somewhat large-ish Sans CRT

[Roachman40]

remade profile here

I didn't really add much with this, just changed and removed some things, which I will list below.

• heavily expanded the Intelligence section.
• Added refs
• Removed Intangible Attacks: Ngl im not sure what the reason for this is, if its for his attacks being able to harm the SOUL than that is just Dura Negation/NPI. Sans attacks have been stated to harm tangible, soulless beings before, that of which being Flowey.
• Changed Air Manipulation to a likely considering we don't really know how it was made, but probably was made by sans in some way still.
• Removed 4th Wall Breaking: this seems to be only granted via the bit with papyrus and sans in the beginning of snowdin, where sans looks at the screen once he does a pun. Honestly I can...sorta get the logic? but overall I don't think it is enough. I have always thought that this part specifically is just a silly scene with its purpose being nothing more than an introduction to papyrus and sans overall, with the moments of the camera zooming in with sans winking at the screen being there to just add humor to the fairly lighthearted situation between the skelebros banter. If that scene specifically is supposed to be taken seriously or naw is not really my main concern with it however, Sans even knowing the existence of the player I feel leads to its own problems. If sans did know of the player's existence we would not see him referring to frisk about the SAVE system but the entity actually pulling the strings, of which he does not. Sans never acknowledges the player in the game even once in dialogue, nor does he acknowledge he is in a video game, things of which he would definitely take note of or at least mentioned if he actually did know of such things, especially in the genocide fight.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

pretty good

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I agree

 

[Armorchompy]

Removed Intangible Attacks: Ngl im not sure what the reason for this is, if its for his attacks being able to harm the SOUL than that is just Dura Negation/NPI. Sans attacks have been stated to harm tangible, soulless beings before, that of which being Flowey.

I think it's because they pass through you rather than disappear on hit like other UT attacks. I assume the interpretation is that since they're definitely not physically tearing through Frisk to do this, they might be intangible. I don't really know if I'd keep it or not personally, but if I had to guess that's the rationale.

Removed 4th Wall Breaking: this seems to be only granted via the bit with papyrus and sans in the beginning of snowdin, where sans looks at the screen once he does a pun. Honestly I can...sorta get the logic? but overall I don't think it is enough. I have always thought that this part specifically is just a silly scene with its purpose being nothing more than an introduction to papyrus and sans overall, with the moments of the camera zooming in with sans winking at the screen being their to just add humor to the fairly lighthearted situation between the skelebros banter. If that scene specifically is supposed to be taken seriously or naw is not really my main concern with it however, Sans even knowing the existence of the player I feel leads to its own problems. If sans did know of the player's existence we would not see him referring to frisk about the SAVE system but the entity actually pulling the strings, of which he does not. Sans never acknowledges the player in the game even once in dialogue, nor does he acknowledge he is in a video game, things of which he would definitely take note of or at least mentioned if he actually did know of such things, especially in the genocide fight.

yeah i think it's just a gag

looks good otherwise

 

[Roachman40]

I think it's because they pass through you rather than disappear on hit like other UT attacks. I assume the interpretation is that since they're definitely not physically tearing through Frisk to do this, they might be intangible. I don't really know if I'd keep it or not personally, but if I had to guess that's the rationale.

I mean with that I kinda thought that was just a design choice to make the lack on INV frames actually work and to pressen the difficulty, cus like, if the attacks did disappear on contact we could just eat through a chunk of his bones due to lack of INV lol, which would kinda cheese the fight to a degree I feel. Sans hurting tangible soulless beings still stands too, I don't think he would be able to hurt flowey if his bones are intangible attacks that of which target the SOUL.

 

[Armorchompy]

idk maybe

 

[Psychomaster35]

Fine with everything here although I disagree with removing 4th Wall Awareness. Even if it was only brief, I'm pretty sure looking at the camera to pose (especially when it zooms in on you) would be enough to say that's breaking the 4th wall.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Fine with everything here although I disagree with removing 4th Wall Awareness. Even if it was only brief, I'm pretty sure looking at the camera to pose (especially when it zooms in on you) would be enough to say that's breaking the 4th wall.

Ditto

 

[Roachman40]

Its moreso that it just seems like a gag feat, sans never really does anything similar to that in-game if im remembering correctly. There's also the other point of sans even knowing of the player leading to its own problems, as explained in the OP.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Gag might not be best way to put it since fourth wall awareness/breaks are often gag-like by nature.

 

[StrymULTRA]

4th wall breaks are gag almost all the time though.

Besides intangible attacks was indeed weird, as they only bypass INV and nothing else.

 

[Roachman40]

Gag might not be best way to put it since fourth wall awareness/breaks are often gag-like by nature.

4th wall breaks are gag almost all the time though.

aye thats fair, could've prob phrased it better.
by gag feat I kinda meant that I dont think it should be taken seriously as an actual feat of sans acknowledgment of the player, and thus should be dismissed.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

aye thats fair, could've prob phrased it better.
by gag feat I kinda meant that I dont think it should be taken seriously as an actual feat of sans acknowledgment of the player, and thus should be dismissed.

Well, me personally I don't like dismissing showings like that unless actually contradicted.

 

[Chariot190]

by gag feat I kinda meant that I dont think it should be taken seriously as an actual feat of sans acknowledgment of the player, and thus should be dismissed.

Eh, if it happens, it happens. Just word it as minor like Jotaro or Gohan have.

 

[Roachman40]

Well, me personally I don't like dismissing showings like that unless actually contradicted.

aye

Sans even knowing the existence of the player I feel leads to its own problems. If sans did know of the player's existence we would not see him referring to frisk about the SAVE system but the entity actually pulling the strings, of which he does not. Sans never acknowledges the player in the game even once in dialogue, nor does he acknowledge he is in a video game, things of which he would definitely take note of or at least mentioned if he actually did know of such things, especially in the genocide fight.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

aye

Mmmm,
Well, if it's so problematic for the narrative (I don't remember it being so, though admit it's been a while since my last playthrough), I suppose it can be disregarded. Then again, given the meta nature of the entire game, I still wouldn't be opposed for a limited/minor, as Chariot suggested.

 

[Chariot190]

You can break the 4th wall and not be hyper-aware like Deadpool or Tsukumojuku or whatever most 4th wall breaks arent, Deadpool-type shit is on the upper extreme
It's just a small break, worst case scenario it's a possibly, though I'd wager Minor covers it all the same.
For Sans' profile picture tho, do a tabber for "Art" and "Sprite" so he can have two quotes and we can give him the genocide route line too

 

[Roachman40]

I suppose it can be disregarded. Then again, given the meta nature of the entire game, I still wouldn't be opposed for a limited/minor, as Chariot suggested.

You can break the 4th wall and not be hyper-aware like Deadpool or Tsukumojuku or whatever most 4th wall breaks arent, Deadpool-type shit is on the upper extreme
It's just a small break, worst case scenario it's a possibly, though I'd wager Minor covers it all the same.

ehhh neutral I suppose, I wouldn't really mind a minor 4th wall break

For Sans' profile picture tho, do a tabber for "Art" and "Sprite" so he can have two quotes and we can give him the genocide route line too

pretty good idea, nice catch

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Profile mostly looks good.

I agree with listing 4th wall breaking as minor.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Armorchompy do you agree with minor 4th-Wall Break, or still think it's only a gag and should be disregarded?

 

[Armorchompy]

Eh, I don't really see looking at the camera as particularly strong evidence for it being 4th wall awareness in the first place

 

[Roachman40]

bump

 

[The_Pink_God]

I said this once and I'll say it again
Sans should not have Hypersonic+ reactions
The gap is too wide (Mach 6 to Mach 10) for feats be alone to close it, I don't think the fact Sans always dodged be enough to make him be 1452 m/s faster

 

[Roachman40]

I said this once and I'll say it again
Sans should not have Hypersonic+ reactions
The gap is too wide (Mach 6 to Mach 10) for feats be alone to close it, I don't think the fact Sans always dodged be enough to make him be 1452 m/s faster

I agree but the speed of the characters would probably best left for another thread, kind of beyond this threads scope I feel due to this just covering the p&a and expanding some things

Someone has already made a CRT addressing the speed of sans and co here, which would probably peak your interests more

 

[Therefir]

The new profile looks good.

 

[ShionAH]

Can we wait for me (the person who made the half of the changes here before doing anything?) Thanks I wil respond now

 

[ShionAH]

• Removed Intangible Attacks: Ngl im not sure what the reason for this is, if its for his attacks being able to harm the SOUL than that is just Dura Negation/NPI. Sans attacks have been stated to harm tangible, soulless beings before, that of which being Flowey.

they are intagible because other attacks in undertale mostly disappear after they hit frisk but sans bones cannot be touched by frisk

• Changed Air Manipulation to a likely considering we don't really know how it was made, but probably was made by sans in some way still.

the only person that can actually enter his room is sans and maybe papyrus

• Removed 4th Wall Breaking: this seems to be only granted via the bit with papyrus and sans in the beginning of snowdin, where sans looks at the screen once he does a pun. Honestly I can...sorta get the logic? but overall I don't think it is enough. I have always thought that this part specifically is just a silly scene with its purpose being nothing more than an introduction to papyrus and sans overall, with the moments of the camera zooming in with sans winking at the screen being there to just add humor to the fairly lighthearted situation between the skelebros banter. If that scene specifically is supposed to be taken seriously or naw is not really my main concern with it however, Sans even knowing the existence of the player I feel leads to its own problems. If sans did know of the player's existence we would not see him referring to frisk about the SAVE system but the entity actually pulling the strings, of which he does not. Sans never acknowledges the player in the game even once in dialogue, nor does he acknowledge he is in a video game, things of which he would definitely take note of or at least mentioned if he actually did know of such things, especially in the genocide fight.

I disagree. Sans looks at the camera, knows a lot of the SAVE and the anomaly, has the dirty hacker ending (yes you said it might not be canon but with the other proof it seems very canon to me.)

 

[ShionAH]

Besides intangible attacks was indeed weird, as they only bypass INV and nothing else.

they bypass frisk as a whole

 

[StrymULTRA]

they bypass frisk as a whole

And? This is the point of danmaku.

 

[ShionAH]

Sans hurting tangible soulless beings still stands too, I don't think he would be able to hurt flowey if his bones are intangible attacks that of which target the SOUL.

We have no idea how sans won against flowey

 

[ShionAH]

And? This is the point of danmaku.

What-? Danmaku has nothing to do with this. Sans attacks just kinda ignore frisk so frisk cannot even touch them or interact with them when they can interact with frisk

 

[StrymULTRA]

What-? Danmaku has nothing to do with this. Sans attacks just kinda ignore frisk so frisk cannot even touch them or interact with them when they can interact with frisk

That just make them ignore INV, it does not mean they're intangible.

 

[ShionAH]

That just make them ignore INV, it does not mean they're intangible.

Every other attack disappears after they hit something because I guess they break after hitting while sans attacks cannot be touched even if frisk uses their body to get hit. I cannot see any proof of why its not intagibility tbh, INV has nothing to do with disappearing attacks

 

[Roachman40]

they are intagible because other attacks in undertale mostly disappear after they hit frisk but sans bones cannot be touched by frisk

We have no idea how sans won against flowey

Aye, just gonna quote what I said earlier.

I mean with that I kinda thought that was just a design choice to make the lack on INV frames actually work and to pressen the difficulty, cus like, if the attacks did disappear on contact we could just eat through a chunk of his bones due to lack of INV lol, which would kinda cheese the fight to a degree I feel.

also, I think the key words here is that sans has killed flowey multiple times, unless sans used the same attack and flowey fell for it everytime (which I doubt), I dont think it would be out of the ordinary to say that he used his magic to attack flowey out of those many times, bones seem to be one of his main forms of attack, after all.

the only person that can actually enter his room is sans and maybe papyrus

Which is why its likely, we still don't know how it was created.

I disagree. Sans looks at the camera, knows a lot of the SAVE and the anomaly, has the dirty hacker ending (yes you said it might not be canon but with the other proof it seems very canon to me.)

Sans knowing about the SAVE System and the Anomaly aren't really proof of sans self awareness about him being in a game, considering the SAVE system is just how the game world works and he is seeing the anomaly through the reports themselves. Sans is still stricken with the memory loss that mostly ever other character in the cast deals with once a RESET does its thing.

I mean even with the other supposed proof the dirty hacker ending isn't really solidified? its still just an error handling message and is something that can only be found through manipulating the game files, which isn't a feature that the game intended.

 

[ShionAH]

Aye, just gonna quote what I said earlier.

also, I think the key words here is that sans has killed flowey multiple times, unless sans used the same attack and flowey fell for it everytime (which I doubt), I dont think it would be out of the ordinary to say that he used his magic to attack flowey out of those many times, bones seem to be one of his main forms of attack, after all.

I still disagree with this plus flowey might be getting downgraded to 9-B plus sans could have used his TK on flowey so maybe sans can use his TK and magic on soulles beings?

Which is why its likely, we still don't know how it was created.

Sans knowing about the SAVE System and the Anomaly aren't really proof of sans self awareness about him being in a game, considering the SAVE system is just how the game world works and he is seeing the anomaly through the reports themselves. Sans is still stricken with the memory loss that mostly ever other character in the cast deals with once a RESET does its thing.

I mean even with the other supposed proof the dirty hacker ending isn't really solidified? its still just an error handling message and is something that can only be found through manipulating the game files, which isn't a feature that the game intended.

Ye sure these are fine, agree with everything expect intagible stuff being removed

 

[ShionAH]

idk maybe

Fine with everything here although I disagree with removing 4th Wall Awareness. Even if it was only brief, I'm pretty sure looking at the camera to pose (especially when it zooms in on you) would be enough to say that's breaking the 4th wall.

Ditto

Do all of you still agree with intagibility removal?

 

[Roachman40]

I still disagree with this plus flowey might be getting downgraded to 9-B plus sans could have used his TK on flowey so maybe sans can use his TK and magic on soulles beings?

I mean all the times we have seen sans use TK it has been through him manipulating the SOUL, we dont have any proof of sans using TK on soulless beings from what I remember.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sans' magic would scale to Flowey's dura once the ******* CRT for his profile stats is done

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Do all of you still agree with intagibility removal?

Personally, yes. But I can wait to see what the others think.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Agree with this. Still think minor 4th wall breaking is good enough for that.