Equal Stats Tournament 2022: Sanji (One Piece ) vs Vegeta (Dragon Ball)

[SemiRaedi]

From what I'm seeing it looks like Saiyan/Namek saga Vegeta would have a better chance then restricted UE Vegeta since at least Saiyan/Namek saga Vegeta would blow up the planet or use dirty fireworks (not saying he wins but he has those as wincons).

 

[Thelastmlg]

Ultra Ego Vegeta, apparently.
I'm sorry, but Ultra Ego probably outlasts, and eventually overpowers Sanji due to his reactive power level, and reactive evolution. Vegeta also has far more reliable hax to deal with Sanji from a distance, like Ki Attacks with explosions far too wide for Sanji to dodge it in a short burst. Vegeta is a better Martial Artist than Sanji is, so Sanji wouldn't really do much in a hand-to-hand combat.

Also, Hakai.

Sorry, but I just don't see how Sanji even wins against Ultra Ego Vegeta, so I'll vote for Vegeta.

Reactive evolution, where?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I come back, and this shit has already reached 5 pages.

Wtf happened?

 

[DemonicDude]

I come back, and this shit has already reached 5 pages.

Wtf happened?

War ! Chaos !
so much chaos that even Shadows' chaos emeralds fails in comparison to cause the destruction that we have witnessed, Tatsumi is shivering in fear.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Demonic! Quick! While your here nerf Sanji to all hell!

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Damn.

Good thing I was busy yesterday.

Sanji FRA, Lordgin... I'm glad you're back

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Vegeta and Goku have never overpowered I.R that's 6x to 8x above baseline.

Vegeta and Goku have never unlocked 2 forms of Analytical Prediction.

Vegeta and Goku have never kept up with blatantly FTE opponents.

Vegeta and Goku have never created martial arts on the spot.

I realized you said this, this isn't true, not all of it.
Goku and vegeta have both analytical prediction and precognition at the same time, as well as keep up with granolah who has his own analytical prediction which can predict teleportation.
Goku and vegeta have actually kept up with FTE opponents, they do that every single time someone uses the afterimage, or when how tienshinhan's 3 eyes were barely able to keep up with Goku's speed yet he still equally fought him and so did Goku do vice versa. Or when tien was blitzing Goku yet Goku still keeping up with his senses, in fact, Gohan was unable to keep up with yamcha and saibaman using only his eyes, but piccolo told him that he needs to sense their ki to be able to see them proving that db characters are actually able to keep up with opponents FTE to them. Even a recent example is Goku and vegeta's fight with granolah where they were fighting him equally in SSB/SSBE respectively despite being much slower and weaker.
Goku has actually made up martial arts on the spot, he literally came up with a technique on the spot in his fight with nam, as well as created a completely new martial arts style called crazy fist after roshi used his drunken fist on him, he also copied and improved a myriad of martial art techniques including but not limited to the kamehameha and it's variants, the after image and it's bluff version, the taiyoken, the sokidan (and mixed it with kamehameha), and vegeta's technqiues are all self taught and his weakest, the galik gun, rivals the kamehameha.

It's fine I don't expect you to know everything now. Sanji's is a high tier, at best Goku's at the current point in time would be around Mid tier Kenbunshoku usage.

And I wouldn't suggest doing that quite yet, take some time to heal up mate. The CRT can wait, your health should genuinely come first.

It is how that works, the core is the hottest part and would expand outwards in an omnidirectional blast. Lightning is that hot because air is a poor conductor of heat, so it gets extremely hot when the electricity (lightning) passes through it.

Sanji scales above something that's hotter than lightning passively and can kick up that temperature with Ifrit. Chain scaling doesn't increase the temperature by a known amount. Sanji's fire is hotter than what DB characters have shown to tank.

Thank you man, really. I'm a lot better now. I can write with two hands.
But doesn't sanji also upscale unquantifiably he just >>> lightning resistance due to burning people who resist it, same with DB characters.

Can you send some Goku precog feats?

Yes, yes it does. Unless you have any higher Vegeta resistance feats, than Sanji's is higher. He is literally able to make plasma/electricity from the pure intensity of his flames.

No he doesn't. Vegeta's attacks can get blocked by haki.

Yes he does. Here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and those are feats that were on the top of my head.

Sure. Predicts super skilled assassin and martial artist moves in time stop.
And this is precognition, reading an opponents intentions to know their next move.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Galick Gun > Kamehameha


Cope

 

[Kachon123]

Sure. Predicts super skilled assassin and martial artist moves in time stop.
And this is precognition, reading an opponents intentions to know their next move.

The scans with hit is just analytical prediction. Precog is literally seeing in the future. Goku didn't do that in the feat you sent.

As for the second one, that extrasensory perception and/or information analysis. Goku sensed his ki (extrasensory), then sensed that it had no animosity (information analysis)

 

[Kachon123]

Galick Gun > Kamehameha


Cope

No one asked bruh...

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The scans with hit is just analytical prediction. Precog is literally seeing in the future. Goku didn't do that in the feat you sent.

As for the second one, that extrasensory perception and/or information analysis. Goku sensed his ki (extrasensory), then sensed that it had no animosity (information analysis)

That's true, I didn't say it was precognition.
The second feat is him actually knowing the future by reading his opponents intent, this is how low tier kenbunshoku users get precognition.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

No one asked bruh...

Wasn't talking to you in the first place, was talking to fluffy

 

[TauanVictor]

Sanji FRA.

 

[LordGinSama]

realized you said this, this isn't true, not all of it.
Goku and vegeta have both analytical prediction and precognition at the same time, as well as keep up with granolah who has his own analytical prediction which can predict teleportation.

No they don't Precognition and Analytical Prediction are two very different subsets. Goku doesn't predict the future via means of future sight, mind reading or any other means that would grant actual Precognition. They have Analytical Prediction based on intent sensing, amongst natural Sayian ability to sense Ki and vibrations in the air.

And that's nice and all but Sanji can keep up with Zoro who has 2 forms of Analytical Prediction, that being mental visionaries and Goken based Prediction. And that's Pre-Timeskip Zoro, Post Time-Skip has 3 forms with Kenbunshoku Haki based Prediction. If we're talking about sheer Analytical Prediction then Zoro's is definitely a lot more potent and versatile. Also Predicting Teleportation isn't all that impressive, unless they erase their presence then anyone with a basic form or Analytical Prediction can predict such.

Goku and vegeta have actually kept up with FTE opponents, they do that every single time someone uses the afterimage,

Scans for their opponents being faster than them? Because I genuinely don't remember Goku and Vegeta ever facing against opponents who could blitz them consistently without the aid of short term Boosts.


Anyway this is all outdone by Zoro who can master his Goken Prediction with his first use of the ability, and with heavy blood loss, which would interfere with a lot of his senses due to how blood loss works.

or when how tienshinhan's 3 eyes were barely able to keep up with Goku's speed yet he still equally fought him

Tien hardly fought Goku seriously, Goku was literally trolling him during the Tournament whenever he got Semi serious.

and so did Goku do vice versa. Or when tien was blitzing Goku yet Goku still keeping up with his senses,

Because Goku was always the faster of the two? He just didn't bother using his full speed at the start, hence why Tien needed to use the Solar Flare and Goku just literally went "lol" and Blitzed it. Tien at no point actually "Blitzed" Goku in a legitimate sense since Goku was holding back.

in fact, Gohan was unable to keep up with yamcha and saibaman using only his eyes, but piccolo told him that he needs to sense their ki to be able to see them proving that db characters are actually able to keep up with opponents FTE to them

By sensing, and using a Gohan who's essentially fodder as a child isn't exactly what I'd call evidence of every DB character being able to see past blitzing. Or else Vegeta wouldn't have any issues with Goku rocking his shit mid sentence with the Kaio-ken amps.

But doesn't sanji also upscale unquantifiably he just >>> lightning resistance due to burning people who resist it, same with DB characters.

Sanji has the longer chain scaling amongst having the better feats to start with. Vegeta isn't resisting, and heat resistance doesn't increase with greater Ki so I'm not even sure how this argument came about. Ki doesn't provide further resistance to elements.

Goku has actually made up martial arts on the spot, he literally came up with a technique on the spot in his fight with nam,

Creating a technique isn't the same as creating as new Martial Arts.

as well as created a completely new martial arts style called crazy fist after roshi used his drunken fist on him,

You mean the fodder style that he doesn't even use anymore and the same style that has a shit ton of blatant telegraphing?

he also copied and improved a myriad of martial art techniques including but not limited to the kamehameha

The Kamehameha is not a Martial Arts. It's a blast of energy that anyone can learn, its not something that utilizes Hand to Hand combat.

and it's variants, the after image and it's bluff version, the taiyoken, the sokidan (and mixed it with kamehameha), and vegeta's technqiues are all self taught and his weakest, the galik gun, rivals the kamehameha.

Which again, are mostly energy based techniques. That isn't a Martial arts feat, might be good for Goku's Accelerated Development but ultimately isn't good for Hand to hand scaling.



Also you do realize Vegeta can't even utilize his Analytical Prediction here? DB Analytical Prediction works by sensing intent within one's Ki, and Sanji does not have Ki. Haki and Ki cannot be equalized so that cripples Vegeta's AP.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

DB Analytical Prediction works by sensing intent within one's Ki, and Sanji does not have Ki. Haki and Ki cannot be equalized so that cripples Vegeta's AP.

HAHAHAHAHAH! AHA... AHA... AH...

No, Sanji does have Ki, Ki is life force of any form of life in DB, and in general based on Chinese/Japanese Beliefs. Verse Equalization absolutely applies, it DOESN'T need to equalize Haki to Ki for that to be the case.

 

[Rikimarox2]

No, Sanji does have Ki, Ki is life force of any form of life in DB, and in general based on Chinese/Japanese Beliefs. Verse Equalization absolutely applies, it DOESN'T need to equalize Haki to Ki for that to be the case.

Ah so that's how we treat Chi/Ki stuff here?

Damn, that buffs quite a bit of profiles I have made, then.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Ah so that's how we treat Chi/Ki stuff here?

Damn, that buffs quite a bit of profiles I have made, then.

That only applies to Vs Matches, I believe.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Still quite a buff when it comes to VS battles :3

 

[LordGinSama]

HAHAHAHAHAH! AHA... AHA... AH...

Nice job laughing as if your correct despite being wrong as ****.

No, Sanji does have Ki, Ki is life force of any form of life in DB, and in general based on Chinese/Japanese Beliefs. Verse Equalization absolutely applies, it DOESN'T need to equalize Haki to Ki for that to be the case.

Sanji absolutely does not have Ki, this is your complete and total headcanon. Your really out here trying to apply another ******* enegry group to one that's already existent and entirely different.

It being based upon Chinese / Japanese beliefs (And I seriously doubt you even know anything about either belief with all due respect.) is irrelevant to the discussion here. Refer to our Haki page, unless it's similar to Haki, and it isn't then it cannot be equalized to Haki.



Nice try though.

 

[LordGinSama]

Ah so that's how we treat Chi/Ki stuff here?

Damn, that buffs quite a bit of profiles I have made, then.

Nope he's wrong as could be there.

 

[LordGinSama]

The energies need to be similar in order for both combatants to posses the same energy.


Ki and Haki work entirely different from one another.


It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess. However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, shown throughout its use or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization.
Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.


So once again this is a direct result of some user who thinks they know what they're talking about despite them being absolutely clueless in actuality.


Shit also got brought up here. Sanji would have Ki if Haki were to be a Life-Force or if there were a Life-Force energy system in One Piece but there isn't. You can die from overusing Ki, overusing Haki won't kill you.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.


So once again this is a direct result of some user who thinks they know what they're talking about despite them being absolutely clueless in actuality.


Shit also got brought up here. Sanji would have Ki if Haki were to be a Life-Force or if there were a Life-Force energy system in One Piece but there isn't. You can die from overusing Ki, overusing Haki won't kill you.

It doesn't have to be Life-Force, it just has to be energy.

Working differently is not an argument, we can still equalize it to some extent, sensing their energy, which Haki IS, is perfectly reasonable.
Chakra and Ki are equalized literally all the ******* time despite working differently.

Now stop clowning around, and just wait until grace is over.

 

[LordGinSama]

It doesn't have to be Life-Force, it just has to be energy.

Similar energies. Ki is a life force, Haki is not.

Working differently is not an argument, we can still equalize it to some extent, sensing their energy, which Haki IS, is perfectly reasonable.
Chakra and Ki ar

Working differently is absolutely an argument. That's literally the entire point of Verse Equalization, they need to be similar in order for them to crossover. The abundant amount of mental gymnastics being done by you here is genuinely mind boggling.

e equalized literally all the ******* time despite working differently.

No, not at all. The pages exist for a ******* reason genius.

Now stop clowning around, and just wait until grace is over.

I wouldn't suggest telling people to stop clowning around whenever you yourself are the entire ******* circus mate.


And adding 2 scans together from 2 different series without giving context ain't gonna cut it. Haki is not a Chi group, Ki on the other hand is. Haki and Ki are fundamentally different.

Haki is not a universal enegry system, Ki is. Ki is not based upon the user's Willpower, Haki is. Ki produces enegry, Haki doesn't. Ki can allow you to fly, Haki doesn't. Overusing Ki will kill you, Haki doesn't. Again this is you playing a game of mental gymnastics.

Now why don't you practice what you preach and I quote. "Now stop clowning around, and just wait until grace is over." because you're wrong and everyone can see that here.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Chi and Haki isn't even close in being the same... They just have a similar reference for them

I think that's how you describe it...

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Similar energies. Ki is a life force, Haki is not.

Confirmation Bias taken out of nowhere.
Ki includes Life-Force, sure, but it's pure latent energy, spiritual and physical energy.

Haki is spiritual energy, as literally explained by Rayleigh.

Working differently is absolutely an argument. + some weird denial tangent.

Ooooo, who's gonna tell him?
Having similarities is more than enough to a slight equalization.

I wouldn't suggest telling people to stop clowning around whenever you yourself are the entire ******* circus mate.

And adding 2 scans together from 2 different series without giving context ain't gonna cut it.

You think you're really smart, huh?
"Oh, it's the context!! I won't elaborate further though "

Nope, either elaborate or keep quiet. Gohan literally explains that Ki is literally just energy, and latent power. Which applies for both physical and spiritual energy, as ghosts can use Chi as well.

Haki is not a Chi group, Ki on the other hand is. Haki and Ki are fundamentally different.

They are not. Haki is spirital energy, which Ki includes. Ki users can sense the presence of Haki users. The equalization I am suggesting stops literally there.

Haki is not a universal enegry system, Ki is.

They don't have to be.

Ki is not based upon the user's Willpower, Haki is.

They don't have to be based on the same thing.

Ki produces enegry, Haki doesn't.

They don't have to produce the same thing. Haki is a form of energy.

Ki can allow you to fly, Haki doesn't.

LMFAO, Since when the energies need to ******* allow the same techniques in order to be equalized? What kind of stupidity is that?

Overusing Ki will kill you, Haki doesn't.

Irrelevant. It doesn't have to have the same consequences on the user. It just has to be a form of energy. And you can run out of Haki.

Again this is you playing a game of mental gymnastics.

"WELL, HAKI DOESN'T ALLOW YOU TO FLY, SO NO EQUALIZATION"

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Chi and Haki isn't even close in being the same... They just have a similar reference for them

I think that's how you describe it...

I am not trying to claim they are the same.

I am trying to say:

"Ki sensing detects spiritual energy... Haki is spiritual energy... Therefore Ki Sensing works with Haki users."
That's literally it.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So because they are a spiritual energy they can get equalized?

So that means all spiritual energy gets verse equalized

 

[GodlyCharmander]

So because they are a spiritual energy they can get equalized?

So that means all spiritual energy gets verse equalized

I am not suggesting total equalization, Gin literally distorted that so it can fit his narrative. I am just countering the man saying Ki Detection would be useless against Haki Users, which is not the case.

 

[Rikimarox2]

So because they are a spiritual energy they can get equalized?

So that means all spiritual energy gets verse equalized

Iirc I did make a qna thread for this, and I believe that yes, if one energy is spiritual energy, while the other is spiritual and physical energy, then they get equalized.

I could be mistaken, but it was something along that line.

 

[TauanVictor]

How is this still happening and not Grace? Sanji has 14 votes left, just go to the next fight lol.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I am not suggesting total equalization, Gin literally distorted that so it can fit his narrative. I am just countering the man saying Ki Detection would be useless against Haki Users, which is not the case.

Depends on how that ki detection works...

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Depends on how that ki detection works...

Requirements: Have any form of physical, mental or spiritual energy.

Then they can sense your presence, and read your power level.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

How is this still happening and not Grace? Sanji has 14 votes left, just go to the next fight lol.

It is Grace, but ego's gotta ego.

EDIT: "Oh well-" I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU, VEGETA, YOU LOST!

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Iirc I did make a qna thread for this, and I believe that yes, if one energy is spiritual energy, while the other is spiritual and physical energy, then they get equalized.

I could be mistaken, but it was something along that line.

They said if both were life force... Which haki isn't btw.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Requirements: Have any form of physical, mental or spiritual energy.

Then they can sense your presence, and read your power level.

So even stands? From jojo

 

[GodlyCharmander]

So even stands? From jojo

Probably. We'd have to discuss that in a JoJo vs DB match, but I believe it was equalized before.

Goku blocking SP's Punch by sensing him coming would likely be a thing.

 

[LordGinSama]

I ain't even gotta reply to the nonsense above but since I enjoy arguing with dumbass's I'll entertain it.

Confirmation Bias taken out of nowhere.
Ki includes Life-Force, sure, but it's pure latent energy, spiritual and physical energy.

Haki is spiritual energy, as literally explained by Rayleigh.

Haki is not spiritual, anyone who's familiar with the series knows what the term "spirit" refers to Will as how that's how it's translated from Japanese.


There's a reason why soul Manipulation ain't accepted for Haki. So once again, you fail to grasp the context and continue to make yourself look ignorant.

Ooooo, who's gonna tell him?

God's arguments weren't even accepted so once again, this is you failing to understand obviously clear context.

Having similarities is more than enough to a slight equalization.

No actually it isn't. There is no equalization if there's no similarities between said groups, and Haki isn't even an energy nor is it spiritual. It's stemmed from one's own will power, not the soul.

I find it hilarious that's it's 2022 and your still out here using Filthy Frank memes unironically like your 12. Lmao even George thinks that shit is cringe.


The amount of irony in an attempt to be witty here is just desperate.

You think you're really smart, huh?
"Oh, it's the context!! I won't elaborate further though "

Smater than you? For damn sure. You're literally the same clown who thinks Haki is spiritual energy, despite spiritual referring to Will power. Doesn't take a lot to look up previous CRT's about Haki to see how spiritual energy got debunked.

Nope, either elaborate or keep quiet. Gohan literally explains that Ki is literally just energy, and latent power. Which applies for both physical and spiritual energy, as ghosts can use Chi as well.

No I don't think i will actually. And that just makes your argument collapse on itself, Haki isn't spiritual its based on will. In Japanese the term spirit often is in reference to the term will. So once again, your ignorance is showing no limit.

They are not. Haki is spirital energy, which Ki includes. Ki users can sense the presence of Haki users. The equalization I am suggesting stops literally there.

No it isn't. Show me Haki being accepted as Soul Manipulation anywhere here because that's been debunked countless amounts of times. Spiritual energy is in reference to enegry stemmed from Willpower, not in the literal sense.

They don't have to be.

They absolutely do.

They don't have to be based on the same thing.

They do, that's like me equalizing Magic in Black Clover to Reiatsu or me saying Deku can resist RC despite the two energy groups being very different from one another.

They don't have to produce the same thing. Haki is a form of energy.

Haki is not a form of enegry, Haki is a power stemmed from your own will power. There's no enegry involved in Haki's mechanics.

LMFAO, Since when the energies need to ******* allow the same techniques in order to be equalized? What kind of stupidity is that?

I never said they need to follow the same techniques? What I'm talking about is how they're fundamentally different from mechanics extending to the techniques and abilities they can grant. So you can kindly take your dog shit reading comprehension out of here.

Irrelevant. It doesn't have to have the same consequences on the user. It just has to be a form of energy. And you can run out of Haki.

It's not irrelevant in the slightest lmao, you're just an ignorant ass user who's attempting to use their own headcanon over wiki standards, and I never said you can't run out of Haki either. I said running out of Haki doesn't kill you, using too much Ki will kill the user showing how different they are smart one.

"WELL, HAKI DOESN'T ALLOW YOU TO FLY, SO NO EQUALIZATION"

Ah yes an attempt to be condescending. Very funny, btw I suggest working on your humor a tad bit since it's on the level of a edgy ass 9th grader who spends all their time on 4chan and never had a relationship.

Go outside and touch some grass kiddo.

 

[LordGinSama]

I am not suggesting total equalization, Gin literally distorted that so it can fit his narrative. I am just countering the man saying Ki Detection would be useless against Haki Users, which is not the case.

I didn't distort shit, you donkey. The only one here doing that shit is you by saying Haki is ******* spiritual.


Do you see Haki having soul Manipulation or being referred to as "spiritual energy" in our literal Haki page? No? Then can it .

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Probably.

Don't think so... They are too different and have barley any similaritys besides being some type of energy.

Otherwise nearly everything gets verse equalized