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It was accepted by klol. This forum is taking Tokyo Revengers down alot. The verse will be moved to sub+ to transonic at this rate.
It’s not looking good for them.
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BIGGEST Tokyo Revengers Dowgrade Calculations Heheh
- Thread starter Second22
- Start date
It’s not looking good for them.
RoggerReggor
He/Him- 2,301
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Maybe. I have a subsonic+ calc for the verse too.
Taiju disappeared from the sight when Mikey kicked him. Mikey moved his legs 180deg or 3.141592653589. Mikey's leg would be 0.8 m through this.
3.141592653589*0.8 = 2.51327412 m
The processing speed of an eye is 0.013 seconds. So, the speed would be 2.51327412/0.013 = 193.328778 m/s (subsonic+).
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It’s Been calculated before. It was taken down.
Anyways back to topic. What do you we need to apply these changes? I feel like we should get morris, mastrad and others to defend their points but I don’t know.
RoggerReggor
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@Second22 What's your opinion about this LS calc? If you agree with my opinion, please add this to your thread as well.
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Ouch. You can’t use 0.013 unfortunately. The wiki doesn’t accept it.
RoggerReggor
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It isn't like we are going to apply these changes in one day. It would take at least a week. I am still waiting for KLOL to finish his exams and give his opinion on the WR students bump from like half a month because I don't want the changes to get debunked as soon as they are applied. Morris, Mastrad and others would eventually notice this thread and comment their opinions. If they even miss the opportunity, they can always make an upgrade rebunk thread where they can give an argument.
RoggerReggor
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There's a CSM (chainsaw man) calc which accepts this. The wiki just treats perceiving and processing differently.
Second22
They/Them- 1,384
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- Thread starter
- #48
It's not necessary to calculate. Blurriness has many factors, such as drawing techniques and the degree of blurriness. I didn't see Izana moving blurry all the way, and the characters in the manga didn't see Izana moving blurry either. Creating a short blur isn't that difficult. Try moving your hand quickly and look at your hand movement.
RoggerReggor
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Thanks for the explanation, I could have proved myself subsonic if you never explained this to me. The Izana dashing at Mikey calc doesn't seem correct to me at all now.
Second22
They/Them- 1,384
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- #50
I don't think it's necessary to that extent. It's true that getting accurate results is good, but this calculation hardly affect this verse at all. I don't think we need to worry about it to that extent. If you want to try, go ahead, but I'm too lazy to bother with it. Haha
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No problem. I tried calculating using the projectile method and we get a result of 9-C, which is slightly higher than before
Tokyo Revengers - Taiju Destroys a church pew (KE)
vsbattles.fandom.com
RoggerReggor
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@Second22 If Taiju's calc gets downgraded, the only calc with TR for LS would be this. What do you think about my opinion? I personally think that assuming a velocity is not exactly correct here. Specially when Chonbo's voice line is already taking too long?
RoggerReggor
He/Him- 2,301
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For sure, I will make a thread once all of this has settled.
RoggerReggor
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Also, KLOL himself made a downgrade calc for Baji cratering the wall: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KLOL506/Tokyo_Revengers:_Baji_Makes_a_Crater which was also evaluated by a CGM. Don't know why the previous 148 kJ calc is still on the verse page, or is it a mistake? 
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He moved from that distance right after the first bullet was shot.
So you are saying that he was already within 1 meter before the first bullet was shot? That doesn't work because then he would have punched the pistol out of the shooter's hand before he could have shot. Why would he even move between the shooter and Takemichi in that case? He had to see the bullets getting shot at Takemichi further from a meter away, which is why he chose to move between the shooter and Takemichi so that he can take the bullets, only punching the shooter afterwards.
Second22
They/Them- 1,384
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- #57
I never said he moved one meter because we don't know which side he came from. I made it clear that assuming he only moved one meter was invalid. The reason why he didn't snatch the gun from the shooter is simple: the distance to the gun may be longer than the distance he traveled to get to where we saw him. So, he could only move towards between the shooter and Takemichi.
RoggerReggor
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Where's the proof for that? Kakucho had enough time to scream and run towards Kisaki. Isn't Izana faster than Kakucho? And if Kakucho is even subsonic, shouldn't he himself be able to close the distance between them in the time where he screamed and Kisaki said "Die."? The best thing we can do is to wait for an anime adaptation, which wouldn't take so long. Because you can't possibly assume the time for when Izana started running or when Kisaki fired the gun.
Ok, so you are talking about common sense. So according to you, if Izana was already within a meter, he should be able to punch the pistol out of Kisaki's hand. But let me try to give a common sense for common sense. Why didn't Mikey chase Kisaki when he ran away on a bike? The fastest bike available in today's world is 350 mph or 156.464 m/s, so shouldn't Mikey be able to at least give him a chase even on an initial level if he was already supersonic+?
I understand that what we see are calcs, but even saying that "He could have punched the pistol out of shooter's hand if he was that near" is nothing more than an assumption of what could have happened instead of what actually happened.
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We do know. He couldn't come from behind the shooters or from behind Takemichi and Senju for obvious reasons, and he couldn't come from the shooter's right side because there is literally a wall there. He came from the shooter's left side, exactly from where Senju came from earlier.
If you want to make it more that's fine, this is an extreme lowball. Making it less isn't fine.
The gun should be closer. If he saw the situation from 20 meters for example, he wouldn't have ran towards Takemichi but towards the gun.
Izana had no conscious intentions of saving Kakucho, so there is no reason for him to move from where he was just seconds ago. His body moved on its own after seeing the first bullet being shot.
Yes that would make more sense, but he wasn't thinking when doing it because his body moved on its own. His subconscious feelings likely just gave his body the command to save Kakucho in the quickest way possible, which was this.
Even if we ignore these two calculations, there are still feats that would get Mikey above that. Dumb inconsistencies like that are pretty common, not just in Tokyo Revengers.
You are also assuming the opposite, difference is that what you are assuming is irrational.
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They are different feats by the way.
RoggerReggor
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Ok, I agree to that, but how can you say that his body moved on its own after seeing the first bullet being shot? Kakucho had enough time to scream and run forward and Kisaki had already made it clear that he was going to get rid of Kakucho by saying "You're a goddamn nuisance.". If Izana's body moved on its own after comprehending the fact that Kakucho would die, cannot he already make a run for it once Kakucho starts running towards Kisaki?
You are saying that Izana could have punched the weapon out of Kisaki's hand. And it is just an assumption, you aren't giving up any proofs for that but just stating psychological statements that why Izana would want to do that, but not noticing his physical limitations.
I myself said that what matter is calc, so there's no need to reply to this when this isn't even a point.
I am assuming? I am actually not. What I am doing is agreeing with the thread starter. There's a difference between saying why it is bad to assume and assuming itself.
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I'll probably comment on everything else later, but I completely disagree with the first part of th OP, saying that destruction values are randomly chosen.
People do intensive research to find these values and use actual math yo determine which works. Even more discussion is then had to see which of the values work best.
I think it's quite insensitive and ignorant to say that.
People do intensive research to find these values and use actual math yo determine which works. Even more discussion is then had to see which of the values work best.
I think it's quite insensitive and ignorant to say that.
Second22
They/Them- 1,384
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- Thread starter
- #63
He doesn't necessarily have to come from the side or back. We can assume that he came at a 45-degree angle from Takemichi. That makes the distance from the gun farther away from Takemichi. Honestly, this assumption and calculation are too much. The feat is just blocking bullets. We don't really know if he moved at the exact moment the gun was fired, and the direction of movement is still random. We can assume a lot from this situation.
Second22
They/Them- 1,384
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I clearly stated that in some situations, do you think destruction values give accurate values every time? It is an easy and approximate way to obtain results. We do not need to use destruction values every time for finding the solution, as using kinetic energy would give more logical and accurate results. Or do you think in this situation, destruction values give more accurate results than KE?
RoggerReggor
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Fr, Senju was also already making a run for it before the gun was even fired. Draken might be doing the same ngl.
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Because the sight of the gun being shot works as visual stimuli that triggered it. If it would have been a matter of his body just comprehending the fact that Kakucho would die he could have moved far sooner. He could have even stopped Kakucho from running to begin with.
He wasn't even less than a meter away from Kisaki, you started this out hypothetically, don't know what proof you want. Izana being able to do that if not for his body moving on its own isn't even debatable because he can blitz Kisaki easily. The psychological things I'm talking about are literally what happening though, not sure what your problem is with them either. Consciously he views Kakucho as a servant and nothing more, someone who he doesn't care about at all. His true feelings are completely different on the other hand, but he isn't aware of them and he doesn't recognize them. His body follows his true feelings and makes him move instinctually after being triggered by the gun shot. The goal of his body was just to save Kakucho no matter what, so he jumped in front of him and pushed him away, even if it resulted in injuring himself.
To be more precise, the thread starter is assuming a more illogical sequence of events than what I'm assuming. If it comes down to two assumptions the rational one should be the one we go with.
He had to come from around 135-150 degrees to the shooter's left from where Senju came from, or around 60-80 degrees to the shooter's left from the other side of the restroom. Either way he was around in the middle or closer to the shooter, especially in the second case. (The degrees are just rough estimates, I just want you to know what places I'm talking about)
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Second22
They/Them- 1,384
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- Thread starter
- #67
Regardless, that's not the reason why he moved one meter in that timeframe. Draken reached for the gun, but he was still shot. The shooter couldn't see Draken, but just at the moment the bullet was fired, Draken was hit. He was about to swipe or push the gun away, but at that moment, he couldn't reach the gun, and Draken was still shot. So, his speed is not related to the timeframe in which the bullet was fired. He just couldn't get there in time when the gun was fired.
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You shouldn't disregard where he came from like that. My entire point with this is that he couldn't come from an angle where Takemichi was just so much closer to him than the shooter that all he could do is just jump in front of Takemichi in time. From every angle if he got within a meter he could have punched the pistol out of the shooter's hand from his left side before he could do anything. The fact that he still ended up moving in front of the bullets means he was further than a meter away at the time the gun was shot, and since he couldn't just punch the pistol out of the shooter's hand at that point, he had to move in front of the bullets, because that was the only way to save Takemichi.
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Unless the throw has a specific stated speed, using the destruction value makes more sense here.
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MorrisHatesYou
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What would be the alternative? I've seen some scales using baseline Subsonic reaction speeds for characters from different verse and CGMs don't seem to have a problem with it. I think it can be used for X character being comparable or fighting on par with Y character who can fight at FTE or above speeds.
I think that was accepted because of the order of the panels. If you look at the 2nd panel of the 2nd scan here, it's clear that it was Draken's movement. An argument can also be made that Draken came before the shots, and the goon shot him and after that Draken knocked the gun away, but it wouldn't make sense that the goon trigger speed would be faster than Draken's attack speed. Also Corbin already made a recalc of this.
I wholeheartedly and utterly disagree with this, I think you should first look at the context behind the feat, Izana moving before the shot would most likely mean he made a conscious decision, but that's not the case, he literally had a mental breakdown and he doesn't care about the situation, and he said that his body moved on its own, indicating his actions are triggered by something, and here the most obvious answer would be the gun being fired.
I think others are alright
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MorrisHatesYou
Username Only- 698
- 384
That argument comes from people who have zero idea how to read a manga, reading starts from right to left in Tokyo revengers, and if you look at the panel, the first "bang" sound effect was exclusively shown on Kisaki's panel, meaning Kisaki shot the gun first, Izana's movement was only shown during the 2nd and 3rd shot
Second22
They/Them- 1,384
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It's not even a Blitz. Please read the entire thread to the end.
Where is Draken?
Once again, we didn't see him start moving at any point. What you're saying is only speculation. The gun had already been fired before that. He didn't need to move from 7 meters away.
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The guy who says "that was fast" is around the guy who screams Mikey speed wise, and he got utterly destroyed. By "that was fast" he doesn't just mean somewhat fast, but really really fast.
Did you even read what I said?
Second22
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It's natural that he had to move to protect Takemitchi. The movement we see in picture 2 is when he fired the gun, not when Draken moved to block the bullet. From the picture, we can interpret it as Draken moving in to block the bullet, and then the gun was fired. After that, Draken swept the gun away, and it wasn't necessary for him to move under the frame when the bullet was fired.
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When I was talking to @RoggerReggor.
