Calc Stacking in Tokyo Revengers

[Zefra3011]

Alright guys this will probably annoy a lot of people, I was reading the calcs posted on the Tokyo Revengers' page and I noticed that out of 6 calcs some of them use calc stacking to get higher results, there are two main parts of the calc stacking page that are ignored:

- "Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar."

- "Examples of calc-stacking that can not be applied:
Character A moved so fast that character B couldn't react to him. So character A needs to have crossed the distance until he could be seen by character B again in the time that character B requires to react. Since we know from a calculation how long character B needs to react we can calculate the speed of character A based on that."

• Takemichi dodges a kick, "mikey's kick speed should be fte speed ,cuz too many character can't react his kick speed,and in that picture had blurring/afterimage effect", as we cleary see from the calc stacking page "regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar" we can't use use 34 m/s just because Mikey already has FTE feats because "Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used" also bluring/afterimage effect doesn't imply a fte attack, I can myself create and bluring/afterimage effect and I'm not subsonic so I don't understand why a drawing style for movements is used as excuse to amp the result of the calc, a lot of manga, mahwa and comics use this kind of style for the movements but doesn't mean the attack is subsonic for that, this can also be applied to South deflects an umbrella, "For the speed of the umbrella, I'm going to use baseline subsonic speed, because Senju is top tier character in the verse (a verse where even mid tiers can be scaled above baseline FTE) and the panel is drawn with a lot of motion blur, indicating that the umbrella was thrown at a very high speed." this is against the rules too, just because FTE feats exist in the verse it doesn't mean that umbrella was going FTE ("regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar"), Takemichi dodges a kick (2) was initially rejected because of the reason I provided for the other two calcs but apparently he used an external source to get 31 m/s speed, I won't discuss it because I'm just here for the calc stacking and it's not.

• Izana dashes at Mikey, I'm not here to say why I don't agree with the calc in general but again there is calc stacking, since using a reaction speed from other calcs and feats is calc stacking and in this calc subsonic reaction is used and we can't use it, it is used because the characters are supersonic therefore subsonic reaction should be fine but still it goes agaonst the rules. "Examples of calc-stacking that can not be applied: Character A moved so fast that character B couldn't react to him. So character A needs to have crossed the distance until he could be seen by character B again in the time that character B requires to react. Since we know from a calculation how long character B needs to react we can calculate the speed of character A based on that."

I believe these calcs need a recalculation without using calck stacking or to be removed because they clearly go against the rules.

I think these speeds for the verse can be used instead:

1. Mikey DI and South DI : superhuman speed
2. God tiers in general: peak human
3. anyone else: athletic human

Izana saves Kakucho from bullets and Draken saves Takemitchi from bullets don't use calc staking so I'm fine with them for now.

 

[CorbinMLG]

- "Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar."

- "Examples of calc-stacking that can not be applied:
Character A moved so fast that character B couldn't react to him. So character A needs to have crossed the distance until he could be seen by character B again in the time that character B requires to react. Since we know from a calculation how long character B needs to react we can calculate the speed of character A based on that."

None of the calculations have anything to do with these.

I think these speeds for the verse can be used instead:

1. Mikey DI and South DI : superhuman speed
2. God tiers in general: peak human
3. anyone else: athletic human

No.

 

[Zefra3011]

None of the calculations have anything to do with these.


No.

Do you mind to explain?

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Read the manga properly, know where they scale by feats, and analyse the panels properly and only after that make a thread.

Thank you.

 

[Zefra3011]

Read the manga properly, know where they scale by feats, and analyse the panels properly and only after that make a thread.

Thank you.

the problem is litterally that you calc based on other feats which isn't allowed

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

the problem is litterally that you calc based on other feats which isn't allowed

No.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I'm fairly sure most of these were discussed even with calc group members and they didn't find a problem. Regardless, I will tag some to get a proper evaluation.

@Therefir @Damage3245 @KLOL506 your input here would be appreciated.

 

[Therefir]

Well, there's a reason I no longer evaluate Tokyo Revengers calc: They suck ass.

Like Takemichi getting Supersonic speeds from a character who is supposed to be comparable to him if not superior like Mikey.

Isn't that funny, how the calc only works if Mikey's kick is Subsonic, several times slower than Takemichi, but at the same time Mikey scales from him using that same calc.

And if you point out the obvious contradiction, they will say he was holding back here, even though holding back he was still comparable to Takemichi, who had trouble dodging that "Subsonic" kick to begin with.

 

[CorbinMLG]

Takemichi dodges a kick
Takemichi dodges a kick (2)

34.3 m/s can be used because Takemichi can't perceive Mikey's kicks and can only dodge them barely thanks to his Evolved Foresight.

South deflects an umbrella

South confirms that the umbrella is blurry.

Izana dashes at Mikey

I think it's already explained well enough.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well, there's a reason I no longer evaluate Tokyo Revengers calc: They suck ass.

Like Takemichi getting Supersonic speeds from a character who is supposed to be comparable to him if not superior like Mikey.

Isn't that funny, how the calc only works if Mikey's kick is Subsonic, several times slower than Takemichi, but at the same time Mikey scales from him using that same calc.

And if you point out the obvious contradiction, they will say he was holding back here, even though holding back he was still comparable to Takemichi, who had trouble dodging that "Subsonic" kick to begin with.

I see. Thank you for commenting regardless.

 

[Therefir]

The calc have many other issues, like assuming the position of Takemichi's arm before the kick.

Like c'mon, Mikey's kick have already crossed a full arc at the same time Takemichi's arm moved back, Mikey's kick is the one who crossed a larger distance...

 

[Zefra3011]

34.3 m/s can be used because Takemichi can't perceive Mikey's kicks and can only dodge them barely thanks to his Evolved Foresight.

For a human is already hard to properly react to atheltic human / peak human

South confirms that the umbrella is blurry.

He just didn't expect the situation and his first thought was blocking it as soon as possible

I think it's already explained well enough.

you didn't explain why using a reaction from a feat is valid when the rules say you can't do that

 

[Therefir]

I see. Thank you for commenting regardless.

No problem, I'll simply proceed to stop following this mess and politely tell Tokyo Revengers fans not to ask me again to evaluate this verse's calcs, because I don't like neither the method nor the assumptions, and I don't even agree with the premise they sometimes put to these feats.

 

[Zefra3011]

Well, there's a reason I no longer evaluate Tokyo Revengers calc: They suck ass.

Like Takemichi getting Supersonic speeds from a character who is supposed to be comparable to him if not superior like Mikey.

Isn't that funny, how the calc only works if Mikey's kick is Subsonic, several times slower than Takemichi, but at the same time Mikey scales from him using that same calc.

And if you point out the obvious contradiction, they will say he was holding back here, even though holding back he was still comparable to Takemichi, who had trouble dodging that "Subsonic" kick to begin with.

the feat can be considered an outlier then?

 

[Zefra3011]

No problem, I'll simply proceed to stop following this mess and politely tell Tokyo Revengers fans not to ask me again to evaluate this verse's calcs, because I don't like neither the method nor the assumptions, and I don't even agree with the premise they sometimes put to these feats.

I see, thank you for your reply

 

[CorbinMLG]

For a human is already hard to properly react to atheltic human / peak human

Takemichi can't perceive the kicks. That's faster than eye.

He just didn't expect the situation and his first thought was blocking it as soon as possible

He had to see it before blocking it.

you didn't explain why using a reaction from a feat is valid when the rules say you can't do that

The calculation uses that time frame because of the reactions of characters at that certain moment.

 

[Zefra3011]

Takemichi can't perceive the kicks. That's faster than eye.

To don't perceive the kick it should be like x3/x4 time faster that Takemichi but he just need some advantage, if Mikey could completely blitz him with his attacks Take shouldn't be able to dodge it even with precognition in fact when Mikey was getting faster he no longer could dodge them, even with precognition you can't see someone who can completely blitz you, in boxe normally you don't see a jab so any boxer is subsonic? it's normal to don't be able to react to a close attack unless properly trainer / faster than your opponent

He had to see it before blocking it.

If I attack you from behind and you somehow react to me you won't still realize if I want to punch you, push you or whatever you just see me coming, also by your logic if that umbrella was a blur to South so basically faster than him since apparently blur = I can blitz you, how can he react to it?
Taking "an ubrella?" as "that was faster than my perception" is wrong and an excuse to use subsonic

The calculation uses that time frame because of the reactions of characters at that certain moment.

yes and that's calc stacking

 

[Syncornize]

Alright guys this will probably annoy a lot of people, I was reading the calcs posted on the Tokyo Revengers' page and I noticed that out of 6 calcs some of them use calc stacking to get higher results, there are two main parts of the calc stacking page that are ignored:

- "Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar."

- "Examples of calc-stacking that can not be applied:
Character A moved so fast that character B couldn't react to him. So character A needs to have crossed the distance until he could be seen by character B again in the time that character B requires to react. Since we know from a calculation how long character B needs to react we can calculate the speed of character A based on that."

• Takemichi dodges a kick, "mikey's kick speed should be fte speed ,cuz too many character can't react his kick speed,and in that picture had blurring/afterimage effect", as we cleary see from the calc stacking page "regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar" we can't use use 34 m/s just because Mikey already has FTE feats because "Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used" also bluring/afterimage effect doesn't imply a fte attack, I can myself create and bluring/afterimage effect and I'm not subsonic so I don't understand why a drawing style for movements is used as excuse to amp the result of the calc, a lot of manga, mahwa and comics use this kind of style for the movements but doesn't mean the attack is subsonic for that, this can also be applied to South deflects an umbrella, "For the speed of the umbrella, I'm going to use baseline subsonic speed, because Senju is top tier character in the verse (a verse where even mid tiers can be scaled above baseline FTE) and the panel is drawn with a lot of motion blur, indicating that the umbrella was thrown at a very high speed." this is against the rules too, just because FTE feats exist in the verse it doesn't mean that umbrella was going FTE ("regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar"), Takemichi dodges a kick (2) was initially rejected because of the reason I provided for the other two calcs but apparently he used an external source to get 31 m/s speed, I won't discuss it because I'm just here for the calc stacking and it's not.

• Izana dashes at Mikey, I'm not here to say why I don't agree with the calc in general but again there is calc stacking, since using a reaction speed from other calcs and feats is calc stacking and in this calc subsonic reaction is used and we can't use it, it is used because the characters are supersonic therefore subsonic reaction should be fine but still it goes agaonst the rules. "Examples of calc-stacking that can not be applied: Character A moved so fast that character B couldn't react to him. So character A needs to have crossed the distance until he could be seen by character B again in the time that character B requires to react. Since we know from a calculation how long character B needs to react we can calculate the speed of character A based on that."

I believe these calcs need a recalculation without using calck stacking or to be removed because they clearly go against the rules.

I think these speeds for the verse can be used instead:

1. Mikey DI and South DI : superhuman speed
2. God tiers in general: peak human
3. anyone else: athletic human

Izana saves Kakucho from bullets and Draken saves Takemitchi from bullets don't use calc staking so I'm fine with them for now.

I agree.This is calc stacking

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

"Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar."

Atleast get the definition right blud, I initially ignored this because I don't think it'll get attention because of how wrong it is.

We are NOT using calculated speed from other feats to scale them.
We are using FTE speeds because they have those feats without needing a calculation.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I'm fairly sure most of these were discussed even with calc group members and they didn't find a problem. Regardless, I will tag some to get a proper evaluation.

@Therefir @Damage3245 @KLOL506 your input here would be appreciated.

Don't tag KLOL, he said he doesn't want to be associated with Tokyo Revengers calcs several times.

 

[Zefra3011]

Atleast get the definition right blud, I initially ignored this because I don't think it'll get attention because of how wrong it is.

We are NOT using calculated speed from other feats to scale them.
We are using FTE speeds because they have those feats without needing a calculation.

"Hiding calculations is the practice of trying to avoid calculating a feat in order to be able to use the result in another calculation. In other words it is the practice of trying to fool people into not noticing that calc stacking is being used.

This usually occurs if a feat is quantified per a rule of thumb instead of precisely calculated. A typical example would be a character dodging a bullet from a short distance being ranked as "Supersonic" and then using that ranking to calculate the speed of another character, whose speed one can compare to the former in some feat.

While it is acceptable to rank a character by such a self-evident feat without a calculation, one should keep in mind that the unwritten calculation is only skipped due to being trivial, but is still the justification for the ranking. Hence calc stacking will still be an issue for such feats."

Reasons like "he has FTE feats", "he is faster than sound", " he can dodge bullets" even without a calculation are still considered calc stacking, so just because you say "TR has too many FTE feats and Mikey is top 1 he must be at least subsonic" is still calc stacking, calc stacking doesn't imply that you can't only use others calcs for a new one but also you can't use other feats but again there is a rule in the same page which says that you CAN'T use the speed of a character even if he is bloodlusted, he is doing his best or any other reason, you CAN'T use it.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Reasons like "he has FTE feats", "he is faster than sound", " he can dodge bullets" even without a calculation are still considered calc stacking, so just because you say "TR has too many FTE feats and Mikey is top 1 he must be at least subsonic" is still calc stacking, calc stacking doesn't imply that you can't only use others calcs for a new one but also you can't use other feats but again there is a rule in the same page which says that you CAN'T use the speed of a character even if he is bloodlusted, he is doing his best or any other reason, you CAN'T use it.

You can, and in this case, FTE is CONSISTENT throughout the verse.
Even for other verses, they're being used all over the Wiki.

 

[Syncornize]

You can, and in this case, FTE is CONSISTENT throughout the verse.
Even for other verses, they're being used all over the Wiki.

No, you can't. Other calculations have been rejected for the same reasoning. If that was an attack that was assumed to be subsonic the calculation would be legitimate but it is not. If this were legitimate, reaching speeds like FTL would be much easier with this reasoning. Also in the umbrella calculation it was assumed that the umbrella had the same speed as the character, my speed ≠ the speed at which I throw objects or something

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

No, you can't. Other calculations have been rejected for the same reasoning. If that was an attack that was assumed to be subsonic the calculation would be legitimate but it is not. If this were legitimate, reaching speeds like FTL would be much easier with this reasoning. Also in the umbrella calculation it was assumed that the umbrella had the same speed as the character, my speed ≠ the speed at which I throw objects or something

Except for that South only knows what the object was, after it was deflected, meaning it's faster than your basic 34.3 attack which he can easily perceive

 

[Zefra3011]

You can, and in this case, FTE is CONSISTENT throughout the verse.
Even for other verses, they're being used all over the Wiki.

I never said anything about the FTE being consistent in the verse nothing change the fact that you can't use the actual speed of a character for calcs

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I never said anything about the FTE being consistent in the verse nothing change the fact that you can't use the actual speed of a character for calcs

I didn't, if I do, I'd be using Supersonic - supersonic+ speeds then

 

[Zefra3011]

Except for that South only knows what the object was, after it was deflected, meaning it's faster than your basic 34.3 attack which he can easily perceive

That an excuse, for example there is no scenario where before/while being punched you will say "a punch" you will always say it after the action, South was surprised by the action itself because he didn't expect It, also by your logic if the umbrella was faster than South's eye how did he block It? Is South faster than his eye?

 

[Zefra3011]

I didn't, if I do, I'd be using Supersonic - supersonic+ speeds then

No is still calc stacking because you can explain the FTE speed only bringing up other feats, as long as a number comes from feats or calcs is calc stacking, many of your calcs as been rejected for this reason

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

That an excuse, for example there is no scenario where before/while being pinched you will say "A punch" you will always say it After the action, South was surprised by the action itself because he didn't expect that also by your logic if the umbrella was faster than South's eye how did he block It? Is South faster than his eye?

The fact that he looked back at it to see what the object thrown was paints one picture clearer than the other. If he already knew what it was, why tf would he be distracted by it? He'd rather focus on senju.

No is still calc stacking because you can explain the FTE speed only bringing up other feats, as long as a number comes from feats or calcs is calc stacking, many of your calcs as been rejected for this reason

Then we'd have to reject most calcs in this site, including lookism calcs

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'll check every calc of this verse because shit is getting sus asf. I'll revise only the wrong ones, by the way.

AP:

• Takemichi tanks explosion - "Well i use anime version,because it' better than to use manga vesion", no.
• Diji cuts Tsukuyo in half with his Bug - This is not even a calc for the verse but a common feat, why is this even here?
• Baji destroys a windshield - Same as above
• Angry runs over delinquents - Isn't this just... your average motorcycle KE? Why it is even a calc?
• Tatsuhiko leaps across building gap - STOP LINKING COMMON FEATS HERE FFS
• Morinaga gets hit by Seki's car - Siiiiiiiigh
• Ichigo destroys hotel room with a Telehandler - Yeah... I am getting tired of this.

Speed:

• Takemichi dodges a kick - "mikey's kick speed should be fte speed ,cuz too many character can't react his kick speed,and in that picture had blurring/afterimage effect" why should it be FTE? I can't react to a car coming against me at full speed, but it does not make said car FTE.

• Izana dashes at Mikey - For the timeframe, I'm going to use 0.0291s because of the reactions of characters like Chifuyu and Peh-Yan (who are scaled above subsonic) - It's not how it works. Being scaled above a fan calc is not grounds for a "safe" end, that comes ONLY if said speed is directly stated in-verse.

• Takemichi dodges a kick (2) - Attack speed of Mikey's kick is 34.3, Tokyo Revengers has many FTE feat's, Mikey is the strongest and the fastest in the verse so his kicks are very easily FTE he also broke the sound barrier when kicking Taiju Shiba which exceeds 85 m/s by 100s of metres so I believe using the high ball is more then fair and the lowball should no matter what be accepted since Mikey very obv has low end subsonic kick speed - Yeah... no.

• South deflects an umbrella - Why even assuming the umbrella is FTE simply because of a FTE character throwing it??????

No like... this is legit bad. Very, very bad.

 

[Zefra3011]

The fact that he looked back at it to see what the object thrown was paints one picture clearer than the other. If he already knew what it was, why tf would he be distracted by it? He'd rather focus on senju.

Alright then South can block things faster than his eyes, makes sense to me

Then we'd have to reject most calcs in this site, including lookism calcs

not discussing about lookism since I didn't read it, also it will go out of topic to discuss calcs of another verse

 

[StrymULTRA]

Alright then South can block things faster than his eyes, makes sense to me

The umbrella calc legit ******* sucks ngl.

Next is what? Making a calc for everytime Goku blocks a punch, assuming that is FTL due to the feats of the verse?

 

[Syncornize]

Except for that South only knows what the object was, after it was deflected, meaning it's faster than your basic 34.3 attack which he can easily perceive

Your argument doesn't have a sufficiently consistent logical basis, just because it did not recognize the object does not imply that it was FTE, simply the object was fast . Your conclusion totally ignores the dynamics of the calculation situation. Senju comes out of nowhere throwing an unknown object at South at a close distance, using superhuman speed, taking into account that the distance between the 2 was 10m ,the time taken by the umbrella in reaching South would be extremely low. Senju initially comes from South's right. By the time we see Terano turned in Senju's direction the umbrella has already almost reached the target, so I see no reason why it cannot be said that South turned at the time the umbrella was close to him .It is however logical and possible that I may not recognize an object in flight by seeing it only after its actual throw since I find it quite obvious that South did not see Senju before the throw. To say that in this case the umbrella was FTE without a clear subsonic feat is an exaggeration. I also don't see how South can be supersonic if it sees blurry something subsonic.



on the calculation page you wrote that it would be a good assumption to consider it FTe since the characters in the work can reach that speed, this is Calc Stacking, the page about it says exactly that: This usually occurs if a feat is quantified per a rule of thumb instead of precisely calculated. A typical example would be a character dodging a bullet from a short distance being ranked as "Supersonic" and then using that ranking to calculate the speed of another character, whose speed one can compare to the former in some feat. the other motivation is a simple visual effect or impression which is definitely not a sufficient prerequisite for an FTE feat, even a movement of a human can create that effect. Senju's hands have a much more pronounced blur so would the movement of the hands be faster than the umbrella ? of course not, it is just a visual impression that emphasizes the movement.

 

[Syncornize]

The umbrella calc legit ******* sucks ngl.

Next is what? Making a calc for everytime Goku blocks a punch, assuming that is FTL due to the feats of the verse?

you are not the only one who disagrees, some of the calc on this page I see as extreme or with incorrect assumptions

 

[Syncornize]

To don't perceive the kick it should be like x3/x4 time faster that Takemichi but he just need some advantage, if Mikey could completely blitz him with his attacks Take shouldn't be able to dodge it even with precognition in fact when Mikey was getting faster he no longer could dodge them, even with precognition you can't see someone who can completely blitz you, in boxe normally you don't see a jab so any boxer is subsonic? it's normal to don't be able to react to a close attack unless properly trainer / faster than your opponent

If I attack you from behind and you somehow react to me you won't still realize if I want to punch you, push you or whatever you just see me coming, also by your logic if that umbrella was a blur to South so basically faster than him since apparently blur = I can blitz you, how can he react to it?
Taking "an ubrella?" as "that was faster than my perception" is wrong and an excuse to use subsonic

yes and that's calc stacking

totally agree with your reasoning

 

[Vapourrrrr]

I'll check every calc of this verse because shit is getting sus asf. I'll revise only the wrong ones, by the way.

AP:

• Takemichi tanks explosion - "Well i use anime version,because it' better than to use manga vesion", no.
• Diji cuts Tsukuyo in half with his Bug - This is not even a calc for the verse but a common feat, why is this even here?
• Baji destroys a windshield - Same as above
• Angry runs over delinquents - Isn't this just... your average motorcycle KE? Why it is even a calc?
• Tatsuhiko leaps across building gap - STOP LINKING COMMON FEATS HERE FFS
• Morinaga gets hit by Seki's car - Siiiiiiiigh
• Ichigo destroys hotel room with a Telehandler - Yeah... I am getting tired of this.

Speed:

• Takemichi dodges a kick - "mikey's kick speed should be fte speed ,cuz too many character can't react his kick speed,and in that picture had blurring/afterimage effect" why should it be FTE? I can't react to a car coming against me at full speed, but it does not make said car FTE.

• Izana dashes at Mikey - For the timeframe, I'm going to use 0.0291s because of the reactions of characters like Chifuyu and Peh-Yan (who are scaled above subsonic) - It's not how it works. Being scaled above a fan calc is not grounds for a "safe" end, that comes ONLY if said speed is directly stated in-verse.

• Takemichi dodges a kick (2) - Attack speed of Mikey's kick is 34.3, Tokyo Revengers has many FTE feat's, Mikey is the strongest and the fastest in the verse so his kicks are very easily FTE he also broke the sound barrier when kicking Taiju Shiba which exceeds 85 m/s by 100s of metres so I believe using the high ball is more then fair and the lowball should no matter what be accepted since Mikey very obv has low end subsonic kick speed - Yeah... no.

• South deflects an umbrella - Why even assuming the umbrella is FTE simply because of a FTE character throwing it??????

No like... this is legit bad. Very, very bad.

Im convinced you didn't read some of these, Takemichi dodges a kick (2) uses 31 m/s...

 

[StrymULTRA]

Im convinced you didn't read some of these, Takemichi dodges a kick (2) uses 31 m/s...

Which is still baseless.

 

[Vapourrrrr]

I don't get the problems here, Tokyo revengers calcs always have a problem and yet no one has given any good reasoning behind it. Mikey can break the sound barrier with a kick and has done so multiple times, his kicks are literally always FTE even in the beginning of the series, why would he slow his kicks down for Takemichi ? What an odd assumption

South blocks an umbrella is simple, he wasn't even able to percieve it ? South a character who scales to supersonic+ on his profile couldn't percieve an umbrella moving at 31 m/s ( speed of a javeline throw ), it seems odd, also morris gave good reasoning behind it, I don't get why there is a problem with this one even after morris's reasoning

Izana dashes at Mikey, Mikey was surprised at the speed of Izana and so were other characters who scale to supersonic, using 0.0290 is a lowball to be frank

 

[Vapourrrrr]

Which is still baseless.

What ?

 

[Syncornize]

I don't get the problems here, Tokyo revengers calcs always have a problem and yet no one has given any good reasoning behind it. Mikey can break the sound barrier with a kick and has done so multiple times, his kicks are literally always FTE even in the beginning of the series, why would he slow his kicks down for Takemichi ? What an odd assumption

South blocks an umbrella is simple, he wasn't even able to percieve it ? South a character who scales to supersonic+ on his profile couldn't percieve an umbrella moving at 31 m/s ( speed of a javeline throw ), it seems odd, also morris gave good reasoning behind it, I don't get why there is a problem with this one even after morris's reasoning

Izana dashes at Mikey, Mikey was surprised at the speed of Izana and so were other characters who scale to supersonic, using 0.0290 is a lowball to be frank

No, the firts consistently subsonic kick is the one against Taiju. The anime confirms that the dull sound is not the breaking of the sound barrier and such a feat would not be described as a dull sound. that feats like Mikey's on Osanai a human is capable of doing it