matter in the molecular level, no one without regen on this level will be able to regen. So, if a character can consume/absorb every single atom in an body, someone without regen on this level will not be able to regen.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yeah Kakine should be capable of manipulating Dark Matter that way, besides he's more then capable of inflicting Dark Matter and melting them with it