Accelerator Revisions and minor Kakine revision

[Malox1696]

Btw I'm not sure if this was agreed with or not but was it agreed that Kakine should get Analytical prediction too?

he should have both information analysis (in the nt key) and analytical prediction

 

[Scrlk666777]

I haven't forgotten the Platinum wings, it's just I wanted to get the changes that was agreed with in this OP only since they should have been added a while ago. I'm not good with summeries so someone else will have to add the Platinum wings edition.
I'll make another CRT discussing the durabilty thing another time.

btw im talking about regular dura negation, not the one i explained about (that's more close to dura scaling) he has matter manipulation , there is no need to tell u that if i control the inside of something ignore it's dura

Oh right. Yes, he should have dura negation but I will put that in a seperate CRT. I'll do that soon, since there are some minor changes that still possibly needs to be added to Accel's profile.

There is also a possible upgrades to Mikoto and Aleister's phone I want to put forward. Really I want to see if I can help with the profiles one by one on here. I stared with Accel because I knew he had so much missing and there would be some debate about one or two things.

 

[Accelerate420]

I've added the changes to Accel's profile that has been agreed upon. The only things I haven't added is the change in AP and speed to pre-headshot, certain mind-hax resistence, AP amping and him being able to reflect the omnidimensional slice, only because I'm not quite sure how to put the last one.

Omnidimensional I would just put 'omnidirectional resistance' I guess? AP and Speed should be added too of course and certain mind hax resistance.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Maybe more resistant to things like omnidimensional slicing. The major thing to be noted about that was that Elizard couldn't cut inside his vector field nor could she slice through it.

As I said I just wanted to add the stuff that was agreed by everyone. AP, Speed and certain mind hax resistance should be added though but as I said I think you need agreement of another admin and I can't see one being willing to read through this entire thread.

Personally I think we may have to compromise when it comes to AP.

 

[Accelerate420]

No way dude. No need to compromise on this because one guy won't believe facts. I'm gonna attempt to garner attention from one of the staff when I'm free and see how that goes.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yeah, you're right we shouldn't compromise, espeically with something that has been agreed by literally everybody but one.

 

[DontTalkDT]

yes calculation is not the only factor, but in this case it does not matter as reflection is ONLY calculation based, unlike vector control that can be used in many different way

As I already said I'm fine with his reflection, and just his reflection, being scaled. Be it for other reasons.

The reason why Qliphah's power worked against Accel was because of the contract and the fact that he allows her past his reflection. This is the reason why, even in physical form, she can ignore his reflection, which she has shown many times by the mere fact that her getting up close and personal with him, every time she is summomned. Even Neph pointed out how naive he was for saying Qliphah's full demonic name.
Everyone can get close and personal with Accelerator... his reflection only blocks things dangerous to him, so as long as Qliphah doesn't try to punch him out it would not be triggered, even if she hugs him.

It is was stated that Accels power was useless against Qliphah's, not just demonstrated, so it's not a matter of him just letting it through.

Interesting. Though as Malox suggested the corruption might be turned off, Accelerator might just lack the understanding for it to do more than confuse him (the low end effect of what it is said to do) or, I don't want to rule out, he is just able to deal with the dangerous knowledge. With her dress we are talking about dangerous knowledge after all, not direct mindhax. Like the appropriate person can read a grimoire without getting mindhaxed, Accel might just have the capability to deal with the knowledge given that giant brain of his.

I mean can you actually provide any proof of mind hax actually working? Because I don't ever remember it ever working.

I mean aside burden of proof and all that, see the quote in my last post. Accelerator was send out of control from Qliphah's mind powers and his ability was stated to be useless against it.

Zensum"] Accelerator is still being supported by the same Misaka Network from the time of his headshot to now is he not?
Yes, he is supported by the Misaka Network, just that that doesn't matter to the debate at all, as the point is that espers could grow stronger in ways other than increase in calculation power. [/quote]
Burden of proof is on you. Hence, moot point.

Calculation power and ability strength are the same thing as far as Accelerator is concerned.

That's your opinion, not something actually stated. As said, the fact that anyone believes the level 6 shift project could work speaks against it.

1. Not understanding how you are getting ability development leads to power increase from the fact different esper powers have different processing requirements? I feel like we are straying from the main point which is Accelerator and not Espers in general. Just like what's been stated for Teleporters, Accelerators calculations are the most important component to his power to the point this growth factor is more or less irrelivant to this conversation. This is because Accelerator's power either works or it doesn't. If he can't calculate the vector he can't reflect it or transform's it's direction. Thus his power itself is weaker as its capacity is decreased. Which is why i'm of the opinion backscaling Accelerator AP should be fine for the same reason his reflection can be backscaled.

Calculations are important to make Accels power work and as such having them reduced is detrimental to him. Nothing more is actually said and that alone doesn't mean any other growth doesn't exist.

And not every application is an application of Accelerators redirection. As Accelerator has demonstrated many times now he can also change the magnitude of a vector. E.g. kicking a stone and increase the magnitude vector of its speed to make it fly extremely fast as a projectile. The extent to which he can do that is limited and that limit is what limits his usual AP.

If you think of him redirecting an external power source for his attack, like when he redirects parts of the planets rotational energy, then that is a separate issue. However, he never demonstrated having a readily available source for redirecting energy from his environment stronger than the earth's rotational energy. And of that he only managed to take 5 minutes worth (possibly due to calculation constraints). Of course in terms of outside sources having the idea and the knowledge about them necessary to do the calculation of the vectors is another factor that doesn't necessarily backwards scale.

And Accelerator is certainly not reaching Planet level AP by redirecting stuff available on earth, as there literally is just no available energy source on earth that could offer that much energy.

3. The project that was set to fail from the start and was only created to spread the Misaka Network?

See above. Only for Aleister it was set up as such. Everyone else thought it would work and these people were pretty well informed.

4. Accelerator can't simply repair his brain with growth.

No, but he can grow without repairing his brain.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Accel's reflection works on a white list. He allows anything that he deems safe in or what he needs, the rest gets reflected.

On the mindhax, I changed it to certain Mind-Hax resistence because as I said in a post above I don't think he can deal with all mind-hax, at least not by himself anyway.

But it's possible that Qliphah herself could counter against this, so with Qliphah it would be more Mind Hax resistence by proxy. But Accel can still resist certain Mind haxes either way on his own, like Mental out for example.

 

[Accelerate420]

This isn't a joke, this is an entire circus.

>"Dude, calculation and esper abilities work this way."

>"No they don't, prove it."

>Proof

>"It doesn't work that way."

I'm not sure who didn't fill you in but the Sister Experiment wasn't about "Fight to grow stronger" it was about "Learn how to improve your ability and enhance yourself mentally. The more Accelerator understands, the closer he will be to SYSTEM."

You're ignoring the entire concept of how acheiving Level 6-- SYSTEM works. It's not about becoming stronger AP or any of that dumb stuff. It's always been about understanding, and getting Accelerator to use his brain more and more to develop his ability could cultivate it to reach such a level to do Gods Calculations.

Fighting a lot had literally 0 to do with it. This was explained in the post already.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

Interesting. Accelerator did also say to Touma that strong people was the quickest way to level up, what he was referring to was his newfound control over the wind which he stumbled upon due to fighting someone he couldn't defeat simply.

So the training/killing he did was to help him learn how to overcome different obstacles which can have tangible results for Accelerator and the scientists, but not lead them to level 6.

 

[Accelerate420]

Yes. The whole point was to put him into applying his abilty in new ways, not to just make him 'level up' through shounen power ups. It was literally for him to learn new influences and applications, hence why the clones needed combat data of him to keep him on his toes even if it took like 10k of them to finally get him to play a bit smarter.

It wasn't referring to a literal shounen power up, but the "necessity is the mother of all inventions" type of way, where being backed into a corner would force him to understand his powers more. Literally quoted was that even if the experiment did not reach the desired results, they would restart it again and again anyways after recalulations which is the likely scenario that would've happened.

 

[Accelerate420]

Also, even if she hugged him, anyone attempting physical contact of any shape or form WILL be blocked out and redirected. He can consciously accept and allow people through via a filter if he wanted too. I can't believe this, this is the entire reason his whole childhood went to high-hell in the first place as that any small contact gets redirected unless he accepts them.

 

[Zensum]

Yes, he is supported by the Misaka Network, just that that doesn't matter to the debate at all, as the point is that espers could grow stronger in ways other than increase in calculation power.

Ofc it matters. His specs are non debatably lowered and he has been stated to be inferior to his original power, unless you have counter proof?

Burden of proof is on you. Hence, moot point.

No it isn't? The burden is on you because like above, you have yet to provide any evidence to the contrary of all quotes pointing to Accelerator's esper power being weaker than before his trauma other than citing indeterminate 'growth'

His calculative and linguistic abilities were being supplemented by the almost 10,000 Sisters. In other words, his original intellectual specs were simply that great.

That's your opinion, not something actually stated. As said, the fact that anyone believes the level 6 shift project could work speaks against it.

Since you keep ignoring these...

"Calculation ability..." This was critical damage to Accelerator, as he had to first calculate the 'direction before reflection' and 'direction after reflection' before he could use his ability. Even if he could unconsciously use the reflection ability, it was because he unknowingly calculated the simplest formula. He wouldn't be able to use his ability, even the most basic reflection."'

I hope you aren't serious with this point.

"At face value, it had been to evolve Academy City's #1 Level 5 to Level 6 which lay beyond that, but he already knew that was not its true purpose. That experiment had either been intended to fail from the beginning or its true purposes were obtained whether it succeeded or failed."

"Aleister was the Board Chairman who had mass-produced more than 20,000 military clones, disposed of them in an experiment, and used that as camouflage to spread the Misaka Network, so she did not hold back on this subject."

Snip

You proved my point. So reducing calculations makes him... weaker? With a power like Accelerator's if he can't accurately calculate the vector, his power won't function properly and his reflection wont work. Pre Headshot can calculate vector values that his damaged brain cant, via having higher processing power. This growth is irrelevant to this fact. Unless you have some evidence we haven't seen? Vector Change is the underlaying functionality of all of Accelerators ability applications so processing power is important in all of them. Whether it be direction change, magnitude change or whatever else, it requires calculation of the vector value before and after.

Why is any of this relevant? Does headshot have a readily available planetary energy source? No. His AP comes from fights with Planetary characters and manipulating their vectors. The only difference in these cases is the obvious knowledge difference on unknown laws which is why its back-scalable

Only for Aleister it was set up as such. Everyone else thought it would work and these people were pretty well informed.

No, but he can grow without repairing his brain.

See above quotes...

He can grow all he wants, but if he doesn't physically have the specs to use greater power it doesn't matter. Why do you think Accelerators power doesnt have a level 4 or below variety?

 

[Scrlk666777]

Also, even if she hugged him, anyone attempting physical contact of any shape or form WILL be blocked out and redirected. He can consciously accept and allow people through via a filter if he wanted too. I can't believe this, this is the entire reason his whole childhood went to high-hell in the first place as that any small contact gets redirected unless he accepts them.

Exactly, Accel has to deem you safe enough to bypass his reflection. It works on a white list, he decides what's safe to go through and of course what he needs. It's like he says as well, he has to allow gravity, light etc. to go through.

 

[Accelerate420]

Bump.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I was thinking should I continue this thread in another thread? Like a continuation thread? Or just leave it?

 

[Accelerate420]

Might as well continue it with a Backscaling revision in another thread, yeah.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Okay, that's done. I'll ask someone to close this thread.

 

[Malox1696]

no finish this

 

[Scrlk666777]

It's a continuation thread Malox, it's literally this thread continued.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Anyway the thread is continued here Thread:3463628