"Let's get to the point" Minor ToAru Revision

[FantaRin_The_First]

Thanks to all of the CGMs that were willing to go along with my bull and approve my calcs. Future thanks to all of you mods and non-mods that'll look at this CRT of mine.

Okay, let's get straight to the point. This CRT will cover some minor lifting strength, speed, and a minor attack potency changes. Let's start in that order.
Lifting Strength Revision
Simplest one first. I got this calc for Houjou Arei that gives her Class M [8060.59 Tons] Lifting Strength and this supporting calc that gives her a less Class M [1514.34 Tons] Lifting Strength rating as well. Additionally, Hokaze Junko, Arei's physical superior, has a supporting Class K [510.38 Tons] Lifting Strength calc.

These two are regarded as physical powerhouses that are only surpassed by Sogiita Gunha and no one outside of this trio has yet to exchange in a grappling match or physical exchange of strength with 'em-therefore, only these three should've their Lifting Strength upgraded to Class M.
Speed Revision
Accelerator's Flight Speed

Spoiler: Accelerator's Flight Speed

[Source - Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index]
Silver Cross Alpha was on the run.

The plan was supposed to have been complete.

The targets, Hamazura Shiage and Accelerator, had joined together to protect Fremea Seivelun. Now that they had become a force that the upper levels of the city couldn’t ignore, Silver Cross’s objective was mostly complete. All that was left was to kill Fremea in such a way that the force that couldn’t be ignored would bare their fangs in revenge against the dark side and upper levels of Academy City.

It didn’t matter whether they would truly oppose the city.

It was like attaching a detonation fuse into a large pile of gunpowder. Whether anyone truly wanted to detonate it or not, it had to be defused. As such, the Graduates would have to be exterminated.

That was how it was supposed to go.

So why could he still not get to a safe area?

The four-legged powered suit did not have a human form. As such, the lenses that acted as eyes were not installed only on the front.

One of the lenses on that model had spotted his pursuer.

#1.

Academy City’s strongest.

It was a white figure called Accelerator.

(This isn’t normal.)

Silver Cross’s breath caught in his throat from shock when he looked at the speedometer.

750 kph.

He was near the limit for vehicles that raced along the ground.

And yet that monster was still right behind him.

(He’s at the level of an airplane.)

“That monster!! I knew he was a monster, but I never thought he was enough to rival the Highway Cheetah!!”

Simple enough. Accelerator's flight speed with his Tornado Wings is 750 KPH or 208.33 m/s, as seen above.

Here's a calculation for Wing White!Accelerator's flight speed. It makes his white white's flight speed 5000 m/s, or Mach 14.57725947522. Nuff said.

Should be noted that this doesn't apply to Pre-Headshot Accelerator since he only learned how to fly after his injury due to the fact that he only figured he could manipulated wind after his fight with Touma and was never seen using wind to fly until after his injury. Additionally, Accelerator's Black Wings won't have any flight speed rating for the simple fact that Accelerator has never used them to fly in all of its appearances.
Misaka Mikoto's Lightning
These novel statements has been directly translated by a translator on this wiki, which would make the speed of Misaka Mikoto's lightning Speed of Light due to the aforementioned direct statements.

Thus, her lightning should be SoL. Nuff said.
Yumiya Iruka's Lasers
Iruka uses military-grade flashlights and laser pointers to fire off deadly lasers. Furthermore, they travel in a straight light, melt their way through objects, don't cause explosions and get reflected when faced with reflective surfaces as seen here. Furthermore, it is noted here that her ability control light and it is also noted that Misaka can defend against Iruka's lasers by interfering with its particles of light.

Thus, she should have a Speed of Light speed ratings with her Lasers and Flashlights. Nuff said.
Kakine's Dark Matter Diffraction
Kakine can diffract light through his Dark Matter wings and turn 'em to deadly lasers. That's it. Literally stated to be just regular sunlight diffracted into smth that turned it into a deadly laser that doesn't follow the laws of physics.

This particular move of his should be noted as Speed of Light. Maybe. Not entirely sure about this one, chief. Up to you guys.
[Minor] Attack Potency Revision
Circling back to the lifting strength section for a moment, Arei's supporting Class M [1514.34 Tons] Lifting Strength rating also granted an upped Wall level rating [5.54 Megajoules] through the Work Formula. As more support for this proposal, a weaker and younger Hokaze Junko obtained an AP rating of Wall level [3.96 Megajoules] via a casual feat whilst Arei fought a older and stronger Junko in her debut fight.

Thus, there is support to upgrade Arei-and those who scale to her-to 5.54 Megajoules. Nuff said.

---

Agree: @SchroKatze
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[SchroKatze]

SoL Lightning is just so trippy.

But yeah, agree with stuff here

 

[Axscell]

As long as there's no statements that contradict the SoL Lightning, I agree.
(Who's gonna scale to this, other than Touma & Gunha?)

Not so big on calculations myself, but they seem okay. So yeah, agree with everything IG

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

As long as there's no statements that contradict the SoL Lightning, I agree.
(Who's gonna scale to this, other than Touma & Gunha?)

Have to wait for the next CRT for anyone that isn't Misaka. RN, I am only giving Misaka's lightning a SoL rating to solve a possible issue before I make an speed upgrades (and to get a general feel of what you folks think of Misaka having SoL lightning before I do anything crazy) + there still needs to be a few more calcs done before I do any further speed scaling, tbh.

Not so big on calculations myself, but they seem okay. So yeah, agree with everything IG

Awesome.

---

SoL Lightning is just so trippy.

But yeah, agree with stuff here

Thanks.

 

[Churronzon]

Misaka Mikoto's Lightning

hyperbole
Disagree with lightspeed mikoto spears for the same reason a lotta people been sayin for years. The author likely didn't know lightning isn't lightspeed when he added those statements in early volumes and would explain why he hasn't described it as such for 15+ years despite Misaka's numerous reappearances. (Last mention of lightspeed lightning was in 2006, volume 8's release date)

Later on, he stopped calling it lightspeed and just referred to them as faster than mach 3, and compares them to real life lightning strikes.

A railgun attack was over three times the speed of sound, and lightning strikes were
even faster. Even with a method of defending himself, to be able to time it right was
extremely difficult.

[...]

For example, the lightning strike.

If it was only high voltage electricity flow, by extending his right hand the lightning
would be attracted onto it, with the right hand acting like a lightning rod.

(Me right now so I'll just link this thread that discussed SoL lightning)

Anyways, Last Order should get massively hypersonic+ attack speed with lightning as a level 3 esper (upscaling from her lower level sisters) and you should note your crt would affect all the Misaka Sisters.

“Last Order, since you control the Sisters, does that mean you can use electric powers
too?”

“Yes, but only at Level 3, says Misaka as Misaka gives her reply.”

Agree with the rest

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

snip

Too long. Didn't read. Imao. Better luck next time, weezo! /jk jk

If the author has never once directly stated or implied that he had made a mistake in the novel's afternotes despite numerous chances to do so-or even just using the Railgun manga to say so-I say they are still valid.

Plus, if we are being serious... Misaka has only been in two actual fights in the series that weren't one-sided stomps in her or her opponent's direction (Misaka since NT13 or Misaka in a majority of her manga's "fights") or with some handicap holding either side back (Mugino vs. Misaka).

That being her fight with Bruhild, whose fight was almost entirey offscreen, and Doppelganer, who had an extreme height and regen advantage over her. The Angel Dragon exist in a weird state in the scaling due to numerous factors, so I'm not going to bother with it.

In all seriousness, however, isn't this what the Likely/Possibly rating are for? We got an equal amount of belief and disbelief here regarding Misaka's lightning. We got statements supporting both ideas. Thus, wouldn't it be ideal to list Misaka's lightning as "MHS+ (Insert justification here), possibly/likely SoL (Stated to move at the speed of lighting) with lightning" as a compromise?

 

[Churronzon]

Have you considered how this scales to the Misaka Sisters?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Have you considered how this scales to the Misaka Sisters?

Yes, and...?

 

[Churronzon]

Well, I want to know if they are getting upgraded to SoL attack speed as well and want to know under what mechanics you propose lightning is going at light-speed in this verse.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Well, I want to know if they are getting upgraded to SoL attack speed as well and want to know under what mechanics you propose lightning is going at light-speed in this verse.

Misaka's lightning just moves at light-speed cuz she's a reality warping Espers. The Misaka clones are weaker than her but they are still reality-warping Espers with the same powers as her, ergo, they should also have SoL lightning.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Just came to me after reading this thread a few more times.

The main issue bought up there was scaling, however... That's the thing Misaka's SoL lightning doesn't fully scale to anybody in the verse. Both calc-wise since any feats involving Misaka's lightning only have character just move only a part of their limbs instead of their body at a decent distance away and lore-wise.

The only reason Touma can react to Misaka's lightning is due to him preemptively picking up the signs that Misaka is ready to firing her lightning and reacting before it happens by putting up his right hand to act as a lightning rod as per Accelerator's word.

Spoiler: Scan

Accelerator was shocked at first, but soon figured out his tactics from the situation.

From previous reports about Academy City’s #3, Railgun, who Accelerator had faced off against before, in the rumors associated with the Railgun, there was one saying that an unknown Level 0 existed that could match against the Railgun using only his right hand.

This raised many questions.

For example, even if a right hand that could negate any ability exists, how could the one using it match his opponent’s timing?

A railgun attack was over three times the speed of sound, and lightning strikes were even faster. Even with a method of defending himself, to be able to time it right was extremely difficult. Even missing the timing by only an instant would probably result in death. In that situation, how could the scenario "Every single attack is negated easily" happen?

From the situation now, Accelerator could make a rough estimate.

In other words,

Precognition.

For example, when the Railgun used her ability, she would give off weak magnetic fields and electromagnetic waves that would make the metal items around her resonate. Because of the eventual large explosion, the Railgun herself probably wouldn’t notice these tiny vibrations like an earthquake’s precursor. ‘To see the invisible magnetic force, spread iron sand onto it to make it visible to the naked eye’, just like an elementary school experiment. So, because of these “An Involuntary Movements”, there would be hints to when the Railgun would attack.

Of course, that was not all.

That was not the only kind.

Even though her ability was more common compared to Accelerator’s ability, she was still the #3 esper of Academy City, and shouldn’t be blocked that easily.

There were probably other reasons as well.

For example, the lightning strike.

If it was only high voltage electricity flow, by extending his right hand the lightning would be attracted onto it, with the right hand acting like a lightning rod.

More importantly, a point was bought up in the thread that "Mikoto's fight with Saints wouldn't make sense given how horribly she'd be able to spam and simply catch them off guard constantly due to the sheer speed difference in attacks, which clearly didn't happen." Which actually... happened. Misaka threw her lightning and a Saint couldn't react to it, leaving her open for an attack.

Spoiler: Scan

“One second…is enough!!”

She had taken aim.

Bluish-white sparks flew from Mikoto’s bangs.

With the roar of the air bursting, the lightning spear directly struck the steel claymore. Not even Brunhild was able to ignore that. The high voltage current passed from the blade to her wrists and then rushed throughout her entire body.

Implying there is a major gap in Misaka's lightning and the Saint's speed. Possibly. Again. This is Misaka's only real fights in the series that weren't onesided stomps or have outside factors heavily messing up the results in-lore and it was almost entirely off-screen.

Idk. This is just food for thought in hopes of getting people to agree to SoL lightning for Misaka or to settle with possibly/likely SoL lightning.

 

[Aseka]

Just like Churro says, agree with everything except that lightning.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

SoL Lightning is just so trippy.

But yeah, agree with stuff here

How do you think I feel when I kept reading "speed of light" over and over lol.

Tbf, it's not that trippy when you know others do something that just shouldn't be right with the element they work with xD.

Like this guy is the embodiment of lightning and can shoot lightning and manipulate electricity even, yet he's got a move that allows him to go near or at the speed of light and in a fandisc sequel he can even attack at the speed of light if he goes all out LOL.

I also remember one character from another visual novel, Fortissimo, that also has a technique for them to go SoL or even attack at that speed despite manipulating lightning/electricity but I forgot the name of that character xD

 

[Aseka]

How do you think I feel when I kept reading "speed of light" over and over lol.

Tbf, it's not that trippy when you know others do something that just shouldn't be right with the element they work with xD.

Like this guy is the embodiment of lightning and can shoot lightning and manipulate electricity even, yet he's got a move that allows him to go near or at the speed of light and in a fandisc sequel he can even attack at the speed of light if he goes all out LOL.

I also remember one character from another visual novel, Fortissimo, that also has a technique for them to go SoL or even attack at that speed despite manipulating lightning/electricity but I forgot the name of that character xD

The thing is, it's statement is only early release of novels, back then Kamachi didn't really know speed of electricity. That's why it is only used back then.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

The thing is, it's statement is only early release of novels, back then Kamachi didn't really know speed of electricity. That's why it is only used back then.

So basically Kamachi just didn't know jack and then doubled down on the speed?

Sounds like a common author thing to do when it comes to LN's if that's the case.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Personally, this is why I am open to a possibly/likely rating for the Speed of Light rating, tbh. SoL lightning isn't the outlandish thing to come out at a light novel series and there is no issue scaling-wise since nobody fully scales to it due to a variety of reasons-of which the most important one being that Misaka was originally too OP at the start of the series to be in fights but the series' ongoing power escalation essentially makes her useless to be in any fights.

Like if we really are going to be nitpicky about science of SoL lightning, I do want to remind people that Misaka's coin-sized projectile shot at mach 3 has destructive force to vaporize large chunks of metals and cause property damage that goes way beyond a coin propelled at mach 3 speeds should realistically do.

 

[GunTish]

Misaka threw her lightning and a Saint couldn't react to it, leaving her open for an attack.

You left out the part where the only reason Misaka could hit Brunhild is because she stopped her claymore in mid-air with magnetism, which stopped Brunhild's movement long enough for Misaka to hit her.

Brunhild Eiktobel was aiming for Mikoto’s neck with her claymore, but the sword stopped in midair.

But once again it did not last even a second.

As if it was stuck in a wall and she was pulling it out, Brunhild ignored the great magnetic power and used her tremendous arm strength to forcibly swing the giant sword horizontally.

But…

“One second…is enough!!”

She had taken aim.

Bluish-white sparks flew from Mikoto’s bangs.

With the roar of the air bursting, the lightning spear directly struck the steel claymore. Not even Brunhild was able to ignore that. The high voltage current passed from the blade to her wrists and then rushed throughout her entire body.

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

(Who's gonna scale to this, other than Touma & Gunha?)

I think Junko will.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I think Junko will.

Hm?

IIRC, Junko has never dealt with Misaka's lightning properly as the only time they ever "fought" was in an SS and the latter made a comment that Junko could pick up her electromagnetic waves (or smth) and use that to preemptively dodge her attacks and Gunha explicitly held back against her in their battle and even then Junko was pushed to her limits.

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

Hm?

IIRC, Junko has never dealt with Misaka's lightning properly as the only time they ever "fought" was in an SS and the latter made a comment that Junko could pick up her electromagnetic waves (or smth) and use that to preemptively dodge her attacks and Gunha explicitly held back against her in their battle and even then Junko was pushed to her limits.

Don't know how you can hold back in reaction time of all things, honestly, but if that's the status quo on VSB as of now, alright.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Don't know how you can hold back in reaction time of all things, honestly, but if that's the status quo on VSB as of now, alright.

Oh, I didn't really think about that. My b. IG, it would be fine if no one is against it. But again. This CRT is mainly to get Misaka's Lightning as SoL first before doing anything regarding speed for the other characters.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

bumpity.

 

[SchroKatze]

I think Junko will.

Wouldn't this kinda scale to all high tiers? Since they supposedly blitz them and stuff. And we already have a relativistic feat from Coronzon to kinda support the scaling (?)

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Wouldn't this kinda scale to all high tiers? Since they supposedly blitz them and stuff. And we already have a relativistic feat from Coronzon to kinda support the scaling (?)

Again, this is a topic for an entirely different CRT altogether.

Although, I do want to point out that Junko (and by extension Gunha) exist in a void scaling-wise as they legit have never faced any Saint-tier (or above) peps in an actual fight-Ollerus doesn't count as he legit stood there and took Gunha's attacks before he used his Odin's Throne ability to attack Gunha's everything twice over to knock him down (with the rest of their encounter entirely offscreen)