2A (Possibly L1C) Devil May Cry - A relevant closer to a CRT

[SuperSonicTL]

My argument is there is a statement that basically implies the existence of many ifs/alternate worlds given the reasoning involved in this.

Yeah and that's not referring to Demon World... The novel statement you brought actually has its own context which we'll shed a light on someday.

For now, drop that argument and lets focus on the actual spatial argument we are on about.

 

[SeijiSetto]

[...] then I can't argue against it as it's already done.

just for the record, "it already passed" is not a good reason to say "i can't do anything"
if it passed when it shouldn't have, you're absolutely free (and encouraged, even) to call it out and go to undo it

Also not a real fan of whataboutism in situations when the evidence for the verse’s own cosmology should used here

like planck already said well, throwing out "whataboutism" whenever someone brings up a similar thing is a silly thing to do.
when things aren't clear, you look to past cases that are similar to see what was done there. that's what precedent is, and shutting down any discussion of the same thing being applied elsewhere isn't helping anyone.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah and that's not referring to Demon World... The novel statement you brought actually has its own context which we'll shed a light on someday.

For now, drop that argument and lets focus on the actual spatial argument we are on about.

The problem with this, it doesn’t necessarily exclude the Demon world by default.

There is no evidence that will suggest it would exclude the Demon World and Human World though. Just because it doesn’t mention any specific worlds doesn’t prevent that statement from applying to the Demon World and Human World.

like planck already said well, throwing out "whataboutism" whenever someone brings up a similar thing is a silly thing to do.
when things aren't clear, you look to past cases that are similar to see what was done there. that's what precedent is, and shutting down any discussion of the same thing being applied elsewhere isn't helping anyone.

I am aware of what Precedent means, but that doesn’t mean I agree that magically exclude whataboutism being used tbh.



Either way, I still continue to make my disagreement well known for this.

Edit: Also because this can lead to a slippery slope as well.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

just for the record, "it already passed" is not a good reason to say "i can't do anything"
if it passed when it shouldn't have, you're absolutely free (and encouraged, even) to call it out and go to undo it

I'm referring to as of right now, I can't do anything until a thread is made about the topic as we have no standard. I even said previously that I would try and make a thread about that topic when able.

 

[Deagonx]

I believe the biggest issue with this entire revision is that there's no precedent for this.

We need some proper standards set before we allow 2-A based on potentially being able to store a 2-A amount of stuff within a space.

I will note, crucially, that his argument for 2-A is that the structure is Low 1-C. There isn't any evidence of it containing an infinite amount of universes. The premise of the upgrade is kind of farcical in that regard.

OP is not arguing that it is stated within the verse that the DW contains an infinite amount of universes. He is not arguing that there are statements indicating it could have an infinite amount of universes.

He is stating that he believes the Demon World is Low 1-C based on arguments that have been rejected in past threads (not inherently an issue) and saying that the Demon World should be able to hold an infinite amount of universes due to being Low 1-C, and thus should be given 2-A.

That really doesn't make any sense, and I don't know why it has so many agrees. I don't know whether these agree votes really believe it's Low 1-C or if they didn't go through the argument/evidence, but there's just no way to arrive at 2-A here. It's either Low 1-C or nothing based on the arguments put forth.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I will note, crucially, that his argument for 2-A is that the structure is Low 1-C. There isn't any evidence of it containing an infinite amount of universes. The premise of the upgrade is kind of farcical in that regard.

OP is not arguing that it is stated within the verse that the DW contains an infinite amount of universes. He is not arguing that there are statements indicating it could have an infinite amount of universes.

He is stating that he believes the Demon World is Low 1-C based on arguments that have been rejected in past threads (not inherently an issue) and saying that the Demon World should be able to hold an infinite amount of universes due to being Low 1-C, and thus should be given 2-A.

That really doesn't make any sense, and I don't know why it has so many agrees. I don't know whether these agree votes really believe it's Low 1-C or if they didn't go through the argument/evidence, but there's just no way to arrive at 2-A here. It's either Low 1-C or nothing based on the arguments put forth.

Duly noted.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I will note, crucially, that his argument for 2-A is that the structure is Low 1-C. There isn't any evidence of it containing an infinite amount of universes. The premise of the upgrade is kind of farcical in that regard.

OP is not arguing that it is stated within the verse that the DW contains an infinite amount of universes. He is not arguing that there are statements indicating it could have an infinite amount of universes.

He is stating that he believes the Demon World is Low 1-C based on arguments that have been rejected in past threads (not inherently an issue) and saying that the Demon World should be able to hold an infinite amount of universes due to being Low 1-C, and thus should be given 2-A.

That really doesn't make any sense, and I don't know why it has so many agrees. I don't know whether these agree votes really believe it's Low 1-C or if they didn't go through the argument/evidence, but there's just no way to arrive at 2-A here. It's either Low 1-C or nothing based on the arguments put forth.

Huh, I assumed 2-A was coming from the fact that the Demon World was infinite and contains many space-time continuum within it, so regardless of if it was Low 1-C (Which I don't think works at the moment), it would potentially/theoretically be capable of holding an infinite number of universes regardless do it it's size thus making it 2-A.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Huh, I assumed 2-A was coming from the fact that the Demon World was infinite and contains many space-time continuum within it, so regardless of if it was Low 1-C (Which I don't think works at the moment), it would potentially/theoretically be capable of holding an infinite number of universes regardless do it it's size thus making it 2-A.

Basically my argument is:

• Demon World is Infinite Darkness.
• It is also stated to be a container.
• The panel is straight up depicting the quality and quantity difference between both the container and the inhibitor of it, a sort of duality
• It gave birth to Human World which is also stated to be a ray of light which is basically our universe in contrast to Demon World which is stated to be that aformentioned Darkness.
• Demon World has different dimensions within it in which some are infinite spatially as well as stated on screen to be space-time continuums and have separate rules of space and time altogether.

I think I make enough sense here, personally speaking. It should be at bare minimum 2A, L1C is just a possible extension altogether. Previous thread has no bearance as I pointed out many times at this point here.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Basically my argument is:

• Demon World is Infinite Darkness.
• It is also stated to be a container.
• The panel is straight up depicting the quality and quantity difference between both the container and the inhibitor of it, a sort of duality
• It gave birth to Human World which is also stated to be a ray of light which is basically our universe in contrast to Demon World which is stated to be that aformentioned Darkness.
• Demon World has different dimensions within it in which some are infinite spatially as well as stated on screen to be space-time continuums and have separate rules of space and time altogether.

I think I make enough sense here, personally speaking. It should be at bare minimum 2A, L1C is just a possible extension altogether. Previous thread has no bearance as I pointed out many times at this point here.

Then no, I don't see it being 2-A. Infinity is a fickle thing. You can shove infinite things into an infinite container and it wouldn't change the size of the container. Why? Because context matters.

In this instance you're trying to determine the size of the container without determining how many  real things can actually fit inside it. Contrary to popular belief, the jump from Low 2-C to Low 1-C is still a quantitative leap. You still need to prove that the container is dimensionally transcendent over its contents or is able to contain an uncountably infinite amount of universes.

Showing scans of "oh the Demon World is infinitely bigger than the Human World and can contain all these countably finite universes!" isn't enough to warrant that the container is Low 1-C, and thus you cannot argue the contents are 2-A.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Then no, I don't see it being 2-A. Infinity is a fickle thing. You can shove infinite things into an infinite container and it wouldn't change the size of the container. Why? Because context matters.

Exactly Sir Ovens, the context always matters which is exactly why I'm pushing for this rating.

In this instance you're trying to determine the size of the container without determining how many  real things can actually fit inside it. Contrary to popular belief, the jump from Low 2-C to Low 1-C is still a quantitative leap. You still need to prove that the container is dimensionally transcendent over its contents or is able to contain an uncountably infinite amount of universes.

You see Sir Ovens... That's why I specifically disagree with this notion. With the provided evidence, I really don't see a need to quantify infinite universes when the structure demands infinite universes to exist within it.

But if it helps, Demon World is also referred to as higher realm to lower realm which is Human World as well as sees it as nothing but a mere ray of light within its infinite expense.

If that isn't a showcase of structural superiority aside from the fact that it literally gave birth to a universe with separate laws and flow of time within it on panel infront of us then I don't know what else is.

Showing scans of "oh the Demon World is infinitely bigger than the Human World and can contain all these countably finite universes!" isn't enough to warrant that the container is Low 1-C, and thus you cannot argue the contents are 2-A.

Uhh... Who told you it is infinite to just in relation to Human World and not also infinite on its own as a container as well?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

You see Sir Ovens... That's why I specifically disagree with this notion. With the provided evidence, I really don't see a need to quantify infinite universes when the structure demands infinite universes to exist within it.

But if it helps, Demon World is also referred to as higher realm to lower realm which is Human World as well as sees it as nothing but a mere ray of light within its infinite expense.

If that isn't a showcase of structural superiority aside from the fact that it literally gave birth to a universe with separate laws and flow of time within it on panel infront of us then I don't know what else is.

You're going to have to point out to me where exactly it insinuates that infinite universes can exist inside the Demon Realm. It being called a "higher realm" just means it's of greater importance in the cosmic hierarchy. It does not mean that it is a dimensionally transcendent realm.

Uhh... Who told you it is infinite to just in relation to Human World and not also infinite on its own as a container as well?

Infinite x Infinite is still Infinite. It does not justify being a higher infinite. It just means the Demon World is larger than the Human World and all the worlds it contains. But it does not mean it is dimensionally transcendent.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

You're going to have to point out to me where exactly it insinuates that infinite universes can exist inside the Demon Realm.

The kanjis that was used for the Endless Darkness is: Hate - "Limit", Naki - "Negation" and Yami - "Darkness". The container (also called crucible) which in turn referring to Demon World as you can see these two lines: "Darkness is the Demon World", "Light is the Human World".

Now lets get to your question here: "Where exactly it insinuates that infinite universes can exist inside the Demon Realm?"

Look at the panel again: "But even in such a world, there was a line of line of light". A clear example that it is referring to as a container given the sentence invokes the idea of a world that contains universes as a meager finite "line" of light.

Soo look at this way... A world, as a container, is infinite, that sees universes, as a mere ray of light, which in question is your basic universe. Should be enough to assume it is infinite in the sense that it can contain infinite amount of Ray of Lights.

It being called a "higher realm" just means it's of greater importance in the cosmic hierarchy. It does not mean that it is a dimensionally transcendent realm.

The entire point of the panel is to depict as something of a transcendent structure that sees a space-time continuum as a finite line of light within its infinite space and from a common sense, a space-time continuum is not finite whatsoever.

That is without mentioning the cases where Demon World stated to "overwrite" as well as "consume" the reality of Human World. If we supposedly took two space-time continuums against eachother that doesn't mean one is going to eat away the other, they both have similar dimensionality afterall, no? Yet with such a structural quality, it was stated in DMC2 that "Human World will return to Demon World". Human World, a space-time continuum, is a property of the owner Demon World, a container of such a property. That simple of a concept.

Infinite x Infinite is still Infinite. It does not justify being a higher infinite. It just means the Demon World is larger than the Human World and all the worlds it contains. But it does not mean it is dimensionally transcendent.

Take a moment and look at your reply again. At this rate, we are just nitpicking things out. Demon World institutes, an atleast, a 4th dimensional axis to contain space-time continuums within it. The panel isn't specifically referring to a lower dimensional space like our usual 3rd one but Underworld in is entirety that should be referring to that same 4th dimensional axis abbreviated as "Demon World" at the very least.

Heck, on top, it sees an already uncountably infinite structure according to your very "standards" as finite on top of itself claiming to be infinite in comparison to it. I hope this reply will help you to see the light otherwise I really can't do anything about it.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ok Idk why mobile is being weird but I can't post that scan without posting the reply so I'll just leave it as its own post.

But yeah you doctored your scan and idk why. You really don't want DMC to have this reputation considering the elephant in the room.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Ok Idk why mobile is being weird but I can't post that scan without posting the reply so I'll just leave it as its own post.

But yeah you doctored your scan and idk why. You really don't want DMC to have this reputation considering the elephant in the room.

Oh wow... So you're accusing me of a scan where both translations essentially convey the same meaning?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Ok Idk why mobile is being weird but I can't post that scan without posting the reply so I'll just leave it as its own post.

But yeah you doctored your scan and idk why. You really don't want DMC to have this reputation considering the elephant in the room.

As explained in the blog made by Paradox, Kepe points out how devil's lair version is some times more accurate than the official release.

In this case, the scan you are accusing of being doctored comes from devil's lair, the one you posted is from the official release.

I don't remember what translation is more accurate but both convey the same message.

Please refrain from such accusations.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

What exactly you see different here? Devil Lair's version of the scan has better visual quality with same translation but more context given to it. You can use this if you want however I'll say that next time be more careful of accusing others without negotiating first otherwise things could get ugly.

 

[Da3ggman]

But yeah you doctored your scan and idk why. You really don't want DMC to have this reputation considering the elephant in the room.

Ovens, don't go around accusing people of doctoring evidence without any of your own. It's just a different translation; something you would know if you'd simply asked him where he got it from instead of jumping the gun.

Do better.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Just to add this here since the OP refused to post the full image here

 

[SYPHe5D]

Accusing someone of doctoring scans based off of no evidence is not smart, especially when that accusation is coming from an admin, the person who had done the infamous incident has been banned already, it is not in a good faith to assume the rest are doing the same thing.

Anyways I’m posting both the raw text and the translation of the scan which on god didn’t have to be debated in the first place:
Page 1:

世界は闇より生まれた
The world is born from darkness

Page 2-3:

果てなき闇　混沌の坩堝
だが その世界にも一条の光が差し

やがて世界は二つに分かれた
闇の世界は魔界

光の世は人界
二つの世界は共にあり続けた 長い永い間

Endless darkness A crucible of chaos

But even in that world one streak of light shone through

And in that time the world split into two

The darkness became the demon world

The light became the human world

These two worlds have existed for a long long time

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Accusing someone of doctoring scans based off of no evidence is not smart, especially when it is coming from an admin, the person who had done the infamous incident has been banned already, it is not in a good faith to assume the rest are doing the same thing.

The kanjis that was used for the Endless Darkness

Sir Oven is referring to the left out parts of the scan.


There isn’t a explanation as to why the OP couldn’t post the full image that has more text being used here outside of having to crop parts.

 

[Huesito88]

Accusing someone of doctoring scans based off of no evidence is not smart, especially when that accusation is coming from an admin, the person who had done the infamous incident has been banned already, it is not in a good faith to assume the rest are doing the same thing.

Anyways I’m posting both the raw text and the translation of the scan which on god didn’t have to be debated in the first place:
Page 1:

世界は闇より生まれた
The world is born from darkness

Page 2-3:

果てなき闇　混沌の坩堝
だが その世界にも一条の光が差し

やがて世界は二つに分かれた
闇の世界は魔界

光の世は人界
二つの世界は共にあり続けた 長い永い間

Endless darkness A crucible of chaos

But even in that world one streak of light shone through

And in that time the world split into two

The darkness became the demon world

The light became the human world

These two worlds have existed for a long long time

Where's the raw scan?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Where's the raw scan?

Here

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I getting a little annoyed with how Igmur scans ain’t exactly showing up properly, but I will post the link in text format instead

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Sir Oven is referring to the left out parts of the scan.


There isn’t a explanation as to why the OP couldn’t post the full image that has more text being used here outside of having to crop parts.

He should've asked first instead of barging into the conclusion. Japanese is heavily focused on the context and interpretations depending on it. Both translations pointed out it is referring to a comparison between both worlds from quality and quantity perspective soo they worded it like that.

I getting a little annoyed with how Igmur scans ain’t exactly showing up properly, but I will post the link in text format instead

Btw thanks man for your hard work. I appreciate it

 

[Richard5128pm]

Agree for 2-A, not sure about L1c

 

[Ningenron]

If this gets accepted bleach fans gonna have one hell of a day.

 

[SYPHe5D]

They can have, as much as they want.

 

[Deagonx]

Huh, I assumed 2-A was coming from the fact that the Demon World was infinite and contains many space-time continuum within it, so regardless of if it was Low 1-C (Which I don't think works at the moment), it would potentially/theoretically be capable of holding an infinite number of universes regardless do it it's size thus making it 2-A.

We have specific tiers based on the amount of universes. Infinite size is just Low 2-C. Containing 2-1000 universes is 2-C, anything finite above 1000 is 2-B and infinite universes 2-A.

So I don't see how we would reach the conclusion of 2-A based on the phrase word "many". I'm not sure it's reasonable to even assume 2-B merely from the word "many." All of these tiers are infinite, so the DW being infinite isn't really evidence for anything about Low 2-C. Without specific evidence of there being infinite universes, 2-A is sort of made up out of thin air.

 

[Deagonx]

Oh wow... So you're accusing me of a scan where both translations essentially convey the same meaning?

Ovens, don't go around accusing people of doctoring evidence without any of your own. It's just a different translation; something you would know if you'd simply asked him where he got it from instead of jumping the gun.

Do better.

Superimposing text on a scan isn't merely a different translation. You should either be posting the raws and providing a translation, or posting the official English version of the scan. Ovens is right to point out that there is a very big issue passing off a scan with a dubious translation edited into it as though it's the actual English scan.

You may not have been the one that created the scan, but you shouldn't post third party scanlations without qualifying it.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Oh wow... So you're accusing me of a scan where both translations essentially convey the same meaning?

Ok so I had originally intended to imply that the scan itself was doctored, not that you doctored it yourself. But I was distracted when I typed out the reply and directly incriminated you. Genuinely my fault, I'm sorry for accusing you.

But the point about not being 2-A still stands. This "line of light" you are touting as finite when compared to the Demon World, just isn't implied to be such from any variation of the text. I got someone to translate the original Japanese text, and they got this:

Endless Darkness, a crucible of chaos
However, even in that world, a single beam/ray of light shines
Eventually, the world split into two.
World of darkness became the Demon world
The world of light became the human world
The two worlds continued to coexist for a very, very long time.

First of all, there's no comparative language here. A ray of light can be 1cm or infinitely large compared to the darkness. Why do you assume it's finite compared to the Darkness/Demon World? There's nothing here that would indicate that.

Second of all, a 4D plane isn't uncountably infinite? It's just countably infinite. Like I don't think you understand the math involved here; if you count from one to infinity, that's countably infinite. Having that many universes is 2-A. But if you include real numbers (i.e. all decimals), you start to realise you can't even start counting cause what would the first number be? 0.01? 0.00001? You can have infinite numbers before you even reach 1. This is uncountably infinite. It doesn't matter how many universes you can shove into the Demon World, if you can physically start counting, it isn't Low 1-C, and therefore wouldn't automatically contain a 2-A number of universes.

Thirdly, a difference of time between realms is NOT an indication of the Demon World operating on a transcendent dimension of time. It just means the dimension of time is different between realms. This is about as straightforward as it gets. And no, being spatially larger, even infinitely larger, does not constitute a higher dimension, because again, you can shove infinite infinites into a universe and still be Low 2-C. That's just how infinites work.

 

[Da3ggman]

Superimposing text on a scan isn't merely a different translation. You should either be posting the raws and providing a translation, or posting the official English version of the scan. Ovens is right to point out that there is a very big issue passing off a scan with a dubious translation edited into it as though it's the actual English scan.

You may not have been the one that created the scan, but you shouldn't post third party scanlations without qualifying it.

I agree that they shouldn't use third party translations, but that's not what Ovens accused the of. He directly stated that they, as an individual, doctored the scan themselves without any further elaboration as to where he got the scan from; that's the issue here.

One is simply pointing out our regulations, and the other is accusing someone of malicious intent to fake evidence. Humongous difference.

Edit: Btw, based on Oven's contention, count me as neutral until DontTalk comes to sort this out.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay so I initially didn't want to comment on this but I guess I'll throw my hat into the ring

I'm guessing the logic is that the Demon World contains a space-times within it and is infinite in size relative to them, thus making it 2-A. I've seen this logic used before with other verses (I won't name names), and honestly I don't think I'm a fan of it. The thing about this is that being infinite on a 4-D scale can just as easily be Low 2-C, which is why we make the distinction of containing infinite universes. So I wouldn't say I support the Demon World being 2-A

As an aside, too:

Endless Darkness, a crucible of chaos
However, even in that world, a single beam/ray of light shines
Eventually, the world split into two.
World of darkness became the Demon world
The world of light became the human world
The two worlds continued to coexist for a very, very long time.

Tbh based on this my initial reaction would be that the line of light is finite in size compared to the "endless darkness" of the Demon World, but that's just me personally

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Ok so I had originally intended to imply that the scan itself was doctored, not that you doctored it yourself. But I was distracted when I typed out the reply and directly incriminated you. Genuinely my fault, I'm sorry for accusing you.

I forgive you but please next time be more careful with your wordings. We aren't dishonest as you think, past is past. I'm just doing what I feel right here. A logical reasoning of sort.

But the point about not being 2-A still stands. This "line of light" you are touting as finite when compared to the Demon World, just isn't implied to be such from any variation of the text. I got someone to translate the original Japanese text, and they got this:

Endless Darkness, a crucible of chaos
However, even in that world, a single beam/ray of light shines
Eventually, the world split into two.
World of darkness became the Demon world
The world of light became the human world
The two worlds continued to coexist for a very, very long time.

First of all, there's no comparative language here. A ray of light can be 1cm or infinitely large compared to the darkness. Why do you assume it's finite compared to the Darkness/Demon World? There's nothing here that would indicate that.

The comparison is through the presentation of how these worlds are depicted as, a duality of sort, rather then direct comparison (even though it invokes the same purpose either way). But what I wanna say is that the "line" in this context doesn't referred to as infinite but Demon World did... It did mentioned from a quality perspective that it is infinitely bigger then this mere "Ray of Light" inside its boundless scope. Otherwise it would've said something like infinite ray of light but it didn't specified that whatsoever so its a common sense we take it finite, especially when you consider the other context here (Demon World being infinite darkness).

If the intention were to imply an infinite ray of light, the text would have specified this. However, it does not. By omission, common sense dictates we interpret the ray of light as finite especially when contextualized against the Demon World which is consistently described as infinite darkness. I hope you understand.

Second of all, a 4D plane isn't uncountably infinite? It's just countably infinite. Like I don't think you understand the math involved here; if you count from one to infinity, that's countably infinite. Having that many universes is 2-A. But if you include real numbers (i.e. all decimals), you start to realise you can't even start counting cause what would the first number be? 0.01? 0.00001? You can have infinite numbers before you even reach 1. This is uncountably infinite. It doesn't matter how many universes you can shove into the Demon World, if you can physically start counting, it isn't Low 1-C, and therefore wouldn't automatically contain a 2-A number of universes.

I understand the mathematics involved but your tiering system doesn’t seem to fully account for this distinction I'm afraid... I’m addressing the issue from both a qualitative and quantitative perspective. The scan suggests that the Demon World encompasses an endless darkness (an infinite space) that contains a space-time continuum represented metaphorically as a ray of light for better visualization of the structure.

Such a method of portrayal implies that the Demon World’s structure logically possesses the capacity to hold an infinite number of such "rays of light" within its boundless scope. For example, think of a room without boundaries. if you shine a light within it, the light’s presence becomes negligible compared to the infinite expanse surrounding it. The scan is just depicting it in a way of visualizing the entire structure. That's about it.

Thirdly, a difference of time between realms is NOT an indication of the Demon World operating on a transcendent dimension of time. It just means the dimension of time is different between realms. This is about as straightforward as it gets. And no, being spatially larger, even infinitely larger, does not constitute a higher dimension, because again, you can shove infinite infinites into a universe and still be Low 2-C. That's just how infinites work.

I understand your point, but I think the argument is being oversimplified here. A difference in time flow between realms is just there in this context as a supporting detail when combined with other factors... The distinction lies in how the Demon World is described not just as "different" but qualitatively superior in structure and scale.

Additionally speaking, the notion of being infinitely larger isn't merely about spatial size. It’s about the structural hierarchy implied by the text. The Demon World isn’t just "bigger" but contains qualities (endless darkness) that suggest it transcends the spatial-temporal framework of the Human World. A realm that encompasses and dominates another, to the extent of absorbing or overwriting it.

At the end, it’s true that infinite space alone doesn’t equate to higher dimensionality however the portrayal of the Demon World goes beyond your simple spatial terms given it operates as a higher structure relative to the Human World. That's all about it.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Still cant believe people are arguing over the damn ray of light scan when it's one of the most blatant cases of being metaphorical.

It's literally just saying that in a darkness that never ended that miraculously a ray of light came which illuminated said darkness creating a balance between light and dark.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The comparison is through the presentation of how these worlds are depicted as, a duality of sort, rather then direct comparison (even though it invokes the same purpose either way). But what I wanna say is that the "line" in this context doesn't referred to as infinite but Demon World did... It did mentioned from a quality perspective that it is infinitely bigger then this mere "Ray of Light" inside its boundless scope. Otherwise it would've said something like infinite ray of light but it didn't specified that whatsoever so its a common sense we take it finite, especially when you consider the other context here (Demon World being infinite darkness).

If the intention were to imply an infinite ray of light, the text would have specified this. However, it does not. By omission, common sense dictates we interpret the ray of light as finite especially when contextualized against the Demon World which is consistently described as infinite darkness. I hope you understand.

Correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying that because the Darkness was stated to be "endless" (i.e. infinite), that the Human World would have to be infinitely smaller because it is a "ray of light" (which again, has no stated size, so this thing could be just as large as the Darkness for all we know). I'm sorry, but I invoke Occam's Razor. We can not assume the Darkness is infinitely larger in size as compared to the Human World if there was never any comparative language in the text. Assuming a finite sized Human World is just as speculative as assuming an infinite sized human world, except you have more backing for the latter because being infinite in size is literally a requirement for Low 2-C.

I understand the mathematics involved but your tiering system doesn’t seem to fully account for this distinction I'm afraid... I’m addressing the issue from both a qualitative and quantitative perspective. The scan suggests that the Demon World encompasses an endless darkness (an infinite space) that contains a space-time continuum represented metaphorically as a ray of light for better visualization of the structure.

Such a method of portrayal implies that the Demon World’s structure logically possesses the capacity to hold an infinite number of such "rays of light" within its boundless scope. For example, think of a room without boundaries. if you shine a light within it, the light’s presence becomes negligible compared to the infinite expanse surrounding it. The scan is just depicting it in a way of visualizing the entire structure. That's about it.

The problem with the light analogy is that it assumes the light isn't infinite, which is just false because you HAVE to be infinite to be Low 2-C. And you can't bring up that it is finite "compared" to the Darkness because, as I already stated before, there was no comparative language in the original scan. The Darkness is endless is one statement, a ray of light cut through it is another. There's no context you can derive from that that could possibly arrive at "the Darkness is infinitely larger than the ray of light"

I understand your point, but I think the argument is being oversimplified here. A difference in time flow between realms is just there in this context as a supporting detail when combined with other factors... The distinction lies in how the Demon World is described not just as "different" but qualitatively superior in structure and scale.

Additionally speaking, the notion of being infinitely larger isn't merely about spatial size. It’s about the structural hierarchy implied by the text. The Demon World isn’t just "bigger" but contains qualities (endless darkness) that suggest it transcends the spatial-temporal framework of the Human World. A realm that encompasses and dominates another, to the extent of absorbing or overwriting it.

At the end, it’s true that infinite space alone doesn’t equate to higher dimensionality however the portrayal of the Demon World goes beyond your simple spatial terms given it operates as a higher structure relative to the Human World. That's all about it.

No, the text doesn't suggest anything besides there being 2 worlds, the Demon one and the Human one. Also a universe can absorb another regardless of size. These are two mutually exclusive things.

Also the very next page doesn't even imply that the Demon World was going to absorb the Human World through size, just that Humans had no power against the Demons, which like, yeah, no duh. So nothing could stop them from achieving sublimation.

I'm giving this revision a hard no; unless new evidence is brought forward. But I think I have made a solid enough case against the upgrade. What it comes down to is ultimately extrapolation of pretty straightforward text. Coupled with the other universes in the blog, everything should be 2-C.

 

[CloverDragon03]

@Sir_Ovens Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure a universe-sized space-time doesn't have to be infinite to be Low 2-C. It just needs to at least be the size of our observable universe

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Correct me if I'm wrong. You're saying that because the Darkness was stated to be "endless" (i.e. infinite), that the Human World would have to be infinitely smaller because it is a "ray of light" (which again, has no stated size, so this thing could be just as large as the Darkness for all we know). I'm sorry, but I invoke Occam's Razor. We can not assume the Darkness is infinitely larger in size as compared to the Human World if there was never any comparative language in the text. Assuming a finite sized Human World is just as speculative as assuming an infinite sized human world, except you have more backing for the latter because being infinite in size is literally a requirement for Low 2-C.

At this point, the most likely approach is to interpret the relationship between Light and Darkness as opposing forces, both in a poetic and comparative sense. Light and Darkness are often used symbolically to convey contrast in both quality and quantity, which seems to be the intent here as well.

The "ray of light" is depicted as small and finite within the endless expanse of Darkness. While the text doesn’t provide explicit comparative language, the imagery strongly implies this relationship. It's not just about size but also the structural hierarchy as a whole being portrayed, Light as a singular defined entity versus Darkness as a boundless, encompassing force.

The problem with the light analogy is that it assumes the light isn't infinite, which is just false because you HAVE to be infinite to be Low 2-C. And you can't bring up that it is finite "compared" to the Darkness because, as I already stated before, there was no comparative language in the original scan. The Darkness is endless is one statement, a ray of light cut through it is another. There's no context you can derive from that that could possibly arrive at "the Darkness is infinitely larger than the ray of light"

That’s not an issue at all. From the Demon World's perspective, an infinite size can appear finite, much like how we perceive 3-dimensional space where infinitesimal differences exist but we still interpret them as finite in practical terms. It’s a matter of perspective. Nothing much.

No, the text doesn't suggest anything besides there being 2 worlds, the Demon one and the Human one. Also a universe can absorb another regardless of size. These are two mutually exclusive things.

Also the very next page doesn't even imply that the Demon World was going to absorb the Human World through size, just that Humans had no power against the Demons, which like, yeah, no duh. So nothing could stop them from achieving sublimation.

I think you are not understanding the context behind that scan. The world was already separated at the point by Pluto But Mundus slain him according to lore and from that point on, Mundus took over the throne. From here, he wanted to return Human World back to Demon World and thus, another war started where Darkness was again trying to consume Light but this time, Sparda intervened when he sided with humanity and sealed of the Darkness away. You can read further from that point for further evidence.

Also I'm pretty sure it is explained in great detail here and here. Check it out if you can.

I'm giving this revision a hard no; unless new evidence is brought forward. But I think I have made a solid enough case against the upgrade. What it comes down to is ultimately extrapolation of pretty straightforward text. Coupled with the other universes in the blog, everything should be 2-C.

Duly noted. I can’t argue against differing opinions but I believe I’ve made a reasonable case on my part as well. In any case, have a good day my friend.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

We have specific tiers based on the amount of universes. Infinite size is just Low 2-C. Containing 2-1000 universes is 2-C, anything finite above 1000 is 2-B and infinite universes 2-A.

So I don't see how we would reach the conclusion of 2-A based on the phrase word "many". I'm not sure it's reasonable to even assume 2-B merely from the word "many." All of these tiers are infinite, so the DW being infinite isn't really evidence for anything about Low 2-C. Without specific evidence of there being infinite universes, 2-A is sort of made up out of thin air.

I'm referring to the space that contains them... Regardless I'm about to make a thread about that topic now.

@Sir_Ovens Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure a universe-sized space-time doesn't have to be infinite to be Low 2-C. It just needs to at least be the size of our observable universe

You are correct, the space just needs to be universal in size, the Tier 2 part comes from it having an infinite number of snapshots (the temporal aspect/timeline)

 

[Deagonx]

I'm guessing the logic is that the Demon World contains a space-times within it and is infinite in size relative to them, thus making it 2-A

That would make it Low 1-C.