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Divine Creator(Marvel Comics) Profile

VeryGoofyToddler

VeryGoofyToddler

2,012
1,398
I just have to say that I do not believe that the Divine Creator and the One Above All should be the same thing. This is why I believe with my reasoning which I will present would elude to a profile separation and a new one for the Divine Creator.

The creator of the character is J.M. DeMatteis and he has been adamant when it comes to his “God” characters to which the Divine Creator is. As he states he sees God as something that surpasses and contains everyone including the Void(Oblivion) and all of those are illusion and he embodies the true reality beyond everything. This is important because the major elements of these concept comes into full effect in the stories. For one that means God does not have a limit which the One Above All sort of does as it’s the limit of understand to the Defenders. This means that the world of action that he resides in the Four World Cosmology would only pertain to the Assiyah hierarchy which is the first emanation layer of the Four Worlds and he sits at the top of that lower hierarchy. This is evident as Cloud states that even through the door to Godhood, there still is no end which refers to the Never Queen statement the Mystery to uncovers the veils that hid God face(major element in Kabbalah) is infinite.

So these reasons aren’t necessarily the biggest contributing factors. However, given God only knows of love and the One Above All can rage and transform into the One Below All in rage to “destroy” kind of defeats what Matteis intend with God in his story. The only time Matteis even mentions of the name “One Above All” is when fans keep asking if they were the same. The only criteria he mentions it to be the case was when the One Above All was treated as this Omnipotent ineffable being that we thought was unsurpassable but this no longer is the case. God is behind, beyond, and within all things in Creation which at one time was what the One Above All was but clearly is no longer the case, if ever.

The Divine Creator as a concept is very clear to Matteis Cosmology. He dreamt of everything which is representative of Creation. He dreamed of the Golden Age of Men during the beginningless beginning where all things are brought from the divine imagination of hirself. Which it later dreamed of Creation which from it came duality, the staff of the Creator, and his primordial thoughts/emotions: Fallen Stars. He also based Adam K’ad-Mon, Fallen Star, as the main power behind Man-Thing whom represent the lineage of men who are bound to find their spiritual truth. With Theodore Sallis son named Job Burke had the position of becoming the Divine Dreamer hirself.

Also, Blue Marvel or Adam Brasher being called Adam Kadmon being referred to that by the One Above All has no parallel with Adam K’ad-Mon from Man-Thing and Strange Tales. While the idea they were the blue print to making Creation as the “primordial man” they were two clearly distinct concept for Ewing and Matteis which differentiate even more difference between the two.

This is just to set up a profile for the Divine Creator. The list of feat as well as the character background will be saved for a sandbox which I will pin point in a later thread.
 
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VeryGoofyToddler said:
I just have to say that I do not believe that the Divine Creator and the One Above All should be the same thing. This is why I believe with my reasoning which I will present would elude to a profile separation and a new one for the Divine Creator.

The creator of the character is J.M. DeMatteis and he has been adamant when it comes to his “God” characters to which the Divine Creator is. As he states he sees God as something that surpasses and contains everyone including the Void(Oblivion) and all of those are illusion and he embodies the true reality beyond everything. This is important because the major elements of these concept comes into full effect in the stories. For one that means God does not have a limit which the One Above All sort of does as it’s the limit of understand to the Defenders. This means that the world of action that he resides in the Four World Cosmology would only pertain to the Assiyah hierarchy which is the first emanation layer of the Four Worlds and he sits at the top of that lower hierarchy. This is evident as Cloud states that even through the door to Godhood, there still is no end which refers to the Never Queen statement the Mystery to uncovers the veils that hid God face(major element in Kabbalah) is infinite.

So these reasons aren’t necessarily the biggest contributing factors. However, given God only knows of love and the One Above All can rage and transform into the One Below All in rage to “destroy” kind of defeats what Matteis intend with God in his story. The only time Matteis even mentions of the name “One Above All” is when fans keep asking if they were the same. The only criteria he mentions it to be the case was when the One Above All was treated as this Omnipotent ineffable being that we thought was unsurpassable but this no longer is the case. God is behind, beyond, and within all things in Creation which at one time was what the One Above All was but clearly is no longer the case, if ever.

The Divine Creator as a concept is very clear to Matteis Cosmology. He dreamt of everything which is representative of Creation. He dreamed of the Golden Age of Men during the beginningless beginning where all things are brought from the divine imagination of hirself. Which it later dreamed of Creation which from it came duality, the staff of the Creator, and his primordial thoughts/emotions: Fallen Stars. He also based Adam K’ad-Mon, Fallen Star, as the main power behind Man-Thing whom represent the lineage of men who are bound to find their spiritual truth. With Theodore Sallis son named Job Burke had the position of becoming the Divine Dreamer hirself.

Also, Blue Marvel or Adam Brasher being called Adam Kadmon being referred to that by the One Above All has no parallel with Adam K’ad-Mon from Man-Thing and Strange Tales. While the idea they were the blue print to making Creation as the “primordial man” they were two clearly distinct concept for Ewing and Matteis which differentiate even more difference between the two.

This is just to set up a profile for the Divine Creator. The list of feat as well as the character background will be saved for a sandbox which I will pin point in a later thread.
Click to expand...
J.M. DeMatteis is someone who states that his words are meaningless and should not be asked, especially when it comes to characters such as the divine creator and oblivion.
 
Roirr said:
J.M. DeMatteis is someone who states that his words are meaningless and should not be asked, especially when it comes to characters such as the divine creator and oblivion.
Click to expand...
Every author states what they say does not affect the source material. He base his characters off Hinduism and God is meant to be plain and simple. He contains and surpasses everyone and everything is just a dream to it and well reading his stories, I can say that other than “love” the characters are not meant to be the same.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Every author states what they say does not affect the source material. He base his characters off Hinduism and God is meant to be plain and simple. He contains and surpasses everyone and everything is just a dream to it and well reading his stories, I can say that other than “love” the characters are not meant to be the same.
Click to expand...
This situation varies depending on the author, especially if the author in question is someone who is wanker and contradicts himself about Marvel Comics (like J.M. DeMatteis). J.M. in current or classic cosmo. There are not many people left who treat DeMatteis' words as canon.
 
Roirr said:
This situation varies depending on the author, especially if the author in question is someone who is wanker and contradicts himself about Marvel Comics (like J.M. DeMatteis). J.M. in current or classic cosmo. There are not many people left who treat DeMatteis' words as canon.
Click to expand...
Of course, I think the divine creator need a profile, but I don't think he has any relationship with toaa, he is just an aspect of toaao.
 
Roirr said:
This situation varies depending on the author, especially if the author in question is someone who is wanker and contradicts himself about Marvel Comics (like J.M. DeMatteis). J.M. in current or classic cosmo. There are not many people left who treat DeMatteis' words as canon.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t describe Matteis as a “wanker” which is quite rude given he is one of the most prominent writers for Marvel. He treats God as the same in every story because he believes it’s meant to contain and surpass everyone.

Matteis view is specifically his hence why not many people follow his approach. He acknowledges what he knows and does not and he writes based on his belief and teaching especially from Meher Baba. He’s quite respectful and does not like to go into other author work to say whose more powerful but what his idea of “God” is and in the comics we seen it to be well the Divine Creator.
 
Roirr said:
Of course, I think the divine creator need a profile, but I don't think he has any relationship with toaa, he is just an aspect of toaao.
Click to expand...
I disagree and would recommend the opposite. However, I think it deserves a full profile and one that is completely separate of the One Above All.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
I wouldn’t describe Matteis as a “wanker” which is quite rude given he is one of the most prominent writers for Marvel. He treats God as the same in every story because he believes it’s meant to contain and surpass everyone.

Matteis view is specifically his hence why not many people follow his approach. He acknowledges what he knows and does not and he writes based on his belief and teaching especially from Meher Baba. He’s quite respectful and does not like to go into other author work to say whose more powerful but what his idea of “God” is and in the comics we seen it to be well the Divine Creator.
Click to expand...
Of course, you can respect or love an author, but I am not the person who wanks Oblivion on Twitter, bro, and the author in question states that his words are meaningless on such matters. It does not make sense to ignore them and use the words of that author in such situations.
 
Roirr said:
Of course, you can respect or love an author, but I am not the person who wanks Oblivion on Twitter, my friend, and the author in question states that his words are meaningless on such matters.
Click to expand...
Al Ewing and Steve Orlando has said their words mean nothing except for what has been printed. He doesn’t wank “Oblivion” he literally created the character and just answer the questions that fans have of the character. I mean by your logic Starlin wanks Thanos, Al Ewing wanks the One Above All, Steve Orlando wanks the Scarlet Witch, etc…

They all not just Matteis states their words mean nothing on the source material and that “we” readers should reference the story. I, personally, like what he writes and believe in mostly what he says because it’s all supported by his writing like what Al Ewing statement goes with what he has written.
Roirr said:
It does not make sense to ignore them and use the words of that author in such situations.
Click to expand...
“God” is very specific and Divine Creator was only a thing like Pralaya which Matteis uses. We don’t see Lords of Shamballa or Maya being used in the way that Matteis does.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Al Ewing and Steve Orlando has said there words mean nothing except for what has been printed. He doesn’t wank “Oblivion” he literally created the character and just answer the questions that fans have of the character. I mean by your logic Starlin wanks Thanos, Al Ewing wanks the One Above All, Steve Orlando wanks the Scarlet Witch, etc…

They all not just Matteis states their words mean nothing on the source material and that “we” readers should reference the story. I, personally, like what he writes and believe in mostly what he says because it’s all supported by his writing as such as what Al Ewing statement goes with what he has written.

“God” is very specific and Divine Creator was only a thing like Pralaya which Matteis uses. We don’t see Lords of Shamballa or Maya being used in the way that Matteis does.
Click to expand...
It is not logical to look for a relationship between toaa and the divine creator due to the words of a wanker writer who states that his own words are meaningless and when we look at it, the rest of your claims look more like assumptions. In the 2000s, the concept of love was more associated with toaao. It can be said that this situation is the same in the current era.

Also, you are wrong here. Writers like Al Ewing do not tell everything in the story, sometimes they clarify some things in the interviews they do at the end of the series, like Al Ewing telling about the all power that Thor used against elder God toranos in the Immortal Thor series in an interview a few issues later, or sometimes on Twitter. He does it by responding to the reader from dan, therefore, in terms of cosmology, you can never equate Al Ewing with Demattis. Al Ewing is someone who follows a consistent path with other writers and whose words are treated as canon. JM, on the other hand, does not equate his own words with his own writings and differs from other writers only in his own words. He is a wanker writer who is not considered canon, especially for Marvel Comics.
 
Roirr said:
It is not logical to look for a relationship between toaa and the divine creator due to the words of a wanker writer who states that his own words are meaningless and when we look at it, the rest of your claims look more like assumptions. In the 2000s, the concept of love was more associated with toaao. It can be said that this situation is the same in the current era.
Click to expand...
The basis of the “God” character was why I used his statement. The rest I literally showed the supporting evidence from the comics.
Roirr said:
Also, you are wrong here. Writers like Al Ewing do not tell everything in the story, sometimes they clarify some things in the interviews they do at the end of the series, like Al Ewing telling about the all power that Thor used against elder God toranos in the Immortal Thor series in an interview a few issues later, or sometimes on Twitter.
Click to expand...
Given if they have time to make a story with a specific amount of issues and one that Marvel does not drop then sure. The point is what they say cannot stray from what the source material entail. Twitter statements and Interviews are not source material.
Roirr said:
He does it by responding to the reader from dan, therefore, in terms of cosmology, you can never equate Al Ewing with Demattis. Al Ewing is someone who follows a consistent path with other writers and whose words are treated as canon. JM, on the other hand, does not equate his own words with his own writings and differs from other writers only in his own words. He is a wanker writer who is not considered canon, especially for Marvel Comics.
Click to expand...
He does equate his own words in his writing as we’ve seen how God is described in the comics. Al Ewing also add touches to the story without trying hard to denote a whole separate continuity but still he has some things that are not original to the previous writer.

Also, I don’t know why you have such a vendetta against Matteis but let’s not call a writer a “wanker” it’s such a lament term and quite childish.
 
Roirr said:
I strongly disagree that the divine creator is considered an aspect of toaa.
Click to expand...
So you don’t agree that Divine Creator aspect of the One Above All. Yet, this thread is trying to make Divine Creator have his own profile separate of the One Above All.

I haven’t brought any mentions of aspects. So I agree with your take, I guess.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
The basis of the “God” character was why I used his statement. The rest I literally showed the supporting evidence from the comics.

Given if they have time to make a story with a specific amount of issues and one that Marvel does not drop then sure. The point is what they say cannot stray from what the source material entail. Twitter statements and Interviews are not source material.

He does equate his own words in his writing as we’ve seen how God is described in the comics. Al Ewing also add touches to the story without trying hard to denote a whole separate continuity but still he has some things that are not original to the previous writer.

Also, I don’t know why you have such a vendetta against Matteis but let’s not call a writer a “wanker” it’s such a lament term and quite childish.
Click to expand...
For writers like Al Ewing, their words are logical and good statements that clarify parts of their comics. We can tell this from his interviews in the Venom 2021 Immortal Thor or Ultimates series because this is something Al Ewing does all the time. As for JM, I have no hard feelings towards him, I just don't want to ignore some things.
 
Roirr said:
For writers like Al Ewing, their words are logical and good statements that clarify parts of their comics. We can tell this from his interviews in the Venom 2021 Immortal Thor or Ultimates series because this is something Al Ewing does all the time. As for JM, I have no hard feelings towards him, I just don't want to ignore some things.
Click to expand...
The point of this thread is to create a profile for Divine Creator. Continuity between authors will be discussed in another thread.
 
Roirr said:
It is not logical to look for a relationship between toaa and the divine creator due to the words of a wanker writer who states that his own words are meaningless and when we look at it, the rest of your claims look more like assumptions. In the 2000s, the concept of love was more associated with toaao. It can be said that this situation is the same in the current era.

Also, you are wrong here. Writers like Al Ewing do not tell everything in the story, sometimes they clarify some things in the interviews they do at the end of the series, like Al Ewing telling about the all power that Thor used against elder God toranos in the Immortal Thor series in an interview a few issues later, or sometimes on Twitter. He does it by responding to the reader from dan, therefore, in terms of cosmology, you can never equate Al Ewing with Demattis. Al Ewing is someone who follows a consistent path with other writers and whose words are treated as canon. JM, on the other hand, does not equate his own words with his own writings and differs from other writers only in his own words. He is a wanker writer who is not considered canon, especially for Marvel Comics.
Click to expand...
What did he clarify about the Allpower?
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
What did he clarify about the Allpower?
Click to expand...
He stated that all power is a power that depends on the knowledge beyond the knowledge obtained by Odin sacrificing himself to Yggdrasil, and that it works in the same logic as the Odin force. A person who uses all power must go into all sleep from time to time, not his own sleep. It is a power that Thor inherited through the title of All Father.
 
That’s what I said when referring to “his own sleep.”I really don’t know why you’re trying to correct something that was illicitly mentioned just because of the wording choice. Anyways, we probably need more opinions of this matter.
 
Roirr said:
He stated that all power is a power that depends on the knowledge beyond the knowledge obtained by Odin sacrificing himself to Yggdrasil, and that it works in the same logic as the Odin force. A person who uses all power must go into all sleep from time to time, not his own sleep. It is a power that Thor inherited through the title of All Father.
Click to expand...
So he's essentially tying it into the Rune King power set and explaining it more. That's awesome.
 
NaturalDestroyer said:
So he's essentially tying it into the Rune King power set and explaining it more. That's awesome.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I don’t think that’s the case. Rather, Knowledge is Power and Odin gaining wisdom from the Well of Mimir is part of that process.

The storyline of Rune King was very short and I feel he’s over credited, if anything.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
That’s what I said when referring to “his own sleep.”I really don’t know why you’re trying to correct something that was illicitly mentioned just because of the wording choice. Anyways, we probably need more opinions of this matter.
Click to expand...
If you answer the questions that were not asked to you, I make do minor corrections. Anyway, I think the divine creator should get cm 1/AE because of the concept of love, and he can also get some abilities due to oblivion.
 
Roirr said:
If you answer the questions that were not asked to you, I make do minor corrections. Anyway, I think the divine creator should get cm 1/AE because of the concept of love, and he can also get some abilities due to oblivion.
Click to expand...
You didn’t need to either way simply because I answered for you. This happens all the time and we’re not going to discuss what Divine Creator will get just yet.
 
I don't know about him being tier 0 and all that but I do think that the Demattis cosmology should be inspected more thoroughly when it comes to the overall relation it has to the greater scale of the marvel cosmology (although considering the whole fallen stars thing it could lead to tier 0 abstracts and some lovecraft to SCP levels of nonesense which I hate since I despise anything to do with characters above 2-A since the "my infinity is bigger than your infinity" debating sucks all types of muck and filth but what can ya do)
 
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