Sans's soul Lifting strenght

[XxZetsuxX]

This is pretty simple

In undertale, Monster attack directly the soul of the opponent, Which is showned in all fights

Sans in his battle can use Telekenesis which basically picks up the Soul instead of the physical body of the opponent



In 7:50 and the other times he slams them in the box

Based on this, I think it's safe if we add something along these lines for Sans

"Unknown physically, Class 10 with Magic (Comparable to his brother Papyrus, who can move and control giant bones), Can Possibly Ignore Lifting strenght with SOUL Telekenesis (Lifts the Soul of the opponent instead of the Physical Body)"



ADM Votes (2) - Armorchompy (Disagrees), Maverick_Zero_X (Disagrees)

Normal votes (6) - ShionAH (Neutral), omegabronic, King_Dom470, DeltaStriker22 (Neutral), Adem_Warlock69, BasedNecoScaler69

Disagrees (2) - StrymULTRA, Serlock_Holmes,

 

[ShionAH]

Bro is cooking

I tried this but it was rejected, so lets see how this goes

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I hope it turns out well

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I disagree as we have no reason to believe that one. The soul is one with the physical body and as I don't know about him being capable of just lifting the soul alone while the physical body fights through it.

 

[King_Dom470]

Kinda thought this was already a thing.

But if magic attacks can bypass conventional durability via targeting specially the soul logically it makes sense to be the same for other physical stats like lifting strength

 

[ShionAH]

The soul is one with the physical body

What??

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I disagree as we have no reason to believe that one. The soul is one with the physical body and as I don't know about him being capable of just lifting the soul alone while the physical body fights through it.

Flowey says the Soul is the culmination of our being, All attacks in the undertale are literally Soul based including Sans Telekenesis

 

[omegabronic]

I disagree as we have no reason to believe that one. The soul is one with the physical body

the sould definitely isn't one with the physical body

and as I don't know about him being capable of just lifting the soul alone while the physical body fights through it.

He moves the soul = body also moves

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

What??

Sans is lifting the soul. A character is using wings, energy, gravity or whatever ***** he uses to stay down. Why are we assuming Sans can overcome that? Based on what.

He moves the soul = body also moves

It's in the end just applying a vector. Prove that vector is literally infinite. That's what you are proposing.

 

[ShionAH]

Sans is lifting the soul. A character is using wings, energy, gravity or whatever ***** he uses to stay down. Why are we assuming Sans can overcome that? Based on what.

If the A character has wings on their soul then they can overcome Sans. Sans does not hold their body down, he holds their soul

 

[StrymULTRA]

I disagree because arguing this is literally arguing that the characters stare to a literal battle box during the fights, when it was disproved with things like Mettaton, Undyne, Photoshop Flowey/Asriel, Tsunderplane, Vegetoid and Asgore.

The battle box is just a thing to show how Frisk moves during the fight around the bullets, but more than once it was proven that's not a literal thing and multiple situations wouldn't make sense if it is.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

If the A character has wings on their soul then they can overcome Sans. Sans does not hold their body down, he holds their soul

Good the body presses down. Why should I take that the soul tk overpowers the body?

 

[omegabronic]

It's in the end just applying a vector. Prove that vector is literally infinite. That's what you are proposing.

Infinite....?

 

[King_Dom470]

Sans is lifting the soul. A character is using wings, energy, gravity or whatever ***** he uses to stay down. Why are we assuming Sans can overcome that? Based on what.

Same way durability negation works. Hes targeting someones soul so unless they have a resistance to soul manip then their physical lifting strength should mean very little

 

[omegabronic]

I disagree because arguing this is literally arguing that the characters stare to a literal battle box during the fights, when it was disproved with things like Mettaton, Undyne, Photoshop Flowey/Asriel, Tsunderplane, Vegetoid and Asgore.

The battle box is just a thing to show how Frisk moves during the fight around the bullets, but more than once it was proven that's not a literal thing and multiple situations wouldn't make sense if it is.

Well, the argument is using sans moving the soul and not the body, i don't think that it is using the battle box at all

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Same way durability negation works. Hes targeting someones soul so unless they have a resistance to soul manip then their physical lifting strength should mean very little

Durability negation plays no role here. He is lifting someone up whether it's through the soul doesn't matter. He is still lifting up someone which requires force to be applied. Prove he can do that. That he can lift literally infinite loads with his soul tk.

Infinite....?

You are saying that you are ignoring physical propulsion in any way in favour of the soul. That has no limit so it's quite literally suggesting at holding an infinitely stronger character.

 

[ShionAH]

I disagree because arguing this is literally arguing that the characters stare to a literal battle box during the fights, when it was disproved with things like Mettaton, Undyne, Photoshop Flowey/Asriel, Tsunderplane, Vegetoid and Asgore.

The battle box is just a thing to show how Frisk moves during the fight around the bullets, but more than once it was proven that's not a literal thing and multiple situations wouldn't make sense if it is.

I dont think the CRT is saying battle box exists, I think they are saying since sans uses TK on the soul it will ignore LS just like how Sans attacks ignore durability because he attacks the soul

 

[omegabronic]

Durability negation plays no role here. He is lifting someone up whether it's through the soul doesn't matter. He is still lifting up someone which requires force to be applied. Prove he can do that. That he can lift literally infinite loads with his soul tk.

He wouldn't be lifting the part with weight

 

[King_Dom470]

Durability negation plays no role here. He is lifting someone up whether it's through the soul doesn't matter. He is still lifting up someone which requires force to be applied. Prove he can do that. That he can lift literally infinite loads with his soul tk.

I'm using durability negation as an example. Sans' magic ignores physical stats like durability through the use of his magic and targeting the soul why would physical lifting strength play any role in overpowering tk that targets your soul?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

He wouldn't be lifting the part with weight

Because? He is literally lifting someone up. The way doesn't matter.

I'm using durability negation as an example. Sans' magic ignores physical stats like durability through the use of his magic and targeting the soul why would physical lifting strength play any role in overpowering tk that targets your soul?

Oh yes let's give infinite tk to someone because he can nullify defense. Brilliant response.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, the argument is using sans moving the soul and not the body, i don't think that it is using the battle box at all

The thing is that the Soul IS inside the body, is not like Sans is ripping it off from Chara and then slams it.

I listed multiple examples on why the "soul moving in the box" is actually just a way to display the body moving around the danmaku, so why can't it just be a way to display sans using normal TK on Chara too?

 

[omegabronic]

You are saying that you are ignoring physical propulsion in any way in favour of the soul. That has no limit so it's quite literally suggesting at holding an infinitely stronger character.

He wouldn't be able to affect highe dimensional characters, so it does have limits

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Because? He is literally lifting someone up. The way doesn't matter.

If the person can't control their soul how would they resist SOUL telekenesis

The pressure will be applied to the soul while the physical body won't play a part in anything

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

He wouldn't be able to affect highe dimensional characters, so it does have limits

Yeah good luck passing that shit. It's ridiculous to even entertain it without proof.

If the person can't control their soul how would they resist SOUL telekenesis

The pressure will be applied to the soul while the physical body won't play a part in anything

Because it doesn't only affect the soul. It also lifts up the body. Prove that this lifting can overpower the downward force of beings far beyond what Sans was shown affecting.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Yeah good luck passing that shit. It's ridiculous to even entertain it without proof.

I'm not saying it works on higher dimensional beings btw

 

[ShionAH]

The thing is that the Soul IS inside the body, is not like Sans is ripping it off from Chara and then slams it.

I think naturally when the soul moves the body will also move it, since otherwise the character will lose their soul

I think this should only be a possibly rating in my opinion.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I disagree with this and it's honestly ridiculous.

 

[omegabronic]

The thing is that the Soul IS inside the body, is not like Sans is ripping it off from Chara and then slams it.

I listed multiple examples on why the "soul moving in the box" is actually just a way to display the body moving around the danmaku, so why can't it just be a way to display sans using normal TK on Chara too?

I mean, if we accept that monsters are attacking the soul in the box are they attacking the soul, then by all means sans using TK on the soul would also be him using TK on the soul, like, the box being a representation of frisk moving doesn't negate the argument that the monster affecting the soul, since they make note that soul is the thing being attacked

Also, how do we treat sans' battle weird stuff with the box? With frisk needing to moving the thing to attack him?

 

[King_Dom470]

Yeah good luck passing that shit. It's ridiculous to even entertain it without proof.

Theres very clear proof that sans' magic targets the soul specifically thereby ignoring a persons physical stats. Theres literally no reason why he shouldn’t be capable of doing the same to other physical stats. Sans is lifting Chara by their soul not by physical means

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Theres very clear proof that sans' magic targets the soul specifically thereby ignoring a persons physical stats. Theres literally no reason why he shouldn’t be capable of doing the same to other physical stats. Sans is lifting Chara by their soul not by physical means

Are you proposing he can lift a character then that is applying an infinite amount of Downward force?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

@omegabronic, @ShionAH, @King_Dom470 Can i put you guys on agree?

 

[King_Dom470]

@omegabronic, @ShionAH, @King_Dom470 Can i put you guys on agree?

yuh

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Done

 

[StrymULTRA]

I think naturally when the soul moves the body will also move it, since otherwise the character will lose their soul

???????????????

No? You're saying like the SOUL controls the body when nothing really says that. The body simply moves and so does the SOUL given it's inside of it.

I mean, if we accept that monsters are attacking the soul in the box are they attacking the soul, then by all means sans using TK on the soul would also be him using TK on the soul, like, the box being a representation of frisk moving doesn't negate the argument that the monster affecting the soul, since they make note that soul is the thing being attacked

You misremember that in UT the attacks affect both the soul and body, as Flowey can still be damaged and killed from those attacks despite being soulless.

Plus I think the SOUL modes are just a way to display how Frisk gets generally affected from this, examples are the Purple SOUL which shows that Frisk is simply trapped in webs, the Yellow that Frisk is using the phone to shoot bullets, so what exactly says that Blue is not just Frisk being attacked from TK?

 

[King_Dom470]

Are you proposing he can lift a character then that is applying an infinite amount of Downward force?

No? Again why should a physical stat do anything against a dude who literally only attacks your soul?

 

[ShionAH]

Are you proposing he can lift a character then that is applying an infinite amount of Downward force?

If they cannot stop their soul from moving. Yes.

 

[ShionAH]

The body simply moves and so does the SOUL given it's inside of it.

The battles make it seem like the SOUL moves while the body follows

 

[StrymULTRA]

The battles make it seem like the SOUL moves while the body follows

Which is absolutely an assumption, given that Photoshop Flowey definitely does not move when his SOULs do.

It's nowhere stated what you're saying tbf.

 

[ShionAH]

Photoshop Flowey definitely does not move when his SOULs do.

His main soul does not move

"It's nowhere stated what you're saying tbf."

True. Thats why I think this is a possibility but I am not sure if it should be added. I am neutral.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

His main soul does not move

"It's nowhere stated what you're saying tbf."

True. Thats why I think this is a possibility but I am not sure if it should be added. I am neutral.

Should i make it as possibly and instead of full negation?