Above All Others is clean 1-A now, not just "likely"

[Malomtek]

Eternity is 1-A now. Above All Others is the creator of Eternity, and transcends Eternity as a concept.

Above All Others is now 1-A. This is fact.

Given how the Living Tribunal is depicted in Thanos: The Infinity Ending as superior to Eternity, he might be 1-A too.

 

[Antvasima]

You are mixing up the regular universal Eternity with multiversal Eternity. The latter has been stated to transcend the Tribunal.

 

[Malomtek]

You are mixing up the regular universal Eternity with multiversal Eternity. The latter has been stated to transcend the Tribunal.

Can I see the scan that says that, again? Found it.

That wasn't my main point, by the way, which was that AAO > tier 1-A Eternity.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Jim Starlin has never used the multiversal incarnation of Eternity in his stories. In fact in "The Infinity Ending", after Thanos absorbed Above All Others into himself he became one with the multiverse, so it seems like that is what Jim Starlin perceives AAO as.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Off topic but why does Jim Starlin seem to like making Thanos as strong as possible? Not saying that's bad because Starlin is typically a decent writer but it gets kinda irritating

 

[Antvasima]

He proudly identifies strongly with Thanos. It is an idealised version of the dark side of himself.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

So kinda like a not exactly but sorta author avatar? Not saying Thanos IS suppose to be an avatar but it isn't uncommon for a writer to write themselves into the story using a character like Grant Morrison and Superman for example

 

[Malomtek]

Well, Jim Starlin has never used the multiversal incarnation of Eternity in his stories. In fact in "The Infinity Ending", after Thanos absorbed Above All Others into himself he became one with the multiverse, so it seems like that is what Jim Starlin perceives AAO as.

It doesn't mean anything, as the universal abstract hierarchy is supposed to be a reflection of the multiversal abstract hierarchy, with the hierarchy of the latter corresponding to the hierarchy of the former, and vice versa, just on different scales.

It doesn't mean anything regardless, as the Infinity Ending touched upon the "infinite kingdom" of the multiverse, so it wouldn't just be a universal Eternity that Jim Starlin is discussing regardless.

 

[Antvasima]

The Infinity Ending strictly dealt with the entities of a single universe.

 

[Malomtek]

Which wouldn't matter anyway, as the cosmic hierarchy of one universe reflects the cosmic hierarchy in every universe and the multiverse at large.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so, but I am not sure if Marvel's editorial department as a whole considers Starlin's recent stories as part of continuity at all.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask the following members to comment here in any case:

Matthew Schroeder, Zensum, C2 of Omego, Eficiente, Qawsedf234, PrinceOfTheMorning, Sandman31, SuperAPM, Zark2099, ClassicNESfa, Firestorm808.

 

[Malomtek]

I asked all of them.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Kepekley23]

The Infinity Ending might not even be canon, but as Ant said, there was never any indication that the Multiversal Eternity from the Eighth Omniverse made an appearance in that storyline.

Considering the fact Infinity no longer even exists and has just become an aspect of her brother, her appearance in the Infinity Ending massively damages the notion that Thanos absorbed anything but a universal M-Body.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, if you assume the Infinity Finale is canon, Al Ewing stated that the Living Tribunal who was killed by Master Order and Lord Chaos was Adam Warlock's reincarnated version, and he was explicitly stated to be inferior to Eternity by Galactus.

Which also proves that the entire storyline was taking place inside Eternity's true form.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The storyline is just dumb AF and I feel it shouldn't be in any of the profiles

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the storytelling itself was fine in terms of proper charactersation for Thanos and Warlock, which other Marvel writers have failed to do, but it did not fit with regular continuity.

 

[Kepekley23]

Now that I think about it, that entire storyline, including the Above-All-Others, must have taken place entirely inside the Multiversal Eternity, since Al Ewing stated that the Tribunal who got killed by Lord Chaos/Master Order was the same Tribunal that appeared in the Infinity Finale, which means the Above All Others can't possibly scale to the Eighth Multiverse, since it was explicitly shown not to infinitely transcend the Tribunal on The Infinity Ending.

 

[Antvasima]

I am uncertain how to handle this. I think that Starlin completely ignored Al Ewing's new Marvel cosmology, and still works with the one he helped to put in place in the early 1990s.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I agree with Matthew that the story itself didn't particularly make sense either. Why would "God" create and leave around weapons in every universe that can be used to easily overthrown him/her.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I think it's because most writers like Starlin ignore TOAA being every writer in Marvel and as Ant mentioned he seems to ignore Al Ewing's metaphysical and IIRC meta fictional elements (I think the House of Ideas was Ewing).

Actually now I think about it, doesn't the story with Thanos and HOTU take place in a different universe outside the 616 universe?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it referenced the start of the stories in recent years that completely mischaracterised Thanos, written by Brian Bendis, and dismissed it as nonsense, but still acknowledged its existence.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah I'm not seeing the evidence that AAO as being above Eternity besides an assumption about his cosmic role.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Starlin's series contradicts the main canon in so many places so consistently that I honestly don't feel like it should be scaled to other stories like that. The events are also ignored by every other Marvel writer on such a routine basis that it frankly looks deliberate. I had a very long and frankly exhausting discussion about this a couple months ago, and I stand by it. Likely 1-A is fine for the purposes of this wiki and doesn't risk mixing in what is honesly probably an alternate interpretation of the multiverse.

 

[Antvasima]

@ClassicNESfan

Are you willing to add an explanation footnote text to The One Above All page, and possibly the Thanos (Marvel Comics) one as well?

 

[ClassicNESfan]

Sure. I can do that.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I will unlock the pages. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[ClassicNESfan]

I have edited the pages.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Should I close this thread then?

 

[ClassicNESfan]

I think so.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.